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U.S. Visa Limits Hit Indian Workers
Washington Post ^ | April 6 2009 | Emily Wax

Posted on 04/06/2009 3:59:02 AM PDT by angkor

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To: Joe Boucher

>>>>> I’d rather aids sufferers from Haiti be allowed in as opposed to say anyone with anything to contribute. <<<<

That’s ridiculous.


51 posted on 04/06/2009 12:02:50 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Wpin

>>>> I would agree with you that large companies in tandem with the federal government abuse the system. But, you could say that about anything... <<<<<<<

But that’s what we’re talking about: an H1B system that has been flagrantly and greatly abused.


52 posted on 04/06/2009 12:06:00 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Wpin

>>>>> And this is a bad thing why??? <<<<<<

First, it’s illegal to replace workers at lower pay using the H1B visa system.

Second, it’s illegal to replace American workers with Indian workers using the H1B system.

Third, it’s illegal to make false compensation statements on the L1 (H1B) visa declarations.

Fourth, it’s ugly and unethical.

Aside from that it’s just peachy and A-OK.


53 posted on 04/06/2009 12:10:19 PM PDT by angkor
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To: OpeEdMunkey; cubsfanconswoman

But you weren’t *sub-Human* or *abusive* were you? LOL!

cubsfanconswoman, I don’t have a lot of use for *hit and run* posters. If you can’t respond nicely then STFU.


54 posted on 04/06/2009 12:18:07 PM PDT by wolfcreek (There is no 2 party system only arrogant Pols and their handlers)
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To: freedumb2003

Okay - this is just a DUMB and quite frankly racist statement (for once the race card SHOULD be played.) I’ve worked with HUNDREDS of Indian folks over the last 30 years in the computer design field. Some of the brightest folks I’ve ever met are Indian.

I’ve know some duds too - just like I’ve known American born duds.

I can safely say one of my two top bosses was an Indian, who is still a very good friend today. He is also VERY well known in my field having written some of the first text-books within a particular area.

Further, some of the most innovative companies in Silicon Valley have been started by people from India who have been trained both here and there, i.e. undergrad in India, graduate work here.

One good example is Magma - it’s number 3 in the EDA business, and has continually had more innovative products when compared to the number 1 and number 2 competitors.

Does this justify my position adequately???


55 posted on 04/06/2009 12:29:02 PM PDT by fremont_steve (Milpitas - a great place to be FROM!)
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To: angkor

Maybe it is illegal, but I cannot seem to get on FTE
at MS yet the entry level H1B’s seen to be able to do so.
I am only good enough for an a- yearly contract with a
mandatory 100 day break. And being a veteran doesn’t seen
to be worth anything unless I wanted to be a postman.


56 posted on 04/06/2009 1:01:02 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

IBM Offers To Move Laid Off Workers To India
Information Week | Feb. 2, 2009 | Paul McDougall
Posted on 02/03/2009 9:21:51 AM PST by COUNTrecount
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2177476/posts

IBM Offers To Move Laid Off Workers To India [export yourself?]
Information Week | 2-3-9 | Paul McDougall
Posted on 02/04/2009 2:54:59 PM PST by ex-snook
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2178480/posts

IBM to laid-off: Want a job in India?
CNN | 2-5-2009 | Karina Frayter
Posted on 02/05/2009 5:37:48 PM PST by Westlander
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2179376/posts

WSJ: IBM Cutting More Jobs, Shifting Work to India
Fox News | 25 Mar 2009 | Matt Egan
Posted on 03/25/2009 1:24:59 PM PDT by BGHater
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2214623/posts


57 posted on 04/06/2009 1:01:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: fremont_steve

Thanks, Steve, from a Freeper of Indian heritage (born here).


58 posted on 04/06/2009 1:02:44 PM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: angkor

I guess I just believe in the American philosophy of individual freedom, sorry to have insulted your socialistic sensitivities...not


59 posted on 04/06/2009 1:10:30 PM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: angkor

But that’s what we’re talking about: an H1B system that has been flagrantly and greatly abused.

I don’t think it is to the point where one should simply discard it. It would be detrimental to our economy and well being. One should also remember that people who participate in this program either become citizens (and they typically are productive citizens) or they go back to their homes where they are great emissary’s for the US.


60 posted on 04/06/2009 1:12:42 PM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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IBM patent application diagrams method for offshoring employees
The Industry Standard | March 30, 2009
Posted on 03/30/2009 2:33:33 PM PDT by NCjim
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2218398/posts


61 posted on 04/06/2009 1:21:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: x_plus_one

Law is crashing at the moment.


62 posted on 04/06/2009 1:29:33 PM PDT by John Will
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To: rahbert

>>>> Maybe it is illegal, but I cannot seem to get on FTE
at MS yet the entry level H1B’s seen to be able to do so. <<<<

MS is the biggest pro-immigration lobbyist in Washington DC.

That’s a fact, not hyperbole. Check www.opensecrets.org.

And they’re NOT on Capitol Hill doing “advocacy” for Central American day laborers. They’re pushing for looser restrictions on Indian (and other) H1B tech labor.


63 posted on 04/06/2009 1:34:44 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

Right, but the preponderance of wealth of Indians in this country has nothing to do with H1B.


64 posted on 04/06/2009 1:36:10 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: fremont_steve; freedumb2003

>>>>> quite frankly racist statement (for once the race card SHOULD be played.) <<<<

No, it is not a racist statement but yours most certainly is.

And yes you are playing the race card in exactly the same manner that it’s always played.

Unless I missed something, freedumb2003 said nothing whatsoever about race. He doesn’t like Indian tech workers, check. He doesn’t want more Indian immigration, check. He thinks that Indian H1B tech workers are not good employees, check.

None of that has anything at all to do with race.


65 posted on 04/06/2009 1:39:54 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

“And the H1B visa program is greatly abused by employers largely to the benefit of Indian tech workers”

Heavy recruitment from Asia too.


66 posted on 04/06/2009 1:41:42 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: reaganaut1

>>>> Thanks, Steve, from a Freeper of Indian heritage (born here). <<<<<<

Since you raised the issue ....

What do you think of Indian entrepreneurs who abuse our H1B visa system and exploit Indian H1B tech workers?

What do you think of your fellow Americans being fired to replace them with Indian H1B workers, illegally and at low expense to the company?

You think this is A-OK?


67 posted on 04/06/2009 1:42:53 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Wpin

>>>>> I guess I just believe in the American philosophy of individual freedom, <<<<<<

Correction: you are thinking not of freedom but of open borders in America, an ideal shared by precisely zero other countries around the globe. Not one. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

My grandfather came to America as a toddler prior to 1900 and he had.....

....A VISA!!!!!

From at least the 1890’s, all immigrants to the U.S. have been required to have A VISA!

And all other countries around the world have strict employment controls which require immigrant labor to have A VISA.

Don’t play your bogus “freedom” and open borders card with me.

My wife is an immigrant!


68 posted on 04/06/2009 1:48:34 PM PDT by angkor
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To: ScottfromNJ

>>>> Heavy recruitment from Asia too. <<<<<

Sure, but in tech I’ve seen a lot more Indian workers than is justified by the job market.

“Are you seriously telling me you couldn’t find an American [network engineer, Java coder, C programmer, Cisco expert] so you had to hire an Indian?”


69 posted on 04/06/2009 1:53:42 PM PDT by angkor
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To: mbraynard

>>>>> Right, but the preponderance of wealth of Indians in this country has nothing to do with H1B. <<<<<

I’m sure that’s true.

But this thread is entitled “U.S. Visa Limits Hit Indian Workers” and is about H1B.

So your comments are really not pertinent.

You understand that, yes?


70 posted on 04/06/2009 1:56:32 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
No, my comments are pertinent given the general anti-Indian comments that have been made in this thread.

Are you capable of understanding this?

71 posted on 04/06/2009 3:03:42 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: angkor

What he said was that Indian coders are the worst. That is an all-inclusive statement. With that statement there is no possibility that a single good Indian coder could possibly exist. That is an absolute statement about anyone in that profession from the Indian sub-continent. He has tarred an entire country with a single brush.

Racist -

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

From my reading - his comments pretty much fall into this description.

By itself the statement is ludicrous. I’ve had personal experience that proves it so.

I can go on for an hour on the subject because I’ve worked at two separate consulting firms that were founded by Indians. They had very different backgrounds. The first company constantly abused the Visa system bringing people here to do work that Americans could/should do (not on H1B’s by the way...) The second company moved an occasional employee between the two countries for training, and then moved them back. The American side of the company was essentially static in it’s head count the 3 years I was there. They did ship work over to India, and due to the makeup of the company employees in India there were only certain projects we would ship over. This ALL had to do with training and experience levels of the team the company had managed to create and NOTHING to do with the raw ability of anyone there.

Most of the employees in the US were VERY capable, thus another reason we kept the tougher work in the US. Oh - did I mention they were mostly Indian. Like I said earlier - I have direct personal experience that the guy’s all-encompassing statement was factually in error.


72 posted on 04/06/2009 3:16:28 PM PDT by fremont_steve (Milpitas - a great place to be FROM!)
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To: angkor

Excuse me, I thought we were discussing H1B VISAS! I do not support illegal immigration. I do support legal immigration and having an H1B is a legal visa...

Maybe you are confused about the issue...but, I am glad your grandfather and wife came to America...bet you are also.

And, don’t feel bad...many, like you, do not understand freedom.


73 posted on 04/06/2009 3:16:55 PM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: freedumb2003
Can I talk about the QA work I once did on Indian code?

It's as though they thought they were being paid by tare weight.

Cheers!

74 posted on 04/06/2009 4:05:56 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: mbraynard

>>> Are you capable of understanding this? <<<

Very capable.

But this discussion is about India, Indians, and H1B labor.

To keep saying as you have been that “Indians in America are rich” is completely irrelevant.

So what’s your point?


75 posted on 04/06/2009 4:33:36 PM PDT by angkor
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To: RU88
Ask yourself why the Americans' last task before being laid off is to "train in" their replacements; and then ask why the rationale is that the Americans "aren't qualified".

Then go pour yourself a fifth of scotch...

Cheers!

76 posted on 04/06/2009 4:35:07 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: fremont_steve

>>>> I have direct personal experience that the guy’s all-encompassing statement was factually in error. <<<<<

Yes, I agree it was factually in error.

But you pulled the race card and effectively called him a racist when he made no such comment.

IMO he who pulls the race card owns it.


77 posted on 04/06/2009 4:37:59 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Wpin
>>>>> Maybe you are confused about the issue...but, I am glad your grandfather and wife came to America...bet you are also.
<<<<

Actually I was trying to address your covert and sissified predilection for open borders.

Look libertarian, if you think “freedom” equals open borders, just stand on your apple crate here in the town square and say it. Shout it!

Don't be a little girl and hide it under your transparently false cry of “freedom”. Just say you want open borders and be done with it.

>>>> And, don’t feel bad...many, like you, do not understand freedom. <<<<<

Yes, I don't understand. Explain “freedom” as it relates to visas and H1B.

78 posted on 04/06/2009 4:45:26 PM PDT by angkor
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To: mbraynard
I think the problem is (whether "diversity" or the "all Indians have an IQ of 300" syndrome began it) is that a few Indians gravitated to influential positions in tech industries and began hiring their countrymen like mad.

And (as I have seen repeatedly from experience) they share knowledge and finish each other's work to make sure they *all* look good, much more than Americans. And they "freeze out" those whom they perceive to be a threat.

The catch is, most of the Indians I have seen are good at *absorbing* information, but not at creative, independent thinking. So when you need to go outside the box, they begin to spin their wheels, and blow smoke.

E.g. the whole "capability maturity model" covers management's process for managing the project; it doesn't do anything about whether the code under the hood is any good, or manageable, or easily modified.

As far as managing, by the way, it is not only the lower labor cost, but the fact that all of the higher costs associated with the offshoring/outsourcing get divided among a large number of different accounting buckets:

--more managerial time giving instructions

--rework

--late nights/early mornings for trans-global phone meetings

--missed days caused by a problem arising after the other side of the Earth has gone to bed

--blind alleys where the requirements were not written *EXPLICITLY* and so someone just "took a guess" and never verified

etc. etc.

Cheers!

79 posted on 04/06/2009 5:01:10 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
???

Is this a Kurukshetra ping, or something?

Cheers!

80 posted on 04/06/2009 5:02:23 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: fremont_steve
No.

For every EDA, there's a Sun. (Sputter, sputter).

And for every "IQ of 300" Indian, there's a couple of Americans of equal talent who were edged aside; or went into another field.

Cheers!

81 posted on 04/06/2009 5:04:45 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: angkor
Would you understood better if I gave you a picture rather than using polysylabic words?

My point is that their wealth is due to their ability to assimilate into the American economy and culture, while the countervailing opinion here is that they don't, that they aren't creative, that they abuse fellow Indians with H1B visas, etc.

Go back and read my first post. Or fly a kite.

82 posted on 04/06/2009 5:15:04 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: grey_whiskers
You know what? All of those problems are common insourcing with American firms, too. Except, for many of these tasks, the American firms are 10x more expensive.

I've sourced to China, India, Eastern Europe, South America, France, and all over the US. Right now I am US exclusive except for some data entry-type tasks. The only heuristic is that there are no heuristics.

And even when I find myself wanting to come up with a generalization for a sex or a geography, like magic, someone comes along and proves me wrong.

83 posted on 04/06/2009 5:18:46 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: grey_whiskers

I’m afraid the EDA/Sun reference is lost on me. EDA - Electronic Design Automation. Sun certainly uses these products...but I don’t see the equivalence?

As for the bit about an Indian displacing an American. If you refer to jobs that have gone overseas. Sure - I won’t contest that occurs. If you are talking about the Indians who come here to work legally via one mechanism or another I don’t agree.

The problem with most of these arguments is that High Tech is mostly a meritocracy. People are paid what their talent demands.. Indian engineers working in the US are paid prevailing US wages.

Now if I’m an employer and I have two equally qualified applicants fresh out of school - one Indian and one a native born US citizen I’d pick the US citizen because in the long run he costs me less to employee. I don’t have to go through the green card process with him!

Further - most of these kids are coming here and taking post graduate degrees which were not filled by US applicants! The US doesn’t graduate that many native born engineers! With off-shoring becoming much more practical, the high tech jobs are disappearing as well. the lure of high paying jobs are going away, with less people choosing to go into engineer. (They are likely to become lawyers and run for congress instead..)

I hate to break this to you all, but this isn’t really caused by Government policy, but business making economic choices and the advent of cheap and efficient communications!

So - I don’t buy your bit about 1 for 2 displacement. I haven’t seen that in my career, and I’ve been in Silicon Valley as a working engineer for 25+ years now.


84 posted on 04/06/2009 5:58:51 PM PDT by fremont_steve (Milpitas - a great place to be FROM!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I may not be repling to the correct poster. Apologies if not.

There is a conv store not far from my home. I piss the guy off all the time. He has so many outdated food products, I walk thru the store and comment on them.

To be honest, tghe only reason I do this, he is always on the phone, talking some babbling languag. I gave him the benefit. I walked in there a week ago and there was an older Indian guy behind the counter. He and the owner were babbeling when I was trying to tell them what I wanted.

I got so pi$$ed and yelled...hello??? You are in America. Speak the Freaking English or the hell with you. How rude are you?

I stopped in today and the owner put down his damn phone and spoke to me... in English.

I could care less if I offended him.


85 posted on 04/06/2009 6:08:30 PM PDT by Shyla
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To: grey_whiskers
Can I talk about the QA work I once did on Indian code?

It's as though they thought they were being paid by tare weight.

OMG g/w -- that is one of the funniest lines I have ever read on FR. I am literally LOL (no one literally LsOTFLOL)!!

Two snaps in a circle and a

If Left(Account_code,1)="1" then
(do something that makes no sense)

for you!

86 posted on 04/06/2009 6:21:29 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks.)
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To: fremont_steve
(Sigh).

Sun was co-founded by an Indian if I recall. You know, back when everyone agrees the Indians *were* "the cream of the crop". And from what I have heard, they hired very many folks from India.

IF the hype about Indians walking on water were true, Sun would've done better, much better.

As for the bit about an Indian displacing an American. If you refer to jobs that have gone overseas. Sure - I won’t contest that occurs. If you are talking about the Indians who come here to work legally via one mechanism or another I don’t agree.

Ever hear of the company mockingly called "Hewlitt-Patel?" Or the CEO who claimed "No *American* has a right to a job"?

Or Brian Valentine of Microsoft declaiming "Think India! Two for the price of one!"

The problem with most of these arguments is that High Tech is mostly a meritocracy. People are paid what their talent demands.. Indian engineers working in the US are paid prevailing US wages.

Not at body shops; not as contractors/subcontractors; and not when higher ups from India practice "racial nepotism" or when C-level US execs clear out the US workers to hire preferentially from overseas.

I've seen it with my own eyes in company after company. Companies with 10's of billions in annual revenue. Startups. And midsize. I've seen US PhD's forced to train their replacements -- who then screwed the pooch, and blamed the US worker. I've also seen US PhD's forced to clean up the work of overseas workers, while the overseas worker "officially" get the credit.

Further - most of these kids are coming here and taking post graduate degrees which were not filled by US applicants! The US doesn’t graduate that many native born engineers! With off-shoring becoming much more practical, the high tech jobs are disappearing as well. the lure of high paying jobs are going away, with less people choosing to go into engineer.

Right, but only AFTER 10 years or more of throwing away qualified Americans, did the younger Americans figure out it wasn't worth it to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt only to be cast away as disposable in pursuit of managment's latest masturbatory fantasy. And the of course the schools filled up with foreigners.

I hate to break this to you all, but this isn’t really caused by Government policy, but business making economic choices and the advent of cheap and efficient communications!

I hate to break it to you, but government policies encouraged this kind of horse sh!t. The real truth is the businesses are doing this in the *hopes* of finding new markets; between the aging of the US population, and the lack of children here and Europe compared to the Third World, the companies want to have a new customer base. But to do that they have to transfer vast quantities of wealth *to* the Third World, in order to create a middle class which will want their products.

But they are being played for suckers -- too many of the technologies will simply be stolen or appropriated, and the markets closed to US products in the name of Indian or Chinese pride or "anti-Imperialism" or what not.

So - I don’t buy your bit about 1 for 2 displacement. I haven’t seen that in my career, and I’ve been in Silicon Valley as a working engineer for 25+ years now.

Get out of your echo chamber then, and try the East Coast or the Midwest. Scads of Indians there, hired in preference to Americans. And scads more given the same work, only offshore.

The fallacy in your position is this: India and China each have (roughly) a billion or so people. No matter how many jobs we create, it won't matter. They could take *EVERY* job available in the US and still have massive unemployment, unless they force their workers to be very inefficient, to spread the work around. If they leave massive unemployment will favoring a chosen few, there will be massive social unrest. If they do makework with American jobs, there won't be much of a middle class left in the US.

In order to have a durable, sustainable economy, you need to engage in the creation of things people want. Shifting money around creates no new wealth.

Cheers!

87 posted on 04/06/2009 6:22:37 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: fremont_steve
The problem with most of these arguments is that High Tech is mostly a meritocracy. People are paid what their talent demands.. Indian engineers working in the US are paid prevailing US wages.

In your dreams. They get paid apx 50% of what US Born developers make. That is why management puts up with the crap they write. As long as it solves the immediate problem, management doesn't usually look at long term viability -- the code is, essentially "disposable."

I know what my H1B colleagues make and I know what my US Born colleagues make -- and my 50% figure is quite accurate. And has been for over 10 years.

88 posted on 04/06/2009 6:25:28 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks.)
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To: angkor
Backlash, payback...call it what you want.

The greedy blackmailers working IT during the less than stellar hours before the whole “Y2K = end of the world as we know it scam” made a whole lot of techies rich.
It also made a lot of CEOs and millions of us “ignorant” non-IT worker types livid.

We eventually learned how easy it was to do a “hard shutdown” and fix the durned typewriter/file system on steroids ourselves.

Yes, I know programmers and other “IT Professionals” have defined skills I have not acquired.

Do “they” know “we” can learn, and will refuse to be held hostage again by a small group of computer code nerds?

No sympathy for the IT field from this quarter.
Now the people who can keep the electricity and water flowing through the lines to my home and business, those blue collar people who have physical and mental skill sets most people are unable to rapidly duplicate...those are the people who will never be outsourced.

Funny how during every emergency, those people show up and just do their jobs.

89 posted on 04/06/2009 6:31:05 PM PDT by sarasmom (Buyers Remorse Date : Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.)
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To: mbraynard
Your point is something of a non sequitur to the thread for the following reasons.

1) You mentioned doctors, for example. How many MD's are here on H1B visas? Remember? The medical industry covets shortages to drive up physician compensation.

2) Assimilating to the culture gives the game away. If the Indians were so superior, why didn't THEIR culture produce inventiveness, drive, and prodigious wealth? Back in the 1800's or so, India was wealthier than the US. And the US's "exploitation" was of blacks and (Cherokee, Sioux, Ojibwe, etc.) Indians, not Hindu (Hadji of Jonny Quest) Indians.

And you spelled "polysyllabic" as "polysylabic". Which brings up one more point. Too often Indians are praised despite being incomprehensible, and using language in emails which would get an American summarily FIRED on the spot. I thought business valued communication. It'd be nice to have the same standards about "being qualified" applied to all comers. :-) (Cheap shot, sure. But it's annoying to be lied to so blatantly by tech support. I am tempted to answer in a broad Texas drawl, "Y'awl, my name's Srikant, an' I gotta problem I ain't been able to solve, so I'm fixin' to ask some questions.")

Cheers!

90 posted on 04/06/2009 6:36:31 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: angkor

Opportunity...get it dumbass?


91 posted on 04/06/2009 6:51:15 PM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: Shyla

Good for you! This is America and English is our language. I run into it all of the time... Vietnamese and mexicans refusing to speak English or unable to speak English. I will not do business with them if they do not speak English. Good for you!

LLS


92 posted on 04/06/2009 7:17:50 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (hussein will NEVER be my President... NEVER!!!)
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To: fremont_steve; reaganaut1; little jeremiah; Indian_Fighter_Kite; Knitting A Conundrum; ...
I’ve worked with HUNDREDS of Indian folks over the last 30 years in the computer design field. Some of the brightest folks I’ve ever met are Indian.

Same here, but in semiconductors.

Liberals have discovered the Hindus to be much smarter than they thought and aren't the politically correct lapdogs they had them pegged for, now they want to get rid of them...

Kurukshetra War - Kali Yuga ping...

To be added to or removed from this ping list, please FReepmail Sir Francis Dashwood.

93 posted on 04/06/2009 7:50:18 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: angkor

I’ve heard the same thing. All of the outsourcing and Visas have really drained the talent pool.


94 posted on 04/07/2009 6:40:14 AM PDT by Homer1
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To: grey_whiskers
1) Don't know. All of the ones I've dealt with are citizens/voters (and mostly Republican).

2) Their culture does produce a lot of those things - probably in excess of that found in the United States. Part of their challenge is that much of the country is still very backwoods and they have had some pretty bad governments. And I never said anyone was superior.

As for grammar, I deal with people here all over the country on a daily basis as well as all over the world. I've never fired anyone on the spot for bad grammar. The Indians I deal with these days - here and in India - have grammar as good or better than mine or other Americans I work with.

95 posted on 04/07/2009 9:22:17 AM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: grey_whiskers

FWIW Indians do not count for any diversity measures since they are not an official minority in our country.


96 posted on 04/07/2009 7:05:26 PM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: OpeEdMunkey
In some places, "diversity" is a code word for "anything but a white male".

Cheers!

97 posted on 04/07/2009 7:14:36 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

True. I’ve actually written those reports.


98 posted on 04/07/2009 7:22:49 PM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; All

The H1B program should be suspended at least for the next few yrs.

The sad truth is that the US is no longer cost competitive in a large number of formerly high tech fields, many of which the US pioneered.

For instance, the Indian Chandrayaan lunar probe cost just $80 million as opposed to $500 mn and $400 mn for similar Japanese and Chinese probes, all launched in the last few months. Just HOW do you compete with costs structures like that? And no, the Indians float rather than peg their currency. So, its not a currency manipulation thing that accounts for their cost competitiveness.

Keeping the brighter lot amongst the Indians in India should benefit India in the longer run. Will hurt those currently in the US on student visas but am sure the higher edu and industry markets in the US and in India will adapt to changed circumstances within a year or 2 of the H1B program being scrapped.

Either way, India is destined to rise and is currently way, way below her true potential. Of course, the Indian political system is pretty much capable of screwing up anything, so I wouldn’t count on a fast or even a steady rise. It will likely be chaotic, messy but ultimately good for the country - pretty much like the democracy they have.

Just my $0.02.


99 posted on 04/08/2009 1:59:16 PM PDT by voletti (There's no place, I can be, since I found, serenity.)
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