Skip to comments.'Restricting H-1B to Hurt US Economy'
Posted on 05/16/2009 2:57:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Asserting that "handcuffing" employers from hiring talented workers will hurt the US economy, two experts have criticised proposals
to limit hiring of holders of H-1B visas coveted by Indian technocrats as "misguided."
"In order to grow the American economy and support the American workforce, Congress should expand and improve the H-1B visa programme," said James Sherk and Diem Nguyen.
As adding regulations to the H-1B programme would be a serious setback to US visa policy and would only end up hurting the US economy, the Congress should instead raise the cap from the current 65,000 to the 2001 quota of 195,000 visas a year, they said.
Sherk is a fellow in labour policy and Nguyen is a research assistant for foreign policy studies at The Heritage Foundation, a Washington think tank.
Referring to reports that two senators, Republican Chuck Grassley and Democrat Dick Durbin plan to introduce a bill that would limit the ability of companies to hire H-1B employees, the experts said an argument that H-1B visa recipients are a threat to American workers is "misguided."
"Given the current economic climate, handcuffing employers from hiring talented workers will hurt-not help-the economy, further delaying the ability of businesses to restart the national economic engine," Sherk and Nguyen said.
Many believe H-1B workers merely compete with Americans looking for work, the duo said. But "They are wrong. The US workforce is not a 'zero-sum game, " they said.
"One hired H-1B worker does not mean an American is out of a job. In fact, the National Foundation for American Policy found that employers hired four new American workers for each new H-1B employee they hire."
I have found H-1B workers to be results oriented but technically pretty awful.
It would be great if they were to drop the H1-B program completely. My fellow Americans, who are pretty good, would get jobs they give to Indians, who suck.
I’ll be happy to import thousands of cheap Indian think tank researchers so Mr Sherk and Nguyen can be replaced by the Heritage foundation.
I’m confused. I thought it was the illegals who made our economy robust.
Four workers to one H1B...
Give them to the qualified American workers first.
BTW, how does the tax structure work re: H1B’s, the same as workers and employers here?
Were you working at the company they were employed? Why did the company spend all that money to hire an awful employee?
They are taxed in the same manner as American citizens and permanent residents, IIRC, along with having to fulfil the tax obligations to the native country. Not completely sure, though.
I don’t know exactly how it works, but I know it’s $20-$30k up front in legal costs. I’ve heard it suggested that they should increase taxes for companies that employ workers with this Visa.
One of my college friends (IT tech/programmer with a masters in computer science and a BA in math) despises the H1-B program. Where he used to work, he has seen such programs gut IT/programmer salaries and job positions.
In some places, you feel like a low-wage widget (Masters degress at 25k-30k BA’s are even less) because the H1-B’s have driven down the market. WHAT A SICK JOKE!!!
He left his hometown and is elsewhere (and quite happy). Last year, he got a call from his old employer asking for help. Seems taht the “cheap labor” (both inside the US and outsourced in India) couldn’t cut the mustard and they wanted the old-timers back. He response was “once bitten twice shy”...end of call.
Here are three of them.
I have found the same. I read something interesting (yet consistent with my observations) a few months back, written by an Indian American that maintained that most H1-Bs exaggerated their experience and gave examples of women programmers who were calling their husbands back home to walk them through their work. A lot of them get PMP credentials, passing the test, but without the experience that is supposed to go behind it.
Management fad, most likely.
“One of my college friends (IT tech/programmer with a masters in computer science and a BA in math) despises the H1-B program. Where he used to work, he has seen such programs gut IT/programmer salaries and job positions.”
My wife can confirm this as well. This program was never intended to provide cheap labor to American employers but, instead, to offer training to foreign workers that they could take back to their own countries of origin.
I wouldn’t think that millions of unemployed Americans were exactly working wonders for the economy.
It's wet, it's green, and there's loads of the stuff, Get your, Bull Sh*t here.
James Sherk and Diem Nguyen need to be outsourced.
If we didn’t have these H-1B programs in the first place, there might be more effort to improve our public school teaching of science, math, and other traditional subjects, instead of brainwashing them in political correctness.
Also, there might be more people taking engineering and tech degrees if they felt assured of getting a good job. But for the past couple of decades, graduating Americans have had to contend with cheaper imports.
The Einsteins of the world, the best, do not go the H-1B route. They are given gold plated invitations. H-1Bs are the ordinary workers that sell on price, not talent.
Are you on drugs? Seriously. Or do you work in an industry that isn't touched by reality?
>>Were you working at the company they were employed? Why did the company spend all that money to hire an awful employee?
They get non-sustainable results.
“What is the definition of an asset?”
Proper technical answer based on how the system works: Cross check the account for account type.
Indian H1B Answer based on asking questions of functional users who don’t understand the fundamental system architecture: “a ‘1’ in the first digit.”
My code: check the account type on the account master (inner join for performance).
Indian code: Look for a “1” in the first digit.
New Controller comes on board and resequences the account master. All Indian code fails. My code has no problem since it looks at the underlying definitions.
Multiply that by a thousand and you will see that H1-B hires are penny wise and thousand dollar foolish.
A little donkey.
>>A little donkey.
I don’t want to but I am LOL...
I work with Indian workers right now (in an offshore center) and have worked with many H-1Bs. Generally I’ve found them to be technically competent, but their communication skills are almost uniformly horrible. A lot of the reason I’m a testing manager on client-server systems when my tech background is almost completely mainframe, is simply because I have decent English skills and can clean up their documentation. That, and there are some people who simply will not work with offshore testers, in which case I get to be the friendly Anglo face on the operation while the offshore guys do most all the grunt work.
>>I work with Indian workers right now (in an offshore center) and have worked with many H-1Bs. Generally Ive found them to be technically competent
Yes, but they can’t seem to get beyond what is in front of them. It isn’t so much English skills (although I had one client make it clear that there will be NO Indians directly communicating with them) as it is their inability to see beyond the immediate task and not understand context.
Indians are coders, pure and simple. One step above punch-card operators of old.
For commodities, the profit is in economy of scale, so the more units sold, the better for the manufacturer, in the short term. There are two problems with this. "Race to the bottom" applies not just to wages, but to margin. And once you've killed the high-wage, high-price-point buyers, EVERYone competes solely on price, so you lose a lot of the ability to brand.
The second is what we're seeing out of China and (somewhat) in India--mercantilism, in the form of dumping of labor; blackmail, in the form of "give us your intellectual property, and subsidies, or we won't open our markets to you"; and competition, in the form of "we'll learn how to make ripoffs of your products, establish a client base in our own country supported by nationalistic pride and tariffs, and then export a cheaper competitive product to YOUR country, thanks for giving us the know-how in the name of "cultural diversity" and short-term profits, suckers."
Because the Morons With MBAs® have a slot in their spreadsheets for "Payroll" and none for "Productivity".
You have got to be kidding me. I have family members on H-1B who have stayed here for more than a decade.
These folks take away jobs from Americans.
Bingo. You have hit the nail on the head. H-1B makes employers tolerant of our pathetic public education systems.
These guys are on top of this: http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/congress/proposed-bills/foreign-worker-visas.html
Resorts owners are trying to FLOOD the market with SKILLED FOREIGN employees and keep the wages they have to pay to SKILLED AMERICAN workers low! Think Vail Resorts, Int (VRI) and Rock Resorts to name a couple.
My experience with Indians is, that they are still mired in the cast system and have a group think attitude. If you get a really sh*itty brahmin in the group you get really sh*tty results. Individual initiative is not known or tolerated. Their chief asset is they work pretty cheap.
Why would the Times of India care, aren’t these people an asset to their country?
Oh man, I had just figured it was the cause for global warming!!
“One hired H-1B worker does not mean an American is out of a job. In fact, the National Foundation for American Policy found that employers hired four new American workers for each new H-1B employee they hire.”
“Why did the company spend all that money to hire an awful employee?”
because they are cheaper, generally the thought is if they cost half as much then its ok to need twice as many.
“Multiply that by a thousand and you will see that H1-B hires are penny wise and thousand dollar foolish.”
I’ve seen companies spend 3x’s as much to document the requirements and 3x’s as much to test. So they can save money by coding offshore 3x’s to get it past QA.
America is for Americans and it is full.
This program was never intended to provide cheap labor to American employers but, instead, to offer training to foreign workers that they could take back to their own countries of origin.
Q&A With Senator Barack Obama On Key Technology Issues
November 26, 2007
Immigration and H1B Visas
MA: What is your position on H1B visas in general? Do you believe the number of H1B visas should be increased?
BO: Highly skilled immigrants have contributed significantly to our domestic technology industry. But we have a skills shortage, not a worker shortage. There are plenty of Americans who could be filling tech jobs given the proper training. I am committed to investing in communities and people who have not had an opportunity to work and participate in the Internet economy as anything other than consumers. Most H-1B new arrivals, for example, have earned a bachelors degree or its equivalent abroad (42.5%). They are not all PhDs. We can and should produce more Americans with bachelors degrees that lead to jobs in technology. A report of the National Science Foundation (NSF) reveals that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans as a whole comprise more that 25% of the population but earn, as a whole, 16% of the bachelor degrees, 11% of the masters degrees, and 5% of the doctorate degrees in science and engineering. We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industrys need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the worlds most talented people to America. We should allow immigrants who earn their degrees in the U.S. to stay, work, and become Americans over time. As part of our comprehensive reform, we should examine our ability to replace a stopgap increase in the number of H1B visas with an increase in the number of permanent visas we issue to foreign skilled workers. I will also work to ensure immigrant workers are less dependent on their employers for their right to stay in the country and would hold accountable employers who abuse the system and their workers.
It should be Americans first for jobs. I have been to New Zealand and I have a desire to move there but they take care of their own first, we should do the same but we don’t. The laws are written of, for and by executives. Everyone else including shareholders be damned.
BS indeed. It’s debunked here (correlation is not causation — the company probably just hired a lot of people).
“Anderson is hardly an unbiased researcher. He’s been making a living writing articles supporting the H-1B program since the mid-1990s, hired for example by the Information Technology of America, one of the major lobbyists for an expanded H-1B program. Though he is not saying who his present employer is, the fact that the lobbyists who quote him the most are immigration attorneys would seem to point to the American Immigration Lawyers Association or their American Immigration Law Foundation is his main funder.”
“The best analogy I can draw about Stuart Anderson is something that an INS agent said to me: If you were going to hire someone to run the DEA, you wouldn’t pick somebody who favors legalizing drugs,” says a top Republican aide on the Hill. “And by putting Stuart Anderson in a ranking position in the INS, you’ve essentially done the same thing-—you’ve got somebody who favors open borders running the agency that regulates the borders.”
I’ve seen it first hand. Company’s want cheap labor and quality really isn’t a consideration. I’ve seen a team of 6 who always “worked together”. One was good and 5 were clueless. The one did all the work but certainly didn’t do the work of 6.
I’ve seen HR departments collect resumes of Americans then change the job description to show they couldn’t find a qualified person. So they HAD to use H1s.
In their wet dreams.
The truth is that the H-1B was used as a back door to import hundreds of thousands (65k+/yr * 10+yrs) of low-wage (and in I.T, pretty low-skill) Indian visa workers. Many were exploited by their Indian bodyshoppers. There was NEVER a word about that from NASSCOM or Whadha.
But all of the sudden, they acknowledge the corruption and abuse of their fellow Indians, and act like they care.
And this sordid outsourcing program has impacted 3-4 million American hi-tech professionals. Some have been forced totally out of the industry. Many have have seen their wages decline. Some have been forced to train their Indian replacement.
It is sad chapter in the history of United States business — and one day the journalists, corporate execs, politicians, professors, and lobbyists that helped facilitate this legal discrimination of Americans will hold their head in shame.
I had no idea he was in the center of this whole H-1B mess.