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'Gay' Gene Claim Suddenly Vanishes
World Net Daily ^ | May 13, 2009 | Bob Unruh

Posted on 05/13/2009 7:07:43 AM PDT by conservativegramma

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To: r9etb
...no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors.

As a former member of the APA before I quit in disgust, I know how to read their language. What they are actually saying is that despite substantial research efforts to identify a genetic factor, there has been no such factor identified.

You can't ever draw the conclusion that "there is no gay gene" because someday some bright researcher just might stumble across it. But so far and after years of searching, they haven't found it yet.

In the comparison to the previous edition of the brochure, this is a definite backtracking, and reflects lack of success in the "search for the gene." The rest of the stuff is about nature and nurture and is standard boilerplate.

151 posted on 05/13/2009 7:20:18 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard
Did you ever get a chance to read Destructive Trends in Mental Health?
152 posted on 05/13/2009 7:29:22 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
No that is not what I am saying. I am saying that for some people, there is a progression, much as for some mild drugs lead to more and more dangerous drugs. With sexual matters, again SOME people seek an ever increasing need for more and more danger, more and more degeneration, as what ever they do regularly satisfies them less. They then seek more danger, more risky, call it what you will. Soon it takes more and more danger or risk to satisfy them.

Not for ALL homosexuals, but for some who seem to decide later in life, it can explain what happens. Others have been abused, or simply introduced to homosexual acts at a very vulnerable age, when their curiosity is peeked. Women (A lot of them!) are lesbians because they can seek pleasure without what they deem danger, of pregnancy. Some are what is called 4 year lesbians, through college.

Bottom line, there are many reasons they choose the lifestyle, it isn't as simply as why, but it is a behavior and a choice.

But they are NOT born that way.

153 posted on 05/13/2009 9:02:14 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: hinckley buzzard
What they are actually saying is that despite substantial research efforts to identify a genetic factor, there has been no such factor identified.

Not quite. They're saying it's not any single factor, it's some complicated mixture of factors, of which genetics is probably a component. Nor can they isolate it to any other single factor -- such as "it's a choice".

Mr. Unruh, however, has no time for such subtleties. He, like WND in general, is more interested in his agenda.

154 posted on 05/13/2009 9:02:56 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: gidget7
But they are NOT born that way.

Are you sure? You've certainly got an opinion on the matter, but if you ask a homosexual, he'll very likely tell you that he's always been that way, and at least some of those guys will be telling you the truth.

The question of "why" is probably far more complicated than you want it to be.

155 posted on 05/13/2009 9:07:54 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Sorry, Bob. That's not what the statement actually says.

Well, at least it's an improvement over what it used to say.

A few years ago, looking for educational books about genetics to give to my children, I noticed many stated that there is a gay gene, as if the issue was settled and there was no doubt. At least the new statement is more balanced.

156 posted on 05/13/2009 9:54:31 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: r9etb
In this case the messenger is being dishonest ... so, yeah, I'll attack him.

It has yet to be determined if you are being as dishonest as you claim them to be. We shall see.

157 posted on 05/13/2009 10:42:30 PM PDT by the808bass
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To: r9etb
Not according to Unruh. For example, he drags out another "expert:"

Douglas Abbott, a University of Nebraska professor, concluded, "If homosexuality was caused by genetic mechanisms, their children would be more likely to choose same-sex interaction. But they aren't more likely, so therefore it can't be genetic." Unruh's point is clear and obvious. Whether it's correct is another matter.

When Douglas Abbot says "caused by genetic mechanisms" he is referring to a one-to-one correspondence between genetics and, in this case, sexuality. There is no one-to-one correspondence between sexuality and genetics, therefore, in context, "it can't be genetic." It is really quite simple.

158 posted on 05/13/2009 10:45:41 PM PDT by the808bass
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To: r9etb
if you ask a homosexual, he'll very likely tell you that he's always been that way, and at least some of those guys will be telling you the truth.

You're questioning WND as a source, but you also should question what someone tells you. Not even a person himself knows all of the factors involved in his own development. He may believe he was born-that-way, but that doesn't make it true; he himself probably doesn't know.

159 posted on 05/13/2009 10:52:16 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: conservativegramma

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. I had come to the personal conclusion years ago that homosexuality is a mental disorder, a form of narcissism due to injury in the object management phase of development. The core definition of narcissism is “falling in love with one’s own image”. What could be more that definition than homosexuality? We are a product of our thought process more than anything else IMHO. As goes the brain so goes the body. As far as a cure, some psychologists say you can cure adult narcissism but most also agree it is a job for only the truly masochistic.


160 posted on 05/13/2009 11:01:15 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("If youÂ’re drawing flak, you know you're over the target".)
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To: longtermmemmory

Either born that way, or lifestyle choice, I’ll never be convinced it’s worth taxpayer dollars to investigate.

Activist judges almost always take the side of the percieved oppressed, the fact that the highest court in the land did not acknowledge the civil rights struggle of the past(aka true opression) in a Constitutional way, and then only now goes about thier way redfining the 14th, is an abuse of thier power, and an affront to the Constitution.

I say let those that wish to play games, play. But I belive that the American public wants this to be a states issue, and the Supreme court should stay out of it.


161 posted on 05/14/2009 12:57:14 AM PDT by ChetNavVet (Build It, and they won't come!)
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To: r9etb
Are you sure?

After decades of trying, they still haven't found a gay gene. All the scientific studies point to trivial genetic components and much more substantial environmental factors.

Ex-gays exist.

People like Charlene Cothran who ran Venus Magazine for lesbians left the lesbian lifestyle and now uses her magazine to help others leave the lesbian lifestyle.

Michael Glatze was co-founder of Young Gay American Magazine. He left the gay life and the magazine.

The People Can Change site has some helpful information, including their Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences article.

In Their Own Words: Gay Activists Speak About Science, Morality, Philosophy: The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science

Dr. Robert L. Spitzer played a pivotal role in the 1973 decision by the APA to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder. Spitzer used to believe homosexuals couldn't change but after studying the results of therapy he now believes homosexuals can change: Spitzer Study Published: Evidence Found for Effectiveness of Reorientation Therapy.

And one place to find a huge list of articles: Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links.

For reasons of their own, some people prefer to remain ignorant of the science of homosexuality. To understand the complicated issues of sexuality, an educated opinion can be formed after reading the information at the above links.

162 posted on 05/14/2009 7:31:57 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

Thanks.


163 posted on 05/14/2009 8:19:16 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: conservativegramma
Interesting comments:

Regarding change and the right to treatment, lesbian activist Camille Paglia offered the following observations:

"Homosexuality is not 'normal.' On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm...Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction...No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous...homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait.....

"Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is refractory, once the sensory pathways have been blazed and deepened by repetition-a phenomenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction....helping gays to learn to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perfectly worthy aim.

"We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pause a the prepubescent stage where children anxiously band together by gender....current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice,' that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."

Source Paglia, C., Vamps and tramps. New York: Vintage Books. 1994, pp. 70, 72, 76, 77, 78, 91

164 posted on 05/14/2009 10:01:18 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

Now that really is interesting...........

Thanks!


165 posted on 05/14/2009 10:13:54 AM PDT by conservativegramma ((No taxation without constitutional representation!))
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To: scripter

Ms Paglia is a Leftie I can respect, not that I agree with her views, but she always calls on the Left to acknowledge reality and admit their behavior is what it is instead of lying about it.


166 posted on 05/14/2009 10:29:57 AM PDT by kalee (01/20/13 The end of an error.... Obama even worse than Carter.)
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To: conservativegramma
You are quite welcome. The information at the source should be read by everybody. It's a little long but well worth the read as it provides a summary of the scientific evidence on homosexuality... from gay activists.
167 posted on 05/14/2009 10:30:37 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: gidget7

Most of what you said makes sense. But, why do you insist that they aren’t born this way? Please use logic and thought rather than a recitation of your religous books.


168 posted on 05/14/2009 3:10:15 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: scripter

I don’t know why your agenda is but you are saying that gays aren’t born that way because scientists have not identified a “gay gene”? I hope your logic is much deeper than this because that is really a pathetic example of logic.


169 posted on 05/14/2009 3:12:02 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
Babies are born asexual. They have no idea about sex. It is learned, modeled as they grow. Sorry but between scriptor, me and others, you have been given several different examples, put them together. There is no simple one reason for any behavior people engage in. But one thing is very clear, you are not born to engage in any behavior, no matter what that behavior is. EVERY behavior is a product of your own environment, factors that invade it, that influence it, and their affects on a growing child.
170 posted on 05/14/2009 3:35:48 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: gidget7
It is learned, modeled as they grow.

So you are saying that people learn to be attracted to the opposite sex? If this is what you are saying then we are through with our discussion because that's one of the most idiotic things I've read in a long, long time.

171 posted on 05/14/2009 3:46:22 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: gidget7
"EVERY behavior is a product of your own environment, factors that invade it, that influence it, and their affects on a growing child."

I hate to bring it up to you, but certain things, like eating and drinking and gasp: SEXUAL ATTRACTION are instinct and are not learned. It's hard to believe that you could be so foolish.

172 posted on 05/14/2009 3:48:34 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
Hahahaha No it isn't. BEHAVIOR is not innate, none of it. Normal attraction to the opposite sex, once puberty hits, is instinct yes. But abnormal behavior, whether sexual or not, is a perversion of the natural process.

You won't win any debates here. We deal in reality, not in ideology.Homosexuality is no more instinctive than vibrators, animal lust, having sex in public places, or anything else people may do to get a thrill.

If what you want is to promote “born that way”, you might want to try elsewhere. It doesn't make any sense to anyone who faces reality.

173 posted on 05/14/2009 3:59:12 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

Ya think?? It was finished a while ago!


174 posted on 05/14/2009 4:00:36 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
Sigh.

Gays have been saying for decades they are born that way. Gays have been saying there is a gay gene. Science disagrees, vehemently. Even gay activists who are scientists disagree. I'll side with the scientists.

What's pathetic is your attempt to use misdirection.

If you're under the impression gays are born that way, then by all means, provide something in support of that thought. The thing is, I know you can't.

175 posted on 05/14/2009 4:41:11 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

If someone was born and then raised on an island with no human influence would they still have sexual urges? Upon meeting another person of the same sex and someone from the opposite sex for the very first time, what (who) would they do with the sexual urge?

A gay gene? They haven’t identified millions of genes yet. That they haven’t identified it yet doesn’t prove anything. Have they identified a gene that makes humans have an attraction to the opposite sex? Sigh is right.


176 posted on 05/14/2009 5:18:28 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: gidget7

Whatever you say bucko.


177 posted on 05/14/2009 5:19:44 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
You have all the talking points of somebody pushing the homosexual agenda. And you appear to be completely clueless in regards to biology. Biology most definitely supports opposite sex sexual relations.

Here's another for you:

Prominent research teams Byne and Parsons, and also Friedman and Downey, each concluded that there was no evidence to support a biologic theory, but rather that homosexuality could be best explained by an alternative model where "temperamental and personality traits interact with the familial and social milieu as the individual's sexuality emerges" (Byne and Parsons, 1993; Friedman and Downey, 1993).

178 posted on 05/14/2009 8:45:54 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
And, bucko, you might want to educate yourself, just a little: All About The Human Genome Project

"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Concludes Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project

By all means keep typing — It's a huge detriment to your credibility.

179 posted on 05/14/2009 8:56:08 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

I’ve read most of what he said. Let me ask you this question: is normal heterosexual activity hard wired?


180 posted on 05/15/2009 12:46:55 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: scripter

I am not pushing anything other than a logic based discussion. You are posting things from sites dedicated to proving that homosexuals chose their behavior. I will wait to hear your answer to whether we heterosexuals derive our desire from hard wired genes or “temperamental and personality traits interact with the familial and social milieu as the individual’s sexuality emerges”

Aside from this I give credence to people who say that they’ve always (since their first sexual awareness) felt homosexual. It is extreme arogance on your part to insist that they have no idea what they are talking about and actually made a conscious choice to be homo.

Let me get to the bottom line though: why does it matter to you if someone chooses it or is born that way? Why the obsession with what other adults choose to do in the privacy of their own homes? You don’t have enough in life to worry about or are you fighting your own demons? I’m asking with sincerety.


181 posted on 05/15/2009 12:51:51 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

You’re just bouncing all over the place trying to change the subject and using misdirection. As somebody else pointed out, we deal with reality.


182 posted on 05/15/2009 1:47:21 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I am not pushing anything other than a logic based discussion.

No, you're not. You've tried to change the subject. Tried to use misdirection. Misrepresented what others have said and on and on. How's that logic working for you? Not too well? Then let me make a suggestion. Stop trying to change the subject. Stop using misdirection and stop misrepresenting others.

You are posting things from sites dedicated to proving that homosexuals chose their behavior.

Here's yet another misrepresentation of the sites I've listed. You don't get to change the subject.

Aside from this I give credence to people who say that they’ve always (since their first sexual awareness) felt homosexual.

That's nice. I know people, some of them freepers, who said the same thing and are now ex-gay.

It is extreme arogance on your part to insist that they have no idea what they are talking about and actually made a conscious choice to be homo.

And here you are again, misrepresenting what I've said.

Let me get to the bottom line though: why does it matter to you if someone chooses it or is born that way?

Why does it matter to you what I do with my time?

Why the obsession with what other adults choose to do in the privacy of their own homes?

And you continue misrepresenting my position.

You don’t have enough in life to worry about or are you fighting your own demons?

Ooh, ooh, my favorite! Straight from After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's. This is talking point #11 which you can read in post 10 here. It's also a combination of talking points 19, 20 and 43.

I’m asking with sincerety [sic].

Yeah, you're just dripping with it.

183 posted on 05/15/2009 1:47:26 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter
It's obvious that you are dealing with your own demons on the issue.

The fact that you know some ex-gay people doesn't mean that all gays can become ex-gay. Either way, I am done with you. You are not of the caliber person that I would bother with in real life and I should've never wasted time with you on the internet. Good bye.

184 posted on 05/15/2009 8:34:15 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
In post 129 you said:
I am not going to argue with you because I really don’t care either way.
And then you couldn't stop making blunder after blunder; so I agree, you're in way over your head.
185 posted on 05/15/2009 9:17:42 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

I could have beaten you in a debate even when I was 12 years old. You are a waste of bandwidth (and oxygen). bye.


186 posted on 05/17/2009 7:32:03 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I could have beaten you in a debate even when I was 12 years old.

Prove your assertion or run away yet again. You have consistently made blunder after blunder. You've been caught trying to change the subject and using misdirection and here you are using a pitiful ad hominem attack.

You are a waste of bandwidth (and oxygen). bye.

This is the third time you've put your tail between your legs and run away.

Perhaps you should return when you can convince lesbian activist Camille Paglia that your position has any merit. Here is what she said, from post 164:

"Homosexuality is not 'normal.' On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm...Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction...No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous...homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait.....

"Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is refractory, once the sensory pathways have been blazed and deepened by repetition-a phenomenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction....helping gays to learn to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perfectly worthy aim.

"We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pause a the prepubescent stage where children anxiously band together by gender....current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice,' that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."

The good news is you can start over with me anytime you want, but you have to stop playing games. That means stop trying to change the subject, stop using misdirection and stop the personal attacks.
187 posted on 05/17/2009 11:12:04 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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