Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

County puts kibosh on home Bible study
OneNewsNow ^ | 5/28/09 | Allie Martin

Posted on 05/28/2009 1:30:17 PM PDT by wagglebee

A San Diego pastor says county officials have told him he needs a permit to host a weekly Bible study in his home.

Pastor David Jones and his wife, Mary, were hosting the weekly study near their church, when they say they were visited by a county code enforcement officer. According to Dean Broyles, an attorney for the Joneses, the county official asked the pastor if they hosted a regular weekly meeting in their home, and if they prayed and said "Amen" and "Praise the Lord" at those meetings.
 
After replying in the affirmative to those inquiries, a subsequent citation notified the couple they were in violation of county regulations, should stop "religious assembly," and needed to apply for a "major use" permit to continue the gatherings -- a process that could cost several thousands dollars.
 
Jones, his wife, and their attorney, Dean Broyles, were interviewed on the Fox News Channel. Broyles says the couple's rights have been violated.
 
"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," says the attorney. "And I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves if they saw that here in the year 2009 that a pastor and his wife are being told that they can't have a simple Bible study in their own home."
 
The American Family Association has launched an online petition drive related to the incident, asking the San Diego County Board of Supervisors to immediately stop interfering with the rights of individuals to hold Bible studies in their homes.
 
Jones and his wife say they will continue to challenge the county's policy. About 15 people attend the weekly meetings. 


View related video news report



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: biblestudy; christianity; christians; firstamendment; moralabsolutes; persecution; religiousfreedom; sandiego; zoning
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-91 next last
"And I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves if they saw that here in the year 2009 that a pastor and his wife are being told that they can't have a simple Bible study in their own home."

No, they would probably tar and feather the bastards who are trying to destroy freedom.

1 posted on 05/28/2009 1:30:17 PM PDT by wagglebee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


2 posted on 05/28/2009 1:31:07 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RhoTheta

WTH??


3 posted on 05/28/2009 1:31:49 PM PDT by Egon (The difference between Theory and Practice: In Theory, there is no difference.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

more:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2260018/posts


4 posted on 05/28/2009 1:32:33 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

this is disgraceful, our once Great Country, is on it’s way to hell


5 posted on 05/28/2009 1:33:00 PM PDT by peace with honor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

I like this thread better, more detail. Your link has only a one line excerpt. Tough to download Fox on dialup.


6 posted on 05/28/2009 1:34:33 PM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Please God Save The United States From The Democrats, and Barack Hussein Obama. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I’m not particularly religous but this is an absolute outrage. This country was founded on the notion of getting away from things just like this. That it could happen here, now is incomprehensible to me.


7 posted on 05/28/2009 1:35:16 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Control the teleprompter, control the agenda!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Insane.


8 posted on 05/28/2009 1:35:25 PM PDT by Gator113 (Weak-coward-racist-white hating-lying-traitor= Surrender Monkey in Chief-B. Hussein Obama...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tutstar; WKB; NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480; DaveLoneRanger; Gamecock; Huber; ...

General ping, they are trying to DESTROY our God-given rights!

Please ping your lists.


9 posted on 05/28/2009 1:35:25 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The First amendment was incorporated by the 14th Amendment. Looks like a clear freedom of religion lawsuit.

10 posted on 05/28/2009 1:35:30 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Socialism is the belief that most people are better off if everyone was equally poor and miserable.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Just how close are we to being a Communist country? How many people were at this Bible study? What is the difference between hosting a Bridal Shower and a Bible Study besides the “amen” and “Praise the Lord”?
If I did not know any better, I would think Christianity is under attack. (sarcasm).
Oh, let’s see - this was in California. Was the county official a homosexual with an agenda?


11 posted on 05/28/2009 1:35:44 PM PDT by texteacher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

Thanks, the search missed it due to a completely different title and source.


12 posted on 05/28/2009 1:36:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

With this you can begin the COUNTDOWN to the catastrophic(Irwin Allen like) earthquake which will devastate CA.


13 posted on 05/28/2009 1:37:11 PM PDT by LeonardFMason
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

This will be overturned in court.
We are not that far gone, not yet!


14 posted on 05/28/2009 1:37:19 PM PDT by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: texteacher

Okay, I was so mad I did not read the entire article. Fifteen people in attendance - bridal showers, birthday parties, even barbeques usually have 15 or more in attendance. Have any of these events been visited by officials?


15 posted on 05/28/2009 1:37:59 PM PDT by texteacher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

The LEO trying to enforce this garbage needs to be laughed at.


16 posted on 05/28/2009 1:39:08 PM PDT by Antoninus (Queer is boring.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
Its unconstitutional of course. The government cannot prohibit free speech or the free exercise of religion. I wouldn't go along with such an order. It won't survive in court.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

17 posted on 05/28/2009 1:39:08 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

The mere fact that they are even trying to do this is disturbing enough.


18 posted on 05/28/2009 1:39:24 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: texteacher

Better than a Bridal Shower would be a Thanksgiving Dinner, a Seder or Easter Brunch, which typically includes a prayer and Amen.


19 posted on 05/28/2009 1:40:02 PM PDT by Boiler Plate ("Why be difficult, when with just a little more work, you can be impossible" Mom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
I agree, but we have plenty of court cases on our side.

This is a “teachable moment” where we can prove to other liberals that liberal politicians are tyrants, and ignorant on the law.

20 posted on 05/28/2009 1:41:03 PM PDT by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
I agree, but we have plenty of court cases on our side.

This is a “teachable moment” where we can prove to other liberals that liberal politicians are tyrants, and ignorant on the law.

21 posted on 05/28/2009 1:41:11 PM PDT by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Should’a told ‘em it was a wife swapping party, then they’d be ok....


22 posted on 05/28/2009 1:42:38 PM PDT by G Larry (ObamaCare = "DYING IN LINE!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I think there is one more with a bit more detail, different source too.


23 posted on 05/28/2009 1:43:20 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
Yes, the government cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion nor the freedom of assembly. However, I would imagine the police would respond in the same manner if a family in the same neighborhood held weekly gay and lesbian meetings.
24 posted on 05/28/2009 1:44:06 PM PDT by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

The only conceivable objection to this would be if there was a huge crush of cars in a residential neighborhood.

But 15 people? Maybe 7 or 8 cars? This is clearly unconstitutional.


25 posted on 05/28/2009 1:44:53 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trumandogz
However, I would imagine the police would respond in the same manner if a family in the same neighborhood held weekly gay and lesbian meetings.

That was sarcasm right?

26 posted on 05/28/2009 1:49:50 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Seeing a Marxist in the White House has encouraged Leftist wannabe totalitarians all over the country to help the U.S. catch up with more fully developed Communist countries like China, where “house churches” are viciously crushed by the authorities.


27 posted on 05/28/2009 1:52:21 PM PDT by hellbender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee; prairiebreeze; Beloved Levinite; TwelveOfTwenty; arderkrag; dixiebelle; raynearhood; ...

Baptist Ping


28 posted on 05/28/2009 1:54:06 PM PDT by WKB (From "Handout" to "Bailout")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I would have undoubtedly told the government clown to go directly to ...! This is incredible, but unfortunately not unbelievable today.


29 posted on 05/28/2009 1:54:48 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
The only conceivable objection to this would be if there was a huge crush of cars in a residential neighborhood.

If this were the case, the only appropriate reaction is to further regulate parking in the area. This would solve the neighbor's problem. Requiring the party to pay for a permit does not solve the neighbor's problem, only enriches the local government.

30 posted on 05/28/2009 1:57:59 PM PDT by Dianna (Obama Barbie: Governing is hard.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
And they will be stopping them how?

crickets chirp.

Tell them to go embrace themselves and ignore them...

31 posted on 05/28/2009 1:58:50 PM PDT by JasonC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

It’s getting ridiculous.


32 posted on 05/28/2009 2:07:13 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: AxelPaulsenJr

There’s more. Dialup is awful. I am soooo glad I got rid of it.


33 posted on 05/28/2009 2:08:19 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: LeonardFMason

I’m afraid you may be right. You can only slap God in the face so much and then He reacts...


34 posted on 05/28/2009 2:09:38 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: WKB

Wow. This is very disturbing....


35 posted on 05/28/2009 2:10:19 PM PDT by dixiebelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

I don’t recall the part of the Constitution that addresses the zoning limitations on the 1st Amendment. Over the last 50 years we have quietly let the 1st Amendment be washed away by zoning, and permits, and campaign finance laws. I really don’t think John Adams or Thomas Jefferson would give a rats ass about parking. Freedom of assembly does not exist in America today.


36 posted on 05/28/2009 2:11:39 PM PDT by azcap (Who is John Galt ? www.conservativeshirts.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Besides,if it was just about parking why all the questions about what was going on inside the home?

The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.

No mention of the bureaucrat complaining about the cars.

37 posted on 05/28/2009 2:14:54 PM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: azcap

No, I’m not saying that anyone SHOULD be coming around from the County asking about Bible reading or telling anyone not to hold meetings.

I just said that the ONLY reason I could think of for neighbors to complain, which is how these things usually start, was too many cars blocking up the street. But the number of cars was actually pretty small.

So it really makes no sense.

If there WERE a lot of cars, then there might be some reason to try to work something out to avoid inconveniencing the neighbors. But there WEREN’T.

In other words, I’d tell them to go suck eggs.


38 posted on 05/28/2009 2:21:35 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

First they came for the Pro-Life Catholics and I did not speak out because I was not a Pro-Life or Catholic. Then they came for the Evangelical Home-Schoolers and I did not speak out because I was not an Evangelicalnor nor did I home school. Then they came for the Veterans and the Gun Owners and I did not speak out because I was not a Veteran and I did not own a gun. They kept coming and soon took away many of my neighbors and I stood by and said nothing, I only worried each time that they had come for me, but they did not. Finally there came a time when they stopped coming and I and the few neighbors who were also spared gathered to discuss how relieved we were that the troubles now seemed to be over and how lucky we were not to have been taken away. And we rejoiced that we had been spared until one neighbor pointed out: “They have no need to come for those who are obedient slaves.”


39 posted on 05/28/2009 2:25:51 PM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Sounds to me like an inside job by someone living nearby with civic AUTHORITY.


40 posted on 05/28/2009 2:44:40 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

How did the San Diego County employee know enough about the situation to ask those questions in a private home?

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

41 posted on 05/28/2009 2:48:56 PM PDT by LucyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Had they been hosting a gay orgy, it would not have been a problem.


42 posted on 05/28/2009 2:49:51 PM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: porter_knorr; Iowan; Cicero; Smokin' Joe

Ping to #41.


43 posted on 05/28/2009 2:53:10 PM PDT by LucyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: LucyT

44 posted on 05/28/2009 3:00:31 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

The pastor should simply tell officials this was not a religious service but a weekly wife swapping party and orgy and the problem would have been solved.


45 posted on 05/28/2009 3:04:59 PM PDT by The Great RJ (chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Is San Diego imitating Communist China? That’s what they do with home churches.


46 posted on 05/28/2009 3:16:35 PM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - I Tim 2:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

! ... hahaha


47 posted on 05/28/2009 3:17:06 PM PDT by LucyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

“This will be overturned in court.
We are not that far gone, not yet!”

Yes we are. If the state can bring ludicrous charges, charges that are patently absurd, illegal, stupid and the charges must be answered in court, and the bringer of these charges is not sanctioned in any way, then we ARE the old Soviet Union and we ARE that far gone.


48 posted on 05/28/2009 3:25:28 PM PDT by TalBlack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: azcap

Hear-hear!

Bill of Rights (First Amendment) says: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

That means just what it says:
- NO law respecting an establishment of religion
- NO law prohibiting the free exercise thereof
- NO law abridging the freedom of speech
- NO law abridging the freedom of the press
- NO law abridging the right of the people peaceably to assemble
- NO law abridging the right of the people to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Those things, to the untrained eye, wouldn’t seem to require much interpretation. They certainly don’t seem to equivocate much either, do they?

This is what activist lawyers and judges have done to us. It’s time to remind them who’s in charge.


49 posted on 05/28/2009 3:48:19 PM PDT by seanmerc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: seanmerc
- NO law respecting an establishment of religion

The county regs were passed by Congress? When written, the First Amendment very clearly did not apply to states (some of which had official state religions). While the Fourteenth Amendment should restrict the actions of states, it's unclear what exactly the restrictions are. I think the actions of the county in this case would seem to be grossly out of bounds, but the First Amendment is not as absolute with regard to states as it is with regard to the federal government.

50 posted on 05/28/2009 4:01:47 PM PDT by supercat (Barry Soetoro == Bravo Sierra)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-91 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson