Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Porsche on the financial brink
The Telegraph ^ | 5/25/2009 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 05/25/2009 5:21:46 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

German car maker Porsche is struggling to raise €1.75bn (£1.54bn) to cover debts and unwind derivative positions stemming from its botched attempt to take over vastly-bigger Volkswagen.

Porsche's shares fell 3.1pc in Frankfurt on Monday after it emerged that the company had obtained a €700m loan from Volkswagen as long ago as March. A Porsche spokesman said the group is negotiating bridging finance with a variety of banks, including the state lender KfW.

It is understood that Porsche is also in talks with the Bank of Tokyo for a €750m loan, and is seeking help from the regional government of Baden-Wurttemberg.

The crisis is yet another headache for the German authorities as they put together a rescue deal this week for Opel, most likely with Fiat. Separately, the hotel and retail group Arcandor said it faced collapse without a €650m state bail-out. Arcandor's share price fell 20pc. The company owns the Karstadt department stores, Quelle, and Thomas Cook. It employs 50,000 workers.

Porsche acquired a 51pc share of VW earlier this year after a series of derivatives deals that tripled Porsche's debt to €9bn.

The takeover bid went badly wrong, forcing Porsche chief Ferdinand Piech to press instead for a merger of the two car makers on increasingly less favourable terms.

Porsche's travails are largely due to financial acrobatics, not falling sales.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Germany; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: automakers; germany; porsche
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

1 posted on 05/25/2009 5:21:47 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

They should get 0bama to force them into bankruptcy where he takes control.


2 posted on 05/25/2009 5:22:56 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

have you driven a porsche, lately?


3 posted on 05/25/2009 5:24:50 PM PDT by brivette
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

It is a very negative article on Porsche..Try this one.

http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13649071

After reaching an agreement on May 6th to call off Porsche’s improbable attempt to take over VW, a company 15 times its size, the Porsche and Piëch families, who control 100% of the voting stock in Porsche Automobil Holding, gave themselves four weeks to hammer out the terms and structure of a merger between the two firms. But Mr Piëch, who personally owns 10% of Porsche, has now made it quite clear that it is he and VW that are in the driving seat and not, as seemed likely only a few months ago, his cousin, Wolfgang Porsche, or Mr Wiedeking. The final shape of the merged group has yet to be fixed, but Mr Piëch dropped some pretty broad hints.


4 posted on 05/25/2009 5:27:57 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: brivette

Mind you I would love one and they still look cool, but my understanding is a lot of other brands, even Corvette, can outperform — across the board — Porsches by class, even a the super upper end.

Any car folk want to confirm or enhance?


5 posted on 05/25/2009 5:29:00 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

Take over Volkswagen?

A Porsche IS a Volkswagen - with a higher pricetag, some bodywork and a driver who loves retrotech.

(Donning Nomex and getting out the extinguisher.)


6 posted on 05/25/2009 5:29:34 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paladin2

Do not even joke about stuff like that....
Proud Porsche owner...


7 posted on 05/25/2009 5:30:18 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN
to call off Porsche’s improbable attempt to take over VW, a company 15 times its size, the

Typical Germans. My male Daschund fell in love with the neighbor's Labrador .....

8 posted on 05/25/2009 5:32:47 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003
Dollar for dollar (as long as that standard applies) there is no better value in performance cars on the market than the Corvette Z06 (top end) and the Chevy Cobalt SS (affordable end.)
9 posted on 05/25/2009 5:32:58 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
Porsche? That is pronounced like the name of that midget who sits on telephone books when testifying in front of Congress?
10 posted on 05/25/2009 5:33:18 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shibumi

That is what I have been hearing — Porsche has dropped to 3rd or 4th in all classes it competes in.


11 posted on 05/25/2009 5:35:47 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003

The two cars that I mentioned - I own one and a lazy relative of mine owns the other.

(The guy with no visible means of support has the Vette - go figger!)


12 posted on 05/25/2009 5:39:07 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: investigateworld

Porsche had this takeover in the works for years,if the economy had not gone south they would control VW now.
And yes the Germans have a habit of biting more than they can chew.

How does the dog love story end badly i presume?


13 posted on 05/25/2009 5:39:19 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003

I have never driven a Porsche but my sister in law has one and I have ridden in hers. It is probably the most uncomfortable car I have ever ridden in. Maybe they are so much fun to drive that the driver doesn’t realize the passenger wants out!


14 posted on 05/25/2009 5:39:49 PM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: devolve

Ping


15 posted on 05/25/2009 5:42:58 PM PDT by potlatch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shibumi

>>The guy with no visible means of support has the Vette - go figger!

Same way that the “poor people who followed the rules” being foreclosed on always have a beautiful 60” flat screen TV while I, who never has missed a payment, have a 10-year 32” old tube type.


16 posted on 05/25/2009 5:43:12 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

Let me get this straight: They are borrowing money from a company, larger than them, that they took over? How exactly does that work? Well, maybe it doesn’t work.


17 posted on 05/25/2009 5:43:31 PM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ditter

They aren’t that much fun.

The owners just won’t admit that they made an $80,000 mistake.


18 posted on 05/25/2009 5:44:56 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

The moral of this story: stick with what you know, and quit trying to make a dishonest buck with financial shenanigans!


19 posted on 05/25/2009 5:45:37 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003

The Porsche Turbo Carrera, 4-wheel drive, would do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds a number of years ago. That’s pretty impressive.

If only I could afford all the cars I wish. LOL

I like the ‘vette’s though. And the GT-40. And the Mustang GT. And a new Challenger and a new Camaro, too.


20 posted on 05/25/2009 5:49:23 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ditter
It is probably the most uncomfortable car I have ever ridden in.

It's a sports car, it's not designed for comfort.

21 posted on 05/25/2009 5:49:45 PM PDT by Wil H (The most destructive act of Muslim terrorism against the US was paying for 0bama's Harvard education)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ditter

Do you know which model it is?

I’d love to have a 911 from the mid 1980s. Non turbo is fine.


22 posted on 05/25/2009 5:50:18 PM PDT by Yardstick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Paladin2

I guess you would them call it the BOrsche?


23 posted on 05/25/2009 5:53:00 PM PDT by biff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Yardstick

I don’t know what the year or model is but it is newer than the 80’s.


24 posted on 05/25/2009 5:54:39 PM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: shibumi
and the Chevy Cobalt SS (affordable end.)

If you are referring to the supercharged SS, it was cancelled in 2008.

25 posted on 05/25/2009 5:55:05 PM PDT by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater

Got me a 2006 model. Coupe. Black. FAST! Corners real good too!


26 posted on 05/25/2009 5:56:30 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Wil H
I like the ‘vette’s though. And the GT-40. And the Mustang GT. And a new Challenger and a new Camaro, too.

The Ford GT, which is Ford's modern recreation of the GT 40 is in a class of it's own compared the Z06, Mustang or Camaro.

I have driven all of them on the track, and while the Z06 is an excellent car it still doesn't come close to the Ford GT.

Ford called their car the "Ford GT" since they couldn't use the name "GT 40" because Eric Broadley (Lola Cars), who built the original Le Mans vehicles, still owns the rights to the name.

27 posted on 05/25/2009 5:57:41 PM PDT by Wil H (The most destructive act of Muslim terrorism against the US was paying for 0bama's Harvard education)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003

Check out the Nissan GTR. One, bad automobile!


28 posted on 05/25/2009 6:00:03 PM PDT by 31R1O ("Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life."- Immanuel Kant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
unwind derivative positions

A statement with no meaning!!!

29 posted on 05/25/2009 6:11:11 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shibumi
ROFLOL, keep your tow insurance paid up!!!!

Oh, wait we tax payer are going to take care of that for you. So I guess we have heard from one of the welfare receivers.

30 posted on 05/25/2009 6:13:14 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: clee1
The moral of this story: stick with what you know, and quit trying to make a dishonest buck with financial shenanigans!

Boy would we all be a lot better off if the wall street crowd had practiced that about 8 years ago!!

31 posted on 05/25/2009 6:15:32 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

“We” = plural.

“Payer” = singular.

“Welfare receivers” - Are those the digital thingys for the TV that the feds were paying for?

As for the car, 30,000 miles. Not even a hiccup.


32 posted on 05/25/2009 6:23:37 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: 31R1O

“Check out the Nissan GTR. One, bad automobile!”

Good performance for the $. Maybe on par with Corvette?

Up a couple of notches up would be the Audi R8 with the 10 cylinder, 550 hp powerplant. Supremely balanced!! Street and trackwise.

And the Audi is part of the VW company.

Instead of Porsche buying VW, perhaps VW should buy Porche?

Is it money, egos, ?

They do share chassis and other technology (Taureg/Cayenne, etc.).


33 posted on 05/25/2009 6:27:26 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: brivette

“have you driven a porsche, lately?”

Ya

Sehr gut


34 posted on 05/25/2009 6:34:19 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: shibumi

I guess you have never drove a Porsche?
Vastly different cars..


35 posted on 05/25/2009 6:40:57 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Red_Devil 232
Porsche? That is pronounced like the name of that midget who sits on telephone books when testifying in front of Congress?

The difference is that the Porsche actually is useful and desirable...

36 posted on 05/25/2009 6:44:10 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN

You guess wrong.

I have driven many Porsches.

I just don’t like them.


37 posted on 05/25/2009 6:45:02 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
Had a 944 and a 280Z, preferred the Z.
38 posted on 05/25/2009 6:53:10 PM PDT by razorback-bert (We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

Very Shakespearean. Porsche’s Plea For Mercy.


39 posted on 05/25/2009 6:59:40 PM PDT by Erasmus (Barack Hussein Obama: America's toast!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shibumi
I have driven many Porsches.

That's fine but comparing them to VW is like a chevette to a Corvette..
No comparison..

40 posted on 05/25/2009 7:00:33 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN

Part of the problem is that cars nowadays have limits so very high that you can be a pitifully bad driver and still go faster than most great drivers could in real race cars only 15 or 20 years ago... there is no real difference on the street , in terms of usable speed, between a GTI and a Carrera4....

Porsche and VW/Audi do share platforms ...

The bug/356/912/earliest 911’s
The “Porsche” 914 was VW all the way and badged VW in Europe
The 924/944/931/968 was built by Audi and the 924/931 was Audi powered
The Touareg/Cayenne/Q7 are triplets (and Audi’s Q7 with the “LeMans” diesel 10 is far superior to any Cayenne)

I have raced rear engined air cooled 6cylinder 2 door sports cars (Corvair) and I find any 911 after the 1980’s to be seriously lacking in the fun factor area ,, fast ?? YOU BETCHA! but you don’t have that “you gotta stay in it or the A008r’s will come unglued out back” edginess.

Porsche needs to build a cheap fun car ... think lightweight and rear drive with no options or roof... something to compete with a S2000 at the same price point.


41 posted on 05/25/2009 7:00:53 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN

You are correct. There’s no comparison.

They are about $60,000 more expensive.

(Sorry! I’m afflicted with uncontrolled hyperbole.)


42 posted on 05/25/2009 7:05:15 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: potlatch

.

Thanks for the pingeroo potlatch

Fritz had big eyes

And a small wallet


43 posted on 05/25/2009 7:05:16 PM PDT by devolve ( . . . . . . . . . Obama confiscated Teacher & Police Union pension funds? . . . . . . . . . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: devolve

All I know about cars is getting in and driving one, lol, but I know how you like them.


44 posted on 05/25/2009 7:08:00 PM PDT by potlatch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN

That’s fine but comparing them to VW is like a chevette to a Corvette..
******************************************************
Your analogy is seriously flawed ,, at the time that Chevettes were in production their build quality far exceeded that of the Corvette.

I’d put a GTI VR32 against a BoxsterS on any road course.

A Corvette Z06 would kill anything Porsche makes including the GT2/GT3 “club racer” models, and it would do it with the A/C on and no factory options removed for weight savings.


45 posted on 05/25/2009 7:08:02 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN
See: Hedge funds hit as Porsche moves on VW and Editorial: How Porsche NSFWed the Hedge Funds for how the hedge funds (much to clever for their own good) took a real bath courtesy of Porche.

From the latter link:
"So you thought Porsche financed the VW takeover by foisting overpriced floormats and trucks on their well-heeled buyers? Yesterday’s issue of Die Welt, Germany’s conservative newspaper, thinks different. They undug the dirt on Porsche’s takeover-machinations of Volkswagen. It’s a story that makes Cerberus look like a frisky puppy. It’s an account that makes banks and hedge funds look like morons....."

46 posted on 05/25/2009 7:10:19 PM PDT by dickmc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN; Neidermeyer

By the way, I like Niedermeyer’s analysis.

In my not-so-humble opinion, the last really fun Porsche was the 911S Targa, circa 1969.

And also, by the way - beautiful family!


47 posted on 05/25/2009 7:12:55 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
"And the GT-40"

Try driving one of those into the rising or setting sun.

48 posted on 05/25/2009 7:13:27 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: potlatch

.

My Corsa-TRW/Turbo (very “slightly” modified) was my version of a Porsche

Borrowing some stock ‘Vette and Z-28 and Trans-Am parts and aircraft tech and the access to pro shops

There was no street production Porsche that would run with it

The Silver Bullet would zip to NYC and back each day


49 posted on 05/25/2009 7:23:14 PM PDT by devolve ( . . . . . . . . . Obama confiscated Teacher & Police Union pension funds? . . . . . . . . . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Wil H
Ford called their car the "Ford GT" since they couldn't use the name "GT 40" because Eric Broadley (Lola Cars), who built the original Le Mans vehicles, still owns the rights to the name.

Recently, the Ford GT-40 that first beat the Ferrari's went on auction. Bidded to > $6 million but not enough for a sale.

50 posted on 05/25/2009 7:27:11 PM PDT by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson