Skip to comments.Vanity: KC gun show, request for help/info
Posted on 04/25/2009 1:36:34 PM PDT by wafflehouse
Today and tomorrow, theres a pretty cool gun show going on here in Kansas City. I was thinking of buying an AR-15, but there are apparently a lot of options. What is the difference, CMMG, DPMS, Olympic, Bushmaster, Colt? Is there anything specific I should look for while comparing these? I was thinking of the .223 chambered variant because there is at least some of that ammo available here. CMMG, DPMS and Olympic are about the same, right at a grand.. Bushmaster is about 1200-1400 and Colt is just straight out of my price range, 1600-2000. Any helpful advice on how to pick the best weapon would be greatly appreciated. Are there magazine capacity restrictions or any legal issues I should be aware of? I dont know a lot about rifles. Im an army veteran though, so I have put quite a few rounds through an M-16. There is just no ammo available for handguns around here on a constant basis or I might get something in addition to the .380 Bersa I have now. There are some cheap shotguns but I have never shot one before, and dont know anything about them.
Some are chambered for .223 and 5.56.. can you buy military 5.56 for these?
Nothing like buying on the hype side, that way you get the best deal!!!!
Probably go with Bushmaster.
Here is another nice choice in .308:
You better be first in line when the doors open; from what I’ve seen at a couple of shows the AR-15s are ALL gone within ten minutes.
Actually, based on the gun shows I’ve been to lately, you are better off buying from a local dealer or online.
Boy are you gonna “PAY”
An example, I have a reissue of a Colt 1911 (earlier model) that I paid about $950 for. I've been thinking about another one and a store I've visited frequently had one for sale about $985 three years after I bought mine.
At the local gun show, I saw one for 'sale' at $1300. You tell me. These show hawkers are out to make a quick buck. And believe you me, the local population was out in sucker town that day (Sunday)....people buying up guns/ammo at outrageous prices.....
Bide your time, visit a few long term gun shops and think about what you buy.
I saw some DSA ARs a few months back in the $700 range
Armalite makes IMHO the best ARs. However, you can get an AK for about half. Just doesn’t have the “sex appeal” of an AR. Getit in .223, easy to shoot.
Good luck and happy shopping.
.223 cal. is US inches vs 5.56mm in Euro mm measurement.
Be sure to get 62 grain bullets if you have a 1:7 twist for the barrel
If you get an older “SP1” type Colt, you’ll need 55 grain bullets for the quicker 1:14 twist inside the barrel.
They are all about double in price what they should be. They are built basically the same, some have tighter fits than others. It also might depend whether you want the basic model or a suped up job with all the bells and whistles. I have a GSE (Gunsmoke enterprise) which is well built and quite accurate. Ammo will be fun trying to get.
DSA also makes their own AR line:
Their FAL’s are nice but start at $1700. According to one FR person here - DSA sold out production for two years post 9/11 because spec ops guys were buying their FALs. I never verfied the story and have no idea if it is true. They seem to get good review. Their AR’s start at $1,050.
It will cost you a buttload...but try to keep 5,000 rounds per battle rifle....and be sure to save every peice of brass you drop.
If you can make sure the one you purchase is chambered for 5.56mm NATO.
I checked out a lot of brands before I bought and I chose the Rock River Arms. Your mileage may vary.
There’s an explanation about .223 vs 5.56 on the web somewhere (I forget)....supposedly, the 5.56 chamber has a slightly longer ‘leade’, which is a lengthened chamber taper at the slug end of the chamber for ‘military’ rounds.....one can imaging if a military 5.56 cartridge is fired in a .223 chambered rifle that overpressure, etc. could occur...I’ve not seen this mentioned in any of the manufacturer’s manuals I have, however....
I would get me a good shotgun, unless you are made out of money. The prices have gone through the roof locally.
They most assuredly are not.
This from Winchester.
Good advice. Try to find a good local store known for good prices. Go there before any show. Another option is buying direct from the companies like DSA or Bushmaster just need a local tranfer person.
I remember during Clinton that gun shows were like semi-hysteria when Clinton butted heads with the NRA and lost big time. My guess is the hyseria now is probably 3x Clinton - for good reason.
Any idea what they are like? I had read that the DSA FAL’s are very good. I know Bushmaster’s stuff is good.
Its crazy. Some guys just bought like 15k of ammo the other week and headed to the Tulsa gunshow to jack up the prices.
My local dealer has taken to rationing some calibers to keep people from hoarding
I dont know. Mine is a High Standard and I love it!
Yeah it is like a stock market bubble. Remember when Freon was being banned. Guys were buying it and filling warehouses with freon to store it.
I would go for a Saiga .223 it is an AK47 reciever but instead of it being chambered for the 7.62 it is chambered for the .223 If yu are familiar with AKs you know they are a breeze to strip and clean and can be done with no hand tools.
A 1 in 14 inch twist is slower than a 1 in 7 inch twist.
5.56 is not the same as .223. The specs for the 5.56 are military and the specs for .223 are SAAMI specs.
You can safely shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber, but cannot safely shoot 5.56 safely in a .223 chamber.
Before prices went nuts ARs were like $750~$1200.
Most Manufactures make good AR’s (I dont know about Olympic)
STAG,High Standard;and DPMS all make fine AR’s
Yes, it's fine to shoot 5.56mm in an AR15 that's marked .223 Remington.
General rule of thumb is not to use military surplus 5.56mm in old bolt-action rifles marked '.223 Remington' that were manufactured long ago when the cartridge was relatively new for sporting use. Same thing goes for 7.62x51 NATO/.308 Winchester.
These would be bolt-action rifles from the 1950s-1960s I'm talking about here.
My favorite local shop got caught up in the hysteria and I will never buy from them again. I was looking for an inexpensive 22 rifle for my nephew to shoot, the shop told me they had a few used Marlin 60s, I went up there and they were asking $200 each for them, I told them they were insane and picked a new one up at Walmart for $150.
If someone is looking for an AR-15 and wants it soon they are probably better off looking at GunsAmerica or Gunbroker. The local shops I’ve seen either don’t have any or they are selling them for $500 over list. I found a local FFL who will do transfers for $30 and that’s probably what I’ll do from now on. I’m mainly glad that I bought plenty of ammo last year.
If it's a big show, you'll probably have a good selection of dealers to choose from. If it's a small show, well then, maybe not so true (on price competitiveness)?
How big is the show?
“I would get me a good shotgun”
I absolutely agree with Tarpon on this. Get yourself a good pump shotgun. An 870 seems to be a popular choice, although Mossberg seems to be a good choice too.
Buy a magazine extension for it so you can load it with 8 or more rounds. Ammo is still available for it.
If I could only have one gun, this would be it. You can hunt anything from squirrels to bears with it, and loaded with 00 Buck its a real man stopper. The only disadvantage is 35 yards is about its maximum range for self defense.
Buy one of these and you will still have money to eat with!
RE: twist: got it reversed...sorry....i do the same thing when i argue with my girlfriend whether black is the absence or the combination of colors.
Re: .223 vs 5.56. I have never EVER had, seen, or known of a FTE, FTF with any AR with either ammo on our range. The only time I have seen an FTF or FTE is when we screw on a suppressor to our full autos.
Just three days ago I picked up a Ruger p89 with four pre-ban mags for $250. I was looking for a pistol caliber carbine (there are zero availble around here) and bought this as a too-good-to-pass-up deal. Grabbed ten boxes of cartridges too. No ammo problem here (at least nines and 00 buckshot).
Need to know how many grains of powder to use to reload my .40 cal brass, using 180 grain bullets. I'm using Winchester 231 smokeless gunpowder.
How dare you get something wrong on the Internets.
First thing I’d wonder is if the magazine springs were ‘sprung’ Are the mags used?
That sounds like great advice.. i will look around for gun shops.
Shotguns are one of the few things that haven’t gone crazy price wise, and they are very useful in a variety of scenarios.
ive never messed with an AK.. that was one of the main reasons for getting an AR is im familiar with the M-16.
Isnt one of the advantages of an AK using the bigger 7.62 round?
thanks for the info and link on this
From the gun shows I've been to lately, you won't find any bargains there. My local gun shop has AR 15's for reasonable prices, at least given the current market. From the posts I saw on this thread, my experience is a bit unusual. One poster recommended Gunbroker.com or Gunsamerica.com. I don't find the Gunbroker.com prices to be very appealing, but again, I'm somewhat spoiled by the local gunshop, although I would point out that even their prices have gone up lately.
Good luck and good shopping.
Good post. yeah I mentioned people can go to DSA or Bushmaster direct and buy. Both companies have web sites and you can buy direct. I have not been to Bushie for a while but DSA is quoting their AR’s for $1050.
I really want one of their STG 58 Austrian FAL’s for $1100 as a back up to my Bushie. I love their FAL’s but they are $1700. I am not sure how good their AR’s are but the company supposedly has a pretty good reputation.
There are a LOT of companies making ARs now so people may be able to find web sites to buy direct then ship to your local FFL.
GunsAmerica and GunBroker are another option but some of the inventory listed is pricey due to the hysteria.
Yes, and like I said they are easier to clean and maintain. Get a little dirt into an AR-15 and it might jam, pack an AK full of mud and it will still fire.
are FALs better than AKs? whats the difference?
Brownell’s has an “AR15 Builder” on their website now where you can pretty much design your own from scratch. I played around with it a while back, you should check it out.
When I bought my AR pattern rifle I specified the 5.56mm chamber for just that reason.
I've had excellent luck with my Rock River. It comes standard from the factory with a 2 stage 'match' type trigger. That's usually an option that costs a hundred bucks or so from other manufacturers.
As far as which one's 'best', well that's an argument for a months worth of Sundays. Find one you like that's within your budget. You'll be well served IMO with any of the major makers.
Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River, DPMS, etc. Any should function properly provided you take care of it and fire the proper ammo.
Best of luck to you.