Posted on 04/10/2009 8:17:26 AM PDT by Vendome
Mr. Obama remarked in Turkey: We consider ourselves citizena... We are not a nation of Christians(paraphrased)
Hi there... :-)
You said — Please have faith in your fellow Americans and God.
—
Well, I do have faith in other Christians, it’s the majority (who are non-Christians) that I don’t have faith in, and who have caused the country to go “non-Christian”.... (for quite a while, actually).
But, that’s no surprise, actually, as it is apparent from what the Bible says that this will happen. And it’s happening all right...
Another way to put it is that “nations” are not saved by the Gospel, only individuals are. Nations are judged in “real-time” by their actions, on a “corporate level” (as a “group” all together...).
So, with that measure, and since “nations” can’t be “saved” (by the Gospel), as only individuals can be — this nation simply is not a Christian nation. And that really has nothing, at all, to do with any one individual or a group of individuals who may be Christians because they are saved by means of the Gospel and having accepted it.
You’re talking about two completely separate things here. Individuals being saved by grace, upon their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Savior, having understood the Gospel message — and then — a “nation” which cannot be “saved” (nations are never “saved”, they can’t be) and is only *judged* on the basis of its corporate actions. And we see what those “corporate actions” are in the United States. That’s why it’s not a Christian nation, while there are Christians “in the nation”...
However, Obama was speaking on a separate issue. That we are a nation of citizens. We are not.
We are Americans who are citizens of the United States. There is a huge difference in that statement. Implicit in his statement is the marginalizing of Christianity and our collective values.
This of course was preceded with his bow of submission to the King of Saudi Arabia.
You see, it is contextual.
It is his innuendo and direct commentary that are offensive and incorrect.
I was talking about individual salvation. Of course, nations are not saved by the Gospel, only a person and soul can be.
The rest of your post I agree with.
I was attempting to be cheery and ask we all pray this weekend.
Well yes..., I am cheery about my salvation and for others’ salvation, too. And, of course, also for what the resurrection of Jesus Christ means for all who are saved. Something definitely to be happy and grateful for.
And from that, I would also hope and pray that this means all Christians would follow the command of Jesus Christ to spread the Gospel message to all we come across (no need to go to distant countries... :-) ...).
Obama is not the Antichrist.
He is however anti-Christ.
This is also the custom in Roman Catholic France.
Obama In Turkey “We Do Not Consider Ourselves A Christian Nation”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Honorable John Jay; original Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the Constitution said: “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
John Marshall, Supreme Court Justice, 1833; “The American population is entirely Christian and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it. Legislation on the subject is admitted to require great delicacy, because freedom of conscience and respect for our religion both claim our most serious regard.”
President George Washington; in his 1796 farewell address said: “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vein would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds; reason and experience, both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
President John Adams; “We have no government armed with power which is capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and a religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
President Thomas Jefferson; “Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?
Benjamin Franklin; “He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world.”
Noah Webster; “The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All miseries and evils which men suffer from, vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.”
Great then!
Happy Easter!
a Devil Worshipin’, Satanic Inspired, Communist
Congrats!!!! I know y’all must be beaming with pride!!!! :)
Dirty Harry:
Who are these people you quote? How are they important to the discussion? /s
Thanks. I was thinking of looking for them. May I use them in the future?
Happy Easter.
Well, keep in mind my posts of #14 and #21, and then, of course — my post #24 (something that is important for us all “individually*...)
BUT, having said that, you do realize you’re pointing out our “history” and not the facts for *today*. Today, we are not a Christian nation — only “Christians in the nation”...
No matter how cognizant I am of my own salvation and the knowledge of many other Christians in the nation, it still does not make this country a “Christian nation”... (not now, anyway...).
Congratulations!
A bit contrarian, but correct.
We are Christians in the Nation. That would analogous to our being in this world but not of this world.
Well, I would agree with you in that I don’t think Obama really is a Christian, especially from other things that I’ve heard from him and the complete absence of hearing anything from him about accepting the Gospel message and his personal faith in Jesus Christ.
However, just realize that although I do have that personal faith and consider myself to be saved, by acceptance of Christ and what He has done for me on the cross (and that I’ve accepted that, per the Scriptures...) — I *say* (also) that this country is not a Christian nation. I can say, likewise, “We are not a Christian nation.” — and still be a Christian myself...
I hope you understand that someone can say that and still be a Christian themselves (although I don’t think Obama is a Christian, for other reasons...).
*Takes Bow* Yep, and my youngest son’s class will have theirs next Saturday..
Today is a Holiday in such Christian nations as India and Hong Kong. Easter Monday is a Holiday throughout Muslim Europe.
Yes, a bit contrarian, for sure... LOL...
But you do realize that it doesn’t take away anything from the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the joy that we have in Him, especially with this coming Sunday, where we remember this.
These facts regarding the U.S. shouldn’t remove that joy we have in Christ. It’s merely a recognition of the real situation with our country.
So, I don’t mean that we should be joyless — but that our joy doesn’t really come from being a Christian nation or not being a Christian nation... it does come from our Savior, though...
—
The reason why I’ve been posting, here and elsewhere, that I agree that we’re not a Christian nation, is that I think we should be (as Christians) well aware of that fact. It also points to the soon coming of our Lord to set up the Kingdom on this earth, ruling and reigning over the nations...
You’re confusing the “government” with the “nation.” The government is not any particular religion, and is prohibiting from establishing a religion. The American nation is mostly Christian.
It’s easy to confuse the two these days, since the various levels of government take and spend something near 40% of the income produced by the American nation.
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