Skip to comments.Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear
Posted on 04/25/2009 6:05:34 AM PDT by frankenMonkey
The arrest of an undocumented immigrant returning last week from his LDS mission has sparked discussion at the highest levels of the church about how to limit such exposure in the future.
"With the known realization that those risks exist, then we want to do better, or at least learn more," LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, said Friday during an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune . "We want to be more precise, if we can, about how to help, how to make [a mission] the calmest, most spiritually rewarding experience for everybody." Early last week, a missionary was detained at the Cincinnati airport for "lacking necessary documentation to board his flight home," according to Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman. That triggered fears in the undocumented LDS community in Utah, and already prompted a change in how one Utah missionary returned home.
The young man, a Salt Lake Valley resident, completed a mission in Oklahoma and was scheduled to return home two days after church leaders heard of the unrelated arrest in Ohio. The mission president contacted local Utah church leaders, and it was decided the missionary's uncle would drive out to Oklahoma to bring the missionary home, which he did.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
They even had Sen. Bennett of Utah sneak into law a provision that "volunteer" work by illegals is... not illegal.
And the concern from church leaders is not about illegals and missions, but how to avoid publicity about the practice.
Aiding and abetting.
As a member of the LDS Church, this article is most perplexing to me. I know the Church to be one which is law abiding. Indeed, we have an Article of Faith that even tells us to do just that: “honor and sustain the law”. We do not bring in new members, for instance, who are living together and are not married. I can only think that illegals who go on missions must have been “called” to do so by local leaders who simply are not in tune with the law. I would think that every effort should be made to make an illegal, legal, before being called on a mission.
The way that education is failing in our country could mean that reading a news story like that one is more trouble than it's worth for some people.
Meanwhile arriving at a solution or consensus (or even attempting to improve social problems) is impossible.
I do delve into matters of faith and religion and I sense chaotic -- and often evil -- forces behind much of the nonsense in our country these days. Its been said before by freepers but black is white, up is down, etc. What a mess!
Another recent example of our so-called representatives failure to address illegal immigration is the remark (Pelosi?) about it being a civil matter, not a criminal one. BS meter got pegged on that one. Gotta stop now.
Ping to read later
Blatantly admitting to circumventing the law?
What happened to the 12th "Article of Faith", the creed of the LDS church: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."
One really has to read the whole article to get the big picture.
How is it “honor and sustain the law” when the lds knowing are sending illegals on these mission trips?
The law is for the little people.
The scum don't care about your, they only care about themselves and what they believe, same as the catholics.
This is why I have no part in organized religion. Every large religious organization is riddled with corruption. What a way to get away with immoral behavior if you are doing it under the color of authority from God.
Actually, a more truthful version of the 12th Article of Faith reads:
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law, unless the law of the land violates the law of God as dictated by the President of the Church, such as in prohibiting the marrying of more than one woman.The events listed in this article are in perfect harmony with this revised cannon.
As an active Mormon, this bothers me tremendously. We Mormons are supposed to uphold the law of the land and be honest in all our dealings. For my church to condone this is outrageous!
I know all about the “for the greater good” arguments and this won’t work - they should’ve insisted that the young man get his immigration status LEGALIZED before letting him go on a mission within the US. Otherwise, they should’ve told him he should go back to his own country and serve from there.
Well, for once I agree with you.
And to rob the estates of little old ladies!!!
Marking my calendar. ;)
This is a real quandary for Christians: We are called to help our brothers -without asking WHO that is!
I want people here as legal citizens to be helped FIRST - that’s my human part. Anyone here illegally HAS broken the law.
I really do hope the illegals “boycott” the census - then the skewing of voting disticts won’t happen.
There you go again - just can’t help bashing the Mormons.
Just open your eyes and see what’s going on in the world, especially in the United States. Our 12th Article of Faith isn’t a blind statement - German Mormons didn’t use it as an excuse to exterminate the Jews despite Hitler’s extermination order was the “law of the land.”
Gay marriage is now legal in many jurisdictions - as the attacks on my church due to its involvement in Proposition 8 shows - we’re definitely on the unpopolar side.
It’s been legal in Canada for many years - have you ever heard of a gay marriage being performed in an LDS temple or chapel? Of course not.
The article also said: ...already prompted a change in how one Utah missionary returned home.
Since Marion G. Romney's running of the LDS missionary enterprise as a member of the First Presidency, usually LDS missionary level is governed at the highest levels. So do we have the highest hierarchical levels coordinating very lower-level travel decisions merely to circumvent being caught by law enforcement officials?
If the LDS Church sees something wrong with immigration policies and is advocating massive change, I supposed it could declare itself a "sanctuary church" and openly seek such change. But to claim "we honor and sustain the law" while dishonoring and objecting to the law is deceitful and hypocritical.
The key question is: Will grassroots LDS speak up and let their voices be heard? (Or will they think, "Well, I don't want to jeopardize my standing in the church..." or "I don't want to be seen as not sustaining my prophet and general authorities..."
Zakeet is simply a Mormon Hater. Mormons are not polygamists. Thanks for calling him out on this.
Certainly this is not “honoring and sustaining the law” and as I mentioned, this must have been a situation created by local leaders and not the Church itself. Our Church is very conscious of its image and of doing the right thing. When things like this happen, it allows Mormon Haters to burst forth and to join with those who are conscious of our border problem, such as me. Since I have been subjected to bigotry most of my life, this is not a comfortable position to be in. Trust me, however, this problem will be cleaned up soon. The LDS Church is not a Sanctuary Church.
The whole pro-illegal immigrant movement is solely about the selfishness of its proponents. And that includes some churches.
The article quotes various church leaders in SLC, so it appears to be known and approved at the top. The article is from the Tribune, however, an anti-LDS rag.
Better that he be a missionary "down home" than that he cower in fear of being picked up in Cincinatti eh!
What is the missionary’s position on this?
Only way to be an immigrant, in fact, is to have an immigration visa. Otherwise you are just another foreign visitor whose purpose is to leave her and go back home.
According to my sources:
A non-citizen that is eligible to join the military must meet certain requirements: (1) Have an Alien Registration Receipt Card (stamped I-94 or I-551 Green card/INS Form 1-551), (2) Have a bona fide residence established, and (3) Have established a record of the U.S. as their home.
Well, finally the Mormon and Catholic heirachy have something in common......aiding and abetting illegal aliens.
As I understand it, the Catholics are up-front about it, providing sanctuaries. And if the Catholic creed expressly states "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." I am unaware of it.
#1, isn't it to automatically label all followers of Christian sects as apostate sects;
to label all their professing believers "corrupt";
all their creeds "an abomination" before the Lord [Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-20]
-- isn't that intolerably "bigoted?"
#2, If somebody is wrong re: as to accuse others of being "hate-filled" when they aren't, doesn't that come closer to "hate" than to "love?"
Our Church is very conscious of its image and of doing the right thing. When things like this happen...
Did you mean when things like this happen -- or when things like this are FOUND OUT? (Especially in light of post #15?)
AS a point of history, you might want to examine the case of
poor Helmuth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener)
Quote for the time
“First, we killl all the Jews, then we start with the Mormons...”
In that, they were not unlike the Americans who seem to enjoy killing mormons....
History is only maliable to the observer.
“In light of Post # 15”:
The Mormon Church is comprised of volunteers. Nearly every member has a “calling”. Mine is to serve as an Employment Specialist in assisting members and non members find jobs. I have never knowingly placed an illegal in any position. Further, I live in Phoenix and our construction industry is struggling. Illegals are not sucking up the jobs here.
From the article: That triggered fears in the undocumented LDS community in Utah, and already prompted a change in how one Utah missionary returned home. The young man, a Salt Lake Valley resident, completed a mission in Oklahoma and was scheduled to return home two days after church leaders heard of the unrelated arrest in Ohio. The mission president contacted local Utah church leaders, and it was decided the missionary’s uncle would drive out to Oklahoma to bring the missionary home, which he did.
“The travel department of the church has to rethink everything. Things have changed, and they need a whole new policy,” said a local church official who was aware of the situation. “With ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] hitting them at the bus terminals and airports, this opens a whole new discussion. I don’t know how many undocumented immigrants we have serving missions, but I’m sure this is going to repeat itself.”
LDS Church leaders have had evolving policies on how to keep undocumented missionaries safe. But this is the first time Holland has heard of a missionary being arrested by immigration officials while serving.
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So now they are aiding and abetting criminals? What happend to “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.” (12th Article of Faith).
The missionaries are breaking the law by being here illegally.
IF a potential missionary were continuing to break ANY OTHER law then they would not be considered “worthy” to go on a mission.
ok, but SLC signs off on all mission calls. Why is SLC not using the “spirit of discernment”?
Real easy way to stop this. Require a SSN on the mission call forms.
Mormons are not polygamists
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Well, not ANYMORE. At least in this life.
The LDS Church is not a Sanctuary Church.
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Apparently their Mission policies show otherwise.
What utter hogwash!
The quote First, we killl all the Jews, then we start with the Mormons... was uttered by a MORMON....One of Hübener's local church leaders, Otto Berndt, was sympathetic to Hübener, and was suspected of having assisted and encouraged the boy. Berndt was questioned and released with an ominous warning: "after Jews, Mormons will be next." From the link you posted
Your other statement is also double utter hogwash, "In that, they were not unlike the Americans who seem to enjoy killing mormons....
There are NO "Americans killing mormons", and there is history of mormons killing Americans at Mountain Meadows.
Some folks take the "poor persecuted mormons" theme 'way too far.
I remind you of my earlier post, ""[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state
' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."
- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler, The Fuhrers New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich, Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
Wait is that a way to avoid answering questions and concerns? Nah.
Excellent point. I had a friend who served an LDS mission to Germany shortly after WWII and told me that there was quite a bit of opposition because many Germans perceived the LDS as being “in league” with the Nazis.
Some have no other defense than to play the “victim card”.
You semed to have missed the bit before that (Huans Mill, for example) - so, please, go easy o the hogwash claims.
It is an established historical fact that US Military personnel (State Sponsered Milita) did, in fact, kill numerous mormans, livestock and so on. And from the period reports, relished the process.
When stationed in the West - I was struck that the history of the Intermountain West is insperable for the lds saga.
I enjoy studing these folks & their activities in the West from a historical or culture perpective. German history, I’m not so keen on.
You, OTOH, seemed to be consumed by an emotion (I noticed all the caps & bold print) that I cannot fathom.
Believe as you will, as will I - it is America after all.
I live in an area with little if any influence from any church - you may not be so lucky. perhaps that is the source of your ire..
THis non-conversation is over. Thanks for the reply tho.
Folks who’ve been on this list for any length of time know that this is probably the first time anything like this has been reported here.
We’ve had illegals harbored by churches and illegals given aid by church groups - I’ve never heard, though, of churches wherein illegal aliens carry out church business under church protection/sanction.
No, a “missionary” wasn’t arrested. An “illegal immigrant” was arrested.
The word “missionary” comes from the root word mission.
The brand of religion is immaterial if one is using the color of religion to create sanctuary as the real mission.
One instance isn’t proof of a massive problem. But if there are many doing this, then that is a different problem.
Any—ANY—faith that condones wholesale breach of moral law even/ESPECIALLY for ‘church work’ is not righteous.
In the first place, being in the US illegally is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor. No different than a parking ticket or speeding ticket.
Secondly there is no law against aiding an illegal who is already in the US.
Thirdly the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” Thus His church must treat all alike, whether citizen or not.
In the first place, being in the US illegally is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor.
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Sorry, you are incorrect. Both felonies and MISDEMEANORS are crimes (verified this with my husband the lawyer).
And why don’t the LDS go back to the policy of requiring they serve a mission from their home country? It used to be that if you were here illegally, then you had to go home for a period of time and serve from there.
Again, if a potential missionary was guilty of ANY OTHER CRIME then they would not be considered “worthy” to serve.