Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The truth behind maersk Alabama?
Pulled from a boating message board

Posted on 04/16/2009 7:09:51 PM PDT by mrmargaritaville

Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:

1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation. 2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger 3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction 4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in. 5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams 6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies 7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.

So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-. Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.

Read the following accurate account.

Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.

The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.

The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.

After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.

Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.

There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.

Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho44; chat; cicobama; maerskalabama; missinglink; obama; pirates; richardphillips; somalia; somalipirates
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-118 next last

1 posted on 04/16/2009 7:09:51 PM PDT by mrmargaritaville
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

These SEALS are terrorists, donchaknow....


2 posted on 04/16/2009 7:14:34 PM PDT by freebilly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

I posted this on Monday raising the same points about the timeline of the situation, especially why the navy stood by after the captain jumped out of the boat in an attempt to escape. It appears my suspicions are being proven correct.
..........................................................

The White House is lying about something here. The article I copy above says he granted the authorization on Friday night at 8pm Wash DC time. The article belwo from the NY Times on April 12 states he was ASKED by the military TWICE and FINALLY granted authorization Saturday morning. The KEY here is the CAPTAIN jumped out of the boat on FRIDAY night at about MIDNIGHT local (Somali time). This is 5 PM WASH DC time or THREE hours before he supposedly granted authroization according to US NEWS, and more than 12 hours before he did according to the NY TIMES.
In either case it appears he had to be TALKED inot it by the military, and in the meantime the captain was in danger while Barry diddled around.

The Defense Department twice sought Mr. Obama’s permission to use force to rescue Captain Phillips, most recently on Friday night, senior defense officials said. On Saturday morning, the president agreed, they said, if it appeared that the captain’s life was in imminent danger.

1 posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 2:35:02 PM by milwguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies | Report Abuse]


3 posted on 04/16/2009 7:15:36 PM PDT by milwguy (........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

We know the mantra of this affirmative action fraud-in-chief’s administration: never let a crisis go to waste. Currentl;y, this same POIE (piece of Islamic excrement) is leaking the details of our CIA operations against terrorists, as a way to divert attention from the truth of this feckless almost blackman’s anti-American reality. BUT the American people appear to want to be lied to, to be deceived daily, and to have their constitutional contract voided for the bread and circuses promises of a lying Democrat at the helm. May God have mercy upon US.


4 posted on 04/16/2009 7:16:47 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

gutless wonder of the bambi whitehouse


5 posted on 04/16/2009 7:17:06 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

We don’t know if this is true or not, or whether it is from a reliable source or not, and I suppose we never will.

But it’s exactly the way I was figuring it happened.

I’ve repeatedly pointed out that the brave captain dove into the water because he figured the Bainbridge would cover him and rescue him—and they didn’t. Why? The only possible reason I can think of was that Barry gave explicit orders not to fire.

All the rest of it sounds probable too.

I also said that the captain probably finally said to himself, “The hell with it. This can’t go on.” Then he said, “Look, they’re pointing a weapon at him. He’s in eminent danger. OK, you have permission, fire when ready!”

The only good thing about it is that the officer who gave the order will not be punished, because Obama needs to take credit.


6 posted on 04/16/2009 7:18:09 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville; Travis McGee

BTTT


7 posted on 04/16/2009 7:18:27 PM PDT by CodeToad (Anyone wanting the government to take over medical care should stand in line at the post office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freebilly
OR, soon to be, just like all the rest of us who've served in the US military.

Obama and his no-talent crew have managed to give none of us any reason to come to their defense about anything.

Very stupid of them, but that's what you get when the Democrats win. Oh, that, stupidity, and a couple of genocides. Democrats are really into genocide so it's just a matter of weeks until Obama has our military stand aside while tens of thousands of innocent people are murdered somewhere.

8 posted on 04/16/2009 7:18:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

Poor Capt. Phillips and thank God for the Navy and SEALS that he is alive. His merchant crew are also good and brave men.

The capt jumped in a dark ocean and the SEALS should have been able to end it right there as mentioned in the story.

We have to find a top attorney who is EX-JAG officer. He needs to take a case to SCOTUS with thousands of active military plaintiffs as John & Jane Doe.

This Napolotano & HHS calling veterans possible right wing terrorists is sickening. The attorney needs to bring the case from the military plaintiffs demanding a HI BC or natural born citizen status. Hussein needs to turnover a HI BC and NBC or step down.

SCOTUS needs to decide if they will tell our military that they have NO standing in defending The Constitution and why they should die to protect The Constitution when SCOTUS is too chicken to demand proof.


9 posted on 04/16/2009 7:19:31 PM PDT by Frantzie (Boycott GE - they own NBC, MSNBC, CNBC & Universal. Boycott Disney - they own ABC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

BTTTTTT


10 posted on 04/16/2009 7:20:09 PM PDT by rbosque (10 year Freeper!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
I posted on more than one Easter Sunday Pirate thread and Easter Seal thread.
I was roundly rebuked by those who thought Obama deserved some credit.
I thought it sounded like pure BS from the start.
I felt sure that the Navy acted because they were FORCED to act, and that Obama was screwing things up.

It appears that I was right.

Not very comforting though, since we have to worry about the next crisis with our wimp in chief.

11 posted on 04/16/2009 7:21:40 PM PDT by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Many of the pirates along the east coast of Somalia belong to the Luo Tribe. The Luo tribe is headed by Odinga Obama, Bambi’s cousin!


12 posted on 04/16/2009 7:22:51 PM PDT by WellyP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
I wonder what BO’s attitude would of been if lets say that was his wife or children being held captive. Do you think he would of given the shot to kill at first opportune time with out harming his family?
13 posted on 04/16/2009 7:23:06 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
Yes, there is something decidedly fishy in Denmar....er, D.C. I was very suspicious at the first word of the hijack, but when Cap got wet and then the RHIB was fired upon without return fire, well, this hearsay fits. I'm just sayin’.
14 posted on 04/16/2009 7:23:28 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (It's only recoil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

Bad enough the guy was captured, but when he escaped and was not immediately rescued, those thugs probably really made life hell for him. I think we were all wondering why no attempt at rescue was made at that point.


15 posted on 04/16/2009 7:23:49 PM PDT by Joann37
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
The only good thing about it is that the officer who gave the order will not be punished

Not in public, at least. Anyone think this officer will make Captain? Not me!

16 posted on 04/16/2009 7:24:46 PM PDT by Don Carlos (At least Mussolini made the trains run on time. What has Dear Reader done?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

To BHO, SEALS = Future Rightwing Extremists.


17 posted on 04/16/2009 7:25:17 PM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG 49) "Freedom's Fortress")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

So this President gives equal weight to the lives of pirates and the lives of any US citizen hostage(s) ?

Pathetic.


18 posted on 04/16/2009 7:28:07 PM PDT by 1066AD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neodad

don’t you conspiracy theorists know this site is monitored by the DHS, ACORN and the really scary Census Bureau??

//sarc


19 posted on 04/16/2009 7:28:39 PM PDT by GeronL (TYRANNY SENTINEL. http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Exactly as I figured as well! By the way, when someone has machine guns pointed at you and is threatening to kill you, are you not in imminent danger?? I truly wondered about this. I guess since those pirates are always pictured w/big smiles on their faces, they’re friendly nice pirates, not mean evil ones??


20 posted on 04/16/2009 7:29:59 PM PDT by hulagirl (Mother Theresa was right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff...

I think the eventual outcome was rather peaceful.

21 posted on 04/16/2009 7:30:50 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: milwguy
The White House is lying about something here

King Obama is a real treasure. Lies are all he knows. And this whole Administration is one big rotten pile of trash.

22 posted on 04/16/2009 7:31:19 PM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
Well that is weird. Kinda the way most of us around here thought it happened
23 posted on 04/16/2009 7:31:40 PM PDT by Vendome
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: milwguy

I understood him to have 17 briefings over 4 days and a pizza flown in from Saint Louis.


24 posted on 04/16/2009 7:32:53 PM PDT by Vendome
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62

when I think about those three fatal shots I have this image in my mind of of what happens to three watermelons at a Gallagher concert.


25 posted on 04/16/2009 7:34:18 PM PDT by mrmargaritaville
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.

When Capt. Phillips jumped the first time, he was shot at by the pirates. Why wasn't that considered 'imminent danger'?

26 posted on 04/16/2009 7:34:39 PM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
"The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger."

Piracy is so peaceful, you know.

America is under occupation; we have no president; long live the president.

27 posted on 04/16/2009 7:34:53 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

OH, but you miss the wisdom of The One! HE knew that after 5 days, the yutes would be very tired— not getting much quality sleep. Then the time came and it was time to kill those children.


28 posted on 04/16/2009 7:36:36 PM PDT by Mark (Don't argue with my posts. I typed while under sniper fire..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don Carlos

Agreed, he is toast (but he knew that when he gave the order) The next “overseas contingency operation” may have a very different outcome (Maybe like ‘Desert One’) because a CO will be unwilling to act independently.


29 posted on 04/16/2009 7:39:42 PM PDT by NAVY84
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
That this account is true is plain to see from every MSM report on the ultimate engagement. That there was imminent danger to the Captain was stressed first, foremost, and repeatedly, and the term is found in >15,000 news articles. This is obviously CYA by the Navy officers, who fear the WH turning on them. They used the term like a talisman, as Gore did "controlling legal authority".
30 posted on 04/16/2009 7:41:05 PM PDT by Plutarch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don Carlos

That did occur to me too. I would hope that Obama is smart enough not to make an issue of it, because it would not reflect well on him if it came out. He would be stupid to take vengeance on some relatively unimportant guy he’ll never even meet if it might threaten to reflect badly on him.

But apart from that, Obama will predictably promote as many of the wrong guys as he can. clinton went out of his way to promote a**holes and timeservers, of whom Wesley Clark is probably the best known. Obama will also screw up the chain of command and the Pentagon, as much as he can.


31 posted on 04/16/2009 7:42:36 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

thanks and bookmark


32 posted on 04/16/2009 7:44:28 PM PDT by Leofl (I'm from Texas, we don't dial 9-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freebilly
These SEALS are terrorists, donchaknow....

What's the difference between a Somali pirate and 0bama?

One is an African-born, black, Muslim hell bent on seizing assets and extorting money by any means possible to redistribute to his friends and the other is....

...hang on....

the same thing..

33 posted on 04/16/2009 7:45:35 PM PDT by Wil H (The most destructive act of Muslim terrorism against the US was paying for 0bama's Harvard education)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

BTTT


34 posted on 04/16/2009 7:46:47 PM PDT by dfwddr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
The Truth is the most powerful force on earth. The truth about this incident will haunt BHO, as it should. May God mercifully remove him from our lives.
35 posted on 04/16/2009 7:49:48 PM PDT by Senator_Blutarski (No good deed goes unpunished.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
" Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean "

Political Plagiarism
36 posted on 04/16/2009 7:53:12 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Plutarch

Greta just mentioned that the captured pirate is 19 (not 16) as was reported. I’ve said all along that these guys were all coached to say they were under 18-so the would not be treate\tried as adults.


37 posted on 04/16/2009 7:54:51 PM PDT by mrmargaritaville
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Wil H

Obama walks into a bar with a parrot on his shoulder.

The bartender looks up and says, “Hey, where’d you get that?”

The parrot replies, “In Kenya - they’re all over the place!”


38 posted on 04/16/2009 7:55:34 PM PDT by Vendome
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
I was roundly rebuked by those who thought Obama deserved some credit.

Well, I wasn't one who criticized you but did mistakenly (mea culpa) believe that no action would have been taken without the WH's OK. If this report is true, and it makes sense in view of the climate in D.C., then the fact that the on scene commander took the action within the confines of his instructions rates him high marks. Probably something Obama didn't count on.

There's bound to be another situation like this and it will be interesting to see if Obama & Crew hogtie that commander even further.

39 posted on 04/16/2009 7:56:07 PM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
Capt. Phillips nearly lost his life due to Obama's attempted rapprochement with Islam.
40 posted on 04/16/2009 7:56:22 PM PDT by Oratam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville
Greta just mentioned that the captured pirate is 19 (not 16) as was reported.

Gee I hope somebody cut him open and counted the rings.
41 posted on 04/16/2009 7:57:06 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
" The only good thing about it is that the officer who gave the order will not be punished, because Obama needs to take credit. "

Correction :
The only good thing about it is that the officer who gave the order will not be punished ( not yet ) , because Obama needs to take credit, then after the whole thing blows over and out of the news, and spotlight, then, they will punish the Naval officer.
42 posted on 04/16/2009 7:57:55 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Yep. I didn't for an instant buy early news reports that the Captain jumped a second time and so doing prompted the rescue. I suspected that the SEALS figured, "To hell with Obama," went in and popped the terrorists, leaving one alive for more info, and made the official story (there were no news choppers or reporter witnesses) that the captain jumped again and that's why they had to go in. They would have Obama by the balls.

The captain would go along with the story and say, "Sure, I jumped a second time!" in order to save the SEALS asses, and if the surviving terrorist denied it, so what, and the other three were dead. Obama couldn't say a word without betraying himself and looking like the wiener he is. Later the story changed and dropped the fictitious second jump scenario, because to leave it like that would make it pretty obvious that Obama didn't initiate the rescue (which he didn't in any case), so it had to be changed to the SEALS acting on his orders.

Sounds like the way it really played out (though we will never know that) was close to what I suspected. God bless the Navy SEALS.

43 posted on 04/16/2009 8:05:23 PM PDT by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

“OR, soon to be, just like all the rest of us who’ve served in the US military. Obama and his no-talent crew have managed to give none of us any reason to come to their defense about anything.”

Actually, this man and his crew may well give you and many others reason to rise up to protect and this country.


44 posted on 04/16/2009 8:06:02 PM PDT by AlphaOneAlpha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
" Not very comforting though, since we have to worry about the next crisis with our wimp in chief. "
The next ( fabricated or not Crises ) will not be so clear cut and dry as this one was with 3 Navy Seals sniper fire to those 3 gangsta thug PI RATS .... there won't be a easy fix next time.
The next Crises could very well be North Korea sending nuclear missiles into South Korea and the US military will ask Mr. Obama to take action, and Mr. Obama will take no action while finding a " Peaceful Solution " as millions are dying in South Korea.
45 posted on 04/16/2009 8:06:38 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

that would be too easy-I want to see how osamaobama is going to handle this situation-he won’t have the guts do string him up-which is the way civilized people deal with pirates.


46 posted on 04/16/2009 8:07:04 PM PDT by mrmargaritaville
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Prophet in the wilderness

A commander with the strength and willingness to make a command decision... someone like that has got to be a gnawing vexation to the squishy wishy hopenchange “CIC”.


47 posted on 04/16/2009 8:10:06 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Finny

Yep. It figures. For one thing, after he jumped the first time, the pirates tied the Captain up after they got him back on board, and I doubt whether they would have given him a second chance to escape.

Thanks to Obama he spent about four days tied up with a gang of itchy trigger-fingered ragheads pointing their weapons at him, and I won’t go into all the other likely details, but I would think it must have been extremely unpleasant.


48 posted on 04/16/2009 8:10:21 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62
" I think the eventual outcome was rather peaceful. "

Yeah, those 3 Gangsta Thug PI RATS are sleeping with the fishes tonight....

GANGSTA THUG PI RATS NEW HOME
49 posted on 04/16/2009 8:13:52 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: mrmargaritaville

Anybody know at what range our SEALs too their shots?


50 posted on 04/16/2009 8:19:31 PM PDT by navyblue (<u>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-118 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson