Scientists: Incest Doomed European Royal Dynasty

FOX News ^ | April 16, 2009 | Andrea Thompson

[null and void]

She was crazy as an outhouse rat like you say, and what woman isn’t?
Least she wasn’t a two bagger.

And then there's coyote ugly...

[null and void]

Thanks, Mr. President...

[wolfcreek]

I prefer to call it *history you didn’t get taught in school.*

[afraidfortherepublic]

There was plenty of inbreeding in the early days of this country and it hasn’t impaired our fertility, or our minds — at least so you can notice. It kept the land in the family. It was legal for 1st cousins to marry for years in most states — still is, as far as I know. I have first and 2nd cousin marriages in both sides of my family which makes me a cousin, in some degree with my mother, as well as with my own children! I’m triple cousins with some people on my mother’s side. I’ve never bother to figure out my father’s side. All of these cousin marriages took place in the late 1700s and 1800s.

It was the Catholic Church that first imposed the strictures against 1st cousin and uncle and niece marriages. That extended to in laws too, as well as Godparents and Godchildren.

I believe that is where Henry XIII first got crosswise with the Pope. Catherine of Aragon had been his older brother’s wife. Henry got a special dispensation to marry her shortly after his brother died, and then about 17 years later asked to divorce her, because she never produced a male heir.

When he asked the Pope for an annulment, he used the argument that Katherine and his marriage was really illegitimate because of her previous marriage to his blood relative — that they really were in a brother/sister relationship. I’m guessing that the Pope had just about enough of Henry and he refused. Thus, the Anglican Church was founded. Then Henry divorced Katherine and went through 4 more wives in short order — some of them in less than a year. Only his 6th wife survived him, and she did not take any guff from him.

I read a time line recently and I was amazed at how long his first marriage was and how short his subsequent marriages were.

[uglybiker]

It's still BS.

Just like everything else on that site.

[wolfcreek]

My grand father and great grand father were Masons.

For some reason, I was never asked to join. Too wild as a youngster, I guees?

[uglybiker]

You’re the one who has to ask.

[Ole Okie]

Queen Mary I (daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon) married her first cousin, Philip II of Spain

Good old Bloody Mary.

Probably a good thing.

[Verginius Rufus]

Catherine had been married to Henry VIII's older brother, but claimed that the marriage had never been consummated. (Henry presumably knew whether she was a virgin when they were married, but it may not have been in his interest to tell the truth.) Henry used verses from the Old Testament about not having relations with one's brother's wife--but she was his brother's widow and ancient Israelite law required a widow to marry her husband's brother if she had no sons by him (cf. the story of Onan in Genesis).

[wolfcreek]

“You’re the one who has to ask.”

I'd like to know how a young man is suppose to know that? Dreams, premonitions?

Anyway, it's a little late now. He's been dead for 10 years and one of his Mason friends took his Masonic ring and Fez. (sp)

[afraidfortherepublic]

Catherine had been married to Henry VIII's older brother, but claimed that the marriage had never been consummated. (Henry presumably knew whether she was a virgin when they were married, but it may not have been in his interest to tell the truth.) Henry used verses from the Old Testament about not having relations with one's brother's wife--but she was his brother's widow and ancient Israelite law required a widow to marry her husband's brother if she had no sons by him (cf. the story of Onan in Genesis).

My earlier comment was really a little off topic, since this thread was about marrying cousins, not sisters in law.

All you state is true, but I was struck with the time line of Henry's marriages. Henry apparently was content with Katherine as his wife for nearly 17 years. Of course the lack of a male heir was problematic. He dumped Katherine for Anne Boelyn, executed her in about 2 years, and each subsequent marriage lasted between one and 2 years. I had never realized before how long the first marriage was and how short the subsequent marriages were.

I once had a friend who discovered her husband was cheating on her. She proclaimed (privately) that divorce was out of the question because she "knew that she'd just marry the same type of man again." She kept the family together and held his feet to the fire for the rest of his life.

What is interesting is that Henry didn't tire of Katherine until it was convenient for him to do so -- SEVENTEEN years later. She was probably getting a little long in the tooth by then too because she was older than Henry. But, at least she kept her head and married again, if I remember correctly.

[Verginius Rufus]

Ann Boleyn was executed for adultery (which was treason because it was against the king) but may have been innocent. Catherine of Aragon was above reproach--the king couldn't have accused her of adultery. If she had produced a son who had lived, she would have remained the queen (I think there were male children who died young--at least there is a line to that effect in A Man for All Seasons).

Catherine never remarried--she considered her marriage to Henry to be valid and as a devout Catholic did not consider herself free to marry again when he dumped her. I think she had died before Henry married his third wife, Jane Seymour.