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Are hate crimes any worse than others?
Boston Globe ^ | May 17, 2009 | Jeff Jacoby

Posted on 05/17/2009 3:16:34 AM PDT by MartinaMisc

LEGISLATION pending before Congress would dramatically expand the federal hate-crimes law, and a number of critics are concerned that the bill goes too far. Perhaps the real problem is that it doesn't go far enough.

Under current law, crimes motivated by bias against a victim's race, color, religion, or national origin can be prosecuted by the federal government, so long as the victim had been engaged in a "federally-protected activity" - attending a public school, for example, or being in a place of public accommodation or entertainment. The proposed Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which passed the House last month and is pending in the Senate, would significantly broaden the federal government's reach.

The bill, named for a gay college student beaten to death in Wyoming in 1998, would add four new categories of hate crimes to the federal code: those committed because of someone's sex, sexual orientation, gender (or transgender) identity, and disability. It would eliminate the prerequisite of a "federally-protected activity" and require instead only the loosest connection to interstate commerce. And the proposed legislation would make it far easier for defendants acquitted in state court to be retried at the federal level - a circumvention of the Fifth Amendment's protection against double jeopardy that has prompted four members of the US Civil Rights Commission to publicly oppose the bill.

If enacted, the law will almost certainly be challenged in court. The Constitution does not grant the federal government any general police power - prosecuting crime is primarily a state and local responsibility - and it is far from clear that the Supreme Court would go along with a congressional attempt to federalize such a broad swath of criminal law.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: hatecrimes; jeffjacoby; thoughtpolice

1 posted on 05/17/2009 3:16:34 AM PDT by MartinaMisc
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To: MartinaMisc

How can you pass legislation that punishes a person based on how he/she felt at the time of the crime? That is why the standard of law should be: “What did this person do that was a harm to others or himself, and was that behavior against the law?” Period.

Congress is so out of control it is unbelievable. Everyone one of them, except those who are for limited Federal government, needs to be voted out of office. Then we vote in people who understand how to govern our country.


2 posted on 05/17/2009 3:36:41 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: MartinaMisc

Yoo mus’ be racis’...


3 posted on 05/17/2009 3:39:13 AM PDT by Old Sarge (There is no god)
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To: MartinaMisc

Hate Crime = Thought Crime


4 posted on 05/17/2009 3:51:02 AM PDT by DaiHuy (')
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To: MartinaMisc
"Are hate crimes any worse than others?"

Nope.

5 posted on 05/17/2009 3:51:44 AM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: MartinaMisc

Are hate crimes any worse than others?

The basic truth is all crime is nurtured by hate.
A Husband kills his wife and kids.At some point he loved them.How could he now kill them unless the opposite was true,he now hates them.
The bank robber hates that everyone has more then he does and his hate tells him the easy way to change that is to rob a bank.
The current HATE CRIME laws are not about crime reduction or about law.They are about re-eduction of the poeple to moralities that previosly were unacceptable to society.Hate Crimes laws are Politic Laws not Crime Laws...


6 posted on 05/17/2009 3:55:04 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: DennisR

Then we vote in people who understand how to govern our country.

There seems to be a great deal of confusion among the voting public, as to how to govern our country.


7 posted on 05/17/2009 3:57:47 AM PDT by wita
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To: MartinaMisc

Hitler would have been proud.


8 posted on 05/17/2009 4:07:31 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (To stand up for Capitalism is to hope Teleprompter Boy fails.)
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To: wita

Yes. Which pretty much discounts liberals and many Republicans. The ones we need to get out of there are the ones whose motto is, “My Utopia is better than your Utopia, and just watch how much money I can spend to reach my Utopia.”

Congress is a very inept group of people.


9 posted on 05/17/2009 4:12:35 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: MartinaMisc

Hate crime equals thought crime.

Orwell was a prophet of sorts.

I am very afraid.


10 posted on 05/17/2009 4:13:21 AM PDT by Ronin (Moderate Taliban? Oxymoron. Obama voters? Plain morons.)
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To: DennisR

> How can you pass legislation that punishes a person based on how he/she felt at the time of the crime?

That’s easy, and the Courts do it all the time. Establishing “intent” makes the difference between Manslaughter and Murder.

NOTE: I’m not in favor of Hate Crime legislation. I’m merely answering your question.


11 posted on 05/17/2009 4:23:51 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DennisR

Congress is a very inept group of people.

You are too kind, considering the fact that Barney and Chris should be indicted for abject stupidity, as well as gross malfeasance in office, but I love your tag line.


12 posted on 05/17/2009 4:25:06 AM PDT by wita
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To: DieHard the Hunter

“Intent” is not a feeling. It is a choice, an intention. Big difference.


13 posted on 05/17/2009 4:26:42 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: MartinaMisc
Are hate crimes any worse than others?

YES........ if you are accused of committing one.

14 posted on 05/17/2009 4:30:58 AM PDT by Roccus (The Capitol, the White House, the Court House...........America's Axis of Evil)
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To: DennisR
Congress is a very inept group of people.

Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.

Congressman is the trivialist distinction for a full grown man. -

All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.
- Mark Twain

15 posted on 05/17/2009 4:31:35 AM PDT by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: DennisR

> “Intent” is not a feeling. It is a choice, an intention. Big difference.

I don’t understand how the distinction your making is conceptually different. Can you please explain?


16 posted on 05/17/2009 4:34:03 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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From the 14th amendment to the US constitution.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

It sure seems they are creating a "non-equal" class of citizens with this legislation. Where are they protecting citizens to peaceably practice their religion?

17 posted on 05/17/2009 4:46:17 AM PDT by listenhillary (Rahm Emmanuel slip - A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.)
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To: listenhillary
And the proposed legislation would make it far easier for defendants acquitted in state court to be retried at the federal level - a circumvention of the Fifth Amendment's protection against double jeopardy that has prompted four members of the US Civil Rights Commission to publicly oppose the bill.

nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb

18 posted on 05/17/2009 4:51:20 AM PDT by listenhillary (Rahm Emmanuel slip - A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.)
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To: MartinaMisc

Will this be used on the type of thugs that beat up reginald denny after the rodney king arrest? Nooooo... They will use it on a little old lady that mutters something under her breath to a TSA “employee” at your local airport, who says “Whut u call me?”. Or the man who accidentally runs over a jaywalker and because it was on the southside...


19 posted on 05/17/2009 4:52:50 AM PDT by Rocketwolf68 (Bring back the crusades)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Do you know what I am thinking right now? Could you prove what I am thinking right now in any conceivable manner in a court of law?


20 posted on 05/17/2009 4:54:26 AM PDT by listenhillary (Rahm Emmanuel slip - A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.)
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To: MartinaMisc

....it will be interesting to see how this would be enforced with non violent crime....say a straight lawyer embezzles from a queer’s trust fund....or a car thief steals a queer’s vehicle....or a neighbor complains about a loud party at a queer’s home....are these hate crimes?


21 posted on 05/17/2009 5:05:48 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: MartinaMisc

If this passes, I recommend Barack and Michelle be the first two prosecuted under the law. Their words and actions show indisputable “hate” for America and the things that make her great....

hh


22 posted on 05/17/2009 5:12:10 AM PDT by hoosier hick ((I'm back to..) Note to RINOs: We need a choice, not an echo. (Barry Goldwater))
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To: DennisR

I harrassed Jerry Rubin by wearing a ROTC uniform and standing ten feet in front of him in college. Jerry Rubin glanced at me nervously several times during his talk.

I heard that Jerry Rubin referred to himself as “gay” in his later years. While I was at a demonstration against Bill Ayers speaking in Baltimore I saw what was obviously an old hippe. So I referred loudly to someone about the incident and said Rubin was shook up. Well, this old hippie took the bait and said he doubted that I could shake up Jerry Rubin. Bingo!

I then said that of course Rubin was shook up, he was just a queerbait. This got the guy furious and he started shouting that I was a homophobe. At that point he also went to the police. I was then shouting to match him that he was a heterophobe.

Under the new hate crimes law I would probably either be in jail for a hate crime.

When do you think the Irish revolution will begin?


23 posted on 05/17/2009 5:17:26 AM PDT by 2ndClassCitizen
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To: MartinaMisc

Hate crime laws are the tools of hatred by hateful hate-mongers.


24 posted on 05/17/2009 5:17:35 AM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - I Tim 2:5)
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To: listenhillary

> Do you know what I am thinking right now?

Beyond what you have written, no.

> Could you prove what I am thinking right now in any conceivable manner in a court of law?

No, but that is not the intention of “hate crime” law. They seek to establish a) “why” you are thinking what you are thinking, and “which” of your beliefs are driving your actions. In this case, that’s rather easy: you are seeking a) to “win” a debate b) based upon your belief that you are right and I am wrong.

Same deal with hate crime, with more emphasis on b) than on a).


25 posted on 05/17/2009 5:18:28 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: MartinaMisc

My take is pretty much like Harvey Keitel’s in the US version of “Life on Mars”:

“A hate crime? As opposed to a ‘I really, really like you’ crime?”


26 posted on 05/17/2009 5:27:48 AM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: cweese
"Are hate crimes any worse than others?"

Nope.

==========================

IMHO they are worse -- much worse.

For with a "hate crime":


27 posted on 05/17/2009 5:31:15 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: RoadTest

A crime is a crime. Bad intentions are equally as bad as good intentions.


28 posted on 05/17/2009 5:31:44 AM PDT by Broker (Reward: $100.00 for the lost book of Islamic Praise Songs.)
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To: MartinaMisc; AuntB
I hate lib's. So what? Are they going arrest me? Can't help it if the POS have absolutely no control of their actions (liberalism is a dangerous disease, 99% of democrats have it, and 100% of RINO's have it).


What's the opposite of a hate crime? Am waiting to hear them on the stand now - "Yes, I had to kill her because I lived her.....she didn't know what was good for her".
29 posted on 05/17/2009 5:35:49 AM PDT by Issaquahking (Keep your change obummer, I STILL support Sarah!)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

I see what you are saying.

Court proceeding notes...
Your internet browsing history shows that you post on FR. This is a well known site known to harbor homophobes, therefor the jury finds you guilty as charged on all counts.


30 posted on 05/17/2009 5:38:20 AM PDT by listenhillary (Rahm Emmanuel slip - A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.)
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To: MartinaMisc
No, it's just another way the Left circumvents the law, prosecuting people who have been aquitted of "normal" crimes by stacking a Fed jury with people eager to "get even" with Whitey.

OJ would have been spending the rest of his life in jail for murder if he had been white and the victims "special".

31 posted on 05/17/2009 5:38:31 AM PDT by Feckless (No Birth Certificate... No Peace)
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To: wita

There seems to be a great deal of confusion among the voting public, as to how to govern our country.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That is because most of those who aren’t at least very close to social security time have never been taught history, civics etc. If they were taught any a lot of what they were taught was wrong. Find someone under fifty who has ever heard of the Magna Charta or the Battle of Hastings and can tell you something about them.


32 posted on 05/17/2009 5:40:15 AM PDT by RipSawyer (Change has come to America and all hope is gone.)
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To: yankeedame

Ah, I believe we are looking at the question differently. My answer was based on my belief that crimes are crimes and should not be prosecuted with the added ‘hate crime’ charges thrown in. I agree with your “For with a “hate crime”:” definition. That is exactly right.


33 posted on 05/17/2009 5:44:36 AM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: MartinaMisc

Of course they’re worse than any other crime!

Mathew Sheppard is deader than he would have been if those anti-homosexual, racists who murdered him while screaming “I HATE FAGS!!!!” than he would have been if he had just been murdered by another homosexual, or in a drug deal gone bad...

Huh? It was a drug deal gone bad? Oh, never mind.

Mark


34 posted on 05/17/2009 5:49:18 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: cweese
Ah, two rivers lead to the same ocean. Once again we are perfect friends.
35 posted on 05/17/2009 6:41:24 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: yankeedame

:-)


36 posted on 05/17/2009 7:02:52 AM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: MartinaMisc

Odd that they’d name it for the victim of a drug deal gone bad.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=277685&page=1


37 posted on 05/17/2009 7:25:48 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: listenhillary

> I see what you are saying.

See also #11 for context

> Your internet browsing history shows that you post on FR. This is a well known site known to harbor homophobes, therefor the jury finds you guilty as charged on all counts.

Yup, and absent an effective defense (eg, posting history demonstrating that I am not homophobic) that is probably how it would go.

Hate crime is bad law IMO. At best, “hate” might be an aggravating factor useful for sentencing. It should not be a crime in and of itself.

For example, I hate Nazis. So I should: many good men fought and died 65 years ago hating Nazis too, and they were right to do so. Should that version of “hate” be a crime, too? Why not?

It should not be a crime to dislike or hate anybody, even if that dislike or hate is pig-ignorant, ill-informed, irrational, illogical, bigoted and wrong-headed. It should be and always has been and is a crime to act on that to the determent of someone else.

That is as it should be.


38 posted on 05/17/2009 7:37:52 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Roccus
Hate crimes gives a group of people special rights. They are better than the rest of us.Setting themselves above all others in turns of importance,value and greatness.
39 posted on 05/17/2009 7:45:46 AM PDT by odin2008 (Everything in the universe is subject to change.)
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To: All
Don't forget the tragic death of Jesse Dirkhising at the
hands of homosexuals. His death is more of a tragedy than
that of Matthew Sheppard.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29026

40 posted on 05/17/2009 9:23:19 AM PDT by sordo (I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.)
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To: MartinaMisc

There is no such thing as a hate crime. Any such legislation is complete Barbra Streisand.


41 posted on 05/17/2009 11:48:54 AM PDT by karnage
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To: DieHard the Hunter

That’s just it - I do not believe there is any way to correlate “intent” and “feeling.” Do you?


42 posted on 05/17/2009 2:56:39 PM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable, and unambiguous clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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