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Phillip Berg says no one in family will turn on Obama and demand copy of birth certificate
phone call to Berg ^ | 5-26-09 | dfu

Posted on 05/26/2009 1:08:58 PM PDT by doug from upland

PHILIP BERG WEBSITE

FROM THIS POST CAME A FREEPER SUGGESTION

To: doug from upland
"Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or “registrant” according to the legal description from the governor’s office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant." Well HERE's a thought. Why not wave some money under that half-brother of Zero's living in a shack in Kenya to request a copy. He's living on less than 5 bucks a day in some tin shack according to news reports. Common ancestor and all that. 128 posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 11:31:56 AM by gemoftheocean (...geez, this all seems so straight forward and logical to me...)

I briefly spoke to Berg on the phone today and inquired whether someone having the right to a copy of the infamous "birth" certificate would demand one from the county recorder in Hawaii. His immediate response was that no one in the family has turned on him. When I suggested that someone might for the right amount of money, he paused, then said that there is no money. He then had to get back to a long distance call which I had apparently interrupted.

So, there's the story. For enough money, would someone entitled to a copy demand a copy? Would Obama and his thugs pay him off to back down from such demand? Would that person simply disappear from the face of the earth?

The idea is a good one. If a million bucks was raised, wouldn't a relative cut a deal? Hmmmmmmm.......


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: akaobama; berg; birthcertificate; certifigate; eligibility; hawaii; ineligible; obama; philipberg; usurper
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/26/2009 1:08:58 PM PDT by doug from upland
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To: doug from upland
When I suggested that someone might for the right amount of money, he paused, then said that there is no money.

Ummmm. I thought that Berg had been raising money for months.

2 posted on 05/26/2009 1:12:39 PM PDT by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: doug from upland

This has got to be the wackiest time of our lives. And I thought the clintonistas were bad......


3 posted on 05/26/2009 1:14:11 PM PDT by b4its2late (There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.)
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To: doug from upland
...a person having a common ancestor with the registrant,...

His mother's family tree could be fruitful.

If you go out to his second-cousins, third-cousins, fourth-cousins ..., the net you can cast goes wider and wider as you go back to common great-grandparents, common great-great-grandparents, and so on.

There's got to be one of those people out there who are interested in said birth certificate.

4 posted on 05/26/2009 1:14:26 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: doug from upland

Even if Berg were able to offer a Zero relative a temping amount of money, it would boil down to the old question of whether the prospective $$ recipient thought they could stay alive long enuf to enjoy much of the money.

Accidents do happen, doncha know.


5 posted on 05/26/2009 1:16:10 PM PDT by webschooner
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To: doug from upland
What good is a million bucks if you're dead?
6 posted on 05/26/2009 1:16:34 PM PDT by Zakeet (Obama: Always wrong, never in doubt.)
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To: doug from upland

I thought Cheney was supposedly related to the community agitator.
I guess not enough.


7 posted on 05/26/2009 1:19:02 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: trumandogz

Ummmmmm Berg meant there is no money allocated to get a wayward relative to request an Obama birth certificate.


8 posted on 05/26/2009 1:19:26 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: doug from upland

Theres’ a greater need than family: QUALIFYING FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

But the Demonrats don’t require truth, do they? All they want is power.


9 posted on 05/26/2009 1:20:04 PM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - I Tim 2:5)
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To: b4its2late

The clintons and their minions are bad. It’s just the “magic negro” is a chicago criminal political pro and bill is an Arkansas dumbass.


10 posted on 05/26/2009 1:20:57 PM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: webschooner

I thought Orly had a realtive who was in the military who was going to join the lawsuit. I am sure that a realtive for $1 to 2 million would file the request.


11 posted on 05/26/2009 1:21:02 PM PDT by Frantzie
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To: Red Steel

Besides why would anyone give money for something that doesn’t seem to exist.

If something were produced I would certainly have it thoroughly checked out before signing the check.


12 posted on 05/26/2009 1:21:29 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: doug from upland

They’re not that stupid...they’ll wind up in a hole.


13 posted on 05/26/2009 1:21:33 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper
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To: doug from upland

I suspect few would turn Judas and become the one to bring a “black” man down.


14 posted on 05/26/2009 1:23:04 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: doug from upland

Remember who you are playing ball with - the most powerful group of people on earth.

You raise a million!!! Wow! Obama will get them twenty five million - or kill them.


15 posted on 05/26/2009 1:23:23 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: doug from upland

I wonder what the precedent of one over the other is and if there are any qualifiers?


16 posted on 05/26/2009 1:23:46 PM PDT by deport
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To: doug from upland

I believe there is someone out there that would go for the money as I am sure there are people besides Obama and company already have the knowledge.


17 posted on 05/26/2009 1:24:41 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: doug from upland

If yer fishin for donations, count me in. I’m sick to death of this dumbass and his special brand of Marxism.


18 posted on 05/26/2009 1:26:32 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: Red Steel
Berg meant there is no money allocated to get a wayward relative to request an Obama birth certificate.

Okay thanks, I was not on that call.

He then had to get back to a long distance call which I had apparently interrupted.

What is this, 1989? Who still uses "long distance?" And while I have friends and work associates in most states, I have not had to make a "long distance" call in years. From the best I can tell, 99% of the people have free long distance phone service.

19 posted on 05/26/2009 1:27:08 PM PDT by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: doug from upland

Berg apparently has a good scam going. Getting the certificate would make him have to get a real job.


20 posted on 05/26/2009 1:28:31 PM PDT by Jewbacca (Yes, I am very hairy and good with small arms.)
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To: DuncanWaring

I thought I read that VP Cheney was a distant relative...?


21 posted on 05/26/2009 1:31:38 PM PDT by willgolfforfood
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To: DuncanWaring

I would bet that the zero would pay even more to buy them off. If he couldn’t buy them off, one of the thugs in the family could probably make them disappear.


22 posted on 05/26/2009 1:37:01 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Socialism is the belief that most people are better off if everyone was equally poor and miserable.)
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To: doug from upland

We can’t even get people to donate to FR to keep the site running. This has to be the longest fund raiser in the history of FR.


23 posted on 05/26/2009 1:37:51 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Socialism is the belief that most people are better off if everyone was equally poor and miserable.)
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To: willgolfforfood

Cheney had his chance in January to challenge Obama’s status as a NBC citizen but Cheney elected not to do so.


24 posted on 05/26/2009 1:39:15 PM PDT by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: willgolfforfood

I faintly recall reading the same thing myself.


25 posted on 05/26/2009 1:40:58 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: doug from upland

Then there is no excuse — there are anti bama cousins.


26 posted on 05/26/2009 1:44:40 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: trumandogz

“From the best I can tell, 99% of the people have free long distance phone service.”

Never heard of free long distance.


27 posted on 05/26/2009 1:51:47 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: doug from upland

This quest for Barry’s birth certificate is a waste of time. I wish it were otherwise. But if there are those that must persist in futile endeavors, then so be it. The money should never be handed over until after a verified certificate is produced. Everyone should be wary of the half-brother as he is a bad character. I’d be wary of all of the relatives.


28 posted on 05/26/2009 1:52:14 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: RoadTest

When rats spout the slogan “truth to power”, they mean “sacrifice truth to gain power”.


29 posted on 05/26/2009 2:08:21 PM PDT by mrsmel (Put the Gitmo terrorists near Capitol Hill.)
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To: mrsmel
a person having a common ancestor with the registrant,

Dick Cheney
30 posted on 05/26/2009 2:14:36 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: dalereed

Mine cost me money.


31 posted on 05/26/2009 2:15:44 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: mrsmel

“When rats spout the slogan “truth to power”, they mean “sacrifice truth to gain power”.”

Correct. Thats what today’s Democrats are all about, and they are now hooked in with the world power people. Truth, freedom, justice are only tools to their ends.


32 posted on 05/26/2009 2:16:17 PM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - I Tim 2:5)
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To: trumandogz
 
When I suggested that someone might for the right amount of money, he paused, then said that there is no money.

Ummmm. I thought that Berg had been raising money for months.

I wonder if all these guys who 'brought it it trial', failed because that was their intention; to make the Republican chumps think that it was being taken care of.

33 posted on 05/26/2009 2:21:44 PM PDT by antonia (A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow)
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To: gemoftheocean

heads up


34 posted on 05/26/2009 2:28:41 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

Warning: no real new ground here, but simply a logical process to be able to get the long form BC. However, being somewhat of an amateur genealogist (for myself), I do know how to do research (see the bottom part of this post - the top deals with legal issues).

The section of Hawaii’s law that deals with access to vital records is HRS Section 338(18), the text of which is here: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

Subsection (b)(5) reads as follows:

“(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

...

(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;”
______________________________________________________

The website for the Hawaii State Department of Health, located at http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html indicates

“A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest:

...

a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);”
________________________________________________________
Neither the text of the law, nor the information on the website, seem to restrict the degree of consanguinity (i.e. relatedness, the point at which one is so distant a relative as to not be considered eligible by virtue of having “a common ancestor”). I am unaware of any cases dealing with Subsection (b)(5) that bear directly on this issue, though someone with access to Westlaw could look that one up in a very short timeframe. Assuming that the text actually means what it says, any relative of Obama’s on his mother’s side - meaning first cousins, aunts, uncles, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins, etc. (since great- and great, great- uncles and aunts, etc. are highly unlikely to be alive) could request this document (i.e. the long form BC).

We need to find such a person, and get him or her to make the request. Dick Cheney won’t, I’m sure, do it (even if he might wish to do so), and would in any case have to prove common ancestry with BO’s mother back about 10 generations. SURELY there’s someone a lot closer who could prove such a relationship, and would be willing to do so?
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
As an aid to finding such people, consider the following:

Ancestors of Stanley Armour Dunham (BO’s maternal grandfather): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Armour_Dunham

From the article:

“[edit] Ancestry
Stanley Dunham’s heritage consists of English, Irish, German and other European ancestors who settled in the American colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries.[2]

The most recent native European ancestor was Falmouth Kearney, a farmer who emigrated from Moneygall, County Offaly, Ireland during the Great Irish Famine and settled in Jefferson Township, Tipton County, Indiana. Kearney’s youngest daughter, Mary Ann (Kearney) Dunham, was Stanley Dunham’s paternal grandmother.[3]

Through a common ancestor, Mareen Duvall (a wealthy Huguenot merchant who emigrated to Maryland in the 1650s, Stanley Dunham is related to former Vice-President Dick Cheney (an eighth cousin once removed).[4] Through another common ancestor, Hans Gutknecht, a Swiss German from Bischwiller, Alsace whose three sons resettled in Germantown, Pennsylvania as well as the Kentucky frontier in the mid-1700s, Stanley Dunham is also related to President Harry S Truman (fourth cousins, twice removed).[5][6][7]

[edit] Early life
His parents were Ralph Waldo Emerson Dunham, Sr. and Ruth Lucille Armour, [8] from Wichita, Kansas. His father’s ancestors settled in Kempton, Indiana in the 1840s.[9]

Ralph and Ruth Dunham were married in a home on S. St. Francis, Wichita. “

_______________________________________

Now for BO’s maternal grandmother:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelyn_Dunham

From the article:

“Madelyn Lee Payne was born in Peru, Kansas, the eldest daughter of Rolla Charles “R.C.” Payne and Leona Belle (McCurry) Payne.”

...

“According to oral tradition, Madelyn Dunham’s mother had some Cherokee ancestors.[38][39] Her heritage consists mostly of English ancestors, and smaller amounts of Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Swiss ancestors, who settled in the American colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries.[40] Her two most recent native European ancestors were her great-great grandpathers [sic], Lewis Wolfley (originally Ludwig), a Swiss immigrant, and Robert Perry, who was born in Anglesey, Wales in 1786 and whose father, Henry Perry, first settler of Radnor, Ohio in 1803. Robert Perry’s wife, Sarah Hoskins, was also born in Wales and immigrated to Delaware County, Ohio as a young child.”
____________________________________________________

OK, folks, you have family names and ancestral towns. Start searching - maybe YOU are descended from a common ancestor with Barack Hussein Obama, and are entitled under Hawaii law to obtain a certified copy of his long form birth certificate!

PLEASE copy this post verbatim, and sent it to everyone you know whom you think may be helpful. I honestly don’t know if this guy is Constitutionally qualified to be the President of the United States - but I’d like to know, either way. The fact of his, and the Democratic Party’s, approximately $1 million of legal efforts to deny access to this document is, to say the least, highly suspicious and deeply disturbing.


35 posted on 05/26/2009 2:30:22 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: doug from upland

ELECTION 2008
Obama’s birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document
Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Gov. Linda Lingle, R-Hawaii

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama’s birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

The governor’s office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.

“It does not appear that Dr. Corsi is within any of these categories of persons with a direct and tangible interest in the birth certificate he seeks,” wrote Roz Makuala, manager of constituent services in the governor’s office, in an e-mailed response to a WND request seeking the information.

Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or “registrant” according to the legal description from the governor’s office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.

(Story continues below)

Click Here

WND was told the official reason for denial of access to Obama’s birth certificate would be authority granted pursuant to Section 338-18 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, a provision the anonymous source claimed was designed to prevent identity theft.

Still, the source told WND confidentially the motivation for withholding the original birth certificate was political, although the source refused to disclose whether there was any information on the original birth certificate that would prove politically embarrassing to Obama.

Get the book that started it all, Jerome Corsi’s “The Obama Nation,” autographed by the author, exclusively from WND’s online store for the amazing low price of just $4.95.

The source also refused to answer WND’s question whether the original document on file with the Department of Health was a hospital-generated birth certificate or a registration of birth that may have been filed subsequent to the birth.

The anonymous source made clear the Hawaii Department of Health would immediately release Obama’s original birth certificate, provided Obama requested the document be released, but the Department of Heath has received no such request from the senator or from anyone acting officially on his behalf.

WND also found on microfilm in the Honolulu downtown public library a notice published under the “Births, Marriages, Deaths” section of the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser for August 13, 1961, on page B-6, noting: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack II Obama. 6085 Kalanianaole-Hwy, son, Aug. 4.”

In searching through the birth notices of the Honolulu Advertiser for 1961, WND found many birth notices were published between one and two weeks after the date of birth listed.

The notice in the Honolulu Advertiser does not list the hospital where the Obama son was born or the doctor who delivered the baby.

In a startling development, Obama’s Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama’s birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

Friday, U.S. Federal judge Richard Barclay Surrick, a Clinton appointee, dismissed a lawsuit brought by Pennsylvania attorney Phillip J. Berg who alleged Obama was not a U.S. “natural born” citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency under the specifications of the U.S. Constitution, under Article II, Section 1.

Berg told WND last week he does not have a copy of a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama that he alleges exists.

In Kenya, WND was told by government authorities that all documents concerning Obama were under seal until after the U.S. presidential election on November 4.

The Obama campaign website entitled “Fight the Smears” posts a state of Hawaii “Certificate of Live Birth” which is obviously not the original birth certificate generated by the hospital where Obama reportedly was born.

“Fight the Smears” declares, “The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.”

Although the Obama campaign could immediately put an end to all the challenges by simply producing the candidate’s original birth certificate, it has not done so. And the “Fight the Smears” website offers no explanation as to why Obama has refused to request, and make public, an original hospital-generated birth certificate which the Hawaii Department of Health may possess.


36 posted on 05/26/2009 2:35:17 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

HERE IS THE FORM A RELATIVE NEEDS TO SUBMIT

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/pdf/birth.pdf


37 posted on 05/26/2009 2:37:46 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: oneamericanvoice
I’d be wary of all of the relatives.

Well, the closer ones, maybe. However, see my Post #35. "ALL" of the relatives almost certainly encompasses a LOT of people - many of whom are undoubtedly very responsible, decent people. One of them definitely is, IMHO - one Richard Bruce Cheney, the 46th Vice President of the United States.

You're right, this might be a waste of time - but riddle me this: IF it is, then why have Obama and the DNC spent something on the order of $1 million to deny access to this document to anyone else?

I think it worth the effort for someone on FR to track down a legitimate person who shares a common ancestor with BO, just to see what it is that is apparently so valuable to be protected. What's the secret? Me, I suspect one of 2 things - either he's not a legitimate natural born citizen OR his real father isn't Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., but Frank Marshall Davis. If it is all nothingness, then the burden is on BO (and the DNC, although I don't really care what they say) to explain why he spent so much money trying to suppress this information.

38 posted on 05/26/2009 2:43:19 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: freekitty
The Saudi's, the Mossad, the CIA and the Indonesian Security people all know at some level! Obama is highly vulnerable!
39 posted on 05/26/2009 2:45:05 PM PDT by WellyP
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To: Ancesthntr

Have any States pass a law requiring the presentation of an origional Birth Certificate before standing for election ot office?


40 posted on 05/26/2009 2:56:16 PM PDT by WellyP
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To: WellyP
Have any States pass a law requiring the presentation of an origional Birth Certificate before standing for election ot office?

Not to my knowledge, but all you need is ONE, and this kind of thing can never happen again.

41 posted on 05/26/2009 3:03:47 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: Ancesthntr

Good stuff


42 posted on 05/26/2009 3:14:27 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

I just spoke with someone at the Department of Health, Vital Records in Hawaii. If I can trace an ancestor, I indeed have the right for a copy of that tnfamous birth certificate. The problem, I suspect, is whether the records submitted to them could be verified. Ancestral records would be very difficult to prove, particularly from another country. Obama’s evil legal team, of course, would challenge any such effort.


43 posted on 05/26/2009 3:30:36 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland
Lynne Cheney: VP, Obama are eighth cousins Obama camp responds to revelation: ‘Every family has a black sheep’

WASHINGTON - Though they may spar across the political aisle, Vice President Dick Cheney is close enough to Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama to call him “cousin.”

Eighth cousin, that is.

Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, revealed this tantalizing bit of political trivia during a television interview Tuesday.

She said she uncovered the long-ago ties between the two while researching her ancestry for her latest book, “Blue Skies, No Fences,” a memoir about growing up in Wyoming.

“This is such an amazing American story that one ancestor ... could be responsible down the family lines for lives that have taken such different and varied paths as Dick’s and Barack Obama,” Lynne Cheney told MSNBC.

According to her spokeswoman, Sen. Obama, D-Ill., is a descendent of Mareen Duvall. This French Huguenot’s son married the granddaughter of a Richard Cheney, who arrived in Maryland in the late 1650s from England, said Ginny Justice, a spokeswoman for Lynne Cheney.

The vice president’s full name is Richard B. Cheney.

A spokesman for Obama, who wants to be the first black U.S. president, offered a tongue-in-cheek response. “Every family has a black sheep,” said spokesman Bill Burton.

Lynne Cheney did not reference the ancestral ties between her husband and Obama in the book.

44 posted on 05/26/2009 3:34:38 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: WellyP

I imagine there’s more too.


45 posted on 05/26/2009 3:55:49 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: doug from upland

Why the Obama Birth Certificate Issue Is Legitimate

CLOSE [X]
Does this Barack Obama birth certificate issue bug you because, although improbable, it’s possible that he’s not a natural born citizen, isn’t eligible to be President under the Constitution, and this issue could be bigger than Watergate — or any other “gate” in history?

Are you afraid that if you were even to raise the subject with your friends that they will think you wear a tinfoil hat, bec More..ause Factcheck.org, the final arbiter of truth in the universe, said so?

Are you with the news media, and after spending so much money to get Barack Obama elected, you’d hate to ruin your investment?

Are you a talk radio host who thinks that if you say the burden of proof needed to demonstrate one is eligible to be Commander in Chief should be at least as high as, oh, say, the level to be eligible for Hawaiian homestead status (see 1.F. below), that you’d be forced to give equal time to someone who disagrees?

Are you a conservative, libertarian, or any conscientious constitutionalist from any ideological side of life, who’s convinced something’s not right, but you’re afraid your reputation might be tarnished because, after all, this could be one big Saul-Alinsky-style set-up, and the joke would be on you?

Fear not! Joe the Farmer has prepared an outline showing that no matter how this issue is ultimately resolved, you have legitimate concerns, and that Barack Obama should, simply out of respect for the nation he was elected to lead, disclose the sealed vault copy of his birth certificate.

Given the circumstances, if Barack Obama respected this nation, he would prove it by the simplest and easiest of gestures - unless, of course, all this talk about change and hope was just a bunch of bull, and he’s just “another politician.” Here’s the outline:

1. Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

A. From Hawaii’s official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: “Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country” (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.

F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.”

2. Contrary to what you may have read, no document made available to the public, nor any statement by Hawaiian officials, evidences conclusively that Obama was born in Hawaii.

A. Associated Press reported about a statement of Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Fukino, “State declares Obama birth certificate genuine.”

B. That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino “ha[s] personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” That statement does not, however, verify that Obama was born in Hawaii, and as explained above, under Hawaiian policies and procedures it is quite possible that Hawaii may have a birth record of a person not born in Hawaii. Unlikely, but possible.

C. The document that the Obama campaign released to the public is a certified copy of Obama’s birth record, which is not the best evidence since, even under Hawaiian law, the original vault copy is the better evidence. Presumably, the vault record would show whether his birth was registered by a hospital in Hawaii.

D. Without accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, we nevertheless know that some people have gone to great lengths, even in violation of laws, rules and procedures, to confer the many benefits of United States citizenship on themselves and their children. Given the structure of the Hawaiian law, the fact that a parent may register a birth, and the limited but inherent potential for human error within the system, it is possible that a parent of a child born out-of-state could have registered that birth to confer the benefits of U.S. citizenship, or simply to avoid bureaucratic hassles at that time or later in the child’s life.

1. We don’t know whether the standards of registration by the Department of Health were more or less stringent in 1961 (the year of Obama’s birth) than they are today. However, especially with post-9/11 scrutiny, we do know that there have been instances of fraudulent registrations of foreign births as American births.

2. From a 2004 Department of Justice news release about multiple New Jersey vital statistics employees engaged in schemes to issue birth certificates to foreign-born individuals: “An individual who paid Anderson and her co-conspirators for the service of creating the false birth records could then go to Office of Vital Statistics to receive a birth certificate . . . As part of the investigation, federal agents executed a search warrant of the HCOVS on Feb. 18, 2004, which resulted in the seizure of hundreds of suspect Certificates of Live Birth which falsely indicated that the named individuals were born in Jersey City, when in fact, they were born outside the United States and were in the United States illegally . . . Bhutta purchased from Goswamy false birth certificates for himself and his three foreign-born children.”

3. Even before 9/11, government officials acknowledged the “ease” of obtaining birth certificates fraudulently. From 1999 testimony by one Social Security Administration official: “Furthermore, the identity data contained in Social Security records are only as reliable as the evidence on which the data are based. The documents that a card applicant must present to establish age, identity, and citizenship, usually a birth certificate and immigration documents-are relatively easy to alter, counterfeit, or obtain fraudulently.”

3. It has been reported that the Kenyan government has sealed Obama’s records. If he were born in Kenya, as has been rumored even recently, the Kenyan government would certainly have many incentives to keep that undisclosed. Objectively, of course, those records may prove nothing. Obama’s refusal to release records at many levels here in the United States, though, merely fuels speculation.

4. Obama has refused to disclose the vault copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate. This raises the question whether he himself has established that he is eligible to be President. To date, no state or federal election official, nor any government authority, has verified that he ever established conclusively that he meets the eligibility standard under the Constitution. If the burden of proof were on him, perhaps as it should be for the highest office of any individual in America, the more-than-dozen lawsuits challenging his eligibility would be unnecessary.

A. Had he disclosed his vault copy in the Berg v. Obama lawsuit (which was the first lawsuit filed on the question of his eligibility to be President), and it was established he was born in Hawaii, that would have constituted res judicata, and acted to stop other similar lawsuits being filed. Without res judicata (meaning, the matter is adjudged and settled conclusively) he or government officials will need to defend other lawsuits, and valuable court resources will be expended. Strategically from a legal standpoint, therefore, his refusal to disclose doesn’t make sense. Weighing factors such as costs, resources and complexity of disclosing versus not disclosing, he must have reason of considerable downside in disclosing, or upside in not disclosing. There may be other reasons, but one could speculate that he hasn’t disclosed because:

1. He was not born in Hawaii, and may not be eligible to be President;

2. He was born in Hawaii, but facts that may be derived from his vault copy birth certificate are inconsistent with the life story he has told (and sold);

3. He was born in Hawaii, and his refusal to provide the best evidence that he is a natural born citizen is a means by which to draw criticism of him in order to make him appear to be a “victim.” This would energize his supporters. This would also make other charges about him seem suspect, including his concealment about ties to Bill Ayers and others of some infamy. Such a clever yet distasteful tactic would seem to be a Machiavelli- and Saul-Alinsky-style way to manipulate public opinion. But while this tactic may energize his supporters, it would convince those who believe him to be a manipulator that he’s not only just that, but a real pro at it. This would indeed be the basest reason of all, and would have repercussions about his trustworthiness (both here and abroad), which Americans know, is a characteristic sorely lacking in its leaders.

B. His motion to dismiss the Berg case for lack of standing could be viewed as contemptuous of the Constitution. See, “Who Enforces the Constitution’s Natural Born Citizen Clause?” Are we to expect yet another White House that hides behind lawyers, and expects Americans to swallow half-truths on a just-trust-me basis?

C. This issue poses the potential for a constitutional crisis unlike anything this country has seen. Disclosure at this stage, however, could even result in criminal sanctions. See, “Obama Must Stand Up Now Or Step Down.” Thus, he has motive not to disclose if he were ineligible.

The question not being asked by the holders of power, who dismiss this as a rightwing conspiracy, is what’s the downside of disclosing? This is a legitimate issue of inquiry because Barack Obama has turned it into one. The growing number of people who demand an answer in conformance with the Constitution are doing their work; the people’s watchdogs aren’t.

The pen name Joe the Farmer pays tribute to Joe the Plumber, who had the audacity to ask a question.


46 posted on 05/26/2009 4:07:12 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]


47 posted on 05/26/2009 4:10:06 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland
Who needs the family to do anything when the Constitution itself DEMANDS that our representatives do it?
48 posted on 05/26/2009 4:20:17 PM PDT by Uncle Sham
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To: Uncle Sham

Great info from document examiner

http://www.uslaw.com/library/Obama_Citizenship/Keyes_v_Lingle_Case_Dismissed_Forensic_Examiner_Disproves_Online_COLB.php?item=334969


49 posted on 05/26/2009 5:13:57 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

WOULD YOU “PROTECT” Obama’s “birth” certificate?
PENDING LEGISLATION TO PROTECT barrys real birth!! WND Exclusive BORN IN THE USA? Revealed: ‘The Obama birth certificate protection act’? Bill would prohibit compelling executive branch from r... PENDING LEGISLATION TO PROTECT barrys real birth!!

WND Exclusive BORN IN THE USA?
Revealed: ‘The Obama birth certificate protection act’?
Bill would prohibit compelling executive branch from releasing documents
Posted: May 24, 2009
9:12 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Barack Obama, the man elected president

WASHINGTON – A bill approved by the House of Representatives and referred to the Senate would prohibit federal employees
of the executive branch from being compelled to release any document unless a court makes a specified determination by a preponderance of evidence – legislation at least one group suspects is designed to protect Barack Obama’s elusive birth certificate from release.

The legislation, HR 985, resides in the Senate Judiciary Committee.


50 posted on 05/26/2009 5:27:36 PM PDT by doug from upland (10 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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