Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

James Baker Backs Reinstating the Draft
US News and World Report ^ | 5-3-09 | Paul Bedard

Posted on 05/03/2009 8:02:08 PM PDT by truthandlife

Rep. Charlie Rangel, Congress's lone champion of reinstating the military draft, can count on another Korean War-era vet for support: Republican James Baker, a soldier in the Reagan and Bush administrations. Baker, secretary of state during the first Gulf War, visited a private girls' school in Virginia, where he was asked how to attract kids into some kind of service that gives them a stake in the country's future. "This is a very unpopular thing that I am about to say," he warned. "But one thing that makes it harder to go to war is to have a draft, because when you have a draft, then everybody's got a stake in it, and the costs of war are brought home much more vividly and vigorously to the American people. I think national service is a wonderful idea." But unlikely, he conceded: "You get killed if you support a draft, politically, but it sure would raise the stakes. Everybody would understand a lot better what we have at stake when we go to war."


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 111th; baker; conscription; draft
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-85 next last

1 posted on 05/03/2009 8:02:08 PM PDT by truthandlife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
Reinstating the Draft..........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2 posted on 05/03/2009 8:06:10 PM PDT by NordP (CONSERVATIVE AGAIN IN 2010 ..... Now, is it 2012 yet ???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
WHAT?

I mean

WHAT?!?

James Baker said WHAT? Damn.... (shaking head) just DAMN.
3 posted on 05/03/2009 8:06:12 PM PDT by Danae (Amerikan Unity My Ass)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I’d love to see the leftist faces when young women are drafted into service. They want equal everything...With all this political correctness, equal rights etc, in the U.S., they’ll get just that.


4 posted on 05/03/2009 8:08:25 PM PDT by dragnet2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

He’s still alive? Who knew?


5 posted on 05/03/2009 8:08:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet ("The unarmed man is not just defenseless - he is also contemptible." Machiavelli)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I pray not. I have teenaged sons, and I sure don’t want them forced to serve under the current White House resident.


6 posted on 05/03/2009 8:10:00 PM PDT by Think free or die (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money - M.Thatcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

“But unlikely, he conceded: “You get killed if you support a draft, politically, but it sure would raise the stakes. Everybody would understand a lot better what we have at stake when we go to war.”

Haven’t you heard Jimmie, we don’t declare wars anymore. A draft is nothing but a guarantee of sub-par soldiers in this day and age. The other idiot Rangel whom also supports a draft only does so as a vehicle for organizing anti-war protests in the vain of a left-wing agenda. It has nothing to do with the so-called noble principle of a “national service”.


7 posted on 05/03/2009 8:10:24 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (Spay or Neuter your liberal today!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NordP
"the costs of war are brought home much more vividly and vigorously to the American people".

What a Dushbag. We have a all volunteer armed forces and they want to be there and they are proud to be there.

The draft would bring in a bunch of dushbags who did not want to be there just like in the 60's.

The one thing about the draft if your old enough to get drafted then your old enough to drink. So are they going to lower the drinking age to 18 or raise the draft age to 21?

8 posted on 05/03/2009 8:13:32 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
We should draft a 100,000 each year, train them through basic and a short duration advanced specialization (total active time no more than six months), then return them to civilian life.

They would not be required to serve in either the National Guard nor the Reserves. Only if there was a declared war, such as the two World Wars would they be called back to service.

9 posted on 05/03/2009 8:14:09 PM PDT by richiep (Richie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NordP
because when you have a draft, then everybody's got a stake in it

I remember during the late 60s and 70s it was just accepted by most that if you or your family had money or connections you could stay out of "The Draft" if you or your daddy so desired. Seemed to be and was accepted as a fact of life.

10 posted on 05/03/2009 8:17:30 PM PDT by WesternPacific (I am tired of voting for the lesser of two evils!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

The same way that if everyone pays taxes, then everyone has a stake in the country?


11 posted on 05/03/2009 8:21:41 PM PDT by carola
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
Another Bushie sticks his statist face into the media limelight.

STFU Baker, you old fart.

12 posted on 05/03/2009 8:23:48 PM PDT by Nonstatist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
Everybody would understand a lot better what we have at stake when we go to war

Which is why Rangel supports it; what better way to make sure theres draft riots and other disruptions

Thats the last thing anyone wants , except for mischievous leftists and brain dead dinosaurs like Jim Baker.

13 posted on 05/03/2009 8:27:30 PM PDT by Nonstatist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
They ARE talking about the Military and not the obama Youth Corp right?


14 posted on 05/03/2009 8:28:01 PM PDT by do the dhue (They've got us surrounded again. The poor bastards. - One of General Abram's men)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: guitarplayer1953
The draft would bring in a bunch of dushbags who did not want to be there just like in the 60's.

Dushbags? Did not want to be there?

Are you referring to the 18,000 that were drafted and died fighting in Vietnam?

15 posted on 05/03/2009 8:31:01 PM PDT by dragnet2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: carola

Bring it on. The young people who voted for Obama should find out what service is all about. I fear Obama will get us into a really bad war. Weak presidents do that.


16 posted on 05/03/2009 8:32:03 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: guitarplayer1953

We should have tried every traitor including the Weather Underground, Jerry Rubin, and Jane Fonda all of whom waged agit prop warfare and physical warfare against the United States during a time of war in positive pro-North Vietnamese Communist VICTORY.

That would’ve cut the wind out of the sails off the so called anti-war movement. if they were truly antiwar, they wouldn’t have celebrated every time a Viet Cong shot down a US pilot.


17 posted on 05/03/2009 8:32:32 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (IRONY - we know more about the First Dog's historical papers than we do of President Barack.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

if it ain’t broke ......


18 posted on 05/03/2009 8:32:56 PM PDT by elpadre (Afganista)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dragnet2
And how many went AWOL, ran away to Canada, played Clinton's “I loathe the military but want to join ROTC but I don't” game, or served but worked as agent provocateurs or served doped up and fragged their own men because of incompetence?
19 posted on 05/03/2009 8:34:05 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (IRONY - we know more about the First Dog's historical papers than we do of President Barack.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise
And how many went AWOL

I have no idea. I was referring to the 18,000, that were drafted that died fighting honorably in Vietnam.

If I'm not mistaken, going AWOL also occurs in the ranks of the enlisted, though not in as great of numbers.

20 posted on 05/03/2009 8:39:09 PM PDT by dragnet2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Nonstatist

“Another Bushie sticks his statist face into the media limelight.

STFU Baker, you old fart.”

Jim Baker could fight 100 “Nonstatists” simultaneously, chew each up and spit all of you out, you lightweight.


21 posted on 05/03/2009 8:40:16 PM PDT by Rembrandt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

“But one thing that makes it harder to go to war is to have a draft, because when you have a draft, then everybody’s got a stake in it, and the costs of war are brought home much more vividly and vigorously to the American people.”

I’m sure a web search will turn up all sorts of quotes by the Founders showing their views on filling military ranks from the people at large as opposed to maintaing an equivilently sized standing army of professionals.


22 posted on 05/03/2009 8:45:57 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: headstamp 2
The other idiot Rangel whom also supports a draft only does so as a vehicle for organizing anti-war protests in the vain of a left-wing agenda.

Thats exactly right! During the anti-war demonstrations in 2003 Rangel was interviewed for CSPAN and he said reinstating the draft will galvanize the general public against the war, as in the 60's. He doesn't care one whit about national service.

23 posted on 05/03/2009 8:46:03 PM PDT by gracie1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

OK, everyone, take a deep breath before reacting. Then, think for a minute about our history and let’s gather some facts.

1) Think of a mutual defense pact between the citizens, the states and the Feds - that’s the militia that the Constitution creates.
2) The same Constitution also provides for an Army.
3) The founding generation passed the Militia Act of 1792, which required among other things, that ALL able-bodied white males ages 17-45 be enrolled in the militia.
4) Current Federal law (10 USC 311) is not substantially different in the legal definition of the militia as the Act of 1792, except that all males are included (aka the “unorganized militia”).
5) As originally legislated you had to own a suitable gun, ammo, train, etc. [nota bene] I’d be all for a return to that system.
6) That said, the militia cannot constitutionally be used for foreign adventures (Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution defines the three missions of the Federal militia).
7) The Constitution allows the President to take command of the state’s militias with the approval of the Congress.
8) The draft into the Army, OTOH, is not found in the Constitution.
9) Given the quality of modern jurisprudence you’d NEVER find a Federal judge would have the balls to make a true ruling.

Wouldn’t it be great to get the kids to hate the Democrats by bringing back the draft? I mean we’d have to get the Reps to vote no to a man to make the point, but hey never let a crisis go to waste. What we’re doing to the younger generation with debt is bad enough. Once they figure out what Comandante Zero is doing to them, they’ll never vote for that %^&#@ again. Think Wedge Issue folks!


24 posted on 05/03/2009 8:46:17 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NordP

Let’s make it retroactive just to have the perverse thrill of seeing Obama in basic training olive drab, and eating at the mess hall at 6 30 AM, and lying in his bunk staring at a picture of Michelle.


25 posted on 05/03/2009 8:47:05 PM PDT by supremedoctrine (The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity---Yeats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: guitarplayer1953

Exactly!


26 posted on 05/03/2009 8:48:20 PM PDT by NordP (CONSERVATIVE AGAIN IN 2010 ..... Now, is it 2012 yet ???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dragnet2

And there were enlisted men who worked as counter agents in the Iraq War too. I give you Sgt. Akbar. A muslim man who threw a grenade into an officers’ tent killing 2 and wounding a dozen.


27 posted on 05/03/2009 8:48:25 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (IRONY - we know more about the First Dog's historical papers than we do of President Barack.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: supremedoctrine

Delicious visual


28 posted on 05/03/2009 8:48:57 PM PDT by NordP (CONSERVATIVE AGAIN IN 2010 ..... Now, is it 2012 yet ???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: KrisKrinkle

Standing armies were viewed as dangerous to the founders. The system they created was a citizen militia. This is NOT the system we have today, no matter how the Feds fudge the wording of current law.


29 posted on 05/03/2009 8:49:17 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: gracie1

The Constitution has some very specific things to say about “national service.” It says that the militia can be federalized by the Congress to perform it’s three Constitutionally defined missions. No more than that. It doesn’t say the militia can be turned into an Army. And the difference is substantial - militia’s fight with their own weapons, fight for a limited period of time and don’t leave the US.


30 posted on 05/03/2009 8:55:26 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I agree on this with Baker and Rangel. Reinstate the military draft.


31 posted on 05/03/2009 8:58:35 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: carola
The same way that if everyone pays taxes, then everyone has a stake in the country?

Excellent point! Especially in this day and age when TOTUS always talks about "shared sacrifice."

32 posted on 05/03/2009 9:11:40 PM PDT by DTogo (Time to bring back the Sons of Liberty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: RKV
Standing armies were viewed as dangerous to the founders.

Exactly.

The system they created was a citizen militia. This is NOT the system we have today...

True. Now we have a fair sized standing army augmented by the National Guard which is a form of select militia. And if we had a draft, not everyone would be called to serve or even at the least be trained.

Back then they wrote in the Militia Act of 1792 that each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia...

That would be pretty much all of them, and they had to spend time training/drilling on a regular basis and purchase their own equipment, or at least some of it. And they got an idea of what war and the military was like which idea of necessity carried over into the rest of their lives including any public office they might eventually attain.

So you're correct when you write "This is NOT the system we have today..."

33 posted on 05/03/2009 9:12:02 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise
The draft would bring in a bunch of dushbags who did not want to be there just like in the 60's.

Dushbags? Did not want to be there?

Are you referring to the 18,000 that were drafted and died fighting in Vietnam?

And there were enlisted men who worked as counter agents in the Iraq War too.

That has little to do with my point above.

The fact is 18,000 of those drafted died fighting in Vietnam.

They did not have to go, there were options, not good ones, but no one forced them at gun point.

I know people who were drafted that died in combat, and I take exception to someone calling all those Americans drafted during Vietnam, "dushbags".

In certain circles, the individual that made that comment, would get his head handed to him.

34 posted on 05/03/2009 9:17:00 PM PDT by dragnet2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I will not ever support reinstating the draft. Our volunteer system is ideal. And those who have served have my respect. Those are the truly great Americans.


35 posted on 05/03/2009 9:19:53 PM PDT by mysterio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KrisKrinkle

I would consider it an improvement if we returned to something closer to what the founder’s envisioned. And I am not referring to a draft, and I do mean most every citizen would own an M16 or equivalent (personally I’d go for a Sig SG550).


36 posted on 05/03/2009 9:21:31 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

Baker’s either gone senile or trying to prostitute himself as the Republican whipping boy for ‘Rat draft reinstatement, which is pretty senile in itself.


37 posted on 05/03/2009 9:21:45 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Post Toasties

The Reps should make the most of this - as in, NO WAY, we brought the volunteer Army into being after decades of Democratic draft armies in 1973. We ain’t going to vote in favor of a draft, that’s one way we’re different than DemocRATs.


38 posted on 05/03/2009 9:26:23 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
But one thing that makes it harder to go to war is to have a draft, because when you have a draft, then everybody's got a stake in it, and the costs of war are brought home much more vividly and vigorously to the American people.

I think he has it backwards. A draft probably won't make it substantially harder to go into war, but once we are at war, it will be used politically to bring our involvement in the war to a disastrous, unnecessary end. Anti-war propagandists will make sure that, whatever the facts, the "stake" that everybody's got in the war according to Baker, is seen as too much to bear.
39 posted on 05/03/2009 9:31:11 PM PDT by MitchellC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2243001/posts?page=223#223


40 posted on 05/03/2009 9:39:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

Whoever, whatever party, is stupid enough to bring the draft back will have a dead albatross around their neck.


41 posted on 05/03/2009 9:44:39 PM PDT by pankot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dragnet2
No the ones who did not want to go and the ones who did not add to the good fighting men who were there. Some who were drafted served with honor some who were drafted did not, they were not a contribution to the armed forces.

If it sounded like everyone who was drafted was a dushbag that was not my intentions and would gladly apologize if it was taken that way.

42 posted on 05/03/2009 9:45:42 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

coincidentially, the below article was posted right after yours and states ethnic minorities compose only 6% of the armed forces. In light of such a small percentage of ethnic minorities who have volunteered on their own to serve their country, perhaps a draft would provide more more equal share of the responsibility for defending our country?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2243531/posts


43 posted on 05/03/2009 10:31:13 PM PDT by blueplum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: richiep

“We should draft a 100,000 each year, train them through basic and a short duration advanced specialization (total active time no more than six months), then return them to civilian life.
They would not be required to serve in either the National Guard nor the Reserves. Only if there was a declared war, such as the two World Wars would they be called back to service.”

No....we shouldnt.


44 posted on 05/03/2009 10:40:02 PM PDT by Crim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: RKV
1) Think of a mutual defense pact between the citizens, the states and the Feds - that’s the militia that the Constitution creates.

It only creates your definition of miltia at the administrative level - not at the level of the Second Amendment (2A).

The Doctrine of Negative Rights (DNR) is the power the 2A invokes to acknowledge the pre-existing militia status of The People.

Since the US Constitution creates the only country based on the DNR, it simultaniously and necessarily redefines the word militia under those auspices, from direct derivativation. The definition of militia you are talking about, however, is NOT the 2A/DNR definition.

45 posted on 05/03/2009 10:59:20 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Forward the Light Brigade
"I fear Obama will get us into a really bad war. Weak presidents do that.

Exactly!

46 posted on 05/03/2009 11:05:57 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I agree with Baker 100%.


47 posted on 05/03/2009 11:16:59 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

People would probably end-up much more well-adjusted if they went into the military; but I don’t think a draft is a desirable thing, unless the countries fate is determined without it (ie circumstances like world wars).


48 posted on 05/03/2009 11:21:38 PM PDT by Rick_Michael (Have no fear "President Government" is here)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Think free or die
As if a "draft" is going to make much of a difference. See S. 277: Serve America Act. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.
49 posted on 05/04/2009 2:03:05 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: guitarplayer1953

“The draft would bring in a bunch of dushbags who did not want to be there just like in the 60’s.”

My best friend was drafted, was killed in battle of Hue during Tet 68. I think of him from time to time..his name is Richard Ballantine, US Marines, Infantryman. He was 19. He is not a dushbag.


50 posted on 05/04/2009 2:13:12 AM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-85 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson