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Israel fears Jewish attack on ‘Hitler Youth’ Pope
The Times (UK) ^ | May 10, 2009 | Uzi Mahnaimi

Posted on 05/10/2009 10:56:29 AM PDT by presidio9

THE Pope will be given unprecedented security when he arrives in Israel tomorrow because of fears that his brief enrolment in the Hitler Youth as a boy of 14 could trigger an assassination attempt by Jewish zealots.

The Israeli government has ordered Shin Bet, the domestic security service, to take command of the visit. Four Audi armoured cars have been imported from Germany and security chiefs have banned the use of the familiar glass-sided “Popemobile” except for a short journey in Nazareth.

In Jordan yesterday, on the first stage of his middle eastern tour, the pontiff held a meeting with Muslim leaders to express “deep respect” for Islam. He offended Muslims in a speech in 2006 in which he quoted a Medieval scholar who linked Islam to violence.

In Israel Benedict XVI’s German nationality, his service in Hitler’s army, his support for the proposed beatification of Pius XII – known in Israel as the “Nazi pope” – and his decision to revoke the excommunication of Richard Williamson, the British bishop and Holocaust denier, have all sparked anger. The Pope was forced to apologise for mishandling the Williamson affair.

General Giora Eiland, the former head of Israel’s national security council, reflected the views of many Israelis. “It would have been better if the visit wasn’t taking place,” he said. “The Pope’s service in the Wehrmacht is a stain.”

The Vatican insists that Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth only because it was compulsory and did not attend its meetings. He was drafted into an antiaircraft corps in 1943 and trained in the infantry, but deserted in the last months of the war.

“The fact that he was a member of the Hitler Youth and later served in the German army

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: hitleryouth; israel; pope; popebenedictxvi; ratzinger
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1 posted on 05/10/2009 10:56:29 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9

Give anyone an excuse and they’ll hate the Pope. But such was predicted by Our Lord Himself for those who follow Him.


2 posted on 05/10/2009 10:59:25 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: presidio9
The Vatican insists that Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth only because it was compulsory and did not attend its meetings. He was drafted into an antiaircraft corps in 1943 and trained in the infantry, but deserted in the last months of the war.

Compulsory membership in the Hitler Youth is easily enough confirmed or refuted.And his record in the German Army,one would think,could be established as well.If either of his claims were inaccurate people all the over the world would have seen proof positive of it.I've seen no such proof.

4 posted on 05/10/2009 11:02:23 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: presidio9

Jews must be trying to get back in the good graces of the Liberal wing of the Democratic party.


5 posted on 05/10/2009 11:03:55 AM PDT by lt.america (Looking for a bailout)
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To: Cargon
Is there anti-Catholic bigotry in Israel too ?

There is every kind of bigotry everywhere you go. Except in Heaven.

6 posted on 05/10/2009 11:04:32 AM PDT by presidio9 ("a stable once had something inside it that was bigger than our whole world," -Lucy Pevensie)
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To: Cargon
Is there anti-Catholic bigotry in Israel too ?

Possibly some.But it seems more likely that it's just radical Jews or people who were directly affected by WWII that feel that *anyone* who served in the German Army and *anyone* who was in the Hitler Youth....no matter how low their rank or how unwilling they were...is guilty,guilty,guilty.

7 posted on 05/10/2009 11:07:13 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: Gay State Conservative

It also might be nice to mention that Joseph was just 16 when he was drafted, and had already had family members executed by the Gestapo. But why take sides on this one, right. There is no such thing as a good German.


8 posted on 05/10/2009 11:07:59 AM PDT by presidio9 ("a stable once had something inside it that was bigger than our whole world," -Lucy Pevensie)
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To: presidio9

More likely danger would be Palestinian zealots masquerading as Israeli zealots.


9 posted on 05/10/2009 11:11:44 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (It's all resistance...and it's all good.)
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To: presidio9
It also might be nice to mention that Joseph was just 16 when he was drafted, and had already had family members executed by the Gestapo.

Two very interesting (and revealing) facts...particularly when considered together.But leftists and radical Jews aren't likely to pay attention.They have their own agendas.

10 posted on 05/10/2009 11:13:39 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: presidio9

I don’t believe this article for a minute. The left in Israel is desperate to have religious Jews seen by the world as “zealots.” Not to mention they want to shackle Netanyahu as much as they can. The left there is as bad as the left here.


11 posted on 05/10/2009 11:19:47 AM PDT by MestaMachine (From Cogs to Castles...)
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To: Pyro7480

If this guy wasn’t the Pope, and had the same history, and he stayed in the Hitler Youth for over a year, would you be suspecting him?

Granted, they shouldn’t be planning physical attacks on him; but I can understand the sentiment of having a little resentment towards him if you saw your relatives sent to the ovens - regardless if there is repentance or not.


12 posted on 05/10/2009 11:29:39 AM PDT by Blogger (It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. - Ben Franklin)
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To: presidio9
Reminds me of the joke. Stop me if you've already heard it:

During WW II, a German soldier gets the advantage over a Polish soldier, and just as the German is about to bayonet the Pole, an angel appears and orders him to stop, that he shouldn't kill the Pole. The German asks "Why?" and the angel replies "Some day, he will become Pope!" The German says "Alright, but what's in it for me?" And the angel responds "Afterwards, you'll get to become Pope."

Regards,

13 posted on 05/10/2009 12:04:06 PM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: Gay State Conservative

From what I have read, one of his cousins who had Downs Syndrome was euthanized (i.e. murdered) by the Nazis.


14 posted on 05/10/2009 12:09:17 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: Blogger

“Granted they shouldn’t be planning physical attacks on the Pope”

Ahhh! A “non” zealot’s take.


15 posted on 05/10/2009 12:15:10 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Blogger
. . . I can understand the sentiment of having a little resentment towards him if you saw your relatives sent to the ovens . . .

Because he was inducted into the HJ?

Crack a book.

16 posted on 05/10/2009 12:17:39 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: alexander_busek

Not funny.Not at *all* funny.


17 posted on 05/10/2009 12:18:28 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: alexander_busek

Wow, that “joke” was deeply asinine.


18 posted on 05/10/2009 12:19:37 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Cargon
Is there anti-Catholic bigotry in Israel too ?

Why not? It's the only respectable bigotry left in this liberal day and age.

19 posted on 05/10/2009 12:20:22 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: safisoft
Petronski and Lee N Field say that if you mention anti-Semitism you forfeit all.

No I didn't, and FR rules prohibit dragging a dispute (even a fake one) from thread to thread.

22 posted on 05/10/2009 12:36:43 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
No I didn't, and FR rules prohibit dragging a dispute (even a fake one) from thread to thread.

Rules which I adhere to.

The notion that you cannot mention anti-Semitism without disqualifying yourself it is a oft-used axiom, which you and Lee N Field repeatedly cite. My comment was to your axiom and has no bearing on any previous thread.
23 posted on 05/10/2009 12:44:04 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: safisoft
The notion that you cannot mention anti-Semitism without disqualifying yourself it is a oft-used axiom, which you and Lee N Field repeatedly cite.

That's a lie.

24 posted on 05/10/2009 12:44:46 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
That's a lie.

Sorry. I must be thinking of another Freeper then. I thought you were the user that came on threads and screamed about anti-Catholic bias.

To the article however, what say you regarding Joseph Ratzinger's membership in the Hitler Youth? Do you feel that youthful membership in the KKK should disqualify you from political office in the US?
25 posted on 05/10/2009 12:48:36 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: presidio9
It's absurd. The future Pope was very young (14 y/o), impressionable, and living in a nation on the brink of chaos when he made this mistake. He was never an active member of the group and he hasn't advocated anything remotely Nazi in his adult life.
26 posted on 05/10/2009 12:58:26 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (The McCain/Palin ticket was like a Kangaroo, stronger on the bottom than at the top)
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To: safisoft

False argument. Not the same at all.


27 posted on 05/10/2009 1:03:01 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: ichabod1
False argument. Not the same at all.

Of course not. Bigotry is only one-sided, right? Everyone ELSE is a bigot.

When Catholics can demonstrably show that Jews have systematically tortured, murdered, "converted" them (cultural and religious genecide), then you can turn the tables... until then, there has no people persecuted as ruthlessly by another as Jews have been by Catholics.
28 posted on 05/10/2009 1:09:41 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: safisoft
I thought you were the user that came on threads and screamed about anti-Catholic bias.

Nope. Not me.

Do you feel that youthful membership in the KKK should disqualify you from political office in the US?

When did the KKK start inducting every boy who reached a certain age?

29 posted on 05/10/2009 1:15:40 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: safisoft
Everyone ELSE is a bigot.

No, the only bigots are the ones who judge someone based on the behavior of others in their group.

30 posted on 05/10/2009 1:19:50 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: safisoft

No, the Nazi party was The Government, a repressive, totalitarian police state, and even if there wasn’t a statute forcing people into the HJ, it was clearly something that was going to raise eyebrows and possibly get yourself or your family “deported” to the camps if any individual decided to take a stand and be a refusenik.

The KKK was a voluntary organization that one had to take positive actions to become a part of.

Here’s a better question: Do you think that anyone associated with the German American Bund before the war should have ever been allowed to hold elective office? How about anyone who supported the Nazis or whos parents supported the Nazis?

And you’ll have to demonstrate to me when/where Catholics systematically tortured, converted, or murdered Jews. And you can’t just point at Catholic countries - you have to show me where the CHURCH committed genocide.


31 posted on 05/10/2009 1:22:33 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: ichabod1
Do you think that anyone associated with the German American Bund before the war should have ever been allowed to hold elective office?

Bund membership wasn't compulsory either.

32 posted on 05/10/2009 1:35:19 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Cargon

“Is there anti-Catholic bigotry in Israel too ?”

I have seen just as much anti-Catholic bigotry among Jews as I have seen anti-Jewish bigotry among Catholics.


34 posted on 05/10/2009 3:15:01 PM PDT by rogator
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To: safisoft

Sure didn’t hurt Robert Byrds Career did it. The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democratic party. Didn’t hurt them much either.


35 posted on 05/10/2009 4:11:29 PM PDT by reefdiver (Freedom - From Govt. - Educators - CNN)
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To: safisoft

Not easy being the “Chosen “ is it?


36 posted on 05/10/2009 4:14:21 PM PDT by reefdiver (Freedom - From Govt. - Educators - CNN)
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To: rogator

I reckon this UK rag is gleeful that it gets to smear conservative Catholics and Jews in one article. Two for one today in the slanting culture war. I bet they would snicker if they ever read this thread.

Freegards


37 posted on 05/10/2009 4:23:31 PM PDT by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
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To: alexander_busek
Whoa that's a deep joke.
38 posted on 05/10/2009 4:36:28 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (<P><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsov1M4h50"> Thank You Satan 1:50</a>)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

I very much doubt that the Israeli gov’t has arranged such tight security due to concerns about “Jewish zealots”.

Three priests (Catholics who embrace Judaism)
Jerusalem Post | May 7, 2009 | DONALD SNYDER
Posted on 05/10/2009 4:37:12 PM PDT by safisoft
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2248223/posts


39 posted on 05/10/2009 6:06:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Blogger

The Pope’s own cousin was murdered by the regime for having Down’s Syndrome! Yet he was forced to join the Hitler Youth.


40 posted on 05/10/2009 6:28:42 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Blogger

The Pope’s own cousin was murdered by the regime for having Down’s Syndrome! Yet he was forced to join the Hitler Youth.


41 posted on 05/10/2009 6:28:42 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: safisoft
To the article however, what say you regarding Joseph Ratzinger's membership in the Hitler Youth? Do you feel that youthful membership in the KKK should disqualify you from political office in the US?

It obviously didn't disqualify the senior Senator from West Virginia.

But comparing the HJ to the KKK is not very sensible, unless you want to talk about a (mythical) nation in which KKK membership is mandatory for all school-age children, and in which the government can intervene to pull a child out of Catholic school for failing to join the KKK.

42 posted on 05/10/2009 6:57:35 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed Imposter")
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To: Petronski

Petronski, you crack a book. I am trying to talk sense. If you saw your whole family sent to the chambers, it probably wouldn’t matter a whole lot how someone became a part of the Regime. It would only matter that they were. People are people. The fact a guy did well in the church won’t negate the past.


43 posted on 05/10/2009 7:00:12 PM PDT by Blogger (It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. - Ben Franklin)
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To: safisoft
I've done a lot of reading in this area - history major and fluent in German.

Membership in the HJ was compulsory once the Nazis consolidated their power. The problem was that if the kids didn't join they were expelled from school. Joseph Ratzinger's headmaster filled out the paperwork for him and sent it in, telling him that he would cover for him and he wouldn't have to attend meetings.

The headmaster did this largely because Ratzinger's father was rather too publicly opposed to the Nazis and suffered a good deal of persecution on account of it (the family had to move to a different town because of threats against the father).

And he also had a cousin who was mentally disabled and was taken away for "medical treatment" by the Nazi regime - shortly thereafter his parents were told he had died of some disease, actually he was one of the victims of a systematic program of murdering the mentally and physically "defective".

It's absurd for these newspapers to bang the drum about supposed Nazi sympathies on the part of the Pope.

It has its roots in the traditional British anti-Catholicism, which in turn has its roots in politics, not religion. Read almost anything by Charles Kingsley & you'll see what I mean.

44 posted on 05/10/2009 7:01:17 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: ichabod1
And you’ll have to demonstrate to me when/where Catholics systematically tortured, converted, or murdered Jews. And you can’t just point at Catholic countries - you have to show me where the CHURCH committed genocide.

Just wow. Where to start...
45 posted on 05/10/2009 7:07:10 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: Blogger
The problem is that by throwing all Germans into the same boat, you become unable to make distinctions between the truly wicked and the victims of circumstance.

If the condemnation is just as severe for all, whether an active SA member breaking glass on Kristallnacht, or just a 14 year old whose family was already in trouble for being anti-Nazi and whose headmaster tried to help him out, then you're in the same boat as the people who expand the definition of "rape" until it's meaningless.

I have Jewish friends who even condemn German Jews "because they stayed". The mother of my best friend growing up nearly disowned her because she married a young man from a German Jewish family.

46 posted on 05/10/2009 7:09:28 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
It's absurd for these newspapers to bang the drum about supposed Nazi sympathies on the part of the Pope.

Right. Absurd. Where would they ever get the idea that a leader of the Catholic "church" was anti-Semitic, or played any role in persecuting Jews? Move on, nothing to see here...

Hey, there was that Luther guy - let's blame the Protestants... didn't Luther write "The Jews and Their Lies"?
47 posted on 05/10/2009 7:12:19 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: Blogger
...a part of the Regime...

As I said, crack a book.

48 posted on 05/10/2009 7:14:02 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: safisoft
Where would they ever get the idea that a leader of the Catholic "church" was anti-Semitic, or played any role in persecuting Jews?

You are a bigot.

49 posted on 05/10/2009 7:17:34 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: safisoft
Not Luther's shining hour.

But a lot of anti-Semitism in that time was simply reflexive and largely political, not personal. If a hungry Jewish guy showed up at Luther's door, I'm pretty sure he would have taken him in and given him a meal.

But by the time of World War II the Catholic Church was strongly anti-Nazi. If you read contemporary sources, you'll find that everyone from Golda Meir to the New York Times was agreed on this point.

The change in attitude stems largely from a play written in the 60s, Der Stellvertreter ("The Deputy"). It is only after that time that the idea that "the Pope didn't do enough" became "the Pope was a Nazi sympathizer" and then became "the Pope was a Nazi".

Interestingly enough, Stasi records that recently became public show that the play was funded by East Germany as part of a Communist effort to discredit the church.

50 posted on 05/10/2009 7:18:05 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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