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How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic
AEI Online ^ | December 11, 2008 | Michael Novak

Posted on 04/18/2009 5:41:01 PM PDT by Conservative Coulter Fan

The Western world has never taken Islam with the full seriousness it has earned. Down through history, once Islamic armies have conquered a land, with very few exceptions, that land has remained Muslim. A Christian will wish in vain that the great circle of Christian lands around the Mediterranean (and on up into Syria, Iraq, Iran, and northwards into Georgia) had not fallen irretrievably into Muslim hands, most of them before 732 A.D. For Christians who think that the future of the world favors movement in their direction, a study of the latent dynamism of Islam is not a little unsettling.

Edward Gibbon, finishing up his The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776-78), was able to imagine how easily serene little Oxford could have been dominated by tall Islamic minarets before his birth, and the accents in its markets would have been Arabic: " . . . the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet" (469).

Gibbon was writing about the decisive battle of Poitiers in 732 A.D., when at last a Christian leader, Charles Martel ("Charles the Hammer"), drove back the Muslims from their highwater mark in Western Europe with such force that they went reeling backwards into Spain. From there, it took Spain another 750 years--until 1492--to drive Islamic armies back into North Africa, whence they had invaded. Even so, the Islamic terror bombers who just a few years ago killed more than a hundred commuters in Madrid did so (they announced) to avenge the Spanish "Reconquista" of 1492. For Islam, to lose a territory once Muslim is to incur a religious obligation to wrest it back.

It had been a marvel in 732 that a mere one hundred years earlier, Mohammed had launched his army from Medina, to conquer in rapid fire so many of the most glorious capital cities of Christianity--Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Hippo, Tunis, Carthage, and then all of Spain. More amazingly still, Muslims went very quickly further into the Far East than Alexander the Great ever had.

Even today, in the eyes of influential Muslims, the expansion of Islam (although it covers a huge swathe of geography) is far from finished. The religious obligation at the heart of Islam is to conquer the world for Allah, and to incorporate it all into the great Islamic Umma. Only then will the world be at peace. Submission to Allah is the reason why the world was created.

In any case, Islam began making war on the Christian world from the very first moments of its birth. For a thousand years afterward, it fell to southern Europe, and in particular the Pope, to give active military resistance to the "Saracens" (as the Islamists came to be known in the West). From 632 A.D. until about 1292, Arab nations led the Muslim onslaught on the West. After that, the Turks established their dominion (the caliphate) over most of the Arab world. For hundreds of years a huge sea war ensued for control of the Mediterranean. But war by land was not called off. The Turks expanded their empire in all four directions on the map. For more than a century they made attempt after attempt to take down the largest and richest of the Christian capitals, Constantinople, whose walls they finally breached in 1453. There followed great plunder, huge fires of destruction, the desecration of Christian basilicas and churches, murder, torture and thousands of Christian men, women, and children marched off in long lines toward slavery in the East.

A long line of great warrior-sultans sponsored Turkish advances in shipbuilding, gunnery, military organization, and training. By the mid 1550s, they had slowly conceived of a long-term offensive, a pincers movement first by sea and then by land, to conquer the whole northern shore of the Mediterranean. They first launched a massive sea attack in 1665 on the crossroads of the Mediterranean, the strategically placed island of Malta, and were repelled after an epic siege (which in itself is one of history's great stories). Their penultimate aim was to take all Italy; then all Europe. 

The northern pincers movement by land was aimed at an attack up through the Balkans for the onquest of Budapest and then, in a northeast arc into Slovakia and Poland. In this way, the Muslim forces would essentially encircle Italy from the North.

Because by 1540 the Reformation was separating the Christian nations of the north from Rome, the Sultans soon recognized that the Christian world would no longer fight as one. The next hundred years or so would be the most fruitful time since Mohammed to fulfill the destiny of Islam in Europe.

The Preliminary Battles on Malta (1565) and at Famagusta (1571)

Each new caliph of the Islamic empire was expected to expand the existing Muslim territories, in order to fulfill the mission given Islam, and to gain for the leader the necessary popularity and legitimacy. So it was that in the pleasant springtime of 1571, an entire Muslim fleet under Ali Pasha was ordered by the Sultan to seek out and destroy Christian dominance of the Mediterranean Sea, all the way up to Venice. During the summer, Ali Pasha raided fort after fort along the Adriatic Shore, picked up thousands of hostages as slaves, and sent at least a small squadron to blockade for two or three days the approaches to St. Mark's Square in Venice, not least to plant a seed of terror about worse things to come.

Meanwhile, another large Muslim force soon conquered Cyprus, most practicing ritual cruelties on the defeated population of Nicosia, setting fire to churches, beheading the older women, and marching all younger Christians of both sexes into slavery. The Muslim armies then headed north for the fortress of Famagusta, the last Venetian stronghold on the island, the "extended arm" of the trading posts and protective forts of the Venetian navy in the entire eastern Mediterranean. An army of 100,000 opened the siege, against a force of 15,000 behind the walls.

Under the energetic generalship of the elderly General Marcantonio Bragadino, the small band of defenders held out for week after week, despite receiving more than 180,000 incoming cannonballs. The defenders ran so short of food that in the end they were eating cats, until they consumed their last one. The Muslim general was outraged by the length of the siege, which had already cost him 80,000 of his best men, despite the fact that Famagusta's fate was sealed from the first days. Yet there were still long days and sometimes nights of hard hand-to-hand fighting just outside the walls. Muslim losses kept getting fully replenished by sea, and the Muslim forces grew stronger even as the Christians got down to their last six barrels of gunpowder, and had only four hundred men still able to fight.

On August 1, General Bragadino finally accepted surrender terms, which guaranteed safe passage of all his men to sail home to Venice, and safety to all citizens of the walled city. He walked with the full scarlet regalia of his office out from the walls and down to the tent of the Alfa Mustafa, the victorious commander. There the two leaders conversed. Then something went wrong, and Mustafa grew visibly angry and called for his men to behead the full complement of 350 survivors who had laid down their arms to march out with Bragadino. All 350 bleeding heads were piled up just outside Mustafa's tent.

Mustafa then ordered Bragadino's ears and nose chopped off, and forced the man to go down on all fours wearing a dog's collar around his neck, to the jibes, mockery, and horror of the onlookers. Bags of earth were strapped over Bragadino's back and he was made to carry them to the walls of the fortification, and to kiss the earth each time he passed Mustafa. As the old man grew fainter from the loss of blood from his head, he was tied to a chair, put in a rope harness and hoisted up to the highest mast in the fleet, so that all survivors of the city might see his humiliation. Then Bragadino's chair was dropped in free-fall into the water and brought out again. The tortured Venetian was led in ropes to the town square and stripped. At a stone column (which still stands today), Bragadino's hands were tied outstretched over his head, and an executioner stepped forward with sharp knives to carefully remove his skin, keeping it whole. Before the carver had reached Bragadino's waist, the man was dead. His full skin was then stuffed with straw, once again raised up to the highest mast, and sailed around to various ports as a trophy of victory, and finally taken back to Istanbul for permanent exhibition.

Meanwhile, Don Juan had put the Christian fleet of some 200 vessels on course toward Lepanto, where Ali Pasha was refitting his vessels in the safe protection of an impregnable harbor. On board the Christian ships, the Spaniards were under secret orders to avoid fighting, only to keep their honor by going along, while urging reasons to turn back. By contrast, when a fast corsair dispatched from Famagusta arrived to deliver the tale of the last dishonors visited on General Bragadino and his 350 surviving soldiers, the blood of the Venetians boiled. They now allowed no question of turning back. They were determined to avenge the horrors suffered by their comrades in arms.

The young Don Juan was buoyed by this new resolve. Now he would be able to keep the vow he had made to Pope Pius V, to seek out and destroy the threatening enemy. The young admiral--he was twenty-two when he became commander of this fleet--felt confident in his battle plan. He had taken care to have his whole fleet rehearse their roles in the quiet seas of the Adriatic, just before turning toward Lepanto.

Don Juan and many of his men spent much of the night before battle in prayer. The fate of their civilization, they knew, depended on their good fortune on the morrow. The uncertainties of the changing winds and choppy seas, and the speed of the two onrushing lines of ships rapidly closing on each other, would erupt in unpredictable havoc. The odds against the Christians in ships were something like 350 ships to 250. But the Christians had a secret weapon.

The Greatest Sea Battle in History: Lepanto, October 1571

For more than three years Pope Pius V had labored mightily to sound alarms about the deadly Muslim buildup in the shipyards of Istanbul. The sultan had been stung by the surprising defeat of his overwhelming invasion force in Malta in 1565. The savagery of Muslim attacks on the coastline villages of Italy, Sicily, Dalmatia, and Greece was ratcheted upwards. Three or four Muslim galleys would offload hundreds of marines, sweep through a village, tie all its healthy men together for shipment out to become galley slaves, march away many of its women and young boys and girls for shipment to Eastern harems, and then gather all the elderly into the village church, where the helpless victims would be beheaded, and sometimes cut up into little pieces, to strike terror into other villages. The Muslims believed that future victims would lose heart and swiftly surrender when Muslim raiders arrived. Over three centuries, the number of European captives kidnapped from villages and beaches by these sea pirates climbed into the hundreds of thousands. 

The reason for this kidnapping was that the naval appetite for fresh backs and muscles was insatiable. Most galley slaves lived little more than five years. They were chained to hard benches in the burning Mediterranean sun, slippery in their own excrement, urination, and intermittent vomiting, often never lying down to sleep. The dark vision that troubled the pope during the late 1560s was of even more horrible calamities to befall the whole Christian world, bit by bit. But unity in Europe was hard to find, and even more scarce was the will to fight for survival.

Finally, Don Juan of Austria, the younger brother of the King of Spain, an illegitimate son, stood erect and summoned allies to repel the much-anticipated Muslim advance. He aimed at leading a large fleet to go after the new Muslim fleet preemptively, before they could depart from their home seas. Having seen Muslim ferocity first hand, the Venetian public was eager to contribute a fleet to the task. Their support was crucial, for Venice was in those days the shipbuilding and gunnery capital of the world, producers (for a profit) of the most innovative, most versatile, stoutest, and most seaworthy armed vessels in the world. The best sea captains of Venice were the most eager to avenge their friends and fellow citizens. 

For years, Venice had preferred peace with the Muslim East, in order to carry on their lucrative international trade. Now there was a cause that took precedence over the traditions of commerce. Genoa, too, contributed a fleet under their famous but now elderly Admiral Andrea Doria, these days a less bold warrior despite the glory of his earlier exploits.

The Knights of Malta, the premier sea warriors of the time, offered their small but highly skilled fleet in support of the Pope's appeal, and agreed to work cooperatively with Don Juan.

The latter, whom his contemporaries described as a modest and humble man, characteristically set aside his own ego for the sake of the cause that engaged him. He pledged to the armada a large contingent supplied by Spain and Portugal. By the end of September 1571, eager to get their job done before winter turned the seas choppy and unfit for battle, the four distinct parts of the Christian fleet sailed past Italy, hugging the coasts, sending teams of observers to land to pick up the latest intelligence on the Muslim force. Finally, they learned that an enormous Muslim fleet, nearly 100 ships larger than their own, was sailing near to land toward the Gulf of Lepanto. No more talking, Don Juan told his leading admirals; now, battle.

Keeping the Knights of Malta in reserve just a short distance behind the main battle line, Don Juan assigned the impassioned Venetians the important left flank, with its leftmost ships close to the shore line. He himself commanded a hundred vessels at the center. In plain sight was his capitol ship, the Real, its banners of leadership visible to all. To the right flank he assigned the venerable Andrea Doria and the Genoese fleet. The plan was to hold his ships in as long and straight a line as seamanship in a besetting wind would allow, while heading directly for the Muslim line.

At his front, however, Don Juan placed a nasty surprise for Ali Pasha. Six new, taller, sturdier ships packed with cannons (especially in the bow) and heavily laden with lead and shot placed themselves a mile forward of the Christian line. They looked flat on top, like merchant ships. No one had ever seen such ships before. They lacked a bow rising up skywards, the one necessary weapon for vicious ramming. For the purpose of these new galleasses, as they were called, was not to ram oncoming ships but to blast them with an array of cannons. Their shot could carry a mile with great accuracy. When the galleasses turned sideways, they could blast with even more cannons, designed for shorter ranges, often aiming their cannon just at the waterline of their foes. They had the power to sink a smaller, lighter, faster Muslim galley with a single burst.

At first, the two fleets spotted each other on the horizon as single masts, then small numbers, and only as the two fleets closed to about two miles of each other could any one of the two hundred thousand sailors, marines, and janissaries on board catch a glimpse of the lines and dispositions of the fleets. The Muslims preferred to attack in a crescent rather than a straight line, but the winds at their back and tricky tides from the shoreline to their north forced them to straighten up their lines. Those who gazed on the massive array of ships and sails were filled with awe. On deck, one of those to be wounded in this battle, the great author Miguel de Cervantes wrote of "the most noble and memorable event that past centuries have seen." Just over six hundred ships in two amazingly orderly lines, each stretching three miles from end to end, silently bore down on one another as the distance between them closed. The Muslim fleet outnumbered the Christian fleet by nearly a hundred ships. A sense of destiny weighed upon all who watched and waited.

The huge green battle flag of Allah--his name embroidered on it in Arabic some 29,800 times--marked out the tall capital ship Sultana, on which the fearsome young admiral Ali Pasha held command. Pasha was puzzled by the six more or less flat barges out in front of the Christian lines. His own armed soldiers were reliant mostly on clouds of arrows. His sailors had mastered the arts of ramming, and disgorging massive boarding parties onto the enemy's slippery decks, then beating down their defenders by a sort of fierce land warfare out on the open seas. In those days, sea warfare was like land warfare, only carried out on open decks side-by-side instead of in open fields. Ship was lashed to ship, sometimes a dozen together. Hand-to-hand combat was the key.

There is no point here in giving the whole narrative of the battle. Suffice it to say that in the center the volleys from the galleasses out in front destroyed one Muslim vessel after another. Masts snapped, the oars of the galleys were shattered, and huge holes opened up the thin wooden sides of the galleys to the boiling sea. The Muslim ships that were not sunk were easily boarded by the Christian ships coming alongside, built a little higher, and amply supplied not only with boarding nets but, even more important, with ranks of the old-style predecessors to rifles--the arquebuses--directing point-blank rifle balls into the unarmored flesh of Muslim archers. It is true that in a few cases whole clouds of Muslim arrows felled many in the Christian ships, including the great Venetian admiral Marcantonio Bragadino shot in the eye. Mostly, the Christian warriors wore the latest in body armor, which often repelled wooden arrows harmlessly. Nonetheless, at least one Christian ship was later found aimlessly afloat, with every single man dead or wounded.

At the last, the two capital ships Real and Sultana clashed head-on, and Don Juan led the final boarding party which in its ferocity drove Ali Pasha to the aft poop, where he soon fell with a bullet in his eye. The Muslim admiral's head was cut off and borne aloft on a pike to be mounted on the bow of the Real. The seas around were filled with cloaks, caps, struggling bodies, the vast wooden wreckage of battle, and large splotches of red blood.

On the Christian left, the Venetians attacked with almost blind rage and broke the line of the Muslim right with relative ease. They were aided by a revolt of the galley slaves on board a number of Muslim vessels, who in the explosions on board had their chains broken, and poured up on deck swinging their chains to left and right. So great was the Venetian fury that even after the battle, many of its sailors spent hours using their pikes to kill Muslim sailors and soldiers struggling in the sea. They tried to excuse their bloodlust by saying that they never wished to see those individuals sailing against the West again.

In four hours the battle was over. More than forty thousand men had died, and thousands more were wounded, more than in any other battle in history, more even than at Salamis or, in years to come, at the Somme. Never again did the Muslim fleets pose a grave danger to Europe from the South, although of course Muslim fleets kept busy expanding their bases on the African coast, harassing Western ships and territories across the Mediterranean. Technology, especially that pioneered by Venice and by ocean-going Portugal and Spain, had made the decisive difference. As Victor Davis Hanson writes, it was to capitalism that the victory was owed, for it was open markets that spurred competition to keep improving gunnery and ships, and it was the great merchant and commercial cities that built these new technologies. After Lepanto, the arts of gunnery replaced the arts of the bow and arrow, however deadly for many centuries those weapons had proved to be. Ships were made stouter, taller, more able to carry heavy armaments--and new methods had to be sought to replace locomotion by galley slaves.

As news of the great victory of October 7 reached shore, church bells rang all over the cities and countryside of Europe. For months, Pius V had urged Catholics to say the daily rosary on behalf of the morale and good fortune of the Christian forces, and above all, a successful outcome to the highly risky preemptive strike against the Turkish fleets. Thereafter, he declared that October 7 would be celebrated as the feast of "Mary, Queen of Victory." A later pope added the title "Queen of the Holy Rosary" in honor of the laity's favorite form of prayer. All over the Italian peninsula, great paintings were commissioned--whole galleries were dedicated--to honoring the classic scenes of that epic battle. The air of Europe that October tasted of liberties preserved. The record of the celebrations lives on in glorious paintings by Titian, Tintoretto, and many others.

The Northern Pincers and the Siege of Vienna, September 1683

Of necessity, our consideration of the Battle of Vienna must be briefer than our attention to Lepanto. But many of the same forces were at play as before, only this time by land, not by sea. The Protestant nations regarded the expanding Ottoman Empire as a Catholic problem. Few Catholic nations took the Muslim threat as seriously as it deserved. The French, in particular, had become used to buying off the Turks with trade and commerce, rather than resisting them in war. The French even preferred the defeat of their most dreaded rivals, the German-speaking Austrians. The nation Germany did not yet exist, only a number of smaller political units--Brandenberg, Saxony, Bavaria, and others, some Protestant and some Catholic. And so the Muslim overland advance through the underbelly of Europe seemed not only relentless but mostly unopposed.

The sultan of all Islam, Mehmet IV, spent his days in his unrivalled harems and on his huge hunting territories, some of them as large as nation-states. Thousands of mostly Slavic serfs were required to service his hunting party, in part by driving deer and other game animals his way. To uphold his obligations to Islamic expansion, however, Mehmet stirred himself to choose Kara Mustafa to be general of all his forces in the final conquest of Hungary, Slovakia, and the south of Poland -- the greatest of all ventures on which the sultan's historical reputation would rest. The sultan directly warned Mustafa not to try to take Vienna, for doing so would arouse the West to retribution. He gave Mustafa the long green cord of the Prophet to wear around his neck, both to signal the importance of his commission, and to warn him that failure meant that he must be hanged--must even hang himself.

For the drive northward, Kara Mustafa sent messengers throughout Anatolia, through Greater Syria, and out to the scores of Muslim nations from Morocco to India. He marched northwards with an ever-increasing army of more than three hundred thousand, many on horseback as cavalry to spread terror in advance of his main forces, other scores of thousands in his supply trains. This huge army took some five months to occupy Budapest, rest, and then push on northwards. They swatted resistance away like flies, and sometimes bypassed walled cities that refused instant surrender, to deal with them later with special severity.

By July 7, they were in sight of Vienna, which in those days was a walled and heavily fortified city, well designed by its military engineers to lay down fields of fire by which each strong point could assist its neighbors. Compared to today, Vienna within its walls was a small city, and yet large enough in those terrorized days to admit refugees from nearby villages who hurriedly sought safety. For the next weeks the sultan's armies kept tightening the ring they had established on all sides of Vienna. Both Mustafa with his green cord around his neck and the leader of the Viennese defense, General Lubomirski, now knew that they were fighting to the death.

Meanwhile, the Turks launched massive engineering works, including many honeycombed tunnels beginning from long distances away, out of sight, and burrowing underneath strong points and vulnerable walls that ground troops might breach. These veteran and highly skilled sappers--the best in the world--dug all the way underground both to the wide moats at the base of the walls and still further underground to the very center of Vienna. Beginning in mid-August, without any warning, huge explosions tore gaping holes in one strongpoint after another, and sometimes beneath homes in the very center of the city. The twenty thousand or so warriors within the city fought with great determination and intelligence to drive back the screaming, bloodthirsty men who were storming through the breaches, while all around them Viennese civilians rushed to make repairs to the breaches in the walls. The Christians also sallied forth themselves, often at night, to drive far into the Turkish lines to blow up engineering devices and stockpiles of gunpowder.

Relentlessly, the Turks kept heaving up huge mounds--small mountains--of earth and sand just outside the walls, from which fire might constantly be poured down into the doomed city, from above its walls. With every Muslim attack, fewer and fewer Christian soldiers were left to repel them. In late August, supplies of meat ran out, and the population was reduced to eating horses and stray dogs. A very strict rationing of water became necessary. The elderly began to die off from starvation.

Meanwhile, the Christian relief forces were belatedly and all too slowly advancing from the north in four separate columns, from Catholic Germany and from Poland, to lift the siege. For nearly forty miles around the beleaguered city, Muslims had ravaged the land, and sent refugees fleeing by foot in all directions. Thus, making use of captured Muslim cavalrymen and foot soldiers, as well as the fleeing Christians, the Germans and the Poles picked up enough intelligence to learn that their best chances lay to the southwest, through the Vienna Wood. It would be hugely difficult terrain for cavalry, and also for quick forced marches by the infantry. But one other factor spoke for that line of attack: the supply trains and Mustafa's luxurious tents, with their splendid harems and rich treasury, were also located on that side of Vienna. The approaching Christian generals met together to go over the plan of attack, and then rapidly set off to their southwest, far enough from the city to advance mostly undetected.

At intervals, back in Vienna, Mustafa had messages in German tied to dozens of rocks, which he had his catapults shoot over the city walls. One such message read:

Surrender now and you will be saved. Open your gates, turn your churches over to us and lay down your arms, and no one will be killed. If you resist the will of Allah, your leaders, and all of them, will be slain. Able men and women will be sold into slavery. You will be allowed no rights of worship, and your mighty walls will be thrown down. Fight and you die! Surrender and you live!

For more than four hundred years, hundreds of Christian villages and cities had received such messages. The duplicity and primitive brutality of Muslim conquerors were well known to hundreds of thousands of Christian families, through the fate of relatives in other overrun communities. Nevertheless, sometimes terror overwhelmed them and they surrendered. At Vienna, behind fearless and determined leaders, they chose to die fighting rather than to surrender. So the issue inside Vienna became whether food and gunpowder would give out before the long-promised army of relief would arrive. Dauntless messengers slipping in and out of Vienna kept hope at least flickering. The commander in Vienna promised he could hold out until September 1. The advancing army of relief replied that they would need almost two weeks more than that. Only gritted-teeth determination could bridge that gap in time.

One thing the Muslim armies were not trained to do, as were the Christian armies of that time, was to fight on two fronts--against the city ahead and against any oncoming forces that might arrive to break the siege. For this, Kara Mustafa relied on his mobile cavalry, some twenty thousand Tatars from the Asian steppes in camp about twenty miles south of Vienna. Because of the density of the Vienna Wood to the southwest of the city, this was the one region which the cavalry could cover only lightly. Still, if even small bands of mounted Tatars had infiltrated the hills and valleys of the Wood, no Christian soldiers could have made it through the narrow passes. Unaccountably, Mustafa forbade the Tatar leader to launch an attack on the Wood.

King Sobieski of Poland had drawn the privilege of advancing on the right flank, right through the heart of the Vienna Wood. His army's double-time march through the Wood was arduous, by narrow valleys and slow but deep summer streams. Late on September 11, just as his men were making their initial contact with the Turkish outposts, and the final battle began to be joined, the King formed a resolution to attack on the morrow as swiftly and with as much surprise as possible, to overwhelm Mustafa's bodyguard of cavalry and rush on with force as close to the supply trains as he could, and to conclude the matter on the next day. In the rough terrain where his troops broke out from the Wood on September 12, Sobieski held his famed hussars back. They were his best, his ultimate, weapon.

For hours all day long, left, center, and right flanks of the Christian army advanced far more steadily than expected, although the hand-to-hand fighting was furious, and the Turkish lines were yielding only a yard at a time. The last four hundred yards took an immense effort, but the Christian forces reached open ground with less than an hour of daylight left. This is when Sobieski made a huge gamble and boldly released his much-feared hussars. These famous horsemen wore special caps with strips of leather flying behind them in the wind, lined with feathers like the headdresses of American Indians, and the wind whistled through the leather with an eerie tone. As they charged across the open land the low, melancholy wail of the wind through their feathers frightened the Arabian horses--and their Turkish riders, too.

The sheer speed and force of the Polish hussars was too great and too surprising to be resisted. Mustafa escaped, but his tents and treasury were captured (one of his green velvet tents sits now in the Czartoryskis Museum in Krakow). The Muslim lines nearby broke, and their men began looting Mustafa's rich supply wagons and pleasure tents on their panicky flight southward. The entire Muslim ring surrounding the city melted away, back whence it had come.
Mustafa, slowed by a bad wound to his eye, was rushed southward by his remaining bodyguards. From the first moments of crushing defeat he began plotting his reports to the sultan, shifting the blame onto one of his subordinates. Yet as the Christians pursued the once-great Muslim army down through Hungary, retaking one city after another from Muslim control, and in effect laying the groundwork for the future Austro-Hungarian Empire, the sultan's anger against Mustafa finally exploded. Mustafa recognized what must happen. He was hanged on December 25, 1683, by the green cord that he had worn round his neck, a little more than three months after he had imagined he had Vienna in his grasp.

_______________

Thus, once again, this time by land, the Muslims had attempted to fulfill the Prophet's command to spread Islam to all corners of the world decisively, with force. The sultans had long had the advantage of an enormous standing army ready for all seasons, and swiftly added to when larger ambitions demanded. This time, however, the siege-lifting battle outside the walls of Vienna marked the high-water mark of Muslim power. After September 11-12, 1683, that power kept receding, on into modern times.

Still, it should surprise no one that the date chosen to bring the new resurgence of modern Muslim ambition to the whole world's attention was also September 11, 318 years after 1683. The announcement came in the vivid orange bursts of blossoming flame and dark black smoke from two of the tallest towers of the West's financial capital. Muslim memory runs very deep, and so does the Muslim imperative to conquer the world for Allah, not just by force of arms but by conversion to Islam. The West has always refused to give this long and deeply rooted Muslim threat against the West's own soul the sustained attention it requires.

Nonetheless, four centuries after Lepanto, three centuries after Vienna, today in most of the capitals of once-Christian Europe, there are more Muslims attending services in mosques on Fridays, than Christians at worship on Sundays. In some ways, the pluralism of the West is a blessing, even an advantage to the West--and yet its profoundest historical weakness lies in its own divided spirit. The ultimate issue between Islam and the West is not military force. It is the depth of intellect and engagement. In matters of the spirit, we seem always to become tongue-tied, as if lacking in spirited confidence. We do not insist on presenting better arguments in recognition of the inalienable rights to human liberty that our totalitarian opponents deny. Mere secular force will not do, when the fundamental battle is spiritual. Thus, the same movie seems to be played over and over.

That is the historical record, it seems, at least in regard to October 7, 1571, and September 11-12, 1683, after Lepanto, and after Vienna.

Michael Novak is the George Frederick Jewett Scholar in Religion, Philosophy, and Public Policy at AEI.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: catholic; christian; clashofcivs; eurabia; ggg; globaljihad; islam; jihad; korananimals; lepanto; michaelnovak; novak; trop; wot
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1 posted on 04/18/2009 5:41:01 PM PDT by Conservative Coulter Fan
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

ping for later reading..


2 posted on 04/18/2009 5:46:07 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Good Post! The way the Western World deals with Islam these days brings to mind Cleopatra and the asp.


3 posted on 04/18/2009 5:47:06 PM PDT by VR-21 (Think it's time we stop, Hey what's that sound.....)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
" From there, it took Spain another 750 years--until 1492--to drive Islamic armies back into North Africa, "

Today, Mohammedans consider Spain theirs just much as Mexicans look at western U.S.A. as theirs.

Looks like the Mexicans are doing a little better at taking back their territory in America than the Islams in Spain.

yitbos

4 posted on 04/18/2009 5:54:00 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Islam and Sharia Law is the Mark of the Beast.


5 posted on 04/18/2009 5:56:14 PM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

bookmark for later.
Print this one out and it’s an ink cartridge.


6 posted on 04/18/2009 5:59:43 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
http://www.freedomszone.com/archives/Battle%20of%20Tours.png

Battle of Tours (a picture is worth a thousand words)

 

On October 10, 732 Muslim forces under Abd-al-Rahman advanced north from al-Andalus (Spain) and were defeated by Charles Martel (grandfather of Charlemagne) at the Battle of Tours. Most (not all) historians agree that the significance of the battle for Western history cannot be diminished:

A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.--Gibbon
Read the rest here.

 

 

 

7 posted on 04/18/2009 6:04:54 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: GSP.FAN
In any case, Islam began making war on the Christian world from the very first moments of its birth.

If an angel of light (satan) was to plot the destruction of his nemesis (jesus), he would need to garner a following on earth that is ready, willing, and able to destroy all traces and references to the existence of christ.

The destruction of the truth of christ's divinity is all that is needed to destroy christ's church.

8 posted on 04/18/2009 6:05:31 PM PDT by x_plus_one ("Salvation comes about though change in individual lives, not through the ending of unjust society")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Great article and subject: http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=4526.2791.0.0

Brad McDonald wrote:

Today, the history of the Battle of Tours-Poitiers has, for the most part, been buried under masses of revisionist, politically correct, multicultural gibberish. Muslim imperialism is a taboo subject ignored by nearly everybody for fear of being ostracized, prosecuted, stabbed or bombed—or worse, igniting a global wave of riots on the Muslim street. This spirit of appeasement and non-judgmentalism, and willing ignorance of history, is preventing Westerners from analyzing the true nature of the crisis posed by Muslim ambition.

Too few are prepared to consider the fundamental forces at play in the Muslim-related crises occurring in Europe, such as last week’s brutal riots in Paris; or the Danish cartoon crisis; or the multiple terrorist plots that have been foiled across Europe; or the emergence of sharia suburbs in European cities; or the anti-European, anti-Christian vitriol spewing from the mouths of Muslim preachers in Europe, even the moderate ones; or the network of Islamic radicals stretching from Bosnia to Britain, Spain to Germany; or the rapid construction of hundreds of minarets across the European skyline, indicative of a swelling Muslim tide.

Troubles plague the relationship between European Muslims and their host nations, but few Europeans comprehend the magnitude of the crisis because they fail to look to history. This is alarming because the forces that made the Battle of Tours-Poitiers inevitable have been resurrected. The major difference is that today those forces run deeper and more intensely than they did in a.d. 732!


9 posted on 04/18/2009 6:09:42 PM PDT by keving (We get the government we vote for)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
The one Turkish commander at Lepanto who performed well and got some of his ships away safely, Uluj Ali, was a former galley slave, an Italian who had been captured by Turkish pirates and had later become a renegade. After the battle he was made commander of the entire Ottoman navy and was renamed Kilic Ali.

King John Sobieski saved Vienna from being captured in 1683. In return, the Austrians later took part in two of the three partitions of Poland.

10 posted on 04/18/2009 6:10:11 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Fascinating reading.

Muslim bloodlust, duplicity, and love of torture of enemies is nothing new. The savagery of the Muslim hordes, as well as what was required to repel them, is a history lost to most today.

In the days of messengers and notes, it is a thing to behold how armies and navies could be raised, transported and deployed by various nation-states against a common enemy.

The Muslim enenmy has a different face, but the heart remains the same: death to Christians and Jews, and conquest of their lands and wealth for Allah.

Throughout history, Muslims have only understood and respected only one thing: overwhelming brute force applied in their direction.

After 1400 years, the West should have this message engraved in its heart. The aim of the Muslims has not changed.

Ann Coulter was right: we need to invade their lands, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

But no leader in the West has the will to do so.


11 posted on 04/18/2009 6:10:55 PM PDT by exit82 (The Obama Cabinet: There was more brainpower on Gilligan's Island.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Good find. Thank you.


12 posted on 04/18/2009 6:12:06 PM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
It had been a marvel in 732 that a mere one hundred years earlier, Mohammed had launched his army from Medina, to conquer in rapid fire so many of the most glorious capital cities of Christianity--Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Hippo, Tunis, Carthage, and then all of Spain.

Not "all" of Spain.

The old Celtic region of Asturias, in the cold, wet and green land to the north of the Cantabrian Mountains was the last region to fall to the Romans during the reign of Augustus while the rest of Spain to the south had come under Roman control at the end of the Second Punic War. Asturias was never conquered by the Muslims who left it as not being worth the bother after their defeat at Covadonga by Pelagius of Asturias (Pelayo).

From Asturias, the remaining Christians then quickly reconquered Galicia and then the reconquest spread south over the next 700 years. Thus, the old Asturian saying:

"Asturias es España y lo demás tierra reconquistada." (Asturias is Spain. Everything else is merely reconquered territory.)


13 posted on 04/18/2009 6:12:16 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Don’t forget the unsuccessful Arab sieges of Constantinople in AD 683 and 717 that were probably just as decisive as the Battle of Tours, if not more so, in keeping the Arabs out of Europe.


14 posted on 04/18/2009 6:14:49 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic ............ for a few hundred years
15 posted on 04/18/2009 6:16:48 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

***..and even more scarce was the will to fight for survival.***

Sounds like Europe today.


16 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:04 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: dennisw

Just wait until these effers get their hands on nukes. Then the real intimidation and war of nerves will begin. By effers I mean Iran and the fundamentalists in Pakistan

Islam has been in eclipse for hundreds of years due to European military superiority due to superior European science and learning and technology. Unfortunately nukes will equalize the situation/ Pakistan has 100 nukes and if/when the crazies take over will they sell them to freelance Jihadist terrorists?


17 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:23 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
For Islam, to lose a territory once Muslim is to incur a religious obligation to wrest it back

It impresses me how this over-riding historical fact obviously applies to the issue of Israel, and how everyone studiously ignores it in their ludicrous "peace process" and the incessant drivel about a "two state" solution. Moslems would do to Spain what they do to Israel, if they could.

18 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:35 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Yes. If anything, divisions in the West at the time of the Battle of Vienna were even worse than this article indicates. It was left to the Poles to save Vienna, because the Emperor was off to the West, fighting against an invasion by the King of France. And the various Protestant countries such as England considered that this whole affair was none of their business.


19 posted on 04/18/2009 6:19:07 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: exit82
Throughout history, Muslims have only understood and respected only one thing: overwhelming brute force applied in their direction.

Exactly it's the only thing that clamps down on their hyper aggressive ADD
This wolf pack religion only respects the alpha dog

20 posted on 04/18/2009 6:22:07 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan; All
For Christians who think that the future of the world favors movement in their direction, a study of the latent dynamism of Islam is not a little unsettling.

I'm actually not worried about Islam taking the West over.

Islam is chiefly a danger for two reasons:

1) It DOES have many members who have a penchant for committing acts of violence against "infidels", and who therefore constitute a physical threat to those around them.

2) Islam has a way of pushing the limits with decadent Westerners such that I fear that, especially in Europe, eventually something will snap - and that snap will occur when the Europeans go nuts and start rounding up Muslims and putting them in concentration camps. It's not as if Europe is without precedent in that regard.

I do not believe that Islam is an actual existential threat to the West, however. I do not fear that Islam is just one step away from conquering us (though not for the lack of trying). Far from viewing Islam as a dynamic, forward-moving ideology, I view Islam as regressive, static, and shrinking. Islam has been on the recession for centuries. The West still - to this day - continues to possess increasingly more real power - in military, cultural, and economic term - than the Muslim world does.

Islam has lost, since it's apex, the Iberian peninsula, much of the Asian steppe, most of the Balkans, 90% of the Indian subcontinent, Sicily and Malta, half of Cyprus, Israel, and is losing adherents to Christianity at an ever-accelerating rate in Africa.

Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance, a cornered, degraded civilisation with a penchant for lashing out in violent, yet ultimately ineffectual, ways.

21 posted on 04/18/2009 6:23:37 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Third Parties are for the weak, fearful, and ineffectual among us.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Every year, on the anniversary of the Battle of Vienna, I e-mail people to remind them of the significance of the day — and why it’s important for them to remember this particular piece of history.


22 posted on 04/18/2009 6:23:55 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: hinckley buzzard
For Islam, to lose a territory once Muslim is to incur a religious obligation to wrest it back

It impresses me how this over-riding historical fact obviously applies to the issue of Israel, and how everyone studiously ignores it in their ludicrous "peace process"

Since when do our idiot politicians study history? They are too busy in the DC social whirl which is intoxicating and inflates their egos

Yes the Muslims are obsessed with re-conquering all territory lost such as Spain and Israel but Jihad means Jihad doesn't end until the whole world is Muslim. This is the Muslim version of peace

23 posted on 04/18/2009 6:27:58 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

Don’t forget Vlad Dracul:

http://www.eskimo.com/~mwirkk/castle/vlad/vladhist.html

http://www.draculas.info/vlad_iii_dracula/


24 posted on 04/18/2009 6:31:56 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: combat_boots

From one of the articles:

“Death by impalement was slow and painful. Victims sometimes endured for hours or days. Dracula often had the stakes arranged in various geometric patterns. The most common pattern was a ring of concentric circles in the outskirts of a city that was his target. The height of the spear indicated the rank of the victim. The decaying corpses were often left up for months. It was once reported that an invading Turkish army turned back in fright when it encountered thousands of rotting corpses impaled on the banks of the Danube. In 1461 Mohammed II, the conqueror of Constantinople, a man not noted for his squeamishness, returned to Constantinople after being sickened by the sight of twenty thousand impaled corpses outside of Dracula’s capital of Tirgoviste.”

http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/results/Web/vlad%20dracul%20ottoman/1/417/TopNavigation/Relevance/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true


25 posted on 04/18/2009 6:40:25 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I guess those people that jumped flaming out of the WTC were just ‘annoyed’ at this little irritation.


26 posted on 04/18/2009 6:44:04 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: dennisw

Most informative article. Is the actress Leelee Sobieski a descendant of the King of Poland, I wonder.


27 posted on 04/18/2009 6:46:04 PM PDT by Ciexyz (I heard Joe the Plumber speak 03-30-2009.)
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To: Polybius
You have your history slightly in error. King San Cho Noe I arrived from Cornwall with his knights and baggage and conquered Asturias and Galicia and set up three kingdoms ~ Castile, Leon and Carvajal.

The idea is they would be organized such that one kingdom was kept in reserve as a place of safety while the other two pushed into Moslem (and other Christian) lands in a hammer and tong rhythm.

Turned out they didn't really need to keep a kingdom in reserve. Carvajal was discarded as a kingdom in the first generation after the initial landing.

BTW, took King San Cho Noe I (King Sancho I) just a few weeks to totally bowl over the locals in Galicia, et al. They simply didn't have the technology to fight anyone.

Carvajal lived on as an order in France to which a French Knight who'd fought the Moors would be appointed by the King of France. It's symbol is a large red bull with big horns (or so I've had 'splained to me).

28 posted on 04/18/2009 6:52:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ciexyz

She has stated that her “...great great granduncle” was John III Sobieski,[9] an elected king of Poland who saved Europe with the Polish army in 1683 to lift the siege of Vienna from Ottoman Turks. No proof of her claim has ever been presented.

From Wikipedia


29 posted on 04/18/2009 6:54:09 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Over the past 400 years Islam has lost more than half the territory it held as late as 1600.

The Romanovs definitely did some damage eh!

BTW, most posters on this thread have such a Western European bias they appear to have no idea what was going on in what became Russia!

30 posted on 04/18/2009 6:56:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

bookmarked


31 posted on 04/18/2009 6:56:49 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: muawiyah

You mean the Tatars (Tamerlane), Azerbaijan, the various ‘stans’ on the outskits of Russian borders, etc? Uzbek, Kazakh, Turkmen...

http://www.euroheritage.net/tatarcrimeahistory.shtml

http://www.azerb.com/az-hist.html

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/merv.htm


32 posted on 04/18/2009 7:07:19 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: muawiyah

And yes, the Romanovs did quite a bit....


33 posted on 04/18/2009 7:08:27 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: combat_boots
Kazan ~ one of the more prosperous parts of Russia these days was just another Islamic backwater a mere 350 years ago.

Then it was cleared of its people.

Unlike the Chechnyans, they didn't come back!

34 posted on 04/18/2009 7:18:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

BFL


35 posted on 04/18/2009 7:22:07 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Tolsti2
I guess those people that jumped flaming out of the WTC were just ‘annoyed’ at this little irritation.

Don't be an emotionalistic, unthinking animal, okay?

9-11 didn't deliver the United States to Islam. 9-11 just pissed us off so that we smacked a good part of Islam around like it was a red-headed stepchild.

Like I said, Islam is not an existential threat. It's an annoyance which is ultimately, despite its best efforts, unable to do anything more than prick us here or there. Islam will not, and cannot, conquer us.

36 posted on 04/18/2009 7:26:11 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Third Parties are for the weak, fearful, and ineffectual among us.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

They haven’t escaped yet!


37 posted on 04/18/2009 7:37:28 PM PDT by calex59
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To: muawiyah
BTW, most posters on this thread have such a Western European bias they appear to have no idea what was going on in what became Russia!

Or China...

Battle of Talas

38 posted on 04/18/2009 7:38:47 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Thread of the day!


39 posted on 04/18/2009 7:41:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Don't spread my wealth, spread my work ethic!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

It’s not all our fault though. The climate disaster that precipitated the Dark Ages in 535 AD created enough of a problem in China that civil government was effectively nonexistent for the next 300 years. Accordingly, whatever was going on in the Chinese West was not recorded all that well, nor did it “make the news”, that sort of thing simply not existing.


40 posted on 04/18/2009 7:44:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Fiji Hill

I’d argue more so. Not to minimize the importance of Tours, but the threat from the East was much more dire. If Constantinople had fallen, Eastern and much of Central Europe would’ve lain wide open for muslim conquest. Furthermore, it’d do away with the only significant Christian naval presence in the Mediterranean.

However, I see both as very important bookend victories which limited muslim gains in Europe and dashed their aura of invincibility.


41 posted on 04/18/2009 7:48:58 PM PDT by Constantine XI Palaeologus ("Vicisti, Galilaee")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan; nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; ...
**The Greatest Sea Battle in History: Lepanto, October 1571**

How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic
The Battle of Lepanto
Civilization in the Balance: The Battle of Lepanto and Election ‘08

LEPANTO
A Call To Prayer: This Lepanto Moment [Repost]
Lepanto, 1571: The Battle That Saved Europe
Celebrating the Battle of Lepanto
Clash of civilizations: Battle of Lepanto revisited

Lepanto, Bertone e Battesimo, Oh My!
Lepanto Sunday
Our Lady of the Rosary of La Naval (A Mini-Lepanto in the Philippines)
Swiss Guards at the Battle of Lepanto, 7 October 1571
Battle of Lepanto

LEPANTO, 7 OCTOBER 1571: The Defense of Europe
Battle of Lepanto
Remember Lepanto!
The Battle of Lepanto
On This Day In History, The Battle of Lepanto
The Battle of Lepanto

Chesterton's Lepanto
The Miracle At Lepanto...
Lepanto
The Naval Battle of Lepanto
The Battle of Lepanto

42 posted on 04/18/2009 7:49:46 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

While I believe that communism is a more serious threat than islam is to the U.S., I wouldn’t downplay the importance of Europe’s growing mohammedan population. Coupled with Europe’s dwindling population and the moral ambivalence of her populace, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to see Europe succumbing to islam within the next 100 or so years.

Man, now I’m depressed... :(


43 posted on 04/18/2009 8:02:16 PM PDT by Constantine XI Palaeologus ("Vicisti, Galilaee")
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To: Salvation; Conservative Coulter Fan

global jihad bump


44 posted on 04/18/2009 8:17:13 PM PDT by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: Salvation; Jim Robinson

Thanks very much for the ping, Salvation. Thanks for the post, Conservative Coulter Fan. BUMP for morning read.

/FR...but its value/life/freedom goes on and I am thankful for it.


45 posted on 04/18/2009 8:18:14 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
Outstanding post.

Once again Santayana's warning is very relevant.

It doesn't look as though the civilized world is paying attention.

46 posted on 04/18/2009 8:20:35 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: muawiyah
Good point. There is some evidence that it might have been "proto-Krakatoa" that exploded that year.

The Dark Ages May Have Really Been Dimmer

47 posted on 04/18/2009 8:22:33 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance, a cornered, degraded civilization with a penchant for lashing out in violent, yet ultimately ineffectual, ways. "

George Patton wrote a poem just for people just like you.

48 posted on 04/18/2009 8:27:35 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Note


49 posted on 04/18/2009 8:30:29 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress! It's the sensible solution to restore Command to the People.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
“Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance”

OK, you say that they have lost territory, but with asymmetrical war and Weapons of Mass destruction, it doesn't take a large number of men to wipe us out.

Just one nuke in a dozen of our major cities. They don't need huge armies. Right?

50 posted on 04/18/2009 8:36:58 PM PDT by garjog (Used to be liberals were just people to disagree with. Now they are a threat to our existence.)
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