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Intel fined record $1.45 billion in AMD antitrust case
engadget.com ^ | May 13th 2009 | Thomas Ricker

Posted on 05/13/2009 4:26:12 AM PDT by paudio

The verdict is in and it's huge. As expected, the EU is fining Intel a record €1.06 billion or $1.45 billion (Billion!) dollars due to violations of antitrust rules in Europe. The record fine surpasses that of the €497 million fine originally levied against Microsoft. The EU ruled that Intel illegally used hidden rebates to squeeze rivals out of the marketplace for CPUs. In a statement issued by European Union Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes, the EC said,

(Excerpt) Read more at engadget.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: amd; antitrust; eu; intel
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I doubt AMD will see a cent of this, though.
1 posted on 05/13/2009 4:26:13 AM PDT by paudio
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To: paudio

Heck Intel stole technology from Digital and got away with it. I doubt they’ll actually pay any of this $$. Paying the EU isn’t a good thing IMO anyway.


2 posted on 05/13/2009 4:29:45 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: paudio

These EU pirates are shaking down U.S. companies for billions, while the Somali pirates only get millions. Our companies should boycott Europe.


3 posted on 05/13/2009 4:30:18 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: paudio

A non-crime. Intel made prices lower to consumers and that is bad?


4 posted on 05/13/2009 4:42:47 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: kittymyrib
Our companies should boycott Europe.

the messiah will tell companies who they can and cannot boycott....Obama is europe’s b!tch, and american business's super CEO(or so he believes).

5 posted on 05/13/2009 4:43:20 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: 1010RD

Being successful is a crime now apparently.

Disgusting.

Intel was one of the true innovators, always ahead of the game.


6 posted on 05/13/2009 4:50:55 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective.)
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To: 1010RD
Lower prices isn't bad. However Intel is a snake in the grass. They have screwed over customers more than once. First on the CPU problem that had a bad math processor(they refused to recall until the outcry became so bad they were on the brink of going belly-up), next when they made it possible for a hacker to get your personal information just my querying your CPU.

I haven't knowingly bought an Intel product in years.

7 posted on 05/13/2009 4:51:02 AM PDT by Post-Neolithic (Money only makes Communists rich Communists)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Absolutely correct.

We bemoan the lack of job creation at our largest firms, but it wasn't always the case. Big business could be the job creation engine that small business is. They are ideally suited for divisional experimentation and small business innovation (through funding/merging/etc.).

Why doesn't this happen?

Onerous taxes, regulations and a legal environment that rewards massively trivial harm and legal leechings.

8 posted on 05/13/2009 4:53:47 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: paudio

The EU is little different from any other organized crime syndicate - they run their “protection rackets” on a massive scale...


9 posted on 05/13/2009 4:55:21 AM PDT by The Electrician ("Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.")
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To: Post-Neolithic
You are correct. But, we have a judicial framework to fight egregious harm. Plus, your post has brought the situation to my attention and the attention of every FReeper who reads it.

That is how the free market works. I am not a computer chip expert. I rely on them, someone like you possibly, to keep me on my guard. I am now on guard against Intel products. I will ask all my geek friends about it and assess the risk based on my feelings/the facts.

Look up “market mavens”. They are a tiny minority with an incredibly myopic focus, but they act as market makers/informants to protect the rest of us.

My point is individual liberty, of which a free market is fundamental (free as in you/your choice), works!

10 posted on 05/13/2009 4:57:57 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Excellent tagline!


11 posted on 05/13/2009 5:06:26 AM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (Know the difference between honoring diversity and honoring perversity? No? You must be a liberal!)
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To: Post-Neolithic

Huh?

I don’t remember Intel ever on the “brink of going belly up” and any “personal information” security issues lie with software not the processor hardware even with the embedded hardware ID. Any number of hardware devices in your computer have a unique ID number from the flash BIOS storage devices on up.

AMD has not kept up with technology changes. Intel has significantly superior CPU’s these days even for gaming. You are welcome to pay more for less but I choose otherwise.


12 posted on 05/13/2009 5:06:56 AM PDT by DB
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To: 1010RD

Post-Neolithic is not correct.


13 posted on 05/13/2009 5:07:55 AM PDT by DB
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To: paudio; rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

14 posted on 05/13/2009 5:07:58 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: paudio
I don't get this?

I have an AMD (Quad Core, 687GB - or something really geeky) in this pc and could have had the latest Intel (Pentium IX or something) for the same price. It was my choice -- click 'a' or 'b', have it made, then shipped.

15 posted on 05/13/2009 5:12:43 AM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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To: kittymyrib
These EU pirates are shaking down U.S. companies for billions, while the Somali pirates only get millions. Our companies should boycott Europe.

Intel has a revenue of 30-40 billion a year, a quarter of that profits. So for the sake of argument let's say that's 8 billion (right now it's a bit less due to the economic crisis). For the sake of argument, let's also say that the European PC market is as big as the North American market (it should be slightly bigger) and that it's 25% of Intel's total sales (European Comission estimate ~30%).

In an average year, that would be 2 billion in lost profits. Of course, AMD would be thankful as they could take over the market in a heartbeat, especially as a large number of their CPUs is manufactured in Dresden.
16 posted on 05/13/2009 5:12:47 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: DB; 1010RD
I love how the intel folks come on here and try to convince people I am wrong in my statements. Luckily, or un-lucky for them, I have plenty of proof.

Intel Math CPU problem

Intel's PSN Tech

Facts are wonderful things don't ya know.

17 posted on 05/13/2009 5:15:30 AM PDT by Post-Neolithic (Money only makes Communists rich Communists)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Being successful is a crime now apparently.

Another thread yesterday was on 0bama's quote to investigate and punish companies that "improperly" control "too much" of the market for their product or service.

Of course, he and his bureaucrats will decide what is improper and too much, and it will heavily depend on how much they contribute to Democrat re-election.

18 posted on 05/13/2009 5:22:59 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Condor51
I have an AMD (Quad Core, 687GB - or something really geeky) in this pc and could have had the latest Intel (Pentium IX or something) for the same price. It was my choice -- click 'a' or 'b', have it made, then shipped.

The problem is that outfits like Media Markt sell a huge number of PCs to private customers in the EU. They almost exclusively promote Intel. Just like the special rebate Dell got from Intel in the US (they now do offer AMD chipsets, too).
19 posted on 05/13/2009 5:24:00 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Being successful is a crime now apparently.

Happened to Microsoft in the 90's too, and millions of people lost a ton of money because Clinton went after Microsoft.

20 posted on 05/13/2009 5:25:10 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (I can spell just fine, thanks, it's my typing that sucks.)
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To: Post-Neolithic; 1010RD

Well that was so ‘nineties’, Intel eventually caved on the PSN.

A History of Privacy Issues Intel Pentium III Processor Serial Number
http://www.cdt.org/privacy/issues/pentium3/

CPUID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPUID#EAX.3D3:_Processor_Serial_Number

Querying the PSN does not give a hacker direct access to your personal information, but it can be used to make it easier for a hacker to individually identify your computer.


21 posted on 05/13/2009 5:29:33 AM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (Know the difference between honoring diversity and honoring perversity? No? You must be a liberal!)
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To: paudio

The looting continues ...


22 posted on 05/13/2009 5:30:26 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (May God save America from its government; this is no time for Obamateurs. Emmanuel = Haldeman?)
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Pffft!...Who cares?

When I have new ones built, which I am getting ready to do soon...I specify Intel boards and Intel cpus...they works. Thats all I care about.
23 posted on 05/13/2009 5:31:54 AM PDT by Tainan (Where's my FOF Indicator?)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Intel stole their current design for their microprocessor. They are crooks and it is catching up with them. This is no surprise to me.


24 posted on 05/13/2009 5:39:48 AM PDT by bmwcyle (American voters can fix this world if they would just wake up.)
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To: Post-Neolithic

You don’t like Intel so that makes it okay for the EU to shake them down??? Whatever Intel’s putative sins, that only issues that matter here are whether they behaved in an illegal manner that harmed consumers. The fact that their chips had a math problem is entirely irrelevant.


25 posted on 05/13/2009 5:40:07 AM PDT by MikeGranby
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To: kittymyrib

The Euros are still P.O.d that our computer industry left them in the dust decades ago. Next they’ll find a way to shake down AMD.


26 posted on 05/13/2009 6:04:57 AM PDT by henkster (The GOP is housebroken window-dressing displayed to portray the fiction of a Republic.)
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To: paudio

AMD won’t see a cent. Every penny of this will go into federal coffers to fund Chairman Obama’s utopia. He is in deep doo-doo in terms of paying for everything since it looks like cap and trade has been deep-sixed.


27 posted on 05/13/2009 6:05:19 AM PDT by St. Louis Conservative
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To: Post-Neolithic

Do you have some examples of things that haven’t been fixed / eliminated since say 1994 and 2000 respectively?

I think we’re well past Pentium I, II, and III.

Heck, my 6+ year old PentiumIV still works just fine, but I can’t say that about the one and only AMD based system I ever built. I used that system for less than 2 years and had nothing but problems with it.

Please, provide some recent examples, perhaps more direct info on the IP stealing of Digital’s info.


28 posted on 05/13/2009 6:05:40 AM PDT by jurroppi1 (We need to reward the people that carry the water instead of the people that drink the water!)
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To: LayoutGuru2; DB; Post-Neolithic
LOL. I have three mavens to choose from.

Thanks to you all. You've made my day and reminded me that a free people can be trusted - to at the very least disagree. ;-]

I will do my research and again much thanks to you all.

TenTen

29 posted on 05/13/2009 6:14:40 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: jurroppi1

My current AMD box has been up and running since 2003. I haven’t had the issues you seem to be implying.


30 posted on 05/13/2009 6:15:08 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

What chip are you running?


31 posted on 05/13/2009 6:21:55 AM PDT by jurroppi1 (We need to reward the people that carry the water instead of the people that drink the water!)
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To: paudio

This is what the US will look like soon if the Zero gets his way.


32 posted on 05/13/2009 6:22:27 AM PDT by southlake_hoosier (.... One Nation, Under God.......)
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To: southlake_hoosier

Euro Commies can pound sand. Intel should just refuse to pay. What will the Euroweenies use for computers, counting on their fingers? They can get to 20 if they take their shoes off. We should boycott ALL Euro products. Hear that Beemer owners?


33 posted on 05/13/2009 6:26:54 AM PDT by AUH2O Repub (Palin/Sanford 2012)
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To: jurroppi1
Rev. C0 Athlon 940-pin on an Asus SK8-V board. 4GB Infineon. ATI X800 Pro.

In dire need of an upgrade on the whole system. This one runs so good though that I may just upgrade the video to an ATI 3850 AGP and let my kids have it for a gamer box.

My next box will more than likely be a Phenom quad-core with a pair of SLI something or others. I'm waiting to see what the dogfight between AMD/ATI and nVidia tosses at us next.

34 posted on 05/13/2009 6:28:18 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: paudio

Computers and computer chips produce ozone during operation.
Ozone has therapeutic uses.

Therefore, computers and computer chips can be classified as a drug.

The FDA should simply settle this by taking over all of the computer industry like it is going after cherrios.


35 posted on 05/13/2009 6:32:19 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: Dead Corpse

Don’t give your kids an old box for gaming. That would be very frustrating for them. It’d be best to build one or two cheap (Intel) Wolfdale CPU-based systems (CPU, board, video and RAM). Look for a board with integrated video to save a few dollars. The Wolfdale systems (CPU + board) are inexpensive and can be aggressively overclocked. I have mine running at 4.9Ghz on 1150Mhz DDR2 RAM.


36 posted on 05/13/2009 6:44:10 AM PDT by Justa (I)
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To: Safrguns

No wonder I’m so hungry after surfing the web... Munchies and MIPS.


37 posted on 05/13/2009 6:59:49 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Post-Neolithic

Intel Math CPU problem...

Oh, that's an old wives tale ;)

The Pentium Papers -- ARCHIVED

It's only a problem if you're doing silly things like:
  - building skyscrapers that must be precisely balanced
  - simulating aircraft aerodynamics
  - balancing monetary systems (sadly, it can't be scapegoated to explain where all of our tax dollars have been going...)

38 posted on 05/13/2009 7:02:22 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: paudio
Since when should companies be forced to sell products from all providers? If I own a grocery store and refuse to sell Kraft products (for whatever reason - maybe I don't like the name!), no crime has been committed. But if I do the same thing at the behest of payment from Nestle, we are now both guilty of collusion (despite the consumer being in the same position as when no payment was involved, Kraft being in the same position, and Nestle actually being in a WORSE position by virtue of having paid me).

Though a much different principle is taught, this analogy connotes a similar theme to that in "the fallacy of the broken window" (Bastiat). Namely, that some economists speak of economic benefit being derived via the actions of a young boy who breaks a window (because the owner of the window must then pay the glazier for a repair, which presumably has a "stimulative" effect upon the local economy - neglecting the potential uses the owner would have put that money toward in the absence of the accident), but most universally identify it to be a crime if the glazier had in turn paid the young boy a small fee to break the window in the first place.

39 posted on 05/13/2009 7:10:34 AM PDT by M203M4 (A rainbow-excreting government-cheese-pie-eating unicorn in every pot.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Being successful is a crime now apparently.

No, but underhanded efforts to squeeze out any competition ARE illegal.

Read the article, FRiend.

40 posted on 05/13/2009 7:12:48 AM PDT by TChris (There is no freedom without the possibility of failure.)
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To: M203M4
Since when should companies be forced to sell products from all providers?

The problem is when a monopoly hinders others from entering a market. One example: Let's assume I run a fictional autoworkers union and have valid contracts with both some big Midwestern automakers and suppliers around the county. Now let's assume a Japanese competitor, Toyohonda want's to build a factory in non-unionized Texas, but needs suppliers. But due to my contracts I can prevent these suppliers from cooperating with Toyohonda, either forcing the Japanese out or forcing them to get unionized.
41 posted on 05/13/2009 7:26:39 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

No, not always. Just recently.

AMD was longevity / performance king for many many years and I’m sure after the retool they are working on now they can beat out Intel again. (with a integrated gpu/cpu combo if done right)

Its just a back and forth - with the noted observance that this gen round however - Intel pulled way far ahead horsepower wise in the cpu market.


42 posted on 05/13/2009 7:29:33 AM PDT by midmoschmo
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To: driftdiver

“Heck Intel stole technology from Digital and got away with it” Can you tell me what the heck you are talking about?

Intel was accused by Bill Palmer, the then CEO of Digital and now a director at AMD, of stealing Digital technology at a time that when Digital was running out of money going broke. Digital obviously couldn’t prove their claim and they settled and Digital did not receive anything for their claim that Intel stole their secrets and Intel ended up the buying Digital’s losing money fab in Hudson, Mass. The fab is still one of Intel fabs and apparently operated at a profit. Digital at its demise was carved up into pieces, some went here and some went there. Digital engineers went to both Intel and AMD.

AMD two fabs are in the EU and are heavily subsidized by the EU. However on March 2, 2009 AMD in a spin off transferred the fabs to GlobalFoundries which is a company 65% owned by the government of Abu Dhabi and 35% owned by AMD.


43 posted on 05/13/2009 7:29:42 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: Post-Neolithic

For more recent examples:
I got one of the Wolfdales with the bad temp sensor in it.

Doesn’t matter much though - running 4ghz+ without a temp increase anyway so it was a moot point - but still: their fault for crappy quality control. I could probably push this thing up high enough to degrade it because of the volt increase without a temp increase even: but any way you want to slice it the cpu is still “defective” because of that temp sensor. As it is, I wish I had some more accurate readings from the onboard instead of having to use a secondary sensor to read the temp.

I can’t complain about the raw performance however as it rocks socks. My point is just that your right - they have a history of shipping bad cpu’s.

However in fairness - AMD has had its own issues as well - just not anywhere near as many as Intel.


44 posted on 05/13/2009 7:41:36 AM PDT by midmoschmo
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To: paudio

This sort of shakedown of large companies is in America’s future, too.
0bama has recently promised to strengthen “anti-trust” laws and use them to go after big corporations and technology leaders like Intel.

The Dark Ages are approaching.
I guess Moore’s Law will finally be broken.


45 posted on 05/13/2009 7:43:12 AM PDT by counterpunch (In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.)
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To: wolf78

In this example, why should Toyohonda be in any way able to use the force of government to interfere with the contractual terms between other private entities? Interference at defacto gunpoint in such matters is an assault against freedom of association (as are unions whose creation is based on votes instead of a sum of voluntary associations, but that is another matter).


46 posted on 05/13/2009 7:45:59 AM PDT by M203M4 (A rainbow-excreting government-cheese-pie-eating unicorn in every pot.)
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To: AUH2O Repub

Actually 22 or 23.


47 posted on 05/13/2009 7:50:07 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
As mentioned in an earlier post. Intel ‘stole’ the Alpha technology from Digital. DEC sued and got a billion. What was ironic was that DEC then sold the plant and the technology to Intel.
48 posted on 05/13/2009 7:55:03 AM PDT by sleepwalker (Palin 2012)
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To: paudio

I’m not comletely familiar with the details of this case, but I’m kind of amazed that the EU can take money from a US company so easily. Where will it stop? The US should find BMW in violation of our laws and order them to pay 2Billion.

And so the games begin.


49 posted on 05/13/2009 8:00:53 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: Justa

They are ages 5 and 2. By the time they are old enough to step up to a real system, I’ll have something else built. ;-)


50 posted on 05/13/2009 8:07:26 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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