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Court rules Demjanjuk can be removed from US (Nazi a.k.a Ivan The Terrible)
Radio New Zealand News ^ | 05/02/2009

Posted on 05/01/2009 10:02:59 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan

A US federal court has denied former Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk's latest attempt to block extradition to Germany to face charges of aiding in the wartime murder of thousands of Jews. A spokeswoman for the Justice Department declined to comment on when Mr Demjanjuk would be deported but said the government would continue to seek his removal to Germany. His son said the family is considering an appeal to the US Supreme Court and has also filed a lawsuit in Germany seeking an emergency stay.

The decision is the latest development in a decades-long saga over the elder Demjanjuk's wartime actions. In a dramatic twist last month, the octogenarian won an 11th-hour reprieve when the court stayed his deportation shortly after he was carried out of his Cleveland, Ohio home in a wheelchair to be put on a flight to Munich.

The appeals court on Friday rejected an argument by Mr Demjanjuk's lawyer that his client is in such poor health that jailing and trying him in Germany would cause him pain amounting to torture.

Born in Ukraine in 1920, John Demjanjuk was a soldier in the Red Army when he was captured by the Nazis in the spring of 1942. He was trained at Treblinka in Nazi-occupied Poland and served two years in the camps of Sobibor and Majdanek, also in occupied Poland, and in Flossenburg in Bavaria, southern Germany. He has always insisted he was forced to work for the Nazis and had been mistaken by survivors for other cruel guards. He immigrated to the United States in 1952 with his family, settling in Ohio, where he found work in the car industry.

Condemned to death in Israel in 1988 after he was convicted of being the sadistic "Ivan the Terrible", the verdict was overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court because of doubts about his identity. He was returned to the United States over strenuous objections from Holocaust survivors and Jewish groups, who argued there was sufficient evidence that he served as a death camp guard to warrant another trial.

In 1999, the US government filed new charges using fresh evidence that surfaced following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and he was stripped of his US citizenship in 2002. Germany issued a warrant for his arrest on 11 March on charges of assisting in the murder of 29,000 Jews.

Copyright © 2009 Radio New Zealand


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: demjanjuk; germany; holocaust; israel; nazi; tm; warcriminal; wwii

1 posted on 05/01/2009 10:02:59 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
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To: BuckeyeTexan

He was not “Ivan the Terrible”, but one of the many nameless run of the mill camp guards. He probably should have been served a lead sandwich right after the war, but wasn’t... he was allowed to go free... as were countless other Nazis much higher up the food chain.


2 posted on 05/01/2009 10:06:27 PM PDT by Chet 99
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To: BuckeyeTexan

John Demjanjuk was almost certainly NOT “Ivan the Terrible.”

He was almost certainly an SS guard at a prison camp. Whether he should be deported and tried in Germany, given his poor medical condition, is debatable.


3 posted on 05/01/2009 10:09:34 PM PDT by iowamark (certified by Michael Steele as "ugly and incendiary")
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To: BuckeyeTexan

I know Christian men that were held as POWs in Japan. Why aren’t we going after all these Japanese after all these years? The Japs were even more brutal than the Germans.

Is it because Christian are forgiving and the Jews haven’t learned that part yet?

I really don’t know the answer. I just find it an interesting observation that Americans are trying to put old Japanese men up on trial.


4 posted on 05/01/2009 10:12:04 PM PDT by boycott
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To: Chet 99

Did they ever punish the Jews who joined the police force that helped the Nazis keep Jews in line? I heard they were hated by their fellow Jews but I never heard of them being prosecuted after the war.


5 posted on 05/01/2009 10:14:28 PM PDT by peeps36 ( Al Gore. Is A Big Fat Lying Hypocrite. He Pollutes The Air By Opening His Big Mouth)
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To: boycott

I meant to post:

I just find it an interesting observation that Americans are “NOT” trying to put old Japanese men up on trial.


6 posted on 05/01/2009 10:14:33 PM PDT by boycott
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To: boycott

It’s Germany that wants him this time, but I understand your point.


7 posted on 05/01/2009 10:15:54 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
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To: Chet 99

You and I agree on this one, Chet 99. The Israeli Supreme Court overturned his verdict because there were serious doubts about his identity. I can’t see that there is anything to be gained by going through a trial again.

This man may be innocent and he may not. No human being on this earth is going to be able to prove it one way or another. God will be the judge and jury.


8 posted on 05/01/2009 10:18:41 PM PDT by CaribouCrossing
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To: BuckeyeTexan

What really is the point of sending a bed ridden man that far from his home and family? Is he really a danger to anyone? Can’t they try him via camera/internet and if he is infact guilty then send him then?


9 posted on 05/01/2009 10:19:23 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: peeps36

Yes, “they” did.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/26/nyregion/haunting-issues-surround-jewish-nazi-camp-overseer.html?pagewanted=all&pagewanted=print

“During the Holocaust memorial ceremony in Brighton Beach last June, each of the neighborhood’s synagogues sent forth one of its faithful to light a candle. A stooped old man named Jacob Tannenbaum represented Temple Beth El, and those who attended the service recall that as he lit the wick he began to cry. And so did the friends who knew that Mr. Tannenbaum himself was a survivor, the sole survivor from a family of 12.

Now the same Mr. Tannenbaum is accused by Federal authorities of wartime atrocities; of viciously beating his fellow prisoners while serving as a kapo, or overseer, in a forced-labor camp. The Justice Department has moved to rescind the 75-year-old Mr. Tannenbaum’s citizenship in the first step toward potential deportation. Only three times before has the United States charged a Jew with collaborating with the Nazis, and only once was the man ordered out of the country.”


10 posted on 05/01/2009 10:22:57 PM PDT by Chet 99
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To: BuckeyeTexan

This story should serve as a template for stories we’ll be reading in the year 2050 about Talibs we caught back in ‘02 and didn’t summarily execute.


11 posted on 05/01/2009 10:25:30 PM PDT by j-damn
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To: CaribouCrossing

The Israeli Supreme Court issued an opinion that was almost a thousand pages and they thought long and hard about whether it’d be just to try him for being some third rate camp guard after finding him not guilty of being one of the most notorious/evil death camp guards. They concluded in the negative, which is good enough for me...

BUT, if he lied his way into the country to obtain US Citizenship, I don’t see why the passage of time or his age should make a difference. Liberals make the same argument about amnesty for illegal Mexicans who have been here for decades.


12 posted on 05/01/2009 10:26:55 PM PDT by Chet 99
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To: chris_bdba

I wouldn’t tag Demjanjuk as “bed-ridden”. He appears to be in fairly good health for his age. The family has used health issues for several years as a reason not to do this...which is curious...if the guy isn’t the guilty party, then put the evidence on the table. Several sources have said that at best...he was simply a guard there, and nothing else. If I were the family, I’d be pushing those comments instead.

Most analysts will agree that we are just about at the tailend of WW II and its enormous influence on our lives. The guys who fought in the war are dying. The guilty parties are dying. The political figures of minor consequence still left...are dying. Within a few years, we will have no more debates on this topic, and simply move on.


13 posted on 05/01/2009 10:28:25 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Chet 99

“BUT, if he lied his way into the country to obtain US Citizenship, I don’t see why the passage of time or his age should make a difference. Liberals make the same argument about amnesty for illegal Mexicans who have been here for decades.”

Did he? Lie his way into our country? I have only read that he immigrated to this country and found work.


14 posted on 05/01/2009 10:34:42 PM PDT by CaribouCrossing
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To: Chet 99

He lied on his citizenship application and on his residency application. That is the root and branch of the problem.

If he had not lied, he may have been admitted even so, and we would not be having this discussion now.

He did lie. You don’t get to lie on your citizenship application.


15 posted on 05/01/2009 10:35:18 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: CaribouCrossing

Yeah, he did. He presented himself as a concentration camp victim.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25368834-2703,00.html


16 posted on 05/01/2009 10:37:31 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: CaribouCrossing

He did lie, which is why his citizenship was revoked. He’s not being extradited to Germany - he’s to be deported.

No different than sending an illegal alien back to Mexico.


17 posted on 05/01/2009 10:38:42 PM PDT by Chet 99
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To: BuckeyeTexan

We deport John Demjanjuk but let George Soros stay here. What kind of screwed up priorities are those?


18 posted on 05/01/2009 10:43:21 PM PDT by TBP
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To: Spktyr; Chet 99

Thank you both for the info. And thank you, Spktyr, for the link as well.

Didn’t realize he was an illegal. I’ll sure read up on the rest of his story.


19 posted on 05/01/2009 10:43:55 PM PDT by CaribouCrossing
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To: boycott

No, the US Gov’t let it go because they did not want undue attention brought to those events by a large war crimes trial. Personally, given Imperial Japan’s atrocities, the trials should have been held.


20 posted on 05/01/2009 11:44:22 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: TBP

We want to send a decrepid old man to trial for warcrimes, while at the same time we want to pull todays terrorists out of Gitmo and send them home?????


21 posted on 05/02/2009 12:08:57 AM PDT by SirFishalot
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To: Chet 99

So, Mr. Tannenbaum is 75 years old now, but he was a “kapo”
in a camp?
So, was he born around 1934?
How many “kapos” were 10 years old in the camps?

BTW, I literally just got back from a unique family meeting, where my family met a couple of relatives who we did not even know existed.
We have a very rare name in the world.
Our families all came from a small province in is what is now
Ukraine.
It was the Volhynian Oblast, under Polish, and then Russian rule.
My family was able to escape from 1900 to 1915, while this other part of our “new family” that we met, only tonight,
was sent to Siberia.
That they ever made it out is amazing to me.

John Denjanjuk will be judged by an entity much more wise than a European court will ever be.


22 posted on 05/02/2009 12:13:15 AM PDT by gigster
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To: Chet 99

Sorry Chet, I missed the 1987 tag on your post.
It certainly puts him there, mature, at the time.
It was a horrific period, not too long ago.
I fear for our future.

(But I am prepared.)


23 posted on 05/02/2009 12:27:09 AM PDT by gigster
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To: Chet 99
Ivan Demjanjuk does not have the same name as Ivan Marchenko, the one that was referred to as "Ivan the Terrible". How hard could it be to figure out they weren't the same person?

(Interesting side note: the original "Ivan the Terrible" for Ivan IV of Muscovy, is a mistranslation. "Grozny" means "awe-inspiring" or "fearsome", not what we usually think of as "terrible".)

The US government imported thousands of not just Nazis but in fact SS troops to help form the basis of what later was called the CIA, in order to work against the Communist threat. This of course explains why American policy which was inherently anti-Communism was transformed into anti-Russian, as it still is. But evidently, you can be a real Nazi and get into America as long as you didn't lie on the paperwork.

24 posted on 05/02/2009 3:02:49 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: sheik yerbouty

No, the US Gov’t let it go because they did not want undue attention brought to those events by a large war crimes trial. Personally, given Imperial Japan’s atrocities, the trials should have been held.


No doubt trials should have been held. I am not sure POWs were ever treated any worse than the Japanese treated our American soldiers.


25 posted on 05/02/2009 7:01:23 AM PDT by boycott
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To: boycott

They weren’t in my judgement. Hence, I think that they should have went forward with them..


26 posted on 05/02/2009 12:34:55 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: CaribouCrossing

From the US point of view, that would be the thing..


27 posted on 05/02/2009 12:37:55 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Chet 99
Yes, “they” did.

Tannenbaum lost his citizenship but wasn't deported anywhere. There were about three other procedings in the fifties, one successful, but it doesn't look like denaturalization and deportation were very seriously pursued in more than a handful of cases. Of course "kapo" has different connotations. Not all kapos -- Jewish or gentile -- were guards or killers.

28 posted on 05/02/2009 12:57:43 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Of course "kapo" has different connotations. Not all kapos -- Jewish or gentile -- were guards or killers.

Maybe I'm wrong about that. I was thinking about work details, who survived when others died. So far as I can find out a kapo was an overseer, and hence, in a way, a guard.

29 posted on 05/02/2009 1:08:20 PM PDT by x
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To: Chet 99

Last month, when the Ted Stevens conviction was thrown out, I did some reading about the prosecutors. One of the DOJ attorneys that was held in contempt for failing to turn over documents and thrown off the Stevens case (Patty Stemler) is the same one that was rebuked by a judge in 1992 for failing to disclose evidence in Demjanjuk’s case, specifically documents and witness statements that showed he was not Ivan as had been alleged.


30 posted on 05/02/2009 1:27:12 PM PDT by calcowgirl (RECALL Abel Maldonado! - NO on Props 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F)
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To: SirFishalot

And yet, as I noted, we allow George Soros, a man convicted of a felony in France and who admitted in his own biography to identifying Jews for teh Nazis so they could be sent off to the concentration camps to be killed, to remain in this country? If we’re going after Demjanjuk, a draftee, then we should denaturalize and deport Soros, who did worse IMO than Demjanjuk did.


31 posted on 05/02/2009 9:01:22 PM PDT by TBP
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To: boycott

On what authority were the Nazis or the Japanese tried?


32 posted on 05/02/2009 9:05:53 PM PDT by TBP
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To: Chet 99

no they didnt!

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1997/08/10/1997-08-10_osi_has_nailed_scores_of_ex-.html

“Kapos” were Jews who agreed to oversee fellow prisoners in exchange for favorable treatment by their Nazi captors. Tannenbaum was charged with beating Jewish prisoners, and he settled with the OSI by admitting to its charges to dodge deportation. “


33 posted on 05/04/2009 7:10:32 PM PDT by blackminorca
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To: Spktyr

He was in a german prison camp - there is no doubt about that and he only lied to stop being sent back to the communists where he was surely to be killed.

http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/history/keelhaul.html


34 posted on 05/04/2009 7:43:44 PM PDT by blackminorca
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To: blackminorca

Doesn’t matter.

On the citizenship application it warns that lying on the form will result in rejection.

He lied.

Out he goes.


35 posted on 05/04/2009 10:55:58 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

“Doesn’t matter.

On the citizenship application it warns that lying on the form will result in rejection.

He lied”

Well then how come they let the Jewish Nazi off Scott Free?

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1997/08/10/1997-08-10_osi_has_nailed_scores_of_ex-.html


36 posted on 05/09/2009 8:59:19 PM PDT by blackminorca
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

The Soviets had their Nazis working for them, we had ours.


37 posted on 05/09/2009 9:05:35 PM PDT by dfwgator (1996 2006 2008 - Good Things Come in Threes)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
In 1999, the US government filed new charges using fresh evidence that surfaced following the collapse of the Soviet Union,

So the evidence against Demjanjuk, came from the KGB? Now they would never falsify anything, would they? FWIW, any Red Army soldier captured by the Germans, by Soviet policy, were considered traitors and therefore condemned to death should they ever return to Soviet soil.

38 posted on 05/09/2009 9:08:33 PM PDT by dfwgator (1996 2006 2008 - Good Things Come in Threes)
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