Skip to comments.The Truth About Columbine
Posted on 04/20/2009 10:58:31 AM PDT by gorilla_warrior
Ten years ago today, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold stormed their high school with bombs and guns. They killed 15 people, including themselves, and injured 23 others, some severely. The nation thought the shooters parents were mostly to blame. Adults cast a suspicious eye on high-school-age males who were bullied, played violent video games, listened to Marilyn Manson, took an interest in the macabre, enjoyed shooting guns, or dressed like Goths.
Americans had to respond somehow, but at the time they could not respond to the facts: There was little information available, and much of what was available was false. The county police department suppressed and even destroyed key documents, the confusion of the situation spawned many myths, and peoples biases spawned many more.
But now that the police documents have become public and some investigators have been willing to speak to the press, we have a basically complete account of the days events and the surrounding circumstances. Journalist Dave Cullen, whos been on the story since the beginning, pulls that account together in Columbine.
The book is a must-read for anyone who wants to understand what happened on April 20, 1999. Cullen arranges the story almost like a novel, with various storylines advancing simultaneously. His prose is clear, simple, and direct. Through the facts he presents, his own analysis, and the analyses of others, Cullen provides good answers to the two central questions: What exactly happened that day? And what made Harris and Klebold do it?
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
Were they veterans, or something? < /s>
Still no clear explanation on how they carried so many bombs around, how large they were, in any comparison to size. ie hand grenade.
Pretty impressive arsenal for two clowns.
Like some politician who views baies as punishment and won’t release hi birth certificate or school papers?
This travesty was a monument to cowardice.
Worst was the law enforcemnt yellowtails, who shrunk outside while children were being killed. The question was: What is more important, the lives of the unarmed children inside or the armed law enforcement officers outside?
They stayed outside.....waiting “for backup,” while children were murdered.
Yes Congress is full of them. Thank God the ACLU forced the closing of the asylums in the 80’s.
It’s hard to avoid psychopaths when they succeed in getting elected to the presidency.
No, they killed 13 people - then decided to be the cowards they were by taking their own lives instead of taking legal responsibility for their actions by way of being tried in a court of law.
Just a little nit-picking thing, but I would never count murderers among their victims or even as “people.” The article SHOULD read “killed 13 people and themselves...”
That’s not a “little” nit there, Ray...
At this very moment in a cemetery in Southern Denver - Chapel Hill Cemetery - they're erecting 13 crosses that I think are well known across the country, as a permanent memorial at the head of my daughter's grave. And my heart really longs to be there with my children, Bethany and her husband Don, Dana, Craig, and Mike, but it's with their blessing that I'm here today, and I appreciate that.
I realize that I'm a mere pawn in today's hearings, but I'm a willing pawn, because I dare to believe that I can make a difference. Every once in awhile, a pawn has been used to checkmate a king. I have no hidden agenda, and of course I have no political aspirations. I simply speak to you as a brokenhearted father, and I only ask that you allow your heart to hear me for the next few minutes.
Since the dawn of creation, there has been both good and evil in the hearts of men and women, and we all contain those seeds: We contain the seeds of kindness and we contain the seeds of violence. And the death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joyce Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other 11 children who died, must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used, neither was it the NCA - the National Club Association - the true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in his heart. In the days that followed the Columbine trudged, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA, I am not a hunter, I do not even own a gun, I'm not here to represent or to defend the NRA, because I don't believe they are responsible for my daughter's death, therefore I don't believe they need to be defended by me. If I believed that they had anything to do with Rachel's murder, I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy, it was a spiritual event which should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies. Much of that blame lies here in this room - much of that blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves.
I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expressed my feelings best, and it was written before I knew that I would be speaking here today, and I'd like to read that:
Men and women are three part beings: we have a body, and we have a soul, and we have a spirit ... And I believe we fail to recognize that third element, that really does need to be recognized by the legislative bodies of this country, that's been ignored for so long. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries, and we know this is a historic fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We've refused to honor God, and in doing so we opened the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that continue to erode away our personal and private liberties.
We don't need more restrictive laws. Erik and Dylan would not have been stopped by more gun laws or metal detectors. No amount of laws can stop someone who spends months of planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key, and there is a spiritual awakening that is taking place that will not be squelched. We don't need more religion, we don't need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage, we do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people's basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgement that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God.
When my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he didn't hesitate to pray in school, and I defy any law or politician to deny him that right. I challenge every young person in America and around the world to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School, prayer was brought back to our schools. Don't let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millenium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your conscience and denies your God-given right to communicate with Him.
And to those of you who would blame the NRA, I give to you a sincere challenge: dare to examine your own heart before you cast the first stone. My daughter's death will not be in vain: the young people of this country will not allow that to happen. And remember that even a pawn in a master's hand can accomplish much.
Thank you very much.
Nobles oblige ...
They dug in and formed a defensive line as if 10,000 screaming North Koreans were going to burst out of the building at any moment, machine guns blazing.
Still no clear explanation on how they carried so many bombs around, how large they were, in any comparison to size. ie hand grenade.”
And where did they store them? I’d know if my sons were making and storing pipe bombs in my house. 76 bombs would be more than obvious.
I’ve noticed with curiosity that some people can spot a psychopath pretty quickly whereas some never do.
If more were able, “Who’s Sane” wouldn’t have gotten in.
In so many cases kids get suspended or even charged with a crime for innocently taking a pocket knife or some relatively harmless weapon to school. In this case all the signs should have been obvious but they were not stopped. Unreal.
Americans are not comfortable with friendly fire deaths involving children. The Israelis are a bit more lenient in that regard.
If the gunmen has been aware that there were armed people in the building, they may have deterred by that. The Virginia Tech gunman checked the classrooms for badges before he started shotting.
We wonder as we turn our children into psychopaths with SSRIs
As part of their plan, after they stopped killing at the school, they were going to go to the Airport, hijack a jet, and fly it into a building.
Pure, unadulterated evil.
When it comes to kids I stay until I am out of bullets or blood and not that is not armchair bravado. Twice in my civilian life I have had to protect others - once people I did not even know. Mad 2, bad guys 0.
Revisionist history BS. Gardner did not leave the scene. Clowns like you should be working for CNN.
I’ve long felt this way as the only SWAT activity I saw was parade like marches to show off gear. A couple of our current warriors could have handled the incident quickly with far fewer losses.
Yes, like Ashley Smith, the 11 year old girl with a Tweety Bird keychain!
Get it right before you start calling names and throwing insults. Do not get me started on how F'ed up SWAT was that day.
The US Army taught me to press your advantage. He thought he hit the gunman in the first exchange he should pressed the attack especially since Smoker arrived at that time.
Hey here's and idea. Do not read my posts if you do not like them!!! Keep your stupid a$$ opinion to yourself since you insist on defending cops all over FR when they commit acts that cannot be defended in any logical mind.
"There's still a lot of opposition -- some criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists don't like psychopathy at all," Hare says. "I can spend the entire day going through the literature -- it's overwhelming, and unless you're semi-brain-dead you're stunned by it -- but a lot of people come out of there and say, 'So what? Psychopathy is a mythological construct.' They have political and social agendas: 'People are inherently good,' they say. 'Just give them a hug, a puppy dog, and a musical instrument and they're all going to be okay.'"
If Hare sounds a little bitter, it's because a decade ago, Correctional Service of Canada asked him to design a treatment program for psychopaths, but just after he submitted the plan in 1992, there were personnel changes at the top of CSC. The new team had a different agenda, which Hare summarizes as, "We don't believe in the badness of people." His plan sank without a trace.
Basically, it's political correctness denying the truth.
I'm also becoming increasingly convinced that a lot of post-modernism, moral relativism, and what passes for modern moral philosophy is the product of psychopaths who have never feel that anything is "just wrong", thus they promote a world view where right and wrong don't exist and nothing is truly and objectively wrong. And if the psychopaths are in leadership positions in academia, politics, and so on, they have no interest in esposing themselves to the public and every interest in denying that they exist.
I LOVE your tagline! Coy little reference to one of my favorite movies!
“The Israelis are a bit more lenient in that regard.”
And Palestinians and Muslims are even MORE lenient than the Israelis - hard to believe, isn’t it?!?
A very good point is what would have happened if these killers had been captured alive and had stood trial. I am sure there would have been a litany of liberal platitudes about how these poor boys were misunderstood and were not deserving of harsh punishment. Quite frankly had they been captured alive the most fitting punishment for them would have been execution. Fortunately they took care of that themselves.
“I’m also becoming increasingly convinced that a lot of post-modernism, moral relativism, and what passes for modern moral philosophy is the product of psychopaths who have never feel that anything is ‘just wrong’, thus they promote a world view where right and wrong don’t exist and nothing is truly and objectively wrong.”
This is in FACT the cause of the majority of the declines in America and around the world! There is no “evil” (other than the Bush administration - ask a liberal), these people are just misunderstood, maladjusted human beings that have had a hard life and need added support (read hug, puppy dog and instrument) to expose them to the “love” of the world. Forget that they beat the puppy to death with the instrument and “hugged” it till it’s innards popped - BTW, can the government send more money for additional puppies and instruments!
So, does the technical definition of insanity apply here or what?
Shortly after Columbine I remember reading an article that cited all of the then existing guns laws that had been broken in the shooting. Does anyone recall how many already existing laws were broken?
“...and not that is not armchair bravado.”
I don’t believe it is. You are a culture relic.
Every man who lived on the street where I grew up, (especially if he had a sidearm on his hip) would have gone into that building under those circumstances that day. They would not have swaggered in, shoulders swinging and eyes slitted with grim purpose, rather, they would have turned pale, their eyes would have bugged, they would have utterd “Jesus Christ”-—and then done what they had been raised to do and what the culture expected of them.
“Culture” is all. It really is.
Did he call any "shots?"
Here's from an article about a teacher who died. Notice that this teacher did more than any SWAT team member.
Born October 22, 1951 47 years old
William "Dave" Sanders was a computer and business teacher at Columbine for 25 years, and coach of the girls' basketball and softball teams. He left behind his wife, four children and five grandchildren.
His students said he was a teacher, a friend, a mentor and an inspiration. When the gunmen started firing outside the school he ran to the cafeteria and sounded the alarm. He, along with two of the school's janitors, helped get more than 100 students out of the path of danger by herding them away from the shooters. He saved untold numbers of lives that day.
By the time the gunmen arrived, the cafeteria was nearly empty thanks to him. He was in the upstairs hall trying to get students safely hidden in classrooms when he was shot from behind by Eric Harris. He was hit in the torso, head and neck. He managed to get himself into a science lab (listed as UA24 in the Columbine Report, and SCI-3 on blueprint maps of the school) where he bled to death waiting for help that 911 dispatchers told students who were helping him was coming, but never arrived.
Trying to get help up to Coach Sanders, student Deidra Kucera posted a sign in the window: "1 BLEEDING TO DEATH". The sign was ignored. Despite their attempts to save him, Dave Sanders died nearly three hours later from blood loss. His last words were reported to be: "Tell my family I love them."
Dave's daughter Angela said at his funeral: "What you did in that school on Tuesday was an amazing act of heroism. Even after you were hurt, you continued to be the brave, selfless man we all know you are."
ping to above
Same happened in NY a week ago. Cops arrived in minutes, waited and hour to go in.
Ever watch 'Cops'?
One line you hear over and over.
'..and I get to go home tonight'.
What's the point of having SWAT teams dressed like stormtroopers and then they stand around until it's deemed safe for them to enter.
We all said “If that happened back home we would have ran to our cars and grabbed our own guns.”
But that was in Nebraska, in different time.
Gees, it felt like yesterday. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are your run in the mill psychopaths. Harris and Klebold were bullies and gleefully bragged about it in their diaries.
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are proof that some people born evil like Fred Phelps, Lori Drew, Osama bin Laden/September 11 Terrorists, Adolf Hitler, and Joseph Stalin.
I believe anyone can be trained to spot a psychopath, even though they are masters of deceit. Sociopathic behavior exhibits a broad range. There are many telltale signs:
Total lack of remorse, guilt, or conscience
Refusal to accept responsibility
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Callous/lack of empathy
Poor behavioral controls
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Early behavior problems
Many short-term relationships
Sociopathy is primarily genetic, and there is no treatment. It can be spotted in young children who gleefully inflict pain on others and who laugh off any attempt to shame them for theior cruelty. The only protection against psychopaths is to avoid them at all costs. This is why the idea of “rehabilitation” of career criminals, almost all of whom are psychopaths, is out of the question. Most politicians and many lawyers exhibit psychopathic behavior.
The Clintons are a textbook example of a psychopath with a companion enabler. At Columbine, harris was the psychopath, Klebold was the enabler. Do-gooders are the psychopath’s best friends, because do-gooders are enablers who assist in facilitating mayhem and avoiding consequences.
Conscience free? Haven’t we been told for many years that there is no right or wrong, no absolutes - it’s just a matter of opinion. There was even advice from “experts” that used to be promoted in the media that parents shouldn’t pass their values on to the children but let them make up their own minds when they grew up.
One thing is for sure, this type of bizarre behavior co-incides with the liberal overturning of all of our values and concepts of reality.
I think feminism also has done much damage to the psychology of males. They have stripped males of a sense of self and special purpose in life. Throughout their formative years, young males only hear negative things about themselves. And if they have a feminist mother and clueless father, they are especially vulnerable. It is very odd, but you did not hear of these kinds of crimes in other generations.
Kind of interesting too that they got their 9mm ammunition from a fellow *trenchcoat Mafia* member Scott Fuselier. Who apparently got it from his dad.
Who, by the way, was one of the FBI investigators into the massacre. And honest, neither his son's video nor the ammo played an important role in the homicides....
But let's not talk about that. Guns are bad, right?
I was in there when it was still a crime scene, they wanted to get some ventilation going in the library and the fire alarm was holding it out. Most of the “bombs” were like oversized firecrackers. They had strikers (emery paper?) on their sleeves to light them on and throw them. There were body outlines over blood pools and placards with names on them. And goo on a shattered ceiling tile over the placard that said Harris. They burned some ammo in there.
I was there sometimes to work in the mechanical room and parked my truck by the outside door. There was a .45 in the glove box. The interior door opened into the hallway just down from the library. Shame I wasn’t there that day.
As it happened I was sitting in the school district security office working on some software issues with a Johnson Controls tech. We watched as it unfolded, on TV news and listening to the security radio traffic. After some hours and when we finished up, the JCI tech said he better go find out where his son, a student there, was at. Unfortunately, he was in the library working on homework.
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