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Drug Control Begets Gun Control - The violence in Mexico is caused by prohibition, not firearms.
Reason ^ | April 22, 2009 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 04/22/2009 9:36:27 PM PDT by neverdem

During his visit to Mexico last week, President Obama suggested that Americans are partly to blame for the appalling violence associated with the illegal drug trade there. "The demand for these drugs in the United States is what's helping keep these cartels in business," he said. "This war is being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States."

Obama is right that the U.S. is largely responsible for the carnage in Mexico, which claimed more than 6,000 lives last year. But the problem is neither the drugs Americans buy nor the guns they sell; it's the war on drugs our government insists the rest of the world help it fight. Instead of acknowledging the failure of drug control, the Obama administration is using it as an excuse for an equally vain attempt at gun control.

"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States," Obama claimed last week, repeating a favorite factoid of politicians who believe American gun rights endanger our southern neighbor's security. The claim has been parroted by many news organizations, including ABC, which used it in a 2008 story that suggested the sort of policy changes the number is meant to encourage. The story, which asked if "the Second Amendment [is] to blame" for "arming Mexican drug gangs," quoted a federal official who said, "It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen, so this country is where they come."

But as Fox News and Factcheck.org have shown, the percentage cited by the president greatly exaggerates the share of guns used by Mexican criminals that were bought in the United States. Fox estimates it's less than a fifth, while Factcheck.org says it may be more like a third.

If the guns used by Mexican drug traffickers do not mainly come from gun dealers in the U.S., where do they come from? Many of the weapons are stolen from the Mexican military and police, often by deserters; some are smuggled over the border from Guatemala; others come from China by way of Africa or Latin America. Russian gun traffickers do a booming business in Mexico.

Given these alternatives, making it harder for Americans to buy guns, in the hope of preventing straw buyers from supplying weapons to smugglers, is not likely to stop Mexican gangsters from arming themselves. The persistence of the drug traffickers' main business, which consists of transporting and selling products that are entirely illegal on both sides of the border, should give pause to those who think they can block the flow of guns to the cartels.

The futile effort to stop Americans from consuming politically incorrect intoxicants is the real source of the violence in Mexico, since prohibition creates a market with artificially high prices and hands it over to criminals. "Because of the enormous profit potential," two senior federal law enforcement officials told(pdf) the Senate Judiciary Committee last month, "violence has always been associated with the Mexican drug trade as criminal syndicates seek to control this lucrative endeavor."

The more the government cracks down on the black market it created, the more violence it fosters, since intensified enforcement provokes confrontations with the police and encourages fighting between rival gangs over market opportunities created by arrests or deaths. "If the drug effort were failing," an unnamed "senior U.S. official" told The Wall Street Journal in February, "there would be no violence."

Perhaps it is time to redefine failure. Three former Latin American presidents, including Mexico's Ernesto Zedillo, recently noted(pdf) that "we are farther than ever from the announced goal of eradicating drugs." The attempt to achieve that impossible dream, they observed, has led to "a rise in organized crime," "the corruption of public servants," "the criminalization of politics and the politicization of crime," and "a growth in unacceptable levels of drug-related violence."

Instead of importing Mexico's prohibitionist approach to guns, we should stop exporting our prohibitionist approach to drugs.

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason and a nationally syndicated columnist.

© Copyright 2009 by Creators Syndicate Inc.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; amnesty; banglist; drugwarconsequences; immigration; libertarian; libertarians; medicalmarijuana; mexico; thankprohibition; trollsonparade; wod; wosd

1 posted on 04/22/2009 9:36:28 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Lautenberg renews push to shut gun show 'loophole'

Napolitano: Illustrating Absurdity

Card Check Is Dead - Some Democrats only care about labor's money. (Barf alert!)

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll Obama's Presidential Approval Index of +2 is within the margin of error already!

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

2 posted on 04/22/2009 10:00:16 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


3 posted on 04/22/2009 10:01:29 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: neverdem

George Santayana summed up the situation very well when he talked about the lessons of history. I don’t use or approve of drug use, but it seems to me that our “cure” has proven worse than the disease. As long as that crap brings huge profits, the people who smuggle and peddle it, with all the attendant violence and corruption will be there.


4 posted on 04/22/2009 10:10:56 PM PDT by VR-21 (Think it's time we stop, Hey what's that sound.....)
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To: neverdem

Mexico needs to adopt the 2nd Amendment into their constitution and declare open season on the drug cartels.

That problem would cease in a heartbeat.


5 posted on 04/22/2009 10:18:20 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: neverdem

Legalizing such drugs will have the effect of opening season on dealers and addicts, who commit other crimes whether the drugs are legal or not. They are no better than animal pests.

Sure. Go ahead. Just don’t cry, when they are providing light for your streets.

There were drug problems during the earlier part of the last Century, and those were dealt with by our better recent ancestors with tougher measures and less tolerance. ...two or three decades essentially clean.


6 posted on 04/22/2009 10:21:58 PM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: neverdem

http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/


7 posted on 04/22/2009 10:25:47 PM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: neverdem

Sullum sounds like an old hippie who wants cheap fixes.

Perhaps he is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

He writes for “Reason”? In what world?


8 posted on 04/22/2009 10:39:23 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: familyop
There were drug problems during the earlier part of the last Century, and those were dealt with by our better recent ancestors with tougher measures and less tolerance. ...two or three decades essentially clean.

What are you talking about? Drugs were legal in the US from colonial times until the early 1900s. According to the usdoj's website, we have worse addiction now than in 1900:

"By 1900, about one American in 200 was either a cocaine or opium addict." [1 in 200 = 0.5%]

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/demand/speakout/06so.htm

_______________________________________

"There were an estimated 980,000 hardcore heroin addicts in the United States in 1999, 50 percent more than the estimated 630,000 hardcore addicts in 1992."

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/794/heroin.htm

"Among those using cocaine in the United States during 2000, 3.6 million were hardcore users who spent more than $36 billion on the drug in that year."

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/794/cocaine.htm

_______________________________

The US population in 2000 was about 280,000,000. So the combined addiction rate was about 1.6% in 2000 vs 0.5% in 1900.

9 posted on 04/22/2009 10:56:07 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
"By 1900, about one American in 200 was either a cocaine or opium addict."

You didn't cover the reaction to that problem or the 1930s through the 1950s. You didn't cover the lynchings of the gangsters that spurred the feds to go to work.


10 posted on 04/22/2009 11:07:18 PM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: Ken H

At the beginning of the Great Depression, there was a lot of public resentment against the importation of cheap Mexican labor, BTW. But as of 1931, 29 states had outlawed marijuana.


11 posted on 04/22/2009 11:13:33 PM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: familyop
I wasn't aware that pharmacists and other legal outlets for drugs sales in the early 20th century were targets of lynchings.

I thought drug killings began with drug prohibition.

12 posted on 04/22/2009 11:26:25 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Windflier

...RRRReal good idea. Anyone that “looks” like a dealer or user, kill em’ and then ask questions???


13 posted on 04/23/2009 4:23:50 AM PDT by gargoyle (It's a good day to die for this Nations Freedom.)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
Prohibition does not work. Never has. Never will. Our own Federal government saw this first-hand with the Constitutional amendment against alcohol and it's repeal.

So why continue to pursue it? Why ban some drugs, some guns, some anything... ? Because the conflict it causes gives the government an excuse to build its bureaucracy, its centralized control, and its ever-growing militarization of police. To what good end? There is none. Ungood ends, on the other hand...

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

14 posted on 04/23/2009 5:49:31 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower; Jack Black
So why continue to pursue it? Why ban some drugs, some guns, some anything... ? Because the conflict it causes gives the government an excuse to build its bureaucracy, its centralized control, and its ever-growing militarization of police. To what good end? There is none. Ungood ends, on the other hand...

I'll let Patrick Henry answer that...from his 'give me liberty' rant...

*********************************

"...for my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth -- to know the worst and to provide for it. I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House?

Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation -- the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motives for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies?

No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer on the subject? Nothing..."

*****************************************

local podunk leos are now loaded out with all the latest paramilitary gadgets for use against the civilian population, and do so regularly across the country...

the WOsD really is a simple war on freedom, one that has been declared and actively fought for a long long time...

15 posted on 04/23/2009 6:23:39 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: Gilbo_3

Our tax dollars at work.


16 posted on 04/23/2009 6:39:34 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Windflier

We could take 10,000-20,000% profit out of drugs by ending the unConstitutional Drug War on top of it.


17 posted on 04/23/2009 8:13:58 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Joe Brower

Be Ever Vigilant!


18 posted on 04/23/2009 8:31:00 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Dead Corpse
We could take 10,000-20,000% profit out of drugs by ending the unConstitutional Drug War on top of it.

It's no different than the Prohibition era, when the sale of illegal booze fueled the rise of organized crime in America.

De-criminalize drugs and poof! There go all the illegal profits and the organized crime industry that exists solely for those profits.

19 posted on 04/23/2009 8:46:36 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: gargoyle
Anyone that “looks” like a dealer or user, kill em’ and then ask questions???

You dubbed that in. I never said that.

20 posted on 04/23/2009 8:48:08 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
You never hear of Jack Daniel's distributors in firefights with the Jim Beam guys...

Or Marlboro packagers using hitmen to take out Camel executives. Although, with all the taxes on smokes these days, I may take up bootlegging as the profit margins are getting tempting and I live in a border State.

21 posted on 04/23/2009 8:51:42 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Ken H; familyop
I wasn't aware that pharmacists and other legal outlets for drugs sales in the early 20th century were targets of lynchings. I thought drug killings began with drug prohibition.

Some people will never get it. There sense of moral outrage over "legal" drugs is such that no matter what the facts are they do not want to see them legalized. I would even say that some even try to change history in order to strengthen their arguments against legalizing some drugs. MJ and Cocaine need to be legalized if nothing else.

Prohibition should have taught everyone all they need to know about making a substance illegal, it merely increases demand for it and makes it profitable for criminals to deal in it, hence the raging crime rate involving bootlegging in the 1920s and 1930s until prohibition was lifted.

The reason gangs are such a problem now can be traced directly to the idiotic war on drugs. Drugs finance gangs, gangs used to be idiots running around with chains, razor blades in potatoes and zip guns, now they are well armed and their numbers are increasing because of the money to be made.

The cure is the same cure they had for prohibition, I.E.:lift the ban, legalize them and take the money out of them, gangs will die, drug cartels will dry up, the violence that is part of dealing drugs will also decrease, rapidly.

22 posted on 04/23/2009 9:02:17 AM PDT by calex59
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To: neverdem; Joe Brower

How dare you argue emotion with facts? Don’t you know American citizens are giving Mexican cartels their own arms like they did the British in WWII?

/heavy sarcasm


23 posted on 04/23/2009 9:09:45 AM PDT by wastedyears (Iron Maiden's gonna get ya, no matter how far!)
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To: Dead Corpse
...with all the taxes on smokes these days, I may take up bootlegging

The government has just encouraged an expansion of the black market in tobacco with these onerous new taxes.

Soon enough, the drug dealers are going to realize that there's a lot of money to be made in tobacco, too.

24 posted on 04/23/2009 9:18:45 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

...”You dubbed that in. I never said that.” Yer right...

...”That problem would cease in a heartbeat.” Surely you have no problem explaining that...


25 posted on 04/23/2009 9:28:48 AM PDT by gargoyle (It's a good day to die for this Nations Freedom.)
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To: gargoyle

G, the people of that country are being terrorized and slaughtered by a home-grown criminal industry that is as ruthless and barbaric as Al Qaeda or the Taliban.

Their police agencies and their government have been infiltrated by the cartels. Hundreds of individual police officers have been caught aiding and abetting the cartels. Many powerful public officials who were a threat to the cartels have been assassinated by them.

The citizens are essentially disarmed, as there is no right to keep and bear arms in their national constitution. They’re sitting ducks for easy murder and atrocities.

What do you want these people to do about it?


26 posted on 04/23/2009 9:48:38 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier; Dead Corpse
actually the el cheapo brand I WAS smokin went up 50% overnight, from 20 to 30 bucks a carton...

Ive decided high time to quit, so am in the final throes of my love affair with the cigg demon...

meanwhile, that 50% rise in price, for a 'legal' commodity just upped the ante on truck hijackings from coast to coast...afterall, if you get caught with a van full of smokes, it aint 'illegal' so the one crime of jackin it will be more attractive than the multiple 'crimes' of possession/dealing 'some drugs'...

if you decide to start botleggin, I would suggest breedin dogs as well, youll prolly go thru a bunch of em with the batfags roamin the countryside...

27 posted on 04/23/2009 9:49:48 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: VR-21
We insist on building and expanded a system that has failed and will continue fail as long as it operates on the idea of prohibition.

By trying a different approach we could take away the profit incentive in illegal trafficking. Anybody that has had any training in fire fighting, know about the fire triangle(fuel, air and heat) Take away one of the sides of the triangle and the fire is out. In this case the triangle would be supply, profit and demand. Take away demand from illegal drug cartels and they are screwed.

(VR-21 as in Carrier Onboard Delivery?)

28 posted on 04/23/2009 10:22:54 AM PDT by oyez (To the extent veterans read it as an accusation -- and apology is owed(i.e. not given))
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To: oyez
"By trying a different approach we could take away the profit incentive in illegal trafficking."

I agree. There's a fear among people in the country that legalizing some of this will lead to worse levels of abuse and addiction, but I don't believe that there's any empirical data to support it. Levels of addiction were lower when much of it was legal than it has been in recent decades. All we have accomplished (in addition to the corruption of our society, heavy handed law enforcement and unprecedented levels of surveillance of citizens) is making the scum of the earth rich.

Just yesterday I read in an FR thread that the Peruvian marxist terror organization "Sendero Luminoso." which killed tens of thousands in the 80's is having a resurgence. This group and other criminal/communist insurgencies (like Columbia's FALN) in Latin American are primarily funded by drug profits. It's a very complex issue, but like I said, I think the cure has proven to be worse for our country than the disease.

With regard to my FR name, VR-21 was a Fleet Tactical Support squadron that operated C118's (R6D's) and C-130's. In my time (72-75) COD was done primarily by VC squadrons operating S2's.

29 posted on 04/23/2009 11:17:22 AM PDT by VR-21 (Think it's time we stop, Hey what's that sound.....)
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To: neverdem; Joe Brower
Drug Control Begets Gun Control

To what good end?


Prohibition was introduced as a fraud; it has been nursed as a fraud. It is wrapped in the livery of Heaven, but it comes to serve the devil. It comes to regulate by law our appetites and our daily lives. It comes to tear down liberty and build up fanaticism, hypocrisy, and intolerance. It comes to confiscate by legislative decree the property of many of our fellow citizens. It comes to send spies, detectives, and informers into our homes; to have us arrested and carried before courts and condemned to fines and imprisonments. It comes to dissipate the sunlight of happiness, peace, and prosperity in which we are now living and to fill our land with alienations, estrangements, and bitterness. It comes to bring us evil - only evil - and that continually. Let us rise in our might as one and overwhelm it with such indignation that we shall never hear of it again as long as grass grows and water runs.
Roger Q. Mills


30 posted on 04/23/2009 3:29:26 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Windflier

...Was agreed with yer premise, but not sure of the motive...

..I agree with all yer points. US citizens have that right, the constitution and the rule of law, I believe in life, liberty and property for all, and, I say to all, defend that above all, it’s not for the state to take it away...

...If and when they try to take that away, I will become an outlaw...


31 posted on 04/23/2009 5:35:36 PM PDT by gargoyle (It's a good day to die for this Nations Freedom.)
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To: gargoyle
...it’s not for the state to take it away... If and when they try to take that away, I will become an outlaw...

You'll be in the good company of millions if it ever comes to that. Bet on it.

32 posted on 04/23/2009 6:48:48 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: neverdem

There is no “war on drugs.” That’s what’s so disgusting. If there were a war on drugs, all of the dopers would be dead. The world would be a better place then.


33 posted on 04/23/2009 10:22:23 PM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: familyop

How would all the “dopers” be dead?


34 posted on 04/24/2009 7:59:12 AM PDT by Nate505
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