Posted on 04/19/2009 12:22:35 PM PDT by Radix
Edited on 04/19/2009 2:01:16 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Want to trim the federal budget and improve the military at the same time? Shut down West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy, and use some of the savings to expand ROTC scholarships.
After covering the U.S. military for nearly two decades, I've concluded that graduates of the service academies don't stand out compared to other officers. Yet producing them is more than twice as expensive as taking in graduates of civilian schools ($300,000 per West Point product vs. $130,000 for ROTC student). On top of the economic advantage, I've been told by some commanders that they prefer officers who come out of ROTC programs, because they tend to be better educated and less cynical about the military.
This is no knock on the academies' graduates. They are crackerjack smart and dedicated to national service. They remind me of the best of the Ivy League, but too often they're getting community-college educations. Although West Point's history and social science departments provided much intellectual firepower in rethinking the U.S. approach to Iraq, most of West Point's faculty lacks doctorates. Why not send young people to more rigorous institutions on full scholarships, and then, upon graduation, give them a military education at a short-term military school? Not only do ROTC graduates make fine officers -- three of the last six chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff reached the military that way -- they also would be educated alongside future doctors, judges, teachers, executives, mayors and members of Congress. That would be good for both the military and the society it protects.
Prepare for the slave draft??
He’s your typical liberal. If it ain’t broken, then break it. The military is the only American institution that ain’t broken yet, and he’s gotta do the honors.
Instead of getting rid of West Point, why don’t we get rid of Congress?
Winning solution, Brilliant.
Brilliant point.
****** “I wonder if this military genius ever served” *****
More likely the genius believes that they are nothing but domestic terrorist training camps.
TT
OTOH, the kids that go to the service academies, and their parents, won’t feel so extra special if they have to go through a regular university’s ROTC program.
Thomas E. Ricks is a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security and author of “The Gamble,” about the Iraq war from 2006 to 2008.
Ricks thinks future military officers should be taught by more PhD profs and attend civilian universities where their views will be challenged. Closing the service academies is a radical view and would weaken our military, obviously Ricks’ intent.
Wow, history is happening fast. Karl would be proud. Maybe we could change them to “social service officer education training facilities”.
Likely not, if he did he would know that these are some of the best people.
The country would be better off if Harvard, Yale and Columbia were axed instead.
It is in preparation for the Obamacorps to take over the facilities.
Which strikes me as a very good thing.
You’ve got my vote. If we diont get5 rid of it limit their time in session to 2 months. and pay them for those 2 mopnths only.
How about we stop funding abortions and ACORN and quadruple the budget for all military academies.
really, Mike. You’ve gotta ditch this rational thinking crap. ;)
Briefly in the Navy; he appears to be a toady of the CNAS, an organization formed in 2007 by Michele Flournoy, a Clenton admin retread and Kurt Campbell, a Kissenger disciple;; looks like more wagon circling — the natives must be geting restless.
It's strange that the example that he gives -- General Petraeus -- undercuts his argument: Petraeus went to West Point before Princeton Graduate School.
If you plan on making a career out of the military, four years at a service academy followed by graduate study at a civilian institution would provide you with a more rigorous training than four years at a civilian college followed by a short term military school.
No sign of military service (suprise). But he DID go to Yale, so he obviously knows more about any given subject than someone who actually has real-life experience.
Why is this in Bloggers & Personal? It’s neither from a blog nor personal.
Why shouldn't they feel special?
If they made it to one of the Academies on merit they have every right to feel special.
Notice I mentioned merit as many are given the honer because of who their daddy is our due to political connections. Those need to be stopped but sadly never will.
Even with that the Academies serve a vital function and while ROTC is a good way to go (I am a ROTC grad.) the Academies give the exceptional youth a chance to be immersed in the entire military culture. They have graduated exceptional officers
Agree absolutely. I’ve worked with quite a few academy grads. Without exception, all were talented, smart, and just plain good folks.
This person is an idiot but it was written in the WP.
"Thomas E. Ricks (born 1955 in Massachusetts)[1] is a Washington Post Pentagon and military correspondent and Pulitzer Prize-winner. Ricks lectures widely to the military and is a member of Harvard University's Senior Advisory Council on the Project on U.S. Civil-Military Relations. Ricks is author of the bestselling Fiasco: The American Military Adventure In Iraq as well as Making the Corps and A Soldier's Duty. Most recently, he has written a follow-up to Fiasco entitled The Gamble: General David Petraeus and the American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2006-2008, released February 10, 2009 by Penguin Press. Prior to joining the Washington Post in 2000, Ricks was a reporter with the Wall Street Journal for seventeen years. He is a 1977 graduate of Yale University.[1] Ricks lives in Silver Spring, Maryland with his wife. He has a son and daughter."
The service academies give their graduates the benefit of a proud tradition, which contributes to esprit de corps. You can't quantify that.
On the other hand, I don't know if their graduates are the best and the brightest of the available talent for the officer ranks. When I was in the Air Force, a recycled graduate record exam test was giving to active duty officers to determine which pipeline -- Academy, OCS or ROTC -- was furnishing the academically best qualified officers. ROTC grads did significantly better than Academy grads. Not trying to start a fight, but that's the fact.
Bet he is a sponsor and avid supporter of the US Public Service Academy being established.
What a commie tool.
it doesn’t seem to occur to him that many young men and women want to and strive for a career in the military,
this guy is a dumba$$
FMCDH(BITS)
The academies educate the best of the best.
“A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools.”
— Thucydides
I had a feeling for years that liberals would love to close the service academies and end the Marine Corps.
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH HIM!
West Point isn’t about recruitment like the ROTC. West Point is about making REALLY GOOD GENERALS. Without good Generals and leaders, we don’t have a good military.
BFD. Like having a doctorate makes you a good instructor? Rather snobbish of Mr. Ricks if you ask me. I'm more inclined to believe that he thinks by eliminating the military academies, that the mindset of future military leaders can be manipulated easier if they are in a regular college setting. I don't trust liberals when it comes to knowing what it takes to make an effective military, and certainly not some a-hole lib who never served himself.
First, a disclaimer: I am a graduate of ROTC, and I was a professor at West Point.
Tom Ricks remarks reflect an all too typical attitude among the intellectual elite of this country that is especially prevalent inside the beltway. These elite believe that military officers are second rate intellectuals with second or third rate educations. The service academies come under special attack because they are widely considered to be at a level of ivy league schools, yet they operate on an entirely different academic model that emphasizes quality and rigorous instruction as opposed to “quality” instructors who impart their superior knowledge to an audience of awed admirers. Taking a lecture course from a reknowned PhD whose yellowed lecture notes have not been revised in 15 years is not necessarily a good thing.
I received a good education from a public, land grant university as did many other ROTC graduates. What distinquishes a West Point education is not the imparting of knowledge, but other less tangible benefits. West Point loads down cadets with more to be done than time to do it. Its up to the cadet to decide which tasks are more important and deserving of more time and effort. The tasks are not just academic, but also military and athletic. In between, they try to squeeze in something resembling a social life. Succeeding in this environment imparts discipline, judgment, and an appreciation for what is really important in life. Of course, you can do the same sort of thing in a civilian university, you just have to do it on your own.
Tom Ricks knows the military, but he doesn’t understand it.
Thomas E. Ricks (born 1955 in Massachusetts)is a Washington Post Pentagon and military correspondent.
Ricks lectures widely to the military and is a member of Harvard University's Senior Advisory Council on the Project on U.S. Civil-Military Relations.
Ricks is author of the Fiasco: The American Military Adventure In Iraq as well as Making the Corps and A Soldier's Duty.
******
His 'experience' is reporting on and lecturing about war, not actually fighting in any!
Did he ever apply for Star Fleet Academy???
Spock took one look, raised an eyebrown then hit the “reject” button.
Whether they lack doctorates or not, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of producing top notch military leaders.
Maybe you’re not so mad!
His bio states born in Mass; raised in New York and Afghanistan.
I would bet not.
Okay, so let me get this straight. The military is the only part of the government that functions and actually accomplishes that goals for which it was intended. When disaster strikes and these alphabet agencies fail and the cannibals are eating each other in the streets of New Orleans, who stopped that? The Army! True, the armed forces often produce conformist thinkers, but when was the last time a brilliant out of the box thinker came out of Harvard, Yale or any other fine institute of higher learning. I seem to remember that Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, found it too stifling. Now if they want to send these young soldiers off to MIT to play some 21, that makes a lot more sense.
All I know is that the geniuses currently destroying the country who work at the treasury and the Fed got their degrees at those great Ivies. Ask them who Ludgwig von Mises is or Murray Rothbard or Friedrich Hayek and I guarantee you will get a blank stare back. Or how bout that gold standard, the old barbaric relic from the past?
I would bet not and it appears I would probably win that bet. Just reead a couple bios and no mention of any military service. He did graduate from Yale. ;)
"...Thomas E. Ricks (born 1955 in Massachusetts)[1] is a Washington Post Pentagon and military correspondent and Pulitzer Prize-winner. Ricks lectures widely to the military and is a member of Harvard University's Senior Advisory Council on the Project on U.S. Civil-Military Relations. Ricks is author of the bestselling Fiasco: The American Military Adventure In Iraq as well as Making the Corps and A Soldier's Duty. Most recently, he has written a follow-up to Fiasco entitled The Gamble: General David Petraeus and the American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2006-2008, released February 10, 2009 by Penguin Press....."
This is among the most moronic proposals ever.
Under the tutelage of Benedict Arnold, perhaps.
As far as the military academies go I would keep them and make them more joint oriented. At any given time 1/3 of each student body would be at a sister service academy. This would help learn interoperability with other services and diminish some of the unneeded rivalry. I would also establish a fellowship system where students from other colleges and universities such as Yale, Harvard, Penn State, or any college that is accredited can send a student for 1 semester. They can participate fully in the military oriented activities. At least when they graduate they will have more military experience than the current president and 90% of the congress. This would do more than the pointed head's idea.
“This is among the most moronic proposals ever.”
This idea has been around for quite a long time. Some argue that closing the Academies and beefing up ROTC will produce better officers and save money. Some argue the opposite, citing the cost per student would go down if the academy enrollment would go up. Some argue closing down the academies and ROTC in favor of OCS/OTS is the way to go.
Regardless, Rick’s arguments are crappy at best.
The education is second to none; the faculty is loaded with officers who’ve “been there, done that” in the real world, unlike the professorship at most universities.
The service academies teach teamwork, leadership and accountability 24/7, not just on Thursdays and 8 weeks in the summer.
The service academies produce just as many future PhD’s, doctors, lawyers, engineers and leaders as any other school. They just have to serve their country before striking out in the civilian world.
....I went into the Army as a private and earned my commission in Officer’s Candidate School...as a Lt. I served with both ROTC and West Point Officers....they all varied in ability, but the West Pointers had all gotten more training (Ranger tabs & jump wings)than the average and had gotten combat command time in good units like the 173rd Airborne...those officers were groomed for command than the usual.
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