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The Pope's Stand in Obama's Notre Dame Controversy (Vatical Silent)
Time ^ | 16 May 09 | Amy Sullivan

Posted on 05/17/2009 12:03:41 PM PDT by SkyPilot

At the rate things are going, Pope Benedict XVI may find his next trip to the U.S. dogged by airplanes overhead trailing banners with images of aborted fetuses. O.K., that's a bit of hyperbole. But while several prominent conservative Catholics in this country are apoplectic over the University of Notre Dame's invitation of the pro-choice Barack Obama to give the school's commencement address on May 17, the Vatican has stayed completely silent on the matter.

The two very different reactions to the question of whether a Catholic institution should honor anyone who disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion are just the latest examples of the strikingly divergent responses American Catholic leaders and the Vatican have had to the Obama Administration.

Three-quarters of Catholics either approve of or offer no opinion on Notre Dame's decision to invite Obama, and the same percentage of U.S. bishops have opted to stay out of the fight.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhocommencements; catholic; catholiccolleges; notredame; obama; pope; prolife; vatican
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The Pope had lots to say about pressuring Israel to cave in to Palestinian terrorist, and give up more "land for peace" this week - but he refuses to comment on this.

More of the same.

Why won't the Vatican do things that make sense? Oppose politicians that support abortion, excommunicate the Pelosis, Kennedys, and Dodds, excommunicate homosexual clergy, and support Israel?

Incredible.

1 posted on 05/17/2009 12:03:41 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

The Vatican will pay dearly for it’s silence.


2 posted on 05/17/2009 12:07:40 PM PDT by Gator113 (Weak-coward-racist-white hating-lying-traitor= Surrender Monkey in Chief-B. Hussein Obama...)
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To: SkyPilot
This is a very important issue for many. I understand this. Rahm and Obama are very good at misdirection! Why are milking this distraction for all it is worth. What are they trying to sneak through congress now?
3 posted on 05/17/2009 12:08:16 PM PDT by WellyP
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At present, this is the top story on Drudge, along with this photo of a Notre Dame student who was arrested for daring to oppose King Obama.

Thanks Rome, for the support.

4 posted on 05/17/2009 12:09:22 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
...the question of whether a Catholic institution should honor anyone who disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion...

Not just honoring someone who disagrees with the Church, but silencing those who do agree with it. Perplexing indeed.

5 posted on 05/17/2009 12:10:12 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: SkyPilot

I think I know why the Vatican is silent. It is a secular nation-state, and wants to maintain good relations with the United States, of which Barack Hussein Obama is the President (legitimately or otherwise).

It’s a diplomatic thing.


6 posted on 05/17/2009 12:10:16 PM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - I Tim 2:5)
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To: Gator113

I believe the entire Church will pay dearly not only for the Vatican’s silence but for the bishops’ spinelessness. This is their AIG/GM moment. Obama has taken over their “company” in the US. I hope they enjoy what he’s going to make of it.

As for the rest of us, just average Catholics, this is the beginning of our time of trial.


7 posted on 05/17/2009 12:12:48 PM PDT by livius
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To: SkyPilot

Gotta just eat up that TIME propaganda and accept it as truth hey.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2247015/posts


8 posted on 05/17/2009 12:14:09 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: Gator113
I applaud the sincere Catholics who have taken a courageous stand to oppose abortion, and Obama.

It is shameful the Pope has not supported them publicly, made a statement, or even attempted to have a representative from the Vatican voice support.

If the Vatican would denounce the Democrats and Liberals for what they are - evil; then those faithless and godless people who still wish to call themselves Christians or Catholics (and yet vote for Democrats by the millions) would not be able to wear their fig leafs anymore.


9 posted on 05/17/2009 12:14:47 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

Catholics have two choices; they can put ZERO in the offering from now on to protest the church’s silence. Or, they can continue to support a church who remains silent in the face of such atrocities.


10 posted on 05/17/2009 12:15:03 PM PDT by South40 (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its Idiot.)
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To: SkyPilot
Why won't the Vatican do things that make sense? Oppose politicians that support abortion, excommunicate the Pelosis, Kennedys, and Dodds, excommunicate homosexual clergy, and support Israel?

Just about exactly opposite of what Jesus would do...Go figure...

11 posted on 05/17/2009 12:17:14 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: SkyPilot

Touchdown Barack wins in sudden death and spikes the baby in the endzone.


12 posted on 05/17/2009 12:18:17 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: big'ol_freeper
I am glad someone said something. Kudos to the Bishop, but that was over a week ago.

Where is the Vatican on this as Obama gets an honorary degree? Why didn't they tell Notre Dame to disinvite Obama? Where is their statement as Catholic students are arrested for opposing Obama?

I hate Time magazine too, but they are correct on this story. There is not Vatican opposition to what happened at Notre Dame this weekend.

13 posted on 05/17/2009 12:19:37 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
On May 8th, 2009, Archbishop Raymond Burke, Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, commented on the University of Notre Dame's decision to honor President Obama at its upcoming commencement. Despite President Obama's support for abortion and other anti-life positions, he will be presented with an honorary Doctor of Law degree at the University on May 17th.

At the 2009 Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C., the Archbishop stated: “The profound granting of an honorary doctorate” by Notre Dame to President Obama is “a source of the gravest scandal." "Catholic institutions cannot offer any platform to, let alone honor, those who teach and act publicly against the moral law. He continued: “If we as individuals are not willing to accept the burdens and the suffering” of the Catholic witness to the right to life, “we are not worthy of the name Catholic.”

In the Vatican, he is roughly equivalent to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court .

14 posted on 05/17/2009 12:19:58 PM PDT by stop_fascism (Georgism is Capitalism perfected)
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To: SkyPilot

Archbishop Burke Slams Obama’s Appearance at Notre Dame
FOX News ^ | May 8, 2009 | FOXNews

Posted on Fri May 8 12:39:12 2009 by TaxachusettsMan

One of the Vatican’s highest ranked clerics and a frequent critic of President Obama said Friday that Notre Dame is causing a “scandal” by giving the president an honorary degree and a platform to address graduates at its commencement next weekend.

‘The proposed granting of an honorary doctorate at Notre Dame University to our president, who is so aggressively advancing an anti-life and anti-family agenda, is rightly the source of the greatest scandal,” said Archbishop Raymond Burke, who is the prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the Vatican’s highest court.

Burke, the former archbishop of St. Louis and vocal opponent of giving communion to politicians who support abortion rights, told Catholics at a national prayer breakfast in Washington, D.C., that “with unparalleled arrogance, our nation is choosing to renounce its foundation on the faithful.”

He pointed to several Obama administration decisions that he said have damaged “the fundamental society that is the family,” citing the repeal of the conscience clause, which prohibits health care workers from refusing to participate in abortion-related services; repeal of the Mexico City policy, which allows federal funding to be used abroad to provide abortions; presidential support of the Freedom of Choice Act, which prevents government from in any way denying or interfering with a woman’s right to choose; and support of the U.S. Population Fund, which he noted supports China’s one-child policy.


15 posted on 05/17/2009 12:20:17 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: SkyPilot
Three-quarters of Catholics either approve of or offer no opinion on Notre Dame's decision to invite Obama, and the same percentage of U.S. bishops have opted to stay out of the fight.

The Catholic Church has systematically conflated tax-funded social welfare with "charity," arising out of a tragically-confused understanding of the Tenth Commandment. It is the nexus of "liberation theology."

16 posted on 05/17/2009 12:21:17 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: SkyPilot
There is not Vatican opposition to what happened at Notre Dame this weekend.

And indeed you are wrong.

17 posted on 05/17/2009 12:21:19 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: big'ol_freeper
UPI story.

There are plenty more.

WASHINGTON, May 16 (UPI) -- Catholics who have protested Notre Dame University's commencement invitation to President Barack Obama have received no encouragement from the Vatican.

18 posted on 05/17/2009 12:22:02 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: RoadTest
It’s a diplomatic thing.

It is obvious that the church and the Pope have lost their way if this is the case.

Right, wrong, and serving The Lord and God are the bottom line. All else is less important.

19 posted on 05/17/2009 12:23:12 PM PDT by SteamShovel (When hope trumps reality, there is no hope at all.)
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To: SkyPilot

I think that picture is of a student that was with a group that supported Obama at Notre Dame and he wasn’t being arrested just had his hands behind his back. There was a small group of Obama supporting students that came out when Keyes was arrested.

Also, Archbishop Burke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura at the Vatican has made statements about this.


20 posted on 05/17/2009 12:25:32 PM PDT by Chesterbelloc
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To: SkyPilot; big'ol_freeper
Where is the Vatican on this as Obama gets an honorary degree? Why didn't they tell Notre Dame to disinvite Obama? Where is their statement as Catholic students are arrested for opposing Obama?

I hate Time magazine too, but they are correct on this story. There is not Vatican opposition to what happened at Notre Dame this weekend.

Archbishop Burke IS speaking for the Vatican, EVERYTHING he says in his position as Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura is an official statement from the Vatican and is done with the Holy Father's approval.

21 posted on 05/17/2009 12:26:25 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: SkyPilot; livius

IF it is even possible, it will take Catholics such as yourselves to turn the effect of this around.

You are on a sand strewn place of combat, within the arenas again, remember the lions and those that held onto their beliefs.


22 posted on 05/17/2009 12:29:36 PM PDT by Gator113 (Weak-coward-racist-white hating-lying-traitor= Surrender Monkey in Chief-B. Hussein Obama...)
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To: SkyPilot
I applaud the sincere Catholics who have taken a courageous stand to oppose abortion, and Obama.

It is shameful the Pope has not supported them publicly, made a statement, or even attempted to have a representative from the Vatican voice support.

If the Vatican would denounce the Democrats and Liberals for what they are - evil; then those faithless and godless people who still wish to call themselves Christians or Catholics (and yet vote for Democrats by the millions) would not be able to wear their fig leafs anymore.

Being a Democrat is part of the American Catholic identity (like it is for Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, and used to be for white Southerners). So in order to be "good Catholics" too many still vote Democrat even when the party advocates diametrically opposed policies.

This "Solid South" strategy is how the Democrats have survived since the Civil War. They've merely changed their solid ethnic base.

23 posted on 05/17/2009 12:29:36 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: Carry_Okie
The Catholic Church has systematically conflated tax-funded social welfare with "charity," arising out of a tragically-confused understanding of the Tenth Commandment. It is the nexus of "liberation theology."

I agree. Many priests get away with preaching "Social Justice" in homilies, and never, ever deal with Biblical truths concerning covetousness, homosexuality, or God's own words about infants in the womb (Psalm 139).

Then, we have this:

Pope to Israel: Give your land to the Arabs

I heard on the news that 67% of US Catholics are Obama supporters.

If true, there is little hope for those people.

24 posted on 05/17/2009 12:29:52 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot; big'ol_freeper

You act surprised that TIME, UPI and the rest of the media is spinning this to fulfill their agenda.

Do they acknowledge ANYWHERE in their stories how many bishops have condemned Notre Dame? Do they acknowledge what Archbishop Burke said. And as far as Archbishop Burke’s statement being over a week ago, that DOES NOT MATTER, the Holy See has spoken there is no need to repeat their objections.


25 posted on 05/17/2009 12:30:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: South40; SkyPilot; Ethan Clive Osgoode
Catholics have two choices; they can put ZERO in the offering from now on to protest the church’s silence. Or, they can continue to support a church who remains silent in the face of such atrocities.

I'm going to get creamed for this, but I'll say it again because I absolutely believe it:

The acceptance of evolution is the root of all the modern liberalism and confusion in the Catholic Church.

26 posted on 05/17/2009 12:31:57 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: SkyPilot
Support of Israel is not, unfortunately, a traditional conservative Catholic theological position. Fundamentalist Protestantism is very different from traditional, historical chr*stianity on this issue (and good for them!).
27 posted on 05/17/2009 12:36:24 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: Gator113

The pope has now made it perfectly clear that his standing with world leaders is far more umportant (and more immediate) than his standing with God.


28 posted on 05/17/2009 12:38:58 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: SkyPilot; Gator113
If the Vatican would denounce the Democrats and Liberals for what they are - evil; then those faithless and godless people who still wish to call themselves Christians or Catholics (and yet vote for Democrats by the millions) would not be able to wear their fig leafs anymore.

It HAS been said, but like everything else the leftist media IGNORES it:

Archbishop Burke: Catholics could not have voted for Obama with ‘clear conscience’

Catholic Cardinal Meets With Obama: Says President Claims He's Not Pro-Abortion


29 posted on 05/17/2009 12:39:12 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
It HAS been said, but like everything else the leftist media IGNORES it:

As do the Catholic-hating bigots.

30 posted on 05/17/2009 12:40:25 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: SkyPilot

There were Jewish people who asked where the Pope was during the holocaust.

There are Christians now asking where the Pope is during the takeover of Notre Dame.

Well, the Pope was just in Israel telling those folks to split Israel.....so why is anybody waiting for the Pope to come to the rescue of a Catholic college. It’s already been split. Job Done!


31 posted on 05/17/2009 12:41:27 PM PDT by blueyon (It is worth taking a stand even if you are standing alone!)
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To: big'ol_freeper
There is not Vatican opposition to what happened at Notre Dame this weekend.

And indeed you are wrong.

Link Please.

32 posted on 05/17/2009 12:41:42 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Being a Democrat is part of the American Catholic identity (like it is for Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, and used to be for white Southerners). So in order to be "good Catholics" too many still vote Democrat even when the party advocates diametrically opposed policies.

Members of my own family (father, aunt, cousins, etc) are this way. Irish heritage, ex-blue collar, and think the Kennedy family is just terrific.

If you sit down with them and talk politics, they will tell you how they were would "never" support homosexual "marriage", speech codes, and groups like Code Pink. They claim they are against affirmative action. When you point out that these are all now mainstream Democrat positions, they get angry and start to throw out MSM talking points against anything Conservative or Republican.

Many Jews I know won't vote for Republicans because of their antipathy for evangelical Christianity (and they associate all Republicans with evangelicals).

I think Satan is having a field day.

33 posted on 05/17/2009 12:41:45 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: big'ol_freeper

They repeat the same lies so many times that they start to believe them.


34 posted on 05/17/2009 12:42:24 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Being a Democrat is part of the American Catholic identity...

Wielding that broad brush must give you tremendously strong wrists.

35 posted on 05/17/2009 12:42:40 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: SkyPilot
I'm disappointed in the pope not speaking out. Achbp Burke isn't high enough.

Catholics who really care are in the minority now. Jesus did speak about a "little flock".

So take heart, try to do the best with where you are, and know that more persecution lies ahead.

36 posted on 05/17/2009 12:43:21 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: MrEdd

Man some folks are F-ing thick.

#8 and #15


37 posted on 05/17/2009 12:44:05 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: wagglebee
I confess I didn't know about Burke's statement last week, but I am glad he made it.

The Vatican, however, is still mum today, and was mum this weekend vis a vis Obama.

If there is a press release from them regarding anything on this that is not over a week old, please publish the link.

Thanks.

38 posted on 05/17/2009 12:45:04 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Petronski; SkyPilot
Being a Democrat is part of the American Catholic identity...

Wielding that broad brush must give you tremendously strong wrists.

Hey, I don't like it, but it is historically true.

39 posted on 05/17/2009 12:46:08 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: Petronski; Zionist Conspirator

Aside from African Americans, the most solid voting bloc the Democrats have is the Jewish vote and this has been the case for nearly a century.


40 posted on 05/17/2009 12:46:27 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: SkyPilot

The Vatican is more concerned about political correctness than upholding a precept.


41 posted on 05/17/2009 12:47:45 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: MrEdd

See post 14.


42 posted on 05/17/2009 12:49:58 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: wagglebee
Aside from African Americans, the most solid voting bloc the Democrats have is the Jewish vote and this has been the case for nearly a century.

As I am well aware and as I said in my initial post.

Considering that most American Jews are thoroughly alienated from their Heritage (which they identify with opposition to anything "chr*stian," no matter how Jewish it actually is) could it be any different?

One wag once wrote that many of the Jewish immigrants who fled to the US to escape "tyranny" weren't running from the Czar, but from their rabbis and parents.

43 posted on 05/17/2009 12:51:08 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: netmilsmom

I provided links in #29.


44 posted on 05/17/2009 12:52:34 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Hey, I don't like it, but it is historically true.

Baloney.

45 posted on 05/17/2009 12:53:53 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
Baloney.

Not in this case. I wish it were.

You know, there are more productive ways to spend your time than arguing with me, especially over something that is an American political truism.

46 posted on 05/17/2009 12:56:36 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

So you claim.


47 posted on 05/17/2009 12:58:15 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
So you claim.

Please forgive me. I give up. There is no more productive way to spend your time other than arguing with me over an American political truism.

48 posted on 05/17/2009 1:01:34 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

It’s not an American political truism. You claim so, that’s all.


49 posted on 05/17/2009 1:02:48 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
It’s not an American political truism. You claim so, that’s all.

Yeah, and white Southerners weren't solid Democrats from 1856 to 1964!

Have a wonderful rest of the day.

50 posted on 05/17/2009 1:06:01 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Haqrev 'et-matteh Levi veha`amadta 'oto lifney 'Aharon HaKohen; vesheretu 'oto.)
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