US religious Right concedes defeat (Has Dobson Thrown In The Towel? Not Quite (FULL AUDIO LINK))

Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | April 11, 2009 | Alex Spillius

[Schnucki]

America's religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.

Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle.

James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family - one of the largest Christian groups in the country - and once denounced the Harry Potter books as witchcraft, acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.

“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action,” he said.

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”

Despite changing the political agenda for a generation, and helping push the Republicans to the Right, evangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

Though the struggle will go on, the confession of Mr Dobson, who started his ministry from scratch in 1977, came amid growing concern that church attendance in the United States is heading the way of Britain, where no more than ten per cent worship every week.

Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country will soon, like northern Europe, become “post-Christian”.

Recent surveys

**************

Has Dobson Thrown In The Towel? Not Quite (FULL AUDIO)

[narses]

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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[libh8er]

From the ashes will rise a new Ronald Reagan..

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Excuse me.

McCain lost. McCain is the OPPOSITE of a conservative.

Sheesh. I’m a libertarian, and even I think he’s an arrogant, self-absorbed, egotistical unprincipled leftist sellout.

He lost because he’s just basically, not likable.

It’s got nothing whatsoever, to do with right or left.

Or state vs. individual, for those of the fellow libertarian persuasion. :)

Anyone else, waiting for “maverick” John McCain to start acting like a maverick, just once.

With DEMOCRATS.

[Leisler]

Wasn’t Dobson,INC., pulling for Mittens?

[ABQHispConservative]

What a crock! What is it with all these defeatist, first Newt Gingrich with his third-party crap and now this. Nice little tactic by the rats. Demoralize us. The socialists and communists never win through democratic means, why should we expect this is another attempt to side-step the people. They know damn well we are the overwhelming majority, all we need is a proven leader and all their power is gone.

[PetroniusMaximus]

ping

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Heck I was too, at one point.

Sometimes I think a Palin / Romney ticket would be a wildfire which would reignite Reagan Democrats and Reagan Republicans to roll back all this “internationalist” bullcr*p.

They’re both fighters.

If we can figure a way to keep them from destroying each other, they might be unstoppable together. :)

[americanophile]

...whatever.

[Markos33]

I'm not saying that prayer isn't enough, but pray and then take action. Example: If you're looking for a wife, then pray to God for a wife. Then get a shave, a haircut, brush your teeth, and go look for a wife.

You have to put leather on your prayers, and what I mean is, you have to put faith in motion with your feet...take action.

We are in dire straits in this country, and until we resolve to get physical, then nothing will ever be accomplished. And yes, violence may be in order.
Pray that it's not.

Conceding defeat is unacceptable.

[o_zarkman44]

all these battles have not been lost because of the ballot. They have been lost because of activist judges usurping the will of the people. Voiding legitimate, certified elections and votes by the people is unconstitutional.

I disagree with the pretense of the article. We are not defeated. We have to enforce the rule of constitutional law.
When politicians fail to uphold their oath of office to “protect and defend the constitution of the US” we the people have the full right to take matters into our own hands.
The only reason why the battles about abortion and gay marriage have been lost (for now) is because we have let judges make laws and that is not their constitutional job description. Laws can only be made by the legislative branch. When people understand the laws they can find the solutions.

[Star Traveler]

Well, when you have pastors like Rick Warren joining up with the homosexuals..., what do you expect?

[skipper18]

“From the ashes will rise a new Ronald Reagan..”

Which has nothing to do with the Christian Right.

[LiteKeeper]

God is still on His throne; Jesus is coming again, and soon, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord of all!

We may have suffered some tactical defeats, but the war is His, and we will be with Him for all eternity!

HE IS RISEN! HE IS RISEN INDEED!!!

[Leisler]

Mitt, a fighter? On what? What’s been, other than his hoped for forgotten health care boondoggle, Mitt’s signature issue?

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Maybe I’m biased, insofar as I’m glancing with some interest northeasterly from Southern California toward a certain more conservative state, should things go south at our workplace.

But this FReeper is of the opinion, the Mormon faith is very much an echo of our Pilgrim ancestors, and the rugged self-sufficiency - and the deeply held faith they represent - are something which can be a very powerful selling point, if properly presented.

And Mitt, for all his faults (undermining Governor Palin at every opportunity, at the top of the list) is successful, and knows how to lead.

I know. And I probably agree with some of what you’re thinking right now.

But he’s not too shabby, as far as candidates go.

What is keeping me from putting a Mitt sticker back on my car, is his campaign by proxy, of subterfuge and sabotage against Governor Palin.

That’s a very serious problem. For the party, for his potential supporters, and for America’s future.

He needs to put an end to that.

Completely.

[Star Traveler]

You said — We may have suffered some tactical defeats, but the war is His, and we will be with Him for all eternity!

—

Unfortunately non-Christian conservatives don’t quite appreciate that kind of thinking... :-)

[Libloather]

Will we ever see that “US religious Left concedes defeat” headline?

[melsec]

“We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”

And when you see these things begin to take place “look up for thy redemption draweth nigh” (paraphrased)

Why would we ever be discouraged!

Mel

[Leisler]

Well, now Mitt is down from a fighter, to a leader. Other than Mormons, who does Mitt lead, and in what?

(BTW, The Puritans were a pretty whacked out crew, and fairly disliked by almost everyone they came into contact with)

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Well in an odd way, his effectiveness out of the gate sabotaging Palin was a form of fighting.

Problem is: it was, bottom line, for the wrong side.

It infuriated me, and it was obvious for what it was.

But I sure don’t see any of the current batch of Republicans, with that sort of campaign organization.

The entire GOP seems to have been neutered.

There’s no fight left anywhere. They’ve become a lumpy, soft bag of jumbo marshmallows.

And just about as interesting.

[Ron C.]

Wrong, Telegraph...

The religious right is anything but dead - and along with most everyone else in the nation on the conservative side, a great many of its members are mobilizing and gearing up for a protracted fight. This thing has only began a scant five months ago... and this ‘change’ certainly isn’t what the 0 wanted to see.

The problem with many of the ‘churched’ has been an apathy - they ‘aren’t of this world’ - but, despite that sort of detachment that more prosperous times sort of ‘fed’ - they’re waking up in large numbers (it should be greater than it is, though.) Unfortunately, they’re late to the party - but fortunately, once aroused they’ve proven to be very effective at changing things in local districts where it is needed most. That sort of success - feeding the hopper that leads to higher office - is vital to real change.

More than half of the participants in the upcoming tea parties will be those that realize that they can not stay on the sidelines any longer. There have been a lot of new leaders popping out of the woodwork, getting involved for the first time. Hopefully, this is only the beginning salvo... I think most of them now realize, they can ill afford to ‘fade back into the pews.’

[wardaddy]

Unfortunately non-Christian conservatives don’t quite appreciate that kind of thinking... :-)

such a huge group relatively speaking

[Star Traveler]

Yeah, I’ve even had some FReepers tell me that the conservatives ought to dump the Christians so they could win some elections... LOL..

[Leisler]

I agree, and have advocated a generational change. Remember the energy that the Newt era, new Congressmen brought in?

Basically, I feel, we would be way way better off with a new batch of unknowns.

The old guys are too straddle(ish).

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Think about 1994.

It truly was a moment in time, which could have changed America forever. In fact it started to.

Then, democrats identified a weakness. Well, two weaknesses actually.

The first weakness, and the most damaging - was the shameful lack of teamwork on the right. Rugged individualism is one thing, but it’s important to protect the team.

The second weakness, was finding dirt on the one man driving that change: Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich.

what followed, destroyed that movement, for the next generation:

Republicans ran *away* from Gingrich at the very moment he most needed their support. And then, worse even, ... he quit.

“QUIT”.

And Republicans haven’t stopped quitting, since then. It’s been one giant, slow quit ever since.

That word, has come to define the GOP.

“QUIT”.

Where I grew up, quitters lose.

[Leisler]

Well, I live in Massachusetts, and the Democrats here are rattlesnakes, they don’t let go for anything, and play hardball, so I find wimpy, bipartisan, reach across the isle Republicans as clueless dolts that in the words of Yogi Berra, ‘don’t know how to play the game.’

As flaky as Newt was, compare him to Fat Dennis “Coach” Hastert, whom I believe was the longest ever Speaker of The House, and is remembered, right so, for nothing, other than spending.

Michael’s, pre Newt minority leader. Doormat.
HW Bush. Doormat.
Condi Rice. Doormat.
McCain. Nutter.
Mitt. Flip Floppy.
Lott. Nutter.

Palin, Jindal, Flake.... New Names, New blood.

[broncobilly]

undermining Governor Palin at every opportunity

---

As far as I have been able to tell, this is just anti-Romney rumor spreading. Where are your facts?

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Ah. A teachable moment.

What we have here Campers, is a textbook example of the phrase:

“Plausible deniability”. :)

[broncobilly]

Ah. A teachable moment.

What we have here Campers, is a textbook example of the phrase:

“Plausible deniability”. :)

---

Either that or a case of lieing. Put up the evidence so we can decide which it is.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

No comment, counselor.

We are not in a court of law.

Your rules do not apply here.

[SuperLuminal]

BS!

[broncobilly]

“Thou shalt not bear false witness” is not my rule.
You would do well to observe it.

[Smokin' Joe]

It ain’t over ‘till it’s over, and it ain’t over yet.

[Smokin' Joe]

We may have suffered some tactical defeats, but the war is His...

Exactly. We have already won. We're just working out the details.

[momincombatboots]

Thank you! I have not conceded, I do not think Dr. Dobson has conceded. I hate to see him go because genuinely desires the best for everyone. When you read his books, you can feel his intense love for others as he reaches out. Praise God for Dr. Dobson, you have planted much seed and it may seem as though the enemy has overtaken the field, but the story has a different ending.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

OK. Just this once, I acknowledge in heartfelt respect the superior argument.

On this board, you have played the true trump card. :)

Just understand please, in the real political world out there, this won’t win an argument — and that’s one which is real, real important.

[xzins]

I doubt the salvation of America ever was a matter of politics. It always will be a matter of making Christ the Lord of one heart at a time.

A Great Awakening will do far more than the rise of another Great Communicator.

[broncobilly]

Nice of you to end it that way.
If you run on to any verifyable facts on the issue, let me know. If I see facts< I will back down.

[nathanbedford]

The premise of the article is that the American culture and the American electorate have been exposed to Evangelical political activism and have turned away from it. Indeed, so disenchanted with evangelicals is the culture that their disaffection is actually threatening the viability of the Church. To save itself, the church should withdraw from the political arena where it was ineffectual anyway.

Apply this logic to the National Rifle Association. It has had a mixed record in actually changing laws in this country. We now have an administration in power that is aggressively hostile to the Second Amendment, perhaps comparable to its hostility to the first amendment which protects Evangelical churches. The states are mounting an attack on the right to bear arms by taxing ammunition etc.. Does this state of affairs which demonstrates that the NRA did not achieve all it might have hoped in the last 20 years in terms of broadening our liberty expressed in the Second Amendment-even though it won the DC case and had other success-persuade you that the NRA should withdraw from its political activities and concentrate on conducting gun safety courses?

Does The Telegraph say that American Jews should withdraw from lobbying because AIPAC, may arguably be at the historical nadir of its influence over American policy concerning Israel with this administration?

As one of the most radical newspapers in England, it is not surprising that The Telegraph might have missed some considerations which guide evangelicals. First, as biblically oriented folks, evangelicals take seriously the prediction of Jesus and expect to be persecuted in this world and assume that the political winds will always be in their face. Second, I believe The Telegraph misapprehends the lesson that evangelicals take when they make this statement:

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.” (Emphasis supplied)

Evangelicals have even a longer time horizon than do even the Chinese. They expect to lose these battles, "humanly speaking." Protestants have been around since Martin Luther and Christians have been around for a couple of thousand years. The Telegraph has a 24-hour deadline schedule.

Finally, I think The Telegraph conflates the Christians battle for salvation with the telegraph's battle for salvation on earth. The telegraph has its own worldview and his own version of temporal salvation which flatly conflicts with American evangelicals. The newspaper would like Christians to cease their Christian outreach in the sense of giving alms in the broader sense. They think that the worldly outreach of the Church is the animating factor rather than the natural results of its faith. They have it backwards.

Evangelicals, of whom I am one, are about as well organized as a Chinese fire drill. If any one person of the cloth said he speaks for me I would resent his presumption. Nevertheless, I have no doubt that American evangelicals will faithfully continue to pick up their cross and follow.

[grassboots]

Palin should avoid Romney like the plague. They are principled opposites. Palin says what’s on her mind and plows ahead, whatever the press might say, while Romney is your typical put-the-wet-finger-to-the-wind politician.

He is also the father of the bailout - offering billions to the car industry way back during the primary season while campaigning in Michigan.

[grassboots]

Dittos

[Big Giant Head]

and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

I disagree with this campaign. School is an atheism class, a Government-is-our-saviour class. The time for prayer is before stepping through the doors. The government owns the schools, the doctrine preached there, and will not tolerate a free market competition of ideas. This particular battle was lost the moment the schools took $ from Uncle Sam. Forty years of flogging a dead horse hasn't changed anything and has wasted a lot of time and resources.

[EBH]

You are so very right. I once saw a saying in of all places...a garden center. But it is very, very true.

All those seed packets hanging on a wall won’t grow unless you do something with the seeds. In fact, pray over them all you want and they still won’t grow....

I saw an act of Faith today, am man in a garden planting seeds.

Prayer and Faith are not the same thing. Faith is an action moving in the direction of your prayers.

[Rocky]

Well, what do you expect from the Telegraph (UK)?

They gloat whenever there is evidence of loss of faith. Misery loves company.

[Canedawg]

“(BTW, The Puritans were a pretty whacked out crew, and fairly disliked by almost everyone they came into contact with)”

They never should have allowed the MSM to edit their interviews.

[Finalapproach29er]

God gives to all in their lifetime; it just takes a lifetime of work and patience.

Early 60’s: Buckley starts conservative movement
1964-65 : Black/Civil Rights.
then: Women’s “lib” movement.

Conservatives just had their chance and pissed it away. Blacks (and allies) have their prayers vindicated Jan 20.
A woman will be the next President. I hope its a traditional one. :)

[LibLieSlayer]

This British muslim propaganda crap is nothing but the left masturbating to what it is that they so desperately want to believe.

LLS

[LibLieSlayer]

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR A RAT BASTARD LIKE mitt... and I am NOT alone... and as much as I love Palin... I would not vote for her if she was partnered with mitt... it would prove her decision making abilities were sub par. Get over it... mitt will NEVER be the Republican nominee. Mr 1% has nice har though.

LLS

[grey_whiskers]

Forget that "shaving" stuff.

Why do you think they call me "grey_whiskers"?

(Married for a considerable number of years to the same Mrs. Whiskers, whom I courted and married whilst sporting a beard.)

Happy Easter, early (countdown to Guinness and Chocolate continues.)

Cheers!