Skip to comments.Democrats wait for tragedy to enact weapon legislation
Posted on 05/29/2009 9:59:05 PM PDT by Danae
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Yeah I just get pissed when I read this type of stuff on FR.....it should be reserved to prison planet of alex jones fame...
I fell for this shit hook, line, and sinker under clintoon for a couple years...then I realised I was an idiot...
I thought I was alone....and the UN would take over anyday...black helecopters and the whole 9 yards...
Then I grew up and understood the scope of what it would take to pull it off...and who would have to willing to help pull it off...
Then I witnessed the soviets try and pull the same shit....and witnessed what happend when they did...
The army deployed...then jumped from their trucks and tanks...and gave the Govt the fat finger...
Well I aint alone...and the UN cant even subdue a munch of starving bastards in somalia.
And if that citizen soldier turns up on my block I’m taking him out some coffee and we can can talk about weapons and how fracked up washington is and who fraked it up....
I STILL support my troops.
You may well be right; then again, you may well be wrong.
To me, the outcome of my “defiance” is irrelevant.
NO MAN will take my guns. NO MAN will keep me from speaking. NO MAN will keep me from worshiping my God according to my understanding. Not so long as I draw breath.
I am not a “tough guy”. But I AM a patriot. I have sworn an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
You, FRiend, on the other hand, seem to be all too willing to bend over to service the traitors that would enslave us all.
“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
But just out of curiosity, what would you do if it was passed?
I mean, who would you raise your gun at first?
Are you going to aim your gun at the Sheriff’s deputy who knocks on your door to take your gun?
So, let’s see, you are in your home and get the news that law enforcement is there to collect your weapons. They have your name and your purchased weapons in their database and since you didn’t show up on “Obama’s Gun Freedom Day” to turn-in your guns they are there in numbers. You had thirty days to turn-in your gun at some convenient, nearby location or face fines, or jail time.
You are already a Criminal, Crim.
Now, these Sheriff’s deputies have families and are determined to go home tonight. They don’t agree with the new law but they aren’t willing to dodge your bullets for it.
I know this is but one hypothetical scenario out of many—humor me.
I’m looking forward to your reply.
Allright. You’ve cussed me before but thats OK. I’ve been around awhile and worked for DOD for 14 years in an active tactical environment. (that ended in 1997) I have a strong opinion on many subjects. Gun Rights must be handled in a judicial way. If the justices turn then organization is required.
>Iraq is the size of Ohio.
Isn’t it closer to the size of CA or NM?
Sounds like they stayed home
I never claimed there WOULD be an uprising...
I said they can pass whatever laws they want....they WONT be able to go around and take every-ones guns without a SERIOUS fight...
WHO is going to do the confiscating?
I live in a town with 350,000 people and 500 cops....
On average...half the homes in town have guns in them...legal or not...
So we are at 175,000 vs 600...
Size and scope man....size and scope...
All this is based first on the premis that they would have the balls to ban anything...and then have the balls to come and get them...and the means...and the troops to enforce it...
It's a fantasy.
Gun bans would be political suicide of the highest order.
This aint england or Oz.
WTF would they have to do with S central LA?...just carpet bomb it?
And in case you didnt notice...during WW2...MOST of our guys werent even HERE...he was talking pure civilians, women and children and old folks and a handful of men.
Have you ever read about the battle of athens tenn circ 1947?
You think vets and current GI’s are just going to roll over and suck the teet of a tyrannical master?
You think active citizen soldiers are gonna follow such orders?...to gun down Their fellow Americans?
REALLY??? I dont...I know to many of them to believe that for a second.
And I'm not going to stand silent while you and others peddle this bullshit on my beloved FREE REPUBLIC.
I still support my troops.
I still dont wear a seat belt when I dont feel like it...and I dont drive the speed limit when I dont feel like it...I still smoke pot when I feel like it...I carry a gun anywhere I damn well please (except the court house) and did long before Ohio had CCW....they can pass any damn law they want...they will still have to enforce it.
My point was that they aren’t going to mess around with Crim and his gun-waiving. If they get a clear shot they’re going to take it and go home for dinner with wifey and the kids.
Sheriff’s deputy thinks: “Too bad, but I didnt’ make the damn law. I’m not going to lose my career by refusing to enforce the law, or get killed because he couldn’t follow the rules.”
This is so predictable.
My overall point is that the time to resist (non-violently) is right now. It’s too late after the law has passed.
These tough guys are going to suffer great disillusionment when the day comes and NO ONE shows up for their “war”.
It ain’t happenin’.
Your problem is that you're thinking rationally rather than emotionally like most people apparently do. It's not the crime, it's the propaganda that people respond to - frightened people who have lost the ability to think rationally will accede to anything.
It’s a matter of organization and that is quashed pretty early. My mention of the militia factions of the early 90’s shows that. I will say that if I personaly am attacked for no reason, I will defend myself to the death.
WTF are they gonna do with 85 million assholes with over 200 million weapons to hand out?
They wouldnt be able to hold new york or LA without being willing to shoot the frak out of everything...and I mean EVERYTHING....
I've been laying out the same logic on this forum for months. You'd be surprised how many people don't see the simple math in this.
The truth is, if even 1/100th of the gun owning American public decided that they'd had enough, and were going to depose the Socialist traitors in Washington, it would go down without so much as the slightest resistance from the gov't.
These types of scenarios have happened again and again throughout world history, yet Americans just do not believe that it can happen here.
A goodly number don't even believe that the American people will stand up and fight if pushed to the brink. I've seen so many posts here, claiming that "YOU WILL roll over and turn in your guns when the goon squads arrive", that it makes me want to puke.
Nothing could be further from the truth. If that were the case, it would have happened a long time ago.
“never go off half cocked, when fully cocked is the way to go”
You and quote me on that....I said it ...
BTW...this is one of the issues I have with unmanned combat vehicles...a machine will follow any orders..a FREE man can think for himself.
I’m sure when I was cussing you...it’s was something I was passionate about...so I cant say I’m sorry...I call em as I see em...
I remember going toe to toe with you before...but the issue escapes me...it’s been a while for sure...
I still believe that what will keep politicians in check is craven fear and the knowledge the military wont back them up.
I call em as I see em.
A gun ban will happen in the US—inevitable.
Crim thinks they are afraid of him and that’s why they haven’t done it yet.
It’s much more an election problem than a Crim problem, believe me.
Well, it’s not going to happen overnight. If democrats bring it up they lose. That is why Obama brought the lady to the court. If they come to my house to take my weapons I will barricade and fire. It’s bullshit. I do not desire to live in a Country that completely controls me. :)
Comparing Americans to Brits and Aussies doesn’t work. We have very different histories and cultures.
Americans will never accept a gun ban because it’s written into our Bill of Rights, and our gun owning tradition goes back far before the American Revolution. Americans’ perception of our right to keep and bear arms is ingrained in our DNA at this point.
Would-be tyrants realized long ago that you couldn’t conquer America through force of arms. It is the whole reason for the slow and gradual slide downhill in this country. Defeating a free people can only be done through stealth and deceit; and from within - not from without.
This is exactly what we have been witnessing for the last century here.
Nothing’s changed. “They’re” never going to come for your guns, because it’s the surest way to make you revolt. That’s not what they want. The intent of the tyrants is to win you over, and to recruit you (and your guns) for their cause.
Ive already had this argument with select FReepers at least ten times.
YOU aint gonna do s*** if they ban them.
I’ll flat out call your statement BULLSH*T! Wait and see. If people don’t want to resist, they will hide them. They aren’t giving up their guns, PERIOD! So you keep on dreaming that dream of yours, it’s NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
“shall not be infringed...”
I’m with you there. But we’ll have to agree to disagree about what happens post-ban.
I think that slow-rot you speak of has already done more damage than you can imagine.
Look at what they have accomplished in four short months.
It just falls faster from here.
If they continue on this path we won’t be fighting for our guns but desperately seeking to trade them for some food.
Oh? So, what's the plan?
You've obviously got this all figured out, so why not share Boucheau's Ultimate Solution with us?
Or, are you a surrender fanatic? I think you are. You seem to have very little faith or understanding of what beats in the American patriot heart.
“You seem to have very little faith or understanding of what beats in the American patriot heart.”
Oh, I’m a patriot alright. Just not a patriotic bromide.
No, I’m a fighter. Just not suicidal.
“You’ve obviously got this all figured out...”
No, never said that. Just giving my opinion. You’re free to ignore it.
Al Qeada cant storm washington and line the streets with corpses hanging from light poles.
Right on, Crim. I don't know how many times I've had to point out this same logic to people on this very forum.
We The People could force the resignations of Obama and every stinking corpse of a Socialist Democrat this weekend, if enough of us showed up armed, on Capitol Hill.
The real power in America has always been vested in The People. Too many of us (like our FRiend) have been convinced of the omnipotent power of the state, which is a Total Lie.
The election of Obama is responsible for gun sales that equal the Chinese and Indian Armies combined. The forums such as these are a very low percentage of who is keeping up with current events.
You are correct that iraq is bigger than Ohio...4 times in fact...with only just over twice the population...I’m speaking figurativley..
Iraq 169,235 SQ miles..most of it desert
Ohio 44,828 sq miles...most of it inhabited
Alaska 656,425 square miles
Texas 268,601 square miles
California 163,707 square miles
Montana 147,046 square miles
New Mexico 121,593 square miles
Arizona 114,006 square miles
Nevada 110,567 square miles
Colorado 104,100 square miles
Oregon 98,386 square miles
Wyoming 97,818 square miles
United States total area: 3,537,441 square miles.
New York 18,976,457
New Jersey 8,414,350
North Carolina 8,049,313
South Carolina 4,012,012
New Mexico 1,819,046
West Virginia 1,808,344
New Hampshire 1,235,786
Rhode Island 1,048,319
South Dakota 754,844
North Dakota 642,200
District of Columbia 572,059
Estimated number of “committed” insurgents in 2005
“5,000 to 7,000”
Ok...so Iraq is closer to the size of CA and bit smaller that Texas...still of the estimated some 20,000 insurgents at peak..only 5ooo to 7ooo where “committed”
Iraq is about the same as texas in size and population..
I bet there are a hell of a lot more committed gun owners in texas alone,than 5000 to 7000 people out of 21 million.
Then what the hell are they going to do with the rest of the country while they try and subdue texas?
Assuming the entire military engages and doesnt actualy break to stand WITH texas?
Also assuming the texas nation gaurd would stand down...which they wouldnt I’m pretty damn sure...
Also assuming the US military would even be willing to go shoot the frak out of Texas...
Size and scope.
Sure it makes for a good movie script or a novel...but another american civil war is pretty much beyond reality...
And that’s would it would take to subdue America..
Wholesale slaughter and outright heavy warfare.
Not gonna happen....not from OUR guys...
“...have been convinced of the omnipotent power of the state...”
What, are we going to start twisting comments, reorganizing sentences, taking things out of context, and basically argue like a bunch of left-wing a-holes now?
Yes, Windflier, that’s EXACTLY what I said...dolt!
Some of your points are valid, albeit you are trying to equate
your personal reactions to a gun ban with those of most Americans. This is fallacy. Would you shoot the sheriff?
Many of us would fight back, and here is why. A gun ban, to be legal, would require an amendment to the constitution, this would be almost impossible. A gun ban by fiat or presidential order would be unconstitutional and thus illegal, so the enforcement of such a ban would be illegal, negating the right of law enforcement and military, who are sworn to uphold the constitution, to enforce an illegal ban.This would be a fight for the very constitutional soul of our nation. Being involved most of my adult life in the military and law enforcement, I know my opinions are shared by many law enforcement and military. Reaction may be slow at first, but will organize and grow rapidly. Have more faith in us brother, we are not all sheepole.
No it won't, I know them. :^) (Good Work)
And, what makes you think that Crim would be alone in that scenario?
Barney Fife is going to have to have a "clear shot" on thousands before he gets to go home to wifey.
Scale and numbers, man. Scale and numbers.
Even if every single LEO and military service member were to agree to, and obey an order to impose martial law and a gun confiscation, you're still looking at maybe 1 to 2 million against an estimated 85 million.
If only one in ten Americans chose to resist, you're still looking at close to 10 to 1 odds against a successful suppression of the people.
The truth is that nowhere close to a majority of LEOs or active military personnel would even obey such an order. The fight would begin and end with a massive mutiny in the ranks.
No. Americans will have to be convinced to willingly roll over for and accept tyranny. It cannot be accomplished through force.
No, we're not. I've read all of your posts on this thread, and you submit that Americans will surrender to gov't authority and turn in their guns if a gun ban is passed.
It's clear by your statements thus far, that you believe in the omnipotency of the state, or at least you believe the American people (including everyone reading here) believe that.
I was just looking for that quote, very interesting too considering the dynamics are changed since the LEO and military personnel that would be involved in the round up would actually have ties to the “subjected.” The Soviets would have had no qualms about going at it had not the fear been there. Yet in this situation those involved in the roundup would have the fear of the unknown and the personal ties.
The entire senario counts on the backing of the entire US military,police, and NG combined....even if they could recall every troop from around the world.
The willingness to ignore their sworn oaths, and the willingness to unleash wholesale warfare upon their own country...not a likely senario...highly unlikely in fact..
I’m way more concered about local rioting than I would ever be about the troops going along with that type of senario...
And if riots where to break out nationwide in major cities...”The people” will be welcoming those troops with open arms...Posse Comitatus be damned...
And I would standing shoulder to shoulder with my local cops....as many citizens would.
But if the LA riots are any example...you can count on being pretty much on your own for a couple days at least...
Being a responsible parent..I bought rural propety long ago and have a plan to be out of town in hours if need be...
I even own a vehicle that will still run after an EMP wave with a full tank of gas at all times...
There is a difference between vigilance,preparedness and paranoia...
I consider it no different than being prepared for a house fire...having had one that I was able to put out before the fire dept arrived...
My duty as a father, husband, and citizen is to at least consider the worst case senario and be prepared for it...
Just cuz I’m ready for it doesnt mean I want it to happen.
But even with that you have to counter balance likely senarios vs unlikely senarios vs highly unlikely senarios..
Is an EMP wave a likely senario?
but in the highly unlikely event that NK sets one of in orbit or some frickin terrorist sets one off via a nuke that doesnt take me out...I dont want to have to walk out of town...becuase town will be a very bad place to be in short order...people used to being cared for by the govt will soon turn on anyone in order to survive...
I carry a deadly weapon in the hopes I will never have to use it...and I teach others in that same hope...
But if they have to...I want them to stand a chance...
Excuse the digression.
“Some of your points are valid, albeit you are trying to equate your personal reactions to a gun ban with those of most Americans.”
No, this is not introspection, or projection. This is my THEORY regarding a HYPOTHETICAL.
“Many of us would fight back, and here is why. A gun ban, to be legal, would require an amendment to the constitution, this would be almost impossible.”
I don’t know how any reasonable American could look back over the last ten years and say ANYTHING is impossible.
“A gun ban by fiat or presidential order would be unconstitutional and thus illegal, so the enforcement of such a ban would be illegal, negating the right of law enforcement and military, who are sworn to uphold the constitution, to enforce an illegal ban.This would be a fight for the very constitutional soul of our nation.”
Agree completely—still wouldn’t surprise me if it happened. In fact, I believe it’s inevitable.
“Being involved most of my adult life in the military and law enforcement...”
Thank you for your service and your reasoned response.
“I know my opinions are shared by many law enforcement and military. Reaction may be slow at first, but will organize and grow rapidly.”
The key there is “many”. I have a few buds that are cops and I hear tell the younger crop of cops is a quite a bit more big-government friendly. I also hear tell that the number of cops that would provide outright resistance to a gun-ban is dwindling. Affirmative action and blue cities having much to do with the weighting of the numbers, to be certain.
“Have more faith in us brother, we are not all sheepole.”
Well, I got to tell you that I’m strugglin with this one. It’s really getting tough to keep the “faith” while taking in the lay of the land, lately.
I am very let down by the lack of resistance to all that is being thrown down at Americans.
Make no mistake, I love this country and all good Americans. My heart is breaking a little, though. I’ve gone from rage, to denial, back to rage, then to numbness and now it’s almost like the beginnings of accepting the fact that someone you love dearly is gonna die.
Melodramatic, I know. But I’ve always, regularly, actively cherished the idea and fact that I was an American. I LOVE being free.
I have two children, and another on the way. Talk about a whirlwind of emotions when I contemplate their future.
Anyway, best of luck, FRiend.
“Melodramatic, I know. But Ive always, regularly, actively cherished the idea and fact that I was an American. I LOVE being free.”
Brother you are in the freest country in the world. I have been all over the world and live in foreign countries with the military, did 2 tours in A-Stan, believe me, in spite of all our troubles, we are still the freest nation.
The silent majority will awaken and be heard from. Most are too responsible raising their families and working to be out there getting loud, thus far. There are indications the tide is starting to turn, there is a lot of buyers remorse with obama. Tea parties are just a start, the blogosphere and talk radio is stronger than ever, we are still a majority conservative nation, but i digress, we are still too complacent. I have faith, this is not the first challenge to our nation and it won’t be the last, we will survive, there will be an awakening.
It will happen in 2013 if Obama gets re-elected.
Franklin said, we have a republic, if we can keep it. This is what he meant. We slipped a bit, we got complacent really. Complacancy will KILL you , and for damn sure it’s gotten us to where we are. This issue will raise more national hackles and literally have people marching en-mass to DC. The Dims know that, thats why they are waiting for some complete Fu#$o to go postal and they will seize on the issue.
What matters right now is that we KNOW what they are doing. We have time to COUNTER it before they can wind up their spin machine. And that will come from publicly FLAYING them for allowing legislation like HR45 to just hang out in Feinstein’s subcommittee like some kind of massive rotten turd inside a dead whale about to explode!
We have an opportunity to expose them if we can get it to the right people in the press to HARP on it. There are ways to preempt this kind of crap, but you have to know what you are doing.
Someone page Karl Rove eh?
“The Soviets would have had no qualms about going at it had not the fear been there.”
Uhm...the Hardline soviets DID go at it...
I have vastly oversimplified the events..and I’m sure there are better sources..
Bottom line...most of the troops and generals gave the KGB hardliners the finger and sided with the people and Gorbachev...the hardline coup failed within three days.
My fault, I meant of them attacking us.
That’s nothing but true man
Oh...duh...it’s getting late....and I have no latte..
Oh I’m sure they considered a first strike at some point...
But the russians werent religious fanatics like the 12th Imam cultists trying to get nukes now...
They do us in a heartbeat if they had the means...
On that note...goodnight...better get to bed before the wife wakes up....if you never see me again...it’s becuase she killed me for staying up all night on FR...
Ditto! There are many others who will defend the right to bear arms with their lives .
Elected officials (I refuse to call them leaders) are sworn to uphold the Constitution.
It is time to require all elected officials with Constitutional duties to so fear violating that oath that they refuse to do so.
Any legislative or policy position that encroaches on any of the Bill of Rights or seeks to place limitations on US citizens must be considered un-American, Anti-Constitutional, and thus, treason.
In other words, messing with the Bill of Rights is a violation of the oath of office and capital treason.
Nationally treat like such and lets see what happens.
If the day comes eyedigress will be doing what we all will. Trying to survive minute by minute. If the day comes I think that is what will bring us victory. I have said many times before bacteria don't organize, they don't communicate. They don't plan they don't "equip". Yet in the millions their each insignificant contribution all directed at the same purpose individually can kill a man. Pneumonia, kidney infection, menningitis.
Gun owners like us, we are getting ready for the "Long Wait". We are spores. We maintian our tools and we teach our children our values and how to use our tools. If necessary they will wait. Zero is so happy with the result of his 30 years of applying Alinsky to our society. We are ALinsky on steroids and amphetamine. We are Alinsky with guns. I don't think anyone fully understands this, not even us. We are like the Terminator in the sense that we never sleep, we never stop, we can't be changed, and we won't go away.
We watch the "tripwire". I saw a short movie by Walt Disney years ago where he was explaining a chain reaction. He had a large room covered with mousetraps that were each loaded with two ping pong balls. He tossed one "insignificant" ball into that room. In seconds there were balls flying everywhere.
One may consider that there are only a handfull of assholes like us that think this way and we are insignificant. If that is true on the day when Zero or anyone else "throws a ball into this room" we will see. If we are really insignificant in numbers eyedigress will be correct. We will be crushed without mercy and that will be that. In Nazi Germany there was a group known as "White Rose". Even so we will not have to endure what follows if it does happen that way. Jesus said, "If you take the sword you will die by the sword." Fine. Please notice he did NOT say "Don't take the sword" and in fact said "If you don't have a sword, buy one."
I suspect that with 80 million gun owners more than an insignificant number understand everything I have posted above. They comprehend the situation, the gravity, and the time. Is there anyone on the "other side" who wants to "throw the ball into this room"? That is THE question and my answer to anyone over there that wants to try comes from CLint Eastwood. "Do you feel lucky?" If so...
“These are not your run-of-the-mill liberals. These are communists.
This is but the quiet before the storm.
They WILL NOT wait for the people to vote away their power in 2010it aint happening that way, folks.”
I hope your prediction is wrong, but I share your fear. It is hard to imagine that they (Democrats) would run so fast and so tirelessly in one direction (Socialism), with the knowledge that, now exposed, they risk losing momentum and Power in 2010. Seems like they need to fuel a larger “crisis” to remain in power, perhaps indefinitely!
I wonder if those who thought 9/11 was an inside job would feel the same about any such incident that led to the banning of firearms.
That is what the Obama Security force would be used for. There would also be some Nazi like Fed LEO who would love a chance to show everyone how much power they have.
Sadly, I am in complete agreement. The folks here who are hooting at you may indeed be the few and the brave, and then they will be among the buried and forgotten in the land of the sheeple. With proper preparation, softening of the victims, a gun ban will get 95% compliance. Another 4.999% will need to have their taxes examined, their children removed to foster care, their assets seized over trumped up charges they can't afford to fight indefinitely, and their heels cooled in court; but in the end only a handful of them will actually live the "Molon Labe" dream, or cause a twinge to the conscience of a National Guardsman or a neighborhood cop, or check out in a cinematic blaze of glory ("Top o' the world, Ma!")
In fact, most police forces today, never mind most military forces, can remove would-be glory blazers as easily as a walk-in clinic medical assistant spritzing out a stubborn plug of ear wax.
You brave iron men who claim to be more stubborn than that, who now sit at your keyboards unsuspected of such grit -- I am proud to be in your company, to share the same internet forum with you. I salute you and all your rippling muscles. But you're going to be annihilated, all the same.
It will not be a citizen soldier. It will be Obama's National Police Force. His Nazi brown shirts. And more likely his ACORN organization that he funded with 3.6 billion dollars of stimulus funds.
Indeed, it's long past due. That it has not happened, tells you all you need to know. No uprising after Roe, none after Kelo, and Barack 0bama is in the White House looting the national economy. Duly elected. But we'll fight when they come for our guns, you betcha! Right there on our doorsteps we're gonna dig in.
Clue: When they get to your doorstep, you won't be there. You'll be at work, or in jail, or on the run. You won't even be dyeing your hair in some dreary mot_l on the strip, because you can't get your card away from the ATM that just ate it under orders from your bank under orders from the gubmint.
Fact: A ****ing dogcatcher is overqualified to pick up most citizens.
The Australian and the Brit gun-owners are not American Gun Owners... and that does make a difference.
Of course they are! Its their only means of abolishing the second amendment.
Why not amplify your power with millions of other like minded citizens...