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For gays, times a-changin' for the better
Capital Times ^ | 4/22/2009 | Dave Zweifel

Posted on 04/22/2009 4:45:48 PM PDT by SJackson

Bob Dylan's 1960s song "The Times They Are A-Changin' " was written at a time when blacks were insisting on equality, young people were rebelling against war and the status quo was being routinely challenged.

But it could have just as well been written today about another huge change in this country: the acceptance, particularly among the young, that gays should have equal rights, too.

Back then, Dylan's song came to symbolize the generational schism that gripped the country. One of the verses said it all:

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And don't criticize

What you can't understand

Your sons and your daughters

Are beyond your command

Your old road is

Rapidly agin'

Please get out of the new one

If you can't lend your hand

For the times they are a-changin'.

Indeed, the times as they relate to Americans' views of gay people are rapidly changing.

Who would have thought that the military, as recently as the early 1990s the bastion of anti-gay sentiment, would now be openly suggesting that perhaps it has been wrong?

Only a few weeks ago a Marine who served in Iraq wrote an op-ed for the New York Times pleading with President Obama to abolish the Bill Clinton-era "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which allows gays to serve in the military as long as they don't tell anyone they're gay.

Owen West pointed out that even retired Gen. Colin Powell and former Sen. Sam Nunn, the authors of "don't ask, don't tell," now both say the policy needs to be reviewed. As he noted, that's a polite way of saying they've changed their minds.

"So have many of us who wore the uniform in 1993 and supported a policy that forced some of our fellow troops to live a lie and rejected thousands who told the truth," West wrote, adding that a full 72 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan war vets were perfectly comfortable interacting with gays.

That astonishing turnabout by the military, though, pales compared to other recent events -- the unanimous decision by the Iowa Supreme Court that the state couldn't prevent gay marriage and the Vermont Legislature's action to override its governor's veto of a bill allowing gays to marry in that New England state.

What's so surprising is that the thumbs up for gay marriage didn't come from "liberal" states like California or New York, but from a heartland state supreme court not known for being liberal and a fiercely independent New England state that until the 1990s nearly always voted for Republicans, including against Franklin D. Roosevelt in each of his four presidential elections.

Here in Wisconsin less than three years ago, 59 percent of us voted to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman. In doing so we joined the vast majority of other states, which have succumbed to the culture wars promulgated primarily by the religious right and the politicians who hoped to benefit from the polarizing campaigns to marginalize gays.

Don't be surprised, though, if in the near future Wisconsin and other states decide to revisit that decision. More and more people -- another 10 percent of the population in just the past five years -- have come to understand that marriages should be between two people who love each other, and if they happen to be gay, that's no one's business but theirs. It's now estimated that 44 percent of Americans believe gays should be allowed to marry.

If the trend continues, it will be only a few years before a majority of the country comes to support marriage that includes gay couples. After all, churches that believe only men and women should marry can always refuse to marry gays, but states can -- and should -- recognize that gays can marry outside a church, just as heterosexuals have always been able to do.

For as Bob Dylan sang, the times they are a-changin' -- and for the better.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: homonaziagenda; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; postchristianamerica; queers; rejectionofthebible
Here in Wisconsin less than three years ago, 59 percent of us voted to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman. In doing so we joined the vast majority of other states, which have succumbed to the culture wars promulgated primarily by the religious right and the politicians who hoped to benefit from the polarizing campaigns to marginalize gays.

Not an issue of succumbing to a culture war, rather maintaining a culture several millenia old. And were it about the evil "religious right", President McCain, more likely President Huckabee would be in the White House. Not to worry, President Change You Can Believe In, informed by his particular Christian faith believes marriage is between a man and a woman.

1 posted on 04/22/2009 4:45:48 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

ping


2 posted on 04/22/2009 4:48:05 PM PDT by SJackson (Barack Obama went to Harvard and became an educated fool. Rep. Bobby Rush)
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To: SJackson

They will discover that

God Almighty has a different perspective

and a larger “vote”

than all of Creation put together.

BTW, folks . . .

Wonderful Christian musician Dennis Jernigan has his own story on YouTube. Worth watching.


3 posted on 04/22/2009 4:48:26 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Yup.

That whole “Sodom and Gomorrah” thing worked out real well for them...:)


4 posted on 04/22/2009 4:51:54 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.......)
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To: SJackson
Again, the attempt to paint what IS as wrong, while what's "new" is inherently better. No culture predominantly homosexual has survived, while those which encourage strong heterosexual family bonds have thrived.

Heterosexuality has proven itself (as if it needs to). Go experiment with someone else's future.

5 posted on 04/22/2009 4:53:14 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: SJackson

Our law in in our constitution so it needs 60% of votes in 60% of counties to overturn.


6 posted on 04/22/2009 4:53:17 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: SJackson

I enjoy telling people that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else to marry. They are not being discriminated against one bit in relation to marriage. It infuriates them.


7 posted on 04/22/2009 4:55:46 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: Quix

Here is Dennis’ link on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/Singoverme


8 posted on 04/22/2009 4:56:12 PM PDT by Joya (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: SJackson
"A-changin'" my foot.

Sounds like it's still the mid-1960s in Madison.

9 posted on 04/22/2009 4:59:59 PM PDT by x
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To: Mr. Blonde
I enjoy telling people that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else to marry.

Yes, that's true.

10 posted on 04/22/2009 5:00:40 PM PDT by SJackson (Barack Obama went to Harvard and became an educated fool. Rep. Bobby Rush)
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To: SJackson

What day was this written? Because I have a feeling that since that grotesque sicko known as Perez Hilton got plastered all over the tv-screens the other day, the percentage of the public that wants gays to return to the closet increased by a significant margin!


11 posted on 04/22/2009 5:03:29 PM PDT by greene66
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To: SJackson

The times they are a-changing ,all right. And normal,decent people are getting *short*-changed in the process.


12 posted on 04/22/2009 5:04:34 PM PDT by liberalism is suicide (Communism,fascism-no matter how you slice socialism, its still baloney)
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To: Salamander

LOL.

San Francisco may well have a similar experience.


13 posted on 04/22/2009 5:05:45 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Joya

Thanks.

Heading to church shortly.

LUB


14 posted on 04/22/2009 5:06:07 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Mr. Blonde

I always say the same thing. They have equal rights. A gay man or a straight man has the same right—to marry a woman. A gay or straight woman has the same right—to marry a man. Thus, equal rights.


15 posted on 04/22/2009 5:15:32 PM PDT by Huck ("He that lives on hope will die fasting"- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac)
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To: SJackson

This is such a twisted view that it is mentally repugnant. The sheer deception of equating living a lie with not revealing your sexual preferences is ridiculous just as the idea that some how one can not resist fulfilling those desires inappropriately. If one feels a great need to carry out activism in the military which is exactly what this is about. They want to do in the military what they have done in many public schools. They want to use their ugly lifestyle to curry favor and intimidate the majority who tolerates them but isn’t interested in their activism and phony latching on to the civil rights movement.

This would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious. They want to force us to not just to tolerate them as people living their own lives but they want to force us to adopt their worldview. It isn’t about religion it is about something that is just incorrect. They are dysfunctional and it wasn’t till the Homosexuals started doing most of the research on homosexuality and sexual disorders did that change. They are still as a core group largely the product of pedophilia and molestation. There is a growing population of casual or incidental homosexuality especially among young women because of the porn industry and the trivializing of sexual morals and restraint but overall the modern homosexual is still just as debased and diseased as they ever were as a group and as human beings many of them are being left with no place to turn for help once they reach the end of their self delusion. So many seek in sexual expression what they could not get through normal relationships with parents or other adults as children which explains the almost infantile ego driven need of homosexuals to be adored and to be center stage.

I don’t say this with out direct knowledge. I went to school with Arthur Warren who was killed as a direct result of his lifestyle. Sexual activists like to only see one side of the story but the sad truth about Arthur was that he was a very lonely individual who met his end at the end of a long relationship with a couple of younger boys who he had molested over a period of years having provided them drugs and alcohol. This is one reason Arthur did not achieve Matthew Sheppard status. I knew Arthur as a funny, gentle guy, but after high school he got lost and though he is responsible for his actions just as much as those who beat him and ran over him several times with a truck are responsible for what they did to him I believe that our increasingly debased culture is fueling this kind of thing.
Also the idea that because a man is a bit effeminate or a woman is a bit more masculine in manners or body shape that they must be gay is something that is becoming a self fulfilling label for many young kids who are confused enough without having their heads filled with images and ideas that they are not ready for. Yet these same individuals who claim to care about suicide of bullied teens don’t take any responsibility for these teens when they contract Aids, or through emulating in your face tactics place themselves at great risk. They set the fire and leave. They are cultural terrorists in my opinion and leave so many on a high wire without a net and no one will dare suggest the net is not there at all.


16 posted on 04/22/2009 5:39:19 PM PDT by Maelstorm (It is better to to get outside of the box than to just think outside of it.)
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To: SJackson

Dave’s gay now? LOL!

I just had a HUGE blow-up with my femi-nazi, lesiban, leftist crackpot of a sister. I guess she took offense with some remarks I made at Easter Dinner, and she’s been sending me scud-mail all week. *Rolleyes* I’m a ‘toxic person’ to her and she needs to ‘limit her exposure’ to me.

It’s truly a ‘win-win’ from MY perspective, and I told her as much...which REALLY p*ssed her off, LOL!

You know, you’d THINK now that she and her Lefty Minions are ‘in charge’ that they’d be A LOT more HAPPY. But, you just can’t make the LeftTards happy, no matter what.

I. Give. Up.


17 posted on 04/22/2009 6:16:25 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Salamander

Unfortunately, it would seem that the entire United States is headed the same way as the Cities on the Plain.


18 posted on 04/22/2009 6:19:16 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (here)
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To: Maelstorm

He says that marriages should be between two people who love each other. Well how about allowing a sister to marry her brother? Or a Father and daughter? Let’s not stop there. How about a set of twin brothers marrying, or a group marriage whereby 3 men marry 2 woman? You can see where this Pandora’s box is headed.


19 posted on 04/22/2009 6:22:27 PM PDT by Flavious_Maximus
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To: Mr. Blonde
Any Gay Man can marry any Lesbian Woman they want, and vice versa. Problem solved.
20 posted on 04/22/2009 6:24:15 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (If Hitler used a TelePrompter, we would all be speaking German...)
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To: SJackson

the backlash is comming,but it will get worse before it gets better


21 posted on 04/22/2009 6:29:12 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: SJackson

I have wondered if Obama’s policies and the whole stimulus package is and will in fact be God’s judgment on our culture’s acceptance of abortions, homosexuality and other unbiblical sexual behavior and general rejection of His moral absolutes. Perhaps the debt the next generation and the next and the next, etc., will have to be burdened with is itself the judgment for accepting a godless and pagan worldview.


22 posted on 04/22/2009 7:21:49 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: greene66
... that grotesque sicko known as Perez Hilton...

I speak as someone who does not care what happens about gay marriage...he is a sickening little faggot, isn't he?

Well, he's accomplished his mission, a week ago, 90+ % of people didn't even know his made-up name, now a majority might well have heard of him. It's all about "look at me, look at me" with the flamers, isn't it?

23 posted on 04/22/2009 7:39:40 PM PDT by hunter112 (SHRUG - Stop Hussein's Radical Utopian Gameplan!)
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To: chris_bdba
Our law in in our constitution so it needs 60% of votes in 60% of counties to overturn.

When he mentions "revisiting" this decision, I believe he was referring to judges declaring it "unconstitutional" - about the only way the homo-fascists can prevail in most instances.

24 posted on 04/22/2009 7:53:39 PM PDT by fwdude ("...a 'centrist' ... has few principles - and those are negotiable." - Don Feder)
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To: Charlespg
the backlash is comming,but it will get worse before it gets better

The problem is that when the backlash plays out, we only stop the advance - the ground gained by the enemy largely remains in their hands. Or if the homo-fascists retreat, they only retreat into a position which is still miles ahead of where they were 10 years ago. This ratchet effect isn't winning, it's static defense at best.

Winning would be democratically abolishing same-sex "marriage" in places where it is established as well as its close cousins: civil unions and domestic partnerships. Winning would be overturning Lawrence and allowing states to once again criminalize homosexual behavior according to prevailing cultural norms.

25 posted on 04/22/2009 8:05:20 PM PDT by fwdude ("...a 'centrist' ... has few principles - and those are negotiable." - Don Feder)
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To: SJackson

Times are changing for the better for homosexuals? They still account for about half of all the new cases of AIDS each year, accounted for 65% of the cases of syphilis in 2007, and have far higher suicide and drug and alcohol addiction rates.


26 posted on 04/22/2009 10:02:07 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Quix

*shrug*

Brimstone happens....:)


27 posted on 04/22/2009 10:16:44 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.......)
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To: Jack Hammer

I reckon God’s keepin’ pretty straight on whose hand is in which pocket....:)


28 posted on 04/22/2009 10:20:06 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.......)
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To: Salamander

Sigh.

True.

And I hate to see anyone suffer regardless of how well earned.


29 posted on 04/23/2009 1:27:02 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: All

Come all you young homos

Who want to get hitched,

And lesbians also,

Too long you have bitched;

You might as well suffer

like straight people do,

Get married and then

you can break up,

Yeah, you might want to try out

polygamy too,

For the crimes they are a-changin’.


30 posted on 04/23/2009 1:46:22 AM PDT by Peter ODonnell
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