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Campus evangelists clash with police
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | May 23, 2009

Posted on 05/24/2009 3:56:01 AM PDT by Man50D

A campus evangelism group is stunned today, as a ministry event at a community college in Ohio resulted in four members being arrested, one on a felony assault charge that the ministry's leader claims is fabricated.

"I've done ministries like this at more than 200 universities," said Jason Storms, director of Faithful Soldier School of Evangelism, a ministry of Mercy Seat Christian Church in Milwaukee, Wis. "We train people to do evangelism, and I have never seen an incident like this."

Storms and a team of students earlier this week traveled to Sinclair Community College in Dayton, Ohio, with signs, literature and a message of faith.

When they arrived, however, a student complaint led campus police to confront the evangelism team and demand that their signs and literature be put away in accordance with college policy. When two of the evangelists refused the order, however, insisting their materials were protected by the freedom of speech guaranteed in the First Amendment, the officers arrested them on charges of disorderly conduct.

"There are many times when police hassle us and intimidate or bully us on campus, and usually we stand them down and are successful in defending our rights to freedom of speech," Storms told WND. "I can count on one hand the number of times we've had an arrest situation."

Later in the afternoon, however, two more arrests followed, one on a now-disputed felony charge of striking a police officer.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: christianstudents; dayton; donutwatch; evangelism; leftismoncampus; leo
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1 posted on 05/24/2009 3:56:01 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D

It’s starting, for real.


2 posted on 05/24/2009 4:04:58 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Man50D
I've never heard of this group before, but for the life of me why would a group of people from Milwaukee travel to Dayton, Ohio to show up on some rinky dink community college? Something just doesn't add up. Between Dayton and Milwaukee there must be 100 schools.
The wacko light is going off in my head on this one.
3 posted on 05/24/2009 4:05:57 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - MARSOC DAD)
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To: Man50D

With all due respect to Mr Storms the College had allowed them on their property and had spoken to them about signs etc prior to them coming on campus. Surely they should have shown those in charge of the University some respect in regards to their wishes. They were allowed to speak and interact with students as is their right.

Your University Security seem to have a lot more powers than ours here in Australia - I only have the power under these circumstances to ask and then if people do not comply I have to call the real Police as I can only make an arrest for infractions of State felony law and not for having my instructions disobeyed - yours seem to have too much power for a rent a cop.

Mel


4 posted on 05/24/2009 4:15:44 AM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: Recon Dad

From your post: “why would a group of people from Milwaukee travel to Dayton, Ohio to show up on some rinky dink community college? Something just doesn’t add up. Between Dayton and Milwaukee there must be 100 schools.”

It doesn’t add up because you didn’t read the article very well. From the article:

“I’ve done ministries like this at more than 200 universities,”

They’ve probably already been to your 100 ministries between there and Dayton and had every right to go to that “rinky dink” school as well. Discrimination based on the content of one’s speech has been deemed unconstitutional by the SCOTUS time and time again, yet moronic University police and the snobs who run these schools are too stupid to listen. If it were conservatives spreading their message with signs like the one’s seen at tea parties, would you be so quick to think they’re wacko’s for even being there. I bet you’d be irked that their free speech rights were violated simply based on their opinions and world view. It’s getting flat scary in this country.


5 posted on 05/24/2009 4:26:23 AM PDT by Cherokee Conservative (When Obama screws up healthcare, where will the Canadians go for their surgeries?)
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To: Recon Dad

The light you refer to is definitely on.

And it’s shining on you.


6 posted on 05/24/2009 4:39:23 AM PDT by Cedric
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To: Cherokee Conservative
"moronic University police and the snobs who run these schools"

Evidently the event was precipitated by students who actually attend the school complaining to security about the Christian Soldier's methods.

7 posted on 05/24/2009 4:45:09 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

And...?


8 posted on 05/24/2009 4:54:25 AM PDT by Cedric
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To: AnalogReigns

You wrote:

“It’s starting, for real.”

This sort of thing has happened in the past too. What is most troubling to me is that a student “complained” about the signs and literature. The anti-Christian crowd is bigger and bolder than they once were.


9 posted on 05/24/2009 4:55:00 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: melsec

It’s a public college.

“Operated by the Montgomery County Community College District, Sinclair was established by the voters of the county. Revenues are derived from tax levies approved by the voters of Montgomery County, the State of Ohio, and fees paid by students. Capital funds are received from state grants and appropriations. The Sinclair Foundation raises funds from individuals, organizations and corporations to support scholarships and special educational projects.”


10 posted on 05/24/2009 4:55:16 AM PDT by Gil4
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To: Cedric

Duh.


11 posted on 05/24/2009 4:55:24 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
From the article: The situation escalated, however, when Officer Beane demanded that a member of the evangelism team surrender a cell phone that had been taping the incident.
12 posted on 05/24/2009 4:55:58 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Man50D
If this group had been proselytizing for the Nation of Islam or the Church of Satan (as if there were any difference, lol) there would have been no complaints or issues whatsoever.
13 posted on 05/24/2009 4:57:47 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: Man50D
This is simply outrageous.

Demonstration at Sinclair ends in 4 arrests

Charles Gift, director of public safety for Sinclair Community College, said campus police received a call about noon from a student who said demonstrators were disturbing her.

From A post at the Dayton Daily News site: Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940) Speech may not be prohibited merely because it offends some listeners.

Forsyth County vs. The Nationalist Movement, 112 S. Ct. 2395 (1992) A city may not consider the listeners reactions to a speaker when permitting free speech activities.

Cox v. Lousiana, 379 U.S. 536 (1965) Hecklers may not be allowed to veto a speakers free speech. Police must control a crowd rather than arrest the speaker in order to maintain order.

14 posted on 05/24/2009 5:05:37 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Man50D
The only true test if this was over reaction to a religious group by campus police is to pretend what would happen if it was a Muslim evangelist outreach group on campus.

I have no doubt of the outcome.

15 posted on 05/24/2009 5:06:14 AM PDT by Popman
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To: Ben Ficklin

Thought so.


16 posted on 05/24/2009 5:17:50 AM PDT by Cedric
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To: DJ MacWoW

Hmmmm...I’m sorry but that sends out a big red flag to me.


17 posted on 05/24/2009 5:50:05 AM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Cherokee Conservative

Well said.


18 posted on 05/24/2009 6:58:28 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: DJ MacWoW; Cedric

You and jason need to read that book on how to win friends and influence people.


19 posted on 05/24/2009 7:17:25 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Man50D
insisting their materials were protected by the freedom of speech guaranteed in the First Amendment

How quaint.

20 posted on 05/24/2009 7:24:09 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Ben Ficklin
You and jason need to read that book on how to win friends and influence people.

This is about winning a war, and wars are won using many different strategies and tactics, and many different types of warriors. These warriors chose this particular tactic to fight the battle as they saw fit.

As it turns out, they are on the cusp of a big win, much bigger than if they hadn't encountered the police.

21 posted on 05/24/2009 7:25:06 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Willful ignorance is a dangerous attitude.)
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To: Balding_Eagle
"on the cusp of a big win"?

The data shows that the Christian Fundamentalists are doing very poorly with this demographic group.

22 posted on 05/24/2009 7:33:50 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Man50D

I hope the evangelicals win big in court. That said, most “street preacher” campus evangelicals I’ve seen are downright screwballs who don’t succeed in provoking much thought on the part of their intended audiences. Still, they are harmless and have as much right to speak as anyone else.


23 posted on 05/24/2009 7:37:46 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Ben Ficklin

I should have used the phrase ‘relatively big win’.

It’s safe to assume they went there to witness to passersby.

Instead, with with the help of police involvment, everyone on campus and probably in the local community has heard of them.


24 posted on 05/24/2009 7:40:11 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Willful ignorance is a dangerous attitude.)
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To: Balding_Eagle
"has heard of them"

And undermined the efforts of more credible groups operating on campus.

25 posted on 05/24/2009 7:47:20 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: brytlea
Hmmmm...I’m sorry but that sends out a big red flag to me.

Me too.

Did you see the article posted in 14? There's something not quite right about the cops actions. Since when does an American warrant an arrest for asking a question?

26 posted on 05/24/2009 7:50:32 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Ben Ficklin
I don't know Jason and I prefer reading all the info from the incident. That's why I posted the newspaper article in 14.

ONE student complained. So the Christians committed the crime of the century.

And they taped them on a cell phone. Horrible Christians! /s

27 posted on 05/24/2009 7:53:54 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: AnalogReigns

Change you can live? with.


28 posted on 05/24/2009 8:16:40 AM PDT by Waco (Libs exhale too much.)
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To: Gil4

It’s a public college.

Yes..and? Does that excuse the evangelists for not behaving in a manner that is both, consistent with the the institution’s requirements, and gets the job of evangelism done - St Paul didn’t carry signs, he just spoke and the Holy Spirit convicted. The evangelists were allowed to speak, they were asked not to carry signs. Were they looking for trouble and publicity or did they just want to preach the Gospel?

Mel


29 posted on 05/24/2009 8:24:08 AM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: Ben Ficklin
And undermined the efforts of more credible groups operating on campus.

Hard to know.

During any successful war a wide range of weapons are used.

Many Pro-Lifers object to the use of abortion photos in the abortion war. Many Partriots objected to the use of flamethrowers during WWII. Both weapons have served their purpose, just as these folks are serving thiers.

You may be put off by these guys, I think I might be too, but there are countless paths to the hearts, minds, and souls of different individuals, and these folks may have found just the right one for the right person.

30 posted on 05/24/2009 8:36:27 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Willful ignorance is a dangerous attitude.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
"reading all the info"

Myself, especially when WND is involved.

Doing that, you see that this is not Jason's first visit to this school, and he had to leave once before. The school explained the rules to both Jason and his lawyer. But he is back and he is trying to create an incident.

As for your phrase "horrible Christian", militant is a better description. Jason has "soldiers". You hear of "Joel's Army". Reply #19 frames it as a "war"

31 posted on 05/24/2009 8:45:29 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
ONE student complained as per the Dayton Daily News.

I'm so glad that you support the First Amendment. /s

32 posted on 05/24/2009 8:58:43 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Man50D

There’s a way to do things that produce results and then there’s a way to do things to draw attention to yourself.

This appears to be the latter.

If this fellow can’t do his work within the prescribed framework of the college regulations and in essence goes out to provoke a confrontation which it appears he did, then he gets what he has coming.

And freedom of speech is a precious thing, he appears to deliberately abuse the use of it.


33 posted on 05/24/2009 9:09:56 AM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: brytlea
The YouTube age is proving to be a decidedly unpleasant societal change for grifters within law enforcement, and for stooges of local Boss Hog wannabes.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids and their stupid dog camera.

34 posted on 05/24/2009 9:10:50 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

see #33


35 posted on 05/24/2009 9:18:02 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Man50D

MOST Secular campuses are havens for Lib-Smack...{silence opposition} being a Community College, the gov-bucks wield their dangerous power..and willing godless creeps will ALWAYS take the $$...Many
Board Members,Administrators and pompous Eggheads....really hate Christians...{Campus Cops are their “Brown Shirts.”}
this anti-Christian propaganda is passed on to inquiring minds.. “the yuuute of America..”.
Too many Christans are ashamed of their Faith and are pushovers for intimidation..
As was stated in WND. Natasha Baker {Director of Public Relations Sinclair Community College) note:
Gov $$ buys or gives her her coffee.
“There are gay pride rallies that take place on this campus.* Nobody gets offended by those things. The issue is not with our method; the issue is with our message.”
CHRISTIANS are the* “nobodies”...
also;
WND quotes Storms:
‘’It was just a crazy cowboy officer {Beane}acting belliger
ently and making his third arrest of the day of a group of Christians peacefully trying to witness.”
Beane & Baker drink from the same campus coffee cup...
“Godless birds of a feather stick together.”.


to::Storms, Pollion, Carroll, and any other Christians arrested, and
to all Christian Soldiers on the frontlines;
I say, HOO-RAH !”Onward Christian Soldiers!” In my prayers...always...semper fi


36 posted on 05/24/2009 10:03:14 AM PDT by rusureitflies? (OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD! There, I said it. Prove me wrong.)
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To: swmobuffalo

Where did the Founders explain what constitutes abuse of the First Amendment? I must have missed the exceptions. You can practice your religious free speech as long as you don’t annoy anyone.......hmmmm. I think Obama will have a place for you working with Napalitano.


37 posted on 05/24/2009 10:13:46 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Ben Ficklin

You want to limit frees speech if it pertains to religion. You fit right in with others that spit on the Constitution. The Founders listed no exceptions in the First Amendment..


38 posted on 05/24/2009 10:16:06 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: DJ MacWoW

“You can practice your religious free speech as long as you don’t annoy anyone.......hmmmm. I think Obama will have a place for you working with Napalitano.”

Not what I said and you can take your insult and put it where the sun don’t shine.

Now if you need further clarification as to what I said, by all means ask. Otherwise,..............................


39 posted on 05/24/2009 10:38:34 AM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: melsec

Paul spent a lot of time in prison. He probably didn’t have signs because you couldn’t go to Walmart and buy poster board...


40 posted on 05/24/2009 10:41:54 AM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: swmobuffalo
You said: And freedom of speech is a precious thing, he appears to deliberately abuse the use of it.

My suggestion to you is to read the whole article including the one from the newspaper in post 14. Oh and the legal comments in 14.

41 posted on 05/24/2009 10:46:19 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: DJ MacWoW

see #39


42 posted on 05/24/2009 11:15:34 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
I do my own speaking.
43 posted on 05/24/2009 11:17:03 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Myself, especially when WND is involved.

Doing that, you see that this is not Jason's first visit to this school, and he had to leave once before. The school explained the rules to both Jason and his lawyer. But he is back and he is trying to create an incident.


WND is not the most reliable source of information IMO.

And as I understand the 1st Amendment, we have the right to practice or not practice religion as we personally see fit and not have the government impede that freedom or establish an official State religion. We also have the right to free speech and to peaceably assemble.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

However the 1st Amendment no where implies we have a right to a captive audience for our views and peaceably assemble implies that there are some reasonable limits on how and where I can exercise my 1st Amendment rights.

For instance I can’t get together with a bunch of my friends and stand in the middle of I-95 with signs and placards and force motorists to take our pamphlets.

I also can’t walk into any building or institution unannounced; private or public and put on a demonstration especially if I harass or impede people from entering or leaving the building or attempt to force them to listen to my POV.

My take on this is that this group had been allowed on campus before but was asked to follow a few simple rules which they ignored. They were asked not to have signs and not try to force literature on people who didn’t want it. And that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

“Sinclair has set procedures for anyone who wants to speak on campus,” Gift said Wednesday night. “It is a public campus and we welcome anyone who wants to come and speak. All they have to do is follow the procedure.

“Gift said two members of the group were disorderly when they were told they could stay on campus if they got rid of their signs and did not distribute literature unless someone asked for it.”


I’m all for people exercising their freedom of speech and religion and peaceable assembly whether I agree with them or not.

But their freedom to do so should not impinge on mine. If a group is peaceably assembled and has pamphlets, they have the right to offer me one and I have the right to accept it or refuse. On the other hand, if I refuse, they don’t have the right to follow me, harangue me, yell at me and otherwise infringe on my right to ignore them and go about my business.
44 posted on 05/24/2009 11:27:57 AM PDT by Caramelgal (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
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To: brytlea

Could have chiseled them out of rock - LOL


45 posted on 05/24/2009 12:59:32 PM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: melsec

Boy, wouldn’t he have had great arms! He could certainly have worn sleeveless tunics! ;)


46 posted on 05/24/2009 1:01:30 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea

Not one of my fantasies but you go right ahead LOL :-)


47 posted on 05/24/2009 1:12:14 PM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: DJ MacWoW

“My take on this is that this group had been allowed on campus before but was asked to follow a few simple rules which they ignored. They were asked not to have signs and not try to force literature on people who didn’t want it. And that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.”


48 posted on 05/24/2009 1:38:30 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo
Too bad FR is populated by parrots today and no one that does their own research.

Check out the evil people for yourself.

Faithful Soldier

49 posted on 05/24/2009 1:58:17 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: melsec

Is it constitution to prohibit people from carrying signs on public property? I wasn’t there and I don’t know anything about the group. But I did see one note here that at one point the authorities were attempting to confiscate a cell phone that was recording the incident. That sounds like an attempt to hide evidence to me.


50 posted on 05/24/2009 8:24:14 PM PDT by Gil4
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