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Ten years later, still no answers
Waterbury Republican-American ^ | April 19, 2009 | Editorial

Posted on 04/20/2009 10:07:03 AM PDT by Graybeard58

Ten years ago today, a shocking display of violence erupted in the affluent Denver suburb of Littleton. Two Columbine High School students, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, set two powerful bombs to explode in the cafeteria. When the bombs failed to detonate, the two entered the school, heavily armed. They shot and killed a dozen students and a teacher, wounded 23 and finally took their own lives.

Americans have been trying to make sense out of what happened ever since. Sadly, they've had plenty of opportunities. No fewer than 80 such incidents have taken place since April 20, 1999, observes Denver author Dave Cullen, whose new book, "Columbine," examines the shootings and their fallout.

The nation remains poorly equipped to tamp down this hideous trend. Gun-control advocates make the most noise and offer the least helpful solutions: The degree of government intrusion, confiscation and incarceration required to keep guns away from people who want to do harm to others would render America unrecognizable. And the violence would continue. Keep in mind that the heart of the Harris-Klebold plot was not the guns but the propane bombs, which would have killed as many as 500 people instantly. The two teens intended to use their guns to pick off fleeing students and teachers after the explosions.

The point that seems to escape most people is the Columbine plot did not emerge fully formed. According FBI reports cited by Mr. Cullen, such attacks invariably follow an "evolutionary" path, "with signposts along the way." Might it have been possible to stop Harris and Klebold before their plot ever got started, simply by refusing to tolerate behaviors that preceded the massacre — the online rantings, the criminal acts, the bizarre dress and the manufacture of homemade pipe bombs, to name just a few?

In our April 22, 1999 editorial on Columbine, we singled out for praise a school administrator in Greenwich for standing up to students who, in 1997, asserted their "right" to wear vampire garb to school. The administrator, Eileen Petruzillo, said she had authority to require students "to dress within certain guidelines." She understood what many school officials still don't: that peremptorily shutting down extreme behavior can go a long way toward preventing more extreme behavior, up to and including violence.

The day Americans stop talking about chimeras such as gun control, and address the far more pressing problem of excessive tolerance for misbehaviors large and small in the schools, will be the day the frequency and probability of Columbine-style massacres will diminish.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: columbine

1 posted on 04/20/2009 10:07:04 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: LurkedLongEnough; HoosierHawk; RJL; rockinqsranch; paltz; ZirconEncrustedTweezers; OldPossum; ...

Ping to a Republican-American Editorial.

If you want on or off this list, let me know.


2 posted on 04/20/2009 10:08:30 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Selah)
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To: Graybeard58

Oh the answers are clear:

1) Disturbed punks
2) Absentee, neglectful, or just plain oblivious parents
3) A system discouraging the discipline, identification and/or removal of said punks


3 posted on 04/20/2009 10:09:16 AM PDT by relictele
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To: relictele

You forgot to mention:

Cops too afraid to do their job, standing outside, waiting for who knows what.


4 posted on 04/20/2009 10:10:56 AM PDT by G Larry (Obama's plan = "STEALING FROM THOSE WHO CREATE THE JOBS!")
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To: relictele
We should add:

4) A disarmed populace

5) A public wholly dependent on the government to come to its aid and protection

5 posted on 04/20/2009 10:12:11 AM PDT by PackerBoy (Just my opinion ....)
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To: Graybeard58

What answers?
Huh? A couple of punk kids who felt sorry for themselves killed and wounded a bunch of their classmates - thats the answer.


6 posted on 04/20/2009 10:12:23 AM PDT by svcw (There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't.)
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To: Graybeard58
... simply by refusing to tolerate behaviors that preceded the massacre — the online rantings, the criminal acts, the bizarre dress and the manufacture of homemade pipe bombs ...

It's funny that the writer then goes on to emphasize the least relevant or predictive of these behaviors: wearing unusual clothes.

7 posted on 04/20/2009 10:14:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: Graybeard58

Thanks for the ping Graybeard.

Seems the Left is deeply involved by their philosophies, and their perspectives.

Their answers to matters of this nature always seem to lean towards the taking of rights from everybody in favor of tolerance for the actions of a few.

I believe it’s why people call them IDIOTS.


8 posted on 04/20/2009 10:16:55 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...Call 'em What you Will, They ALL have Fairies Living In Their Trees.)
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To: PackerBoy

7. School systems that teach the “death” culture.


9 posted on 04/20/2009 10:17:45 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: Graybeard58

What’s not to understand?

Unpopular disaffected latchkey kids with too much money decided to get even with the world.


10 posted on 04/20/2009 10:18:57 AM PDT by nina0113 (Hugh Akston is my hero.)
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To: Tax-chick

If THEIR mothers had had as many kids as you do, those two wouldn’t have had the chance to become crazed loners - their little brothers would have narked them out in a heartbeat.

Congratulations on the next chiclet! Another month?


11 posted on 04/20/2009 10:21:49 AM PDT by nina0113 (Hugh Akston is my hero.)
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To: svcw
A couple of kids on SSRI's or coming off of SSRI's, That's the answer.

Name ONR school shooting that didn't involve SSRI's. Each shooter was either on SSRI's or had just stopped taking their meds. As far as I have been able to find out, each shooter was on SSRI's.

Now discovering WHY they were on meds, well, they are taught there is no God, they get away with "murder" already, they are taught that they have "rights" they don't have, and most of them are pu$$ies" and use the guns to get back at their detractors instead of learning to take care of themselves. There is no fulfillment in video games, their parents leave them with day care since birth and allow total strangers to "love" them,.....there are a million more, but that is our culture today.

12 posted on 04/20/2009 10:23:46 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: chuckles

ONR+ONE


13 posted on 04/20/2009 10:25:17 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: Graybeard58

Weren’t they all on antidepressants?


14 posted on 04/20/2009 10:25:29 AM PDT by GOPJ (If Obama had been king of England, the Globe wouldn't have covered the American Revolution-Graham)
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To: chuckles

Jeeze......ONR=ONE


15 posted on 04/20/2009 10:26:18 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: GOPJ
As far as I know they were. Even the guy that flew the plane into the side of a Florida skyscraper after 9-11 was on SSRI’s.
16 posted on 04/20/2009 10:28:59 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: nina0113

Yes, it’s hard to hide your gun collection and bomb-making equipment in a room with four younger brothers! Of course, a highly-evolved disaffected evil genius could enlist all the brothers, somehow ...

But I’d notice what was going on when I went in there to clean, even if the whole family wasn’t complaining about the smell. The catz are very good at finding anything at all peculiar.

Month and a half. Pat, the evil genius, says the Brother will be born on June 2.


17 posted on 04/20/2009 10:29:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: Tax-chick

So Pat’s the one you’ve got to keep an eye on...

My husband was one of four brothers who shared two bedrooms - they’d change roommates every year or so and were all very tightly bonded as a result. Kids need fraternal bonding way more than they need privacy.


18 posted on 04/20/2009 10:36:31 AM PDT by nina0113 (Hugh Akston is my hero.)
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To: Graybeard58

Kids with the mix of spoiled/ignored/medicated turn out the worst. Kids require parenting and discipline, and the schools as well need to be able to enforce discipline.


19 posted on 04/20/2009 10:43:10 AM PDT by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: chuckles

What is a SSRI?


20 posted on 04/20/2009 10:43:37 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: nina0113

Yes, Pat will turn 21 in prison doing life without parole, or invent cold fusion and FTL travel, or both. We’ll be shuffling rooms when Anoreth leaves for the Coast Guard in mid-June, which should ease tension among the Brothers. Bill and Tom (15 and 12) have been sharing a room for a *long* time!

I think kids (and adults, too) want attention, even when they say they don’t, and little brothers are better than no attention at all!


21 posted on 04/20/2009 10:44:50 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: US Navy Vet

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. A type of commonly-used antidepressant drugs which is correlated with violent episodes, especially in adolescents.


22 posted on 04/20/2009 10:46:01 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: chuckles

Is that like Ritlain. I took that in the Late 60’s Early 70’s.


23 posted on 04/20/2009 10:54:39 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: chuckles

I get that SSRI’s are drugs but what kind of drugs?


24 posted on 04/20/2009 11:02:21 AM PDT by svcw (There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't.)
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To: US Navy Vet
Google is your friend.

SSRI's are meds such as Paxil. There are about 20 of them by now. If you "Google SSRI's you will find a large controversy about whether or not they cause more harm than good. Now they have finally been forced to put warnings about murder/suicide from teens on the box.

The controversy started with their release on the market. L-Tryptophan is a natural chemical that you get from eating turkey, for example that produces serotonin that your brain uses to calm you and make you happy. We got a bad batch from overseas that killed a person so the gubmint banned ALL L-Tryptophan for sale. The same week, Big Pharma introduced Paxil and the rest is history. A large percentage of people are now on SSRI's of some sort and it alters your brain chemistry. You will have some difficulty getting off of it should you chose to. I've personally seen it with a family member and it looks like someone withdrawing from heroin. Ask a doctor, he says no way.

If I was a conspiracy theory type, I might think the government wants all of us on a drug that we can't live without so we will get Government insurance and accept anything they want to do gladly. A few school shootings will pale in comparison when the government gets 50% hooked and then we vote to cut the program. Ain't gonna happen. I think one of the Robo Cop movies had a similar plot.

Go to a doctor and tell him you have trouble sleeping, He will whip out his pad and give you an SSRI. Tell him you don't want one and he's ready to get you committed. They want you on an SSRI if your toe hurts.

25 posted on 04/20/2009 11:04:22 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: Tax-chick

No reference to

“KICKING GOD OUT OF OUR SCHOOLS AND SOCIETY DECADES EARLIER”

nope, that couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that kids took hunting firearms to school with them in previous decades and never had an incident similar to this.


26 posted on 04/20/2009 11:06:02 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: chuckles
If I was a conspiracy theory type, I might think the government wants all of us on a drug that we can't live without so we will get Government insurance and accept anything they want to do gladly.

Remember soma in Brave New World?

27 posted on 04/20/2009 11:10:47 AM PDT by nina0113 (Hugh Akston is my hero.)
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To: MrB

Yup. Why shouldn’t you shoot up the school and kill people? If you are willing to kill yourself and there is no God, wouldn’t it be better to take a lot of people with you and become famous?


28 posted on 04/20/2009 11:12:51 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: MrB

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2233560/posts

This article is interesting. There have always been psychopaths, but their prediction for shooting up schools is something of a novelty. Targets of opportunity and/or personal animosity against the institution.


29 posted on 04/20/2009 11:15:53 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: AppyPappy

Besides, the “humans” in the school are only a few thousand years from being apes anyway. It’s not as if there’s anything after this life, after all.


30 posted on 04/20/2009 11:17:15 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Tax-chick

It used to be that if boys (or girls, even, I guess) had a grievance with someone, there’d be a fistfight, and a few weeks later, the guys would be friends.

Now, the pussy.........cats on the left have decided such macho releases of aggression are not acceptable, leading to this kind of explosive evil happening.


31 posted on 04/20/2009 11:19:39 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Tax-chick

Was this the word you were looking for?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predilection


32 posted on 04/20/2009 11:21:17 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: MrB

Oh, sure enough. I guess it’s my nap time! Off to find my catz ...


33 posted on 04/20/2009 11:22:19 AM PDT by Tax-chick (What can I do to advance Right Wing Extremism today?)
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To: Graybeard58

For those who have a hard time understanding Columbine, even 10 years later, it would help them to check out the music some kids listen to these days, the video games the play and the movies they attend. Add to that a total loss of discipline at every level, and a population where nearly half of the people are on the public dole to some extent, and you’re off to a good start.


34 posted on 04/20/2009 11:55:03 AM PDT by jwparkerjr (God Bless America!)
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To: nina0113
...."Remember soma in Brave New World?"....

One of my fav's was Equalibrium. If you haven't seen it, by all means get it and watch.

35 posted on 04/20/2009 12:05:17 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: chuckles

My son was in the care of a quack who gave him Ritalin.

My ex-wife did it without my approval nor with my knowledge. Once he was on it, I was reluctant to take him off because of the withdrawl effects.

A year later, she’s telling me how wonderful he’s doing in school and in camps. Come to find out, my sweet son was having so much rage that if he hadn’t been 8 at the time, he’d have been arrested for assaulting her. He threatened to kill another student. Threatened to chop another into little pieces and threatened to slit another’s throat with a pair of scissors. She was hiding all this so I couldn’t get him back.

Now, we’ve found out all this and finally got him off that horrid drug, and he’s doing so much better. He’s calm, loving and wonderful to be with.

It’s horrid. He went from a sweet little boy to a monster. Now, he’s back.


36 posted on 04/20/2009 12:37:03 PM PDT by spacewarp (Gun control is a tight cluster grouping in the chest and one in the forehead.)
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To: MrB

Thank you, when I was in high school in the early 80’s, I had a gun rack in the back window of my truck and it usually had my shotgun and my 22 in it. I parked in school parking lot and only ONCE did I take the weapons out while at school - the parking lot attendant wanted to see what I had. He then showed me his really nice 30-06 that was in his trunk.

Funny thing, while we were showing off our weapons, two teachers and several students came over and we had a long conversation about weapons.

Of course, I was only one of about 150 trucks that had guns in the window! God I loved growing up in east Texas!


37 posted on 04/20/2009 12:38:02 PM PDT by ExTxMarine (For whatsoe'ver their sufferings were before; that change they covet makes them suffer more. -Dryden)
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To: Graybeard58
I'm sure the media will be every bit as introspective and reverent when the next anniversary of the Waco massacre comes around.

While 13 people were killed at Columbine by two loner nut cases, over 80 people were killed at Waco by the very organization that was created to safe guard us all, the government. The Columbine shooters would have been punished if they had been caught prior to their suicides. No one was ever punished for Waco.

My take on all of this - forget Columbine. Remember Waco.

38 posted on 04/20/2009 12:46:37 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (I long for the days when advertisers didn't constantly ask about the health of my genital organs.)
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To: Hardastarboard
My take on all of this - forget Columbine. Remember Waco.

Nor will I soon forget the two men chiefly responsible for it, Bill Clinton and Janet Reno.

39 posted on 04/20/2009 1:11:05 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Selah)
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To: ExTxMarine
I graduated HS in 1969 in Texas. When I was about 12-13, I rode my bicycle to the Army Navy store about 10 miles from my house and paid $20 for a Russian 7.62 Nagant rifle. Bought a box of bullets and rode my bike through downtown Texas City with the rifle over my shoulder. Not a peep from anyone. Nobody cared. In HS, we carried our guns in our cars because after school we would go to the reservoir to shoot rabbits and cans. It was a different time, different thoughts, different people. I mourn for our country.

If anyone can't figure out why "American Graffiti" or "Happy days" was such a hit, it's because we Baby Boomers miss our country and long to show our children what they have lost. I tell my daughter these stories and there is just a look of disbelief. If there was a fight, we took it to the smoking circle and you were a coward if you tried to use a weapon or have your friends help you. Gas was less than 25 cents a gallon for most of my single life and we prayed every morning even if you didn't believe. The coach or the principle gave "licks" with a 2x4 that had been run through the shop planer to about 3/4 inches. Then when you got home Dad would give it to you again so you got the message. I worked my whole life, and I mean I worked my WHOLE life. I delivered papers, cut lawns and picked up bottles for my money when in grade school. In HS I pumped gas, sacked groceries, mopped the floor at Henke and Pilot and washed cars and drove a truck for my money. My dad figured if I wasn't willing to work for it, why should he finance it? Many kids today don't get a job till they get out of college. If you want to know why college kids want Obama, they don't pay taxes, have never written a check, balanced their account, and don't have a clue about jobs and the economy.

And just on a side note, I don't believe you can respect life until you have drawn on on an animal, squeezed the trigger and watched some thing that was alive draw it's last breath. You skin it and gut it and bring it home to eat. You don't have to like it or ever hunt again, but you will know that life and death aren't things you see on a movie screen. Then the reality of shooting people is more than some lyric in a song or picture in a video game.

40 posted on 04/20/2009 1:18:26 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: AppyPappy

That’s why I have no sympathy for anyone suicidal.
If someone’s willing to murder themselves, it’s no stretch to taking out others.


41 posted on 04/20/2009 1:37:42 PM PDT by b9 ("Without gratitude, there is no happiness." ~ Theodore Dalrymple)
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To: chuckles
As far as I know they were. Even the guy that flew the plane into the side of a Florida skyscraper after 9-11 was on SSRI’s.

If each of the killers ate french fries every day - or was known drink lots of sugar laden soft drinks - the MSM and New York Times and Washington Post would NEVER stop talking about it. But antidepressants? Not a peep - to liberals those drugs are like the Bible...sacred.

42 posted on 04/20/2009 4:35:41 PM PDT by GOPJ (If Obama had been king of England, the Globe wouldn't have covered the American Revolution-Graham)
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To: GOPJ
...."Not a peep - to liberals those drugs are like the Bible...sacred."...

That's sorta why I brought in the conspiracy connection. I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I've seen plenty to support a conspiracy.

I had a family member get on an SSRI. She was like a Stepford wife. She had no emotion on anything. Wreck the car, oh well, we have insurance. Lose your purse, oh well, I needed a new one anyway. Johnny gets busted for dope, oh well, boys will be boys. It was not human. after about a year, even she noticed it and tried to get off of it. She had GREAT difficulty. Went to the doctor and he said why are you trying to get off? She told him and he said she needed them and that's why she had trouble. To make a long story short after several attempts, she tried cold turkey from a gradual decrease. The weaning off wasn't working. Crying, yelling, leaving home in the middle of the night, all kinds of bizarre behavior and she couldn't get it straight. The doctor kept telling her that is why she shouldn't quit. Her response was she wasn't like this before she started taking the SSRI so something had changed her. When she went cold turkey, she was in bed for 2 weeks. She cried, screamed, laughed, and slept for all but just a few lucid moments. When she was laughing, I asked her "what was so funny?". She said you really DON"T want to know. Then she said if I told you, I'd have to kill you. That was the first time since I knew her I was actually scared of her. She looked possessed by a demon like in the movies. after a couple of weeks she started to become functional again and is now as normal as she can be. ( She did have emotional problems before, but I was never afraid for her).

So you are either an emotional vegetable or a person that is kinda iffy. I don't know which is worse, but I do know that many people get SSRI's for just being temporarily upset at a lack of sleep or other minor complaints, and then you are hooked and can't get off. A neighbor of mine complained about his job and told the doctor he was upset that he missed a promotion. He went on Paxil. After awhile he tried to get off and now all he does is cry, ALL THE TIME. You can't hardly say anything without him starting to cry. Now he's back on and is a robot.

Now knowing all this, think about the government pushing these meds and hiding the addictive effects from even the doctors. Sounds like a prescription to pass whatever the fascist government wants and everybody is happy. I'm not saying it's not a needed med, but I KNOW it is over prescribed and not watched close enough. Just as a ball park guess, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if 60% or more is prescribed for minuscule reasons. For a real emotionally disturbed person, this could be a life changer, but I think we did pretty good before we had SSRI's. It would be easy for an out of control government to just say "Give em Paxil", and they would be forever in debt to the government. Just think about Pelosi saying "Those mean ole Republicans want to cut your meds off!" Revolution and murder would be everywhere.

43 posted on 04/20/2009 9:39:50 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: chuckles
Sounds like a prescription to pass whatever the fascist government wants and everybody is happy. I'm not saying it's not a needed med, but I KNOW it is over prescribed and not watched close enough. Just as a ball park guess, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if 60% or more is prescribed for minuscule reasons. For a real emotionally disturbed person, this could be a life changer, but I think we did pretty good before we had SSRI's.

It IS over perscribed. I don't believe the government is "behind this" but the US is becoming a Brave New World - newer than is comfortable.

Your comments about a "fascist government" aren't that far off the mark. Germans used St John's Wort - a "natural" antidepressant. I've often wondered how Germans could live with themselves emotionally knowing they had created "death factories" - and St. John's Wort is the answer. Being depressed often means we're doing something wrong - it's the body's warning. Depression serves a useful purpose. Think: conscience. And antidepressants - take that edge off. We don't suffer the guilt we should be feeling.

And you're right - sometimes people actually need the help antidepressants offer - but not whole societies. I think of the drug as "sociopath lite"....

44 posted on 04/21/2009 2:02:40 PM PDT by GOPJ (If Obama had been king of England, the Globe wouldn't have covered the American Revolution-Graham)
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To: Graybeard58

Of course there is an answer, those boys were simply bad seed.


45 posted on 04/21/2009 2:04:04 PM PDT by dfwgator (1996 2006 2008 - Good Things Come in Threes)
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