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From the Desk of Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy[“no fly list”-Can't be eligible to buy guns]
Floral Park Dispatch ^ | 14 May 2009 | Carolyn McCarthy

Posted on 05/18/2009 8:52:05 AM PDT by BGHater

McCarthy and Steve Israel Announce ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act

On May 13 Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy and Congressman Steve Israel (NY-02) hosted a press conference to announce the introduction of the No Fly, No Buy Act, which seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns.

At the event, McCarthy and Israel were flanked by law enforcement officials and joined by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence to highlight the importance of keeping guns out of the hands of people that are known or suspected terrorists and their continued commitment to fighting to strengthen gun violence prevention laws that protect police and our communities.

Under current law, terrorist watch list checks are not part of the Brady background check process, because being a suspected or known terrorist was and is not a disqualifying factor for firearm transfer/possession eligibility. The No Fly No Buy Act seeks to correct this serious loophole in the nation’s gun laws.

“For far too long, the ‘terror gap’ has left a wide open loophole in our nation’s gun safety laws that could allow terrorists to acquire guns the same way any law abiding citizen can. The No Fly, No Buy Act uses existing TSA data to update the NICS system with the names of known or suspected terrorists to disqualify them from passing the Brady Background Check. This is a common sense gun bill that will prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands,” McCarthy said.

Congressman Israel added, “Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every member of Congress. It’s common sense legislation. I’m proud to be introducing this bill with Congresswoman McCarthy. She’s on a mission to end gun violence in this country, and for as long as I’ve been in Congress I’ve been proud to support her in those efforts.”

Newly released FBI data documents 230 occasions in 2006 where persons on the violent gang and terrorist watch list were able to purchase guns. Furthermore, in January 2005, the GAO reported that in a five-month period—Feb. 3, 2004 through June 30, 2004—NICS checks resulted in an estimated 650 terrorist-related record hits in their databases. Of these, 44 were found to be valid. However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.

Since September 11, 2001, Congress has passed many laws to improve homeland security. Yet, this loophole remains open. If someone is denied the chance to board an airplane because of suspected ties to terrorists, then they should also be denied the opportunity to purchase a gun.

Individuals with ties to terrorists have bought guns in the past and used them to kill Americans.

In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant.

On Dec. 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.

On Feb. 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.

On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a “street sweeper” shotgun.

On Nov. 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

The No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009 seeks to close the terror gap. The bill amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit: (1) the sale or other disposition of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an individual required to be prevented from boarding an aircraft; and (2) the shipment, transport, possession, or receipt of a firearm or ammunition by such individuals.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; bradybill; carolynmccarthy; democrats; guns; nofly; shallnotbeinfringed
"To increase public safety and reduce the threat to domestic security by including persons who may be prevented from boarding an aircraft in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and for other purposes."

H.R. 2401: No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009[GovTrack]

HR 2401[OpenCongress.org]

1 posted on 05/18/2009 8:52:06 AM PDT by BGHater
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To: BGHater

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vp7f1QKYmg


2 posted on 05/18/2009 8:55:50 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: BGHater

I wonder if these idiots, drunk with power and determined to gut our Constitution have decided what they will do when more than 50% of US Citizen adults are on that “no-fly no-buy” list?


3 posted on 05/18/2009 8:56:58 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: BGHater

Great denied firearms because you have a name that is similar to some whacko somewhere and can’t get yourself off the no-fly list.


4 posted on 05/18/2009 8:57:39 AM PDT by Domandred (Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.)
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To: BGHater
I think that McCarthy needs to be careful what she asks for.

Linking the No-Fly list to exercise of a Constitutionally-protected right will make the No-Fly list subject to judicial review.

Right now, the list is "secret". There's no published criteria for inclusion. There's no procedure for being removed. Linking it to gun ownership will require that it be opened up for all to see, and will make it subject to challenge.

5 posted on 05/18/2009 8:58:14 AM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.)
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To: Publius6961

The WOT and being kept safe will always be used for Gov’t power.


6 posted on 05/18/2009 8:59:27 AM PDT by BGHater (It's easy to be a Conservative now.)
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To: BGHater

I knew before I read it that the accompanying screed would invoke the catchphrases “loophole” and “common sense legislation.” There is a little problem with this legislation, however, at least in regard to American citizens - that inconvenient due process thingy. You’re supposed to get a trial before you’re punished. Silly of us, I know, but that’s the way it is.


7 posted on 05/18/2009 9:01:13 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: justlurking
Linking it to gun ownership will require that it be opened up

There is scant reason to assume precedent, logic, reason or decency mean anything to the legal class.

8 posted on 05/18/2009 9:02:15 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: BGHater

This is an end-run at trying to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.


9 posted on 05/18/2009 9:03:46 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist ("President Obama, your agenda is not new, it's not change, and it's not hope" - Rush Limbaugh 02/28)
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To: BGHater

Interesting that each of the given examples already constituted a crime under existing gun laws.


10 posted on 05/18/2009 9:06:55 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: BGHater

I’ve got to believe that the courts will slap this down. We’re talking about the denial of a fundamental right, without due process. You aren’t even informed that you’re on the No Fly list, let alone given an opportunity to have a regular court proceeding (even on appeal from an administrative hearing) to have that changed. I have a BIG problem with the lack of Due Process regarding the No Fly list to begin with (because travel is a fundamental right), LET ALONE affecting another, unrelated, fundamental right.

Besides, the No Fly list is intended to keep dangerous people off of planes. We’re not so worried, on a federal level, with some nut shooting 1 or a few, or even a few dozen people - as bad as that is. Though that could be an act of terror, it is on a way different level from bringing down a plane, or using a plane as a giant cruise missile. If someone has been adjudicated as having done something that disqualifies them from owning a firearm, that’s a separate matter. But if they haven’t been, why is a mere suspicion of being a bad actor enough to deny a fundamental right????


11 posted on 05/18/2009 9:08:18 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: BGHater
No due process involved; what a great time saver.

Another catch 22. You have to be sane to buy a gun - only an insane person would want to buy a gun.

12 posted on 05/18/2009 9:08:18 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: mbynack

“You have to be sane to buy a gun - only an insane person would want to buy a gun.”

You have a keen insight of the Soviet intellect, Comrade.


13 posted on 05/18/2009 9:19:36 AM PDT by TexasRepublic
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To: BGHater
Congressman Israel added, “Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every member of Congress.

Unfortunately, "no brainer" describes quite a few congresspeople these days.

I think we should substitute other rights in for gun rights, and see how it works.

Nobody who is on the no-fly list should be able to get a driver's license. They could kill someone with their car.

Nobody who is on the no-fly list should be able to vote. They might put an anti-american socialist into the Presidency.

Nobody who is on the no-fly list should be able to own a phone. They might plot with other terrorists.

We should be allowed to invade the homes of people on the no-fly list, because they shouldn't have the 4th amendment protection against search and seizure.

We should be allowed to question people on the no-fly list without lawyers, and using harsh interrogation techniques, because they shouldn't have 5th amendment protections.

This is fun.

14 posted on 05/18/2009 9:22:58 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: BGHater
NICS checks resulted in an estimated 650 terrorist-related record hits in their databases. Of these, 44 were found to be valid. However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.

So 606 out of 650 incidents, people should not have been on the terrorist watch list but now these congress critters want to close a loophole that would have stopped 44 "known or suspected terrorists" from purchasing a gun while wrongly denying 606 law-abiding citizens their constitutional rights?

15 posted on 05/18/2009 9:23:39 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: BGHater

OK...so that law should also forbid any member of Congress,past or present,from owning a firearm or being protected by anyone who carries a firearm.


16 posted on 05/18/2009 9:26:36 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: BGHater

So we are going to ‘fix a problem’ so that terrorists and sympathizers cannot buy guns legally and use as examples situations where terrorists and sympathizers have purchased guns illegally.

I’m just checking the logic here...


17 posted on 05/18/2009 9:28:27 AM PDT by BlueNgold (... Feed the tree!)
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To: mbynack
Another catch 22. You have to be sane to buy a gun - only an insane person would want to buy a gun.

Trouble with that point of view from McCarthy and her ilk is that 85 million of us already have some 1/4 of a billion guns. Something comes to mind about horses and barn doors.

18 posted on 05/18/2009 9:29:08 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: BGHater
Congressman Israel added, “Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every member of Congress. It’s common sense legislation.

Let's see ... "No brainer" Yup, that applies to every member of Congress PLUS all of the Executive Branch, plus all the agencies.

But.... "common sense?" That term has no application anywhere in Washington DC. So I guess the two cancel each other out.

19 posted on 05/18/2009 9:32:52 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: BGHater

From what I remember; the hijackers on Sept 11th used box cutters...boxcutters = guns to these wing nuts??? Just one more way for them to take away our rights.


20 posted on 05/18/2009 9:33:26 AM PDT by SAMS ("I may look harmless, but I raised a U.S. MARINE!" Army Wife & Marine Mom)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Those examples, among others, are the reason why such legislation will be batted down as unconstitutional (or damned well ought to be).

I’m curious as to whether, if this legislation becomes law and passes muster in the courts, people who are irritated about this will start reporting well-known anti-gun people to the police, FBI, etc. for suspicious behavior. That would be terrible, getting someone put on the No Fly list, just because they were interested in denying us rights - terrible indeed.


21 posted on 05/18/2009 9:34:19 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: BGHater
If memory serves, wasn't Teddy Kennedy on the "no fly" list for awhile?

Regards,
GtG

22 posted on 05/18/2009 9:34:40 AM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Domandred

I have an uncle that gets special attention every time he flies because he has a similar name to some guy on the list.

And no, his is an ENTIRELY American name, not “Achmed Jones”.


23 posted on 05/18/2009 9:35:19 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: SAMS

And also, I dare her to come up with ONE instance of an actual terrorist that would have been stopped by this idea.


24 posted on 05/18/2009 9:36:34 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: SAMS
From what I remember; the hijackers on Sept 11th used box cutters...boxcutters = guns to these wing nuts??? Just one more way for them to take away our rights.

That's not the first time. During the '90s in NYC, there was an incident were a family from Utah was visiting to see a tennis tournament, and they got mugged (including one or 2 getting knifed) in the subway. Mayor David Dinkins called for strict gun control as one response to this knifing, the putz.

This type of thing proves that Michael Savage is right: Liberalism IS a mental disorder.

25 posted on 05/18/2009 9:36:44 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: Billthedrill

When you see the word “loophole”, automatically substitute the words “legislation written by morons who weren’t able to understand how the legislation was actually going to work in the real world”, which is pretty much everyone in every legislative body across America, including and especially Carolyn McCarthy.


26 posted on 05/18/2009 9:45:05 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (I long for the days when advertisers didn't constantly ask about the health of my genital organs.)
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To: Ancesthntr
the courts will slap this down

Question is: WHEN will it get to the courts?

IIRC, the "no-fly list" is classified, meaning you can't check to see if your name is on the list. You don't find out about it until you're either denied a boarding pass or (under this atrocity of a bill) a NICS check. Only then do you have "standing" - legal, demonstrable proof that you have been affected by this law. Only then can you, assuming you have the money & inclination to actually pursue this, go forward with a case. The rest of us get to sit back, hoping SOMEONE upstanding and sane with a good lawyer will actually pursue the issue. Then we all get to wait for YEARS as this thing winds thru the courts, with every court under SCOTUS operating on the assumption (as _Heller_ doesn't apply to this) that what Congress hath wrought is Constitutional until SCOTUS decrees otherwise.

This thing passes, we're scrod.

27 posted on 05/18/2009 10:13:04 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: justlurking
Linking the No-Fly list to exercise of a Constitutionally-protected right will make the No-Fly list subject to judicial review.

Excellent point.

28 posted on 05/18/2009 10:13:20 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Defending RINOs is the same as defending Liberals.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

And he got off the list ONLY because he is extremely well-connected.

You end up on that list, you won’t know until you’re buying a product (gun) or service (flight) - at which point YOU get to spend the >$X0,000 needed to sue your way off the list.


29 posted on 05/18/2009 10:15:55 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: BGHater

With as many people as you hear getting on their through no fault of their own or because they share the same name I think this is a really really bad idea.


30 posted on 05/18/2009 10:21:20 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: BGHater

On May 13 Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy and Congressman Steve Israel (NY-02) hosted a press conference to announce the introduction of the No Fly, No Buy Act, which seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns.

Mrs. McCarthy is a pathetic excuse for a Congress person. Some nut went on the LIRR killed several people including her husband. The nut had a rifle. This case points up the fact that if some armed upstanding citizen had been on the train, people’s lives would have been saved. She’s been against guns ever since, never once condemning those who commit crimes with guns. Her husband is probably turning over in his grave.


31 posted on 05/18/2009 10:48:19 AM PDT by kenmcg (cOMMBYAH)
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To: BGHater
In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On Dec. 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.

Obviously no background checked involved with this incident.

On Feb. 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.

Broke the law to buy the pistol. Probably no background check done this time either

On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a “street sweeper” shotgun.

Machine guns are highly regulated, wanna bet this one did not go through any Class III dealer, or any other sort? If so, no background check was performed

On Nov. 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Defaced serial number...why that's illegal, and is indicative that gun laws were broken, and likely that no background check was made this time either.

So, once again, the "feel good" folks try to pass a law that would not have had any effect in the cases they cite as argument for their laws. One again, laws only affect the law abiding, which doesn't include any real terrorists.

How about if someone is on the "watch list", they go to trial, an if convicted, are expelled from the country, perhaps minus an appendage or three.

32 posted on 05/18/2009 11:46:42 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: mbynack
You have to be sane to buy a gun - only an insane person would want to buy a gun.

I guess we have a real bunch of nuts around the country then. Based merely on the Excess of firearms sales over the same period a year earlier. Enough nuts to fill up the Indian and Russian armies. Count all who purchased weapons, or at least ordered them, since October of last year, and there are enough nuts to fill up the Chinese, Russian, Indian, US and several other armies.

33 posted on 05/18/2009 1:08:17 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Publius6961
I wonder if these idiots, drunk with power and determined to gut our Constitution have decided what they will do when more than 50% of US Citizen adults are on that “no-fly no-buy” list?

Run?

34 posted on 05/18/2009 1:10:54 PM PDT by Stentor (The Criminal Obama Administration.)
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To: kenmcg
Some nut went on the LIRR killed several people including her husband. The nut had a rifle.

He had a Ruger P-89 9mm handgun.

The shooter is still sucking air, and eating at the expense of New York taxpayers. Notice he did not go on his little rampage in Texas. If he had, he'd be pushing up Indian Paintbrushs.

He very well could have chosen Texas. since he bought the gun in California, in spite of background checks and a 15 day waiting period. Probably more redneck racists in Texas for him to shoot anyway. Commuter railroads are less common though, and were even more so in '93. I guess he could have tried his luck at some cowboy or roughneck bar. :)

Texans would very likely have overpowered him on his first magazine change, not the third, if not before.

35 posted on 05/18/2009 1:37:37 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Stentor
I like the way you think...

: )

36 posted on 05/18/2009 3:13:19 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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