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Pentagon to end F-22 production
The Hill ^ | April 6, 2009 | Roxana Tiron

Posted on 04/06/2009 10:52:31 AM PDT by jazusamo

In a blow to Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon has decided to purchase to end funding of the F-22 fighter jet.

The decision by Defense Secretary Robert Gates will rouse widespread opposition in Congress and is likely to bog down the 2010 budget approval process, with F-22 supporters maneuvering to secure more money.

The Pentagon will fund four of the radar-evading stealth fighters in the upcoming 2009 emergency war-spending request, but those additional aircraft will do little to keep the production line in Marietta, Ga., open beyond 2011. Lockheed Martin is the main contractor for the F-22, each of which costs about $140 million.

Gates announced the decision at a press conference on the Defense budget on Monday afternoon.

No money will be requested in the fiscal 2010 budget, congressional and industry sources familiar with the budget briefings told The Hill. Gates has been making calls to the chairmen of the congressional defense committees.

The final F-22 of the 183 currently on order will be delivered at the end of 2011. Building another four would keep the line open for only a few months beyond that end date.

Lockheed Martin and its subcontractors, including Boeing, in recent weeks have stepped up their campaign to keep the production line open. They argue that 25,000 people work directly for the 1,000 suppliers of the F-22 in 44 states, and another 70,000 indirectly owe their jobs to this program.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: 0bama; 0bamaisfailing; 65grendeldotcom; aerospace; agenda; airdominance; bho44; bhodod; defensespending; f22; gop2010; idiocracy; ignoranceisstrength; lockheedmartin; palin2012; raptor; rookie; secdefgates; usaf
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1 posted on 04/06/2009 10:52:31 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

Obama is hell bent on destroying this country piece by piece....


2 posted on 04/06/2009 10:55:21 AM PDT by Sleeping Freeper
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To: jazusamo
They argue that 25,000 people work directly for the 1,000 suppliers of the F-22 in 44 states, and another 70,000 indirectly owe their jobs to this program.
Instead of arguing about jobs (another form of earmarking IMHO), how about arguing the value of the weapon system to our military? This argument makes the F-22 seem like a make-work program, not a US military lifesaving system.
3 posted on 04/06/2009 10:57:10 AM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: jazusamo
Lockheed Martin is the main contractor for the F-22, each of which costs about $140 million.

I cannot believe they can't get the costs below this. Wow.
4 posted on 04/06/2009 10:58:00 AM PDT by microgood
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To: jazusamo

Fox reporting that this will mean the end of 90,000 jobs!! Not going to go over well with the American people.


5 posted on 04/06/2009 10:58:14 AM PDT by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: jazusamo

Obama has hated this country since he was 6 years old. His father in Indonesia taught him to hate America, all of his associations, Wright, Khalidi, etc, they have all taught him to hate America. Who would have thought that a guy that hates this country would one day become President


6 posted on 04/06/2009 10:58:44 AM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: jazusamo

I wonder how many Aircraft workers followed their union goons and voted for Obama ?


7 posted on 04/06/2009 10:59:32 AM PDT by stratboy
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To: 5thGenTexan

You’re correct, the F-22 is a most valuable weapon for our future defense and that should be the argument to keep funding it.


8 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:01 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sleeping Freeper

No surprise here. Money is tight. ACORN needs it more.


9 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:07 AM PDT by San Jacinto (gorebull warming -- the Socialists' Shortcut.)
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To: jazusamo

The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be. It did have all the pricetag you could ever imagine!


10 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:14 AM PDT by Professor_Leonide (I said to the young man who showed me a photo, "Who can ever be sure what is behind a mask?")
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To: jazusamo

We’ll regret this later.

Curses upon those who would strike the sword from the hand of our country.


11 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:15 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: jazusamo

Hubby just mentioned the F-22 this morning. His company makes parts. He said the company may be in trouble if they stopped production.
FUBO


12 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:42 AM PDT by AirForceMom (Locked and loaded, and sharpening wooden stakes.)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Exactly.
Nancy Pelosi wants to keep the C-17 line open as well.
Not for military readiness, but for her own pork-barrel project.

Letting this type of politics cloud the system endangers valuable programs.


13 posted on 04/06/2009 11:00:43 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Professor_Leonide
The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be.

Evidence, please.

14 posted on 04/06/2009 11:01:10 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: jazusamo

They r out of their minds


15 posted on 04/06/2009 11:02:53 AM PDT by Flavius
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To: Sleeping Freeper

I’d love to see the numbers on how many of those 90,000 workers voted for his wonderfulness.

[rest of comment self deleted]


16 posted on 04/06/2009 11:03:43 AM PDT by stockpirate ("When governments fear the people, there is liberty. " T. Jefferson)
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To: jazusamo
We've spent much of the W years using and abusing our equipment while the Russians and the Chinese are upgrading theirs.

We have a couple of new airplanes, the F-22 (right here, right now) and F-35 (years from entering service), to replace our older, worn and torn airplanes and to keep anyone from thinking we'd be easily rolled. So, of course, congress cancels the F-22.

Stupid, dangerously naive congress. Why is it when congress screws up everyone feels it but them?

17 posted on 04/06/2009 11:04:01 AM PDT by GBA
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To: microgood
I cannot believe they can't get the costs below this. Wow.

Well, they probably don't cost that in actual variable costs. The F-22 is still carrying the cost load of a massive R&D effort in development. Not all of which is wasted, btw. The things learned in the F-22 program will support other future designs as well.

But this is not the time to shorten this program. The time to do that is when we have something even better on the drawing board.

18 posted on 04/06/2009 11:04:10 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: jazusamo

Fox just reported that as many as 90.000 people will lose their jobs over this.

More hope and change from the Failure in Chief.....


19 posted on 04/06/2009 11:05:07 AM PDT by Gator113 (For America to Survive, Obama Must Fail..... Obama=Failure in Chief with the Audacity of Dope.....)
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To: jazusamo

That’s not all that is getting cut. It’s extremely short-sighted to put so much emphasis on anti-insurgent tech at the expense of cutting-edge research that will help us discourage another world war.


20 posted on 04/06/2009 11:05:14 AM PDT by NinoFan
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To: stockpirate

No union and not much love for BO where my husband works.


21 posted on 04/06/2009 11:05:32 AM PDT by AirForceMom (Locked and loaded, and sharpening wooden stakes.)
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To: Professor_Leonide
The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be

Is that sarcasm? It's the premier fighter in the world today and will be for many years.

22 posted on 04/06/2009 11:06:11 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Dan Patrick, a Texas State Legislator, was in DC this last weekend.

He said: “There are no foreclosure signs in DC.”


23 posted on 04/06/2009 11:07:01 AM PDT by texmexis best (uency)
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To: B-Chan
The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be. Evidence, please.

From what I've seen here at Hill AFB it is so far beyond every other current fighter that they need to put up six F-16s against one F-22 just to make it fair! It is definitely one of the most impressive aircraft in terms of flight demos that I've ever seen. It seems to defy the laws of physics at times.

24 posted on 04/06/2009 11:07:06 AM PDT by aegiscg47
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To: jazusamo; All

The site of the 21st century fighter...

http://www.f22fighter.com/


25 posted on 04/06/2009 11:08:24 AM PDT by edcoil (Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner Liberty is a well-armed lamb)
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To: Ramius
Well, they probably don't cost that in actual variable costs. The F-22 is still carrying the cost load of a massive R&D effort in development. Not all of which is wasted, btw. The things learned in the F-22 program will support other future designs as well.

So the costs of the first ones were astronomical and this is the price based on mass production.

But this is not the time to shorten this program. The time to do that is when we have something even better on the drawing board.

I agree, now is when you are getting the payback.

I just am wowed by the numbers. I remember F14s were around $20 to $30 million back in the day. Of course, I looked recently at how much it cost to build the latest carrier, and it was over $6B. Yikes.
26 posted on 04/06/2009 11:08:27 AM PDT by microgood
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To: jazusamo

I wonder if the Libs in Congress would even allow the option of foreign sales of the F-22 to our closest allies as a way to keep the production line operating past 2011? It would be nice to have the capability of scaling up production should we have a future threat, or an administration who actually wants to defend our country.


27 posted on 04/06/2009 11:08:33 AM PDT by PCRit
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To: Professor_Leonide
"The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be. It did have all the pricetag you could ever imagine!"

You're right. It is much more. And considering how long we use our airplanes (decades) and the number of lives that depend upon them, I think the F-22 is a bargain.

It's a pity that some are so short sighted, so misinformed, as well as being innocent of intellect and common sense, and yet they are the ones who decide our fate as well as the fatalities of those whose lives depend upon their decisions.

28 posted on 04/06/2009 11:09:44 AM PDT by GBA
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To: microgood

A billion ain’t what it used to be.....


29 posted on 04/06/2009 11:09:46 AM PDT by texmexis best (uency)
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To: Professor_Leonide
The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be.

Speaking of crack, put the pipe down and step away slowly.

30 posted on 04/06/2009 11:09:54 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Sleeping Freeper

You’re going to find a lot of F-22 haters on FR who will cheer this decision despite the fact that it’s part of a much larger change in focus that they might not even agree with. The fighter wars here get crazy.


31 posted on 04/06/2009 11:10:07 AM PDT by NinoFan
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To: B-Chan; Professor_Leonide

The F-22, like the B-2 batwing bomber, may be the plane it was cracked up to be, but it won’t be able to do the jobs planned for it for long. Radar and other detection systems aren’t static; I’ve read some about Aussie JORN radars that get a reading on the turbulent air behind the plane, for instance. And Remote Piloting looks to be able to soon relegate many stand-off “weapons platforms” like the F-22 and B-2 to standby duty, and ready reserve.


32 posted on 04/06/2009 11:10:11 AM PDT by flowerplough (52% of us with incomes over $200k voted for Obama and 60% of those earning under $30K did, too.)
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To: microgood

“I cannot believe they can’t get the costs below this. Wow.”

$140 million is a bunch but the F-22 is no ordinary Fighter. It cannot be compared to ANY fighter before it. If you “cannot believe” the cost - you should get more informed about it’s capabilities and weapons delivery advancements.

Another key point is the fewer produced - obviously the more each one costs. IMO - we should have more F-22’s than any bird in the fleet. But that’s just my silly opinion.

Oboy the Kenyan doesn’t care about my opinion, now does he?


33 posted on 04/06/2009 11:10:59 AM PDT by 2Wheels
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To: flowerplough

Many in the military are wanting a push for the F-35


34 posted on 04/06/2009 11:11:58 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Flavius
They r out of their minds

I agree and though I've supported Gates I believe he should have gone to the wall on this.

35 posted on 04/06/2009 11:13:43 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: B-Chan; Professor_Leonide

Yeah, I’d like to see the back-up to that claim also, along with an alternative replacement you may have in mind.


36 posted on 04/06/2009 11:13:45 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (my tagline is over-stimulated)
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To: microgood
Of course, I looked recently at how much it cost to build the latest carrier, and it was over $6B.

Not nearly as pricey as the space shuttles (not that I'm complaining; I wish we had 10 of them.) But to build a shuttle today would take at least $8 billion (Endeavour cost $5 billion in 1991.)

37 posted on 04/06/2009 11:14:29 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: jazusamo

Marked.


38 posted on 04/06/2009 11:15:00 AM PDT by southernerwithanattitude ({new and improved redneck})
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To: microgood
“Lockheed Martin is the main contractor for the F-22, each of which costs about $140 million.

I cannot believe they can't get the costs below this. Wow.”

Yes on a production run no less What the hell do they make it out of ? OR the ugly “U” word is heavily involved.

39 posted on 04/06/2009 11:15:53 AM PDT by Cheetahcat (Osamabama Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: Sleeping Freeper

I disagree. He is destroying it in one fell swoop.


40 posted on 04/06/2009 11:16:25 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Socialism is the belief that most people are better off if everyone was equally poor and miserable.)
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To: 2Wheels
$140 million is a bunch but the F-22 is no ordinary Fighter. It cannot be compared to ANY fighter before it. If you “cannot believe” the cost - you should get more informed about it’s capabilities and weapons delivery advancements.

I understand its capabilities, but I was just hoping with a lot of orders the manufacturing process could be improved to drive the costs down. Maybe it will happen down the road.
41 posted on 04/06/2009 11:17:34 AM PDT by microgood
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To: jazusamo

There is an esay way to continue production. Israel has been blocked from purchasing the F-22’s. Congress should authorize Israel to buy them.


42 posted on 04/06/2009 11:17:38 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy (tHE)
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To: edcoil

Thanks for linking that, ed, it’s very impressive.


43 posted on 04/06/2009 11:17:47 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Professor_Leonide

“The F-22 just wasn’t the plane it was cracked up to be.”

Leonide - do you have any idea of what you’re saying?

Here let me answer that: No, you do not. Its capabilities have NOTHING to do with a fool wanting to cancel the F-22 program. There is a bit of a difference between the two statements.
The fool does not CARE how capable the fighter jet is. His plan to completely unravel what ever is left of this country is his plan. The F-22 is just one more piece of technology that is in the way of his plan while at the same time - undermining a continually weakening military.
You’re a professor?! Must be teaching the poor kids the way of the big O.........


44 posted on 04/06/2009 11:18:12 AM PDT by 2Wheels
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To: Old Retired Army Guy
Israel has been blocked from purchasing the F-22’s. Congress should authorize Israel to buy them.

So they can be deployed against Obama's relatives? Never in a million years would the messiah allow that.

45 posted on 04/06/2009 11:19:25 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: PCRit

We have allies that want them now but so far we’re not going to supply them the last I read.


46 posted on 04/06/2009 11:20:00 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Wonder who China paid off to vote no...


47 posted on 04/06/2009 11:21:06 AM PDT by tc45a
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To: 2Wheels

The F-22 is a boondogle.

Besides, you can’t fight terrorists with the F-22 - It was designed to shoot down the best and brightest Soviet fighters around. Well, they ain’t around and soon neither will be the F-22.

Maybe the Air Force should be next on the chopping block. It would be poetic justice.


48 posted on 04/06/2009 11:21:11 AM PDT by Professor_Leonide (I said to the young man who showed me a photo, "Who can ever be sure what is behind a mask?")
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To: microgood

The cost per unit includes all development costs divided by the number of aircraft produced. Each incremental aircraft reduces the cost per unit.

Imagine how much a car would cost if an entirely new system was developed for 183 units.


49 posted on 04/06/2009 11:22:08 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Professor_Leonide

You’re embarrassing yourself with your ignorance.


50 posted on 04/06/2009 11:22:35 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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