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End of Tax Free Internet shopping may be near
ZDNet ^ | Apr 16, 2009 5:23:59 AM | By Declan McCullagh CNET News

Posted on 04/16/2009 9:09:31 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th

If a little-known but influential alliance of state politicians, large retailers, and tax collectors have their way, the days of tax-free Internet shopping may be nearly over.

A bill expected to be introduced in the U.S. Congress as early as Monday would rewrite the ground rules for mail order and Internet sales by eliminating what its supporters view as a "loophole" that, in many cases, allows Americans to shop over the Internet without paying sales taxes.

Currently, Americans who shop over the Internet from out-of-state vendors aren't always required to pay sales taxes at the time of purchase. Californians buying books from Amazon.com or cameras from Manhattan's B&H Photo, for example, won't pay sales taxes at checkout time that they would if shopping at a local mall.

"We will have the bill ready for introduction by next Monday," said Neal Osten of the National Conference of State Legislatures. "We finalized the language and now we're working out the remaining issues and adding some new provisions at the request of various stakeholders."

This is hardly a new debate: pro-tax officials and state governments have been pressing Congress to enact such a law for at least seven years. They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness, online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 111th; congress; economy; internet; taxes; taxfree
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Figures, more taxes.
1 posted on 04/16/2009 9:09:31 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Snoopers-868th

I bought online from B&H photo and saved a pretty good chunk of change.


2 posted on 04/16/2009 9:11:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Snoopers-868th

They are desperate..They are trying to find every way they can to *Stick* it to the American people..

What’s next..Tax Garage Sales?


3 posted on 04/16/2009 9:12:40 AM PDT by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Separation of Church and State)
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To: cripplecreek

Yea, and they want to take this away also. I am sick of being taxed to death. Looks like the internet will be the next area of revenue for this pigs.


4 posted on 04/16/2009 9:12:58 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Snoopers-868th

Taxes are bad — but, just hitting local retailers with them is even worse. Why should the likes of Amazon be (in effect) subsidized, at the expense of local businesses?


5 posted on 04/16/2009 9:14:11 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Snoopers-868th
They have been threatening to do this for years.. They don't dare...
6 posted on 04/16/2009 9:14:16 AM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts ("Hey Liberals.. We don't lower our standards, so up yours!" - Andrew Wilkow show)
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To: Snoopers-868th

I must be doing something wrong. I always have to pay taxes on my internet purchases.


7 posted on 04/16/2009 9:14:58 AM PDT by Sig Sauer P220 (We have our own pirates. They're called politicians.)
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To: Snoopers-868th
We told people that this would be the coming thing when they started collecting state back taxes on online cigarette purchases.

Lo and behold.

8 posted on 04/16/2009 9:15:46 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Why should local businesses be punished for locating in your town?


9 posted on 04/16/2009 9:15:48 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 86 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: Snoopers-868th

the more greedy the government gets, the more people it shoves over to the tea partiers.

their avarice is our net gain.


10 posted on 04/16/2009 9:15:55 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts

Oh, they will do it. They just can’t stand to have anyone get away with no taxes besides those businesses need some more paperwork to do.


11 posted on 04/16/2009 9:16:00 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Snoopers-868th

I don’t have a problem really paying Idaho sales tax if I buy something on Amazon. Technically we are supposed to declare purchases like that and pay sales tax anyways, it’s just that nobody ever does.

I’m gonna have a big problem if I have to pay California sales tax if the company I buy from is in California.

Gonna have a bigger problem if it’s a national online sales tax that is separate from State sales tax so I get dinged on the income of that money, the sale, and the sale again.

Biggest problem with all this though is it will shut down many online stores as after taxes and shipping it will be cheaper to walk into a store and buy the product, if it’s even available locally.

Good for local stores, but it’s going to be the small mom and pop websites or part time ebayers that get hit, not companies like Amazon.


12 posted on 04/16/2009 9:16:36 AM PDT by Domandred (Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.)
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To: null and void

That’s a good way of putting it.


13 posted on 04/16/2009 9:16:44 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: TaraP
What’s next..Tax Garage Sales?

They have "Permits" in many cities......

14 posted on 04/16/2009 9:16:47 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators. -Will Rogers)
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To: Sig Sauer P220

That is because you buy from businesses that have a location in your state.


15 posted on 04/16/2009 9:17:09 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA; All

Why should we prop up local business?? What is so special about them?


16 posted on 04/16/2009 9:17:15 AM PDT by KevinDavis (No one should question our "Dear Leader"!)
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To: Snoopers-868th
They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness, online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

Fairness my behind! They are so full of crap.. Have the Tea Party's not sunk into their thick heads yet?
17 posted on 04/16/2009 9:17:21 AM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts ("Hey Liberals.. We don't lower our standards, so up yours!" - Andrew Wilkow show)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Thank you.

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

Congress’ mantra is “What shall we destroy today?”


18 posted on 04/16/2009 9:18:41 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 86 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts; All

doesn’t matter much, really.

Pretty soon we will all be so poor and unemployed that we won’t have the money or the credit to buy anything over the internet.

sarc?


19 posted on 04/16/2009 9:19:16 AM PDT by jacquej
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To: Snoopers-868th

“A bill expected to be introduced in the U.S. Congress”

Shipping charges make up for sales taxes.
Lead is heavy, Senator Blowhard.


20 posted on 04/16/2009 9:19:16 AM PDT by tumblindice (I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.)
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To: KevinDavis; All
It's not a matter of propping up local businesses — it's just leveling the playing field. If on-line purchases aren't taxed; but purchases from your local retailers are; that amounts to propping up Amazon, etc.

The ideal solution would be no taxes — the second-best solution is fair taxation.

21 posted on 04/16/2009 9:20:11 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: jacquej

Removing your sarc because what you said is true.


22 posted on 04/16/2009 9:21:16 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: TaraP

I think theyr’e already taxed here in NYS....You’re only allowed so many (I think two) per year.


23 posted on 04/16/2009 9:22:49 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Funny the level the playing field always seems to fall to businesses benefit. Business is able to hire illegals, go across the border of a state and hire yet a private citizen is not able to purchase across state lines without this crap. I am not anti-business but I have no compunction to level their playing field that is part of competition.


24 posted on 04/16/2009 9:24:19 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA; All

When you speak of leveling the playing field, you speak like a lib..


25 posted on 04/16/2009 9:24:43 AM PDT by KevinDavis (No one should question our "Dear Leader"!)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Why should the likes of Amazon be (in effect) subsidized, at the expense of local businesses?

Amazon uses no local services other than maybe the road for UPS to deliver your purchase on while the local retailer uses many. A more sensible rule for purchasing items through the mail would be to charge tax based on the sales location rather than the purchase location. That way Amazon only has to worry about one tax rate rather than tens of thousands of little towns' rates. Also, states will be fighting (with tax incentives) to get business to move in. Imagine a state saying we will waive the sales tax on Amazon if they move here.

26 posted on 04/16/2009 9:26:32 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (No free man bows to a foreign king.)
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To: KarlInOhio
A more sensible rule for purchasing items through the mail would be to charge tax based on the sales location rather than the purchase location.

That would be one way to get every call center in the country set up in New Hampshire!
27 posted on 04/16/2009 9:29:18 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: KarlInOhio

I have a real problem as to why I cannot purchase something from any other state without being charged sales taxes. Sales taxes of a state are intended as revenue for that particular state. When that particular state hires their workers out of state via contractual workers those same workers spend their money out of state and that seems o.k. but I cannot purchase out of state. This is just plain not right.


28 posted on 04/16/2009 9:29:54 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Snoopers-868th

Many states have laws on the books that actually mandate you report such transactions and pay the tax due with your income taxes. I don’t know anyone who does here in Arkansas - though this is mandated. This would be difficult to enforce.

Thus the reason the tax pigs want to force retailers to collect tax at time of sale. Can you imagine a fairly small internet retailer trying to keep up with and properly file/submit tax receipts, not just for 50 states, but for the thousands of counties, and the insane number of local taxes? Would drive many out of business.

More taxes, shut down small businesses - what a way to stimulate the economy!


29 posted on 04/16/2009 9:29:59 AM PDT by TheBattman (Pray for our country...)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts
Have the Tea Party's not sunk into their thick heads yet?

In a word no. But beyond that they (rightly) do not consider the tea parties to be a threat to their power to plunder and squander (tax and spend). The number of people who took part in yesterday's demonstrations represent such a small part of the electorate that the politicians have no fear of getting kicked out of office at all. They are already aware that there is a minority of people who wouldn't whizz down their throats if their guts were on fire. Seeing them gather in person doesn't add to their numbers.

If they saw that many at a gun rights rally then there might be some fear in their larcenous hearts, but only because they know as did chairman Mao that "power grows like a flower out of the barrel of a gun."

30 posted on 04/16/2009 9:30:54 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: Sig Sauer P220
In addition to business having any office/store in you state causing them to have to collect tax from any purchase in the state, California (and maybe others) started playing hardball with computer purchases a decade or so ago. They told the major mail order computer vendors at the time (Dell, Gateway, a few others that have passed into history) "You don't have to collect taxes. But if you don't, you will not get any business from the state... don't even bother sending in bids." Most of the big ones fell in line and started collecting California sales tax.
31 posted on 04/16/2009 9:31:03 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (No free man bows to a foreign king.)
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To: Snoopers-868th

In most states, a purchaser is still responsible for paying those taxes. This would force merchants to set up tax collection for hundreds, if not thousands of different tax rates and tax authorities.

Think of all the different sales tax rates. Some states have state, city and county sales taxes that vary within zip codes. Some even have special regional tax authorities on top of these.

It will be a bonanza for IT companies that sell tax collection software.


32 posted on 04/16/2009 9:31:16 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Snoopers-868th
The more they spend, the more they need to find a way to tax the people.

The more they spread the wealth, the more they need to tax us to death.

The more corrupt they get, the more they tax us.

33 posted on 04/16/2009 9:32:46 AM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: from occupied ga

Then we need to have NRA tea parties. Somehow we have to get the point across.


34 posted on 04/16/2009 9:33:18 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Osage Orange

I don’t know of any permit requirements here in California..

But I am sure that might be fourth coming....


35 posted on 04/16/2009 9:34:44 AM PDT by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Separation of Church and State)
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To: cripplecreek

I bought online from B&H photo and saved a pretty good chunk of change.

Me too. Computers,cameras ipods. Oh well they only have themselves to blame as “they” as a voting block sided with Dear Leader.


36 posted on 04/16/2009 9:35:21 AM PDT by stevecmd
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To: MediaMole

You know what, all of this is just gone beyond the reasoning as you write it. I am sick of every single fee and tax that they add. I don’t much care who it helps or hurts anymore. I care about MY wallet just like business, the feds and the states care about theirs. Call me selfish.


37 posted on 04/16/2009 9:36:00 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: TaraP
Small town near me here.......requires "Garage Sale" permits.

Don't know how much they are.....

38 posted on 04/16/2009 9:38:25 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators. -Will Rogers)
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To: tumblindice
Shipping charges make up for sales taxes.

You're shopping on the wrong websites. If you can wait a few days longer or spend over $25, you can get it for free.

39 posted on 04/16/2009 9:39:11 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: KevinDavis; All

Are you saying that conservatives prefer sloping playing fields?


40 posted on 04/16/2009 9:40:32 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Osage Orange

As we become poorer they will outlaw or tax bartering also. I can see them going after the beside the road fruit stand and the garage sales all over.


41 posted on 04/16/2009 9:40:39 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: Snoopers-868th
Amazon Tax.
Last year Amazon was forced to charge sales tax in New York even though they do not have any warehouses in there.

The most painful thing about paying the sales tax is that it is also tacked on to the shipping charges. Thus more taxes are paid online than in B&M stores.

42 posted on 04/16/2009 9:42:22 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: KarlInOhio

You’ve made some good points there. If there’s any justification for taxes, they should be somehow related to services used.


43 posted on 04/16/2009 9:42:51 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Snoopers-868th

Agree. They have to fear something.


44 posted on 04/16/2009 9:43:15 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: MediaMole
Think of all the different sales tax rates.

Also the difference in what is taxed. I've lived in states where clothing wasn't taxed, or books were taxed but textbooks weren't, or food wasn't taxed so flower seeds were taxed but vegetable seeds weren't.

45 posted on 04/16/2009 9:43:38 AM PDT by omega4412
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

Why should shipping be part of the equation for sales tax? I blame Amazon for that.


46 posted on 04/16/2009 9:43:47 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: 1_Rain_Drop
charge sales tax in New York

Another reason not to live in the anus of the east coast. (like anyone needed another reason)

47 posted on 04/16/2009 9:44:53 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: Snoopers-868th

One thing online retailers do is generate numerous jobs in the shipping industry. Fed Ex and UPS both benefit dramatically from the millions of online purchases and they in turn hire additional personnel who in turn pay more taxes and pump more money into the local economies.

Right now shopping over the net is extremely efficient and fast. You can price check and accomplish as much in minutes as it takes hours to do locally without the fuel. Having to pay both shipping charges and local taxes will in turn put the online retailers at a distince disadvantage. But this is too big a cherry for these free spending states.


48 posted on 04/16/2009 9:45:18 AM PDT by bereanway (Sarah get your gun)
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To: Snoopers-868th
online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

how about 'brick-and-mortar retailers ' not being collectors for the state in the first place ???

income, sales, property, 'usage', luxury, 'tourist' [for fast food] etc etc etc...

thats not even counting the built in 'fees' associated with most goober related exchanges...

enough already...

49 posted on 04/16/2009 9:47:37 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: bereanway

So it is basically as I said. The states want us to shop locally, spend our money locally, while at the same time they contract for workers out of state who spend their money earned in say my state in another state. Screw my state. If they want to go after protectionism of their state then I say hire the people of the state.


50 posted on 04/16/2009 9:48:37 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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