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Bobby Schindler: The Presidentís Torturous Dilemma
Townhall ^ | 5/31/09 | Bobby Schindler

Posted on 05/31/2009 9:33:51 AM PDT by wagglebee

click here to read article


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To: wagglebee

65 years of age and up: death sentence = rationed care.


51 posted on 06/08/2009 5:38:09 AM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's White House: Where men look like women & women look like men.)
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To: wagglebee

bttt


52 posted on 06/08/2009 5:38:37 AM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's White House: Where men look like women & women look like men.)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

Australia has futile care policies. It’s not about treatment. It’s about depopulation. It’s no surprise the green movement is for euthanasia. They like trees way more than the human race.


53 posted on 06/08/2009 5:40:43 AM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's White House: Where men look like women & women look like men.)
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To: Lesforlife

I misunderstood, and thanks for clarifying.

When will this evil of abortion end?

At least, according to polls, more people are becoming prolife.


54 posted on 06/08/2009 1:36:13 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Baladas; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
Some good news.

Thread by Baladas.

Tiller Clinic To Close Permanently

The family of Dr. George Tiller announced today that effective immediately, Women's Health Care Services, Inc., will be permanently closed. Notice is being given today to all concerned that the Tiller family is ceasing operation of the clinic and any involvement by family members in any other similar clinic. . .

55 posted on 06/09/2009 4:00:47 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: pissant; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
A baby butcher pal of Tiller the Killer's compares his death to Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. Alveda King made an excellent response.

Threads by pissant and me.

Abortion doctor likens Tiller's killing to MLK's

Dr. LeRoy Carhart, one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions, called on the federal government to treat as hate crimes all activities by "anti-choice domestic terrorists," compared the slain Dr. George Tiller to Martin Luther King and said planting crosses was equivalent to actions by the Ku Klux Klan.

"This is the equivalent of Martin Luther King being assassinated," Dr. Carhart said of the May 31 slaying of one of America's best-known late-term abortion providers. "This is the equivalent of Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania and any other major historic event where we've tolerated the intolerable for too long."

. . .

______________________________________________________________

Dr. Alveda King Calls Comparison of Tiller to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 'Offensive Beyond Belief'

ATLANTA, June 9 /Christian Newswire/ -- Dr. Alveda King, Pastoral Associate of Priests for Life and niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., today reacted to remarks by late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart that compared the killing of George Tiller to the assassination of her uncle.

"For LeRoy Carhart to mention the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who worked through peaceful and non-violent means, in the same breath with that of George Tiller, whose work ended peace and brought violence to babies in the womb, is offensive beyond belief," said Dr. King. "The analogy is just wrong."

"Dr. Carhart also speaks of hate crimes," added Dr. King. "I would simply ask him, is it not hateful to regard an entire class of people as non-human because they're unwanted?"

Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life, also commented, "The message of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was that every human being has equal dignity. LeRoy Carhart and every other abortionist violate that message every time they dismember a baby. The comparison is ridiculous."

56 posted on 06/09/2009 4:06:48 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
A brief by Sotomayor has surfaced where she affirms the "right" of abortion, especially for "women of color".

Thread by me.

Brief Linked to Sotomayor Endorses "Fundamental Right" to Abortion

WASHINGTON, D.C., June 8, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - More light has been shed on the pro-abortion leanings of Supreme Court hopeful Sonia Sotomayor after news erupted of a brief Sotomayor apparently endorsed that urged the Supreme Court to uphold the "right" to abortion.

The amicus curiae brief, reported late last month by U.S. News and World Report's Bonnie Erbe, addressed the Supreme Court concerning the 1989 case Webster v. Reproductive Health Services. The case involved a complaint by various Missouri abortion providers against a state law defining conception as the beginning of life and disallowing public facilities to be used for abortions. The Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund (PRLDEF), on whose Board of Directors Sonia Sotomayor served at the time, was among the many pro-abortion interest groups that signed the brief.

In summarizing the interests of the petitioning parties, the brief states: "All Amici share an urgent concern that the Court clearly and unequivocally reaffirm Roe v. Wade.... They fear that any tampering with the right to abortion recognized in Roe will have a powerful, adverse impact on the liberty, equality and health of poor women and women of color."

The brief also argues that laws requiring abortions to be performed in hospitals would place undue burden on minority and low-income women seeking abortions. . .

57 posted on 06/09/2009 4:13:07 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Ken Connor has written an excellent essay on the dangers of assisted suicide.

Thread by me.

Ken Connor: Expansion of Assisted Suicide to Washington Targets Elderly, Disabled With Death

Last week in Washington state a 66-year-old woman with terminal cancer made history as the first person to undergo physician-assisted suicide since that state legalized the practice in November of 2008.

Proponents of legalized suicide celebrated Washington's approval of this policy as a victory for the "death with dignity" movement. These suicide advocates, in keeping with the rhetorical tactic of their ideological cousins in the pro-abortion movement, equate "dignity" with "choice." Unfortunately, as with the abortion debate, the "choice" rhetoric of the right-to-die movement eclipses critical moral and ethical questions which ought to be at the forefront of the debate.

Is suicide really a way to honor life and preserve dignity? What are the social and cultural implications of normalizing the "right to die?" Will voluntary physician-assisted suicide give way to involuntary physician-assisted suicide where doctors decide whether their patients would be better off dead? Will the "right" to suicide be transmogrified into a "duty" to commit suicide? Will the elderly who consume more than they produce be deemed "resource hogs" that have a duty to die and get out of the way?

In an age of scarce economic resources, will the critically ill or the handicapped or the demented be viewed as expendable by their younger, healthier counterparts? How will the medical profession be transformed if those who are trained to cure are given a license to kill? These and many other questions should be asked and answered before we decide it's okay to encourage terminally-ill persons to choose self-destruction in the name of dignity.

But we won't get answers if we allow this debate to be defined solely in terms of the euphemistic "right to choose." Indeed, these questions won't even be asked.

Dying with dignity does not require suicide. The question, "Do you want to suffer and die or die with dignity?" presents a false choice and assumes that there are only two alternatives at the end of life—pain or death. Properly employed, modern medicine has the tools to mitigate pain. Hospice care, for example, employs a multi-disciplinary approach to ensure that terminally-ill patients endure their final time on earth with dignity—free from pain and nourished physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

Hospice care does not seek to stop the dying process. The goal of hospice care is to make a difficult time as comfortable and peaceful as possible for both the patient and their loved ones. The important distinction between palliative care and physician-assisted suicide is that the first respects the inviolability of human life in spite of the difficulties presented by illness while the second rejects the sanctity of life in favor of an expedient escape from pain and fear. . .

58 posted on 06/09/2009 4:15:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

well there goes Rush Limbaugh’s tacit support for the bigot.


59 posted on 06/09/2009 4:17:51 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: markomalley; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
ANY pastor who ignores ongoing mortal sin is failing his congregation.

Thread by markomalley.

Tiller’s missing excommunication (LCMS)

Last Sunday, late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down in the foyer of his Lutheran church, where he served as an usher. As anyone with even a cursory understanding of Lutheranism in America could surmise, that church was a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Of the various Lutheran church bodies in America, the ELCA is the most mainline and has the most supportive position on legalized abortion.

As soon as the terrible news about Tiller’s murder hit the wire, many bloggers and liberal pundits noted that Tiller’s active church membership was at odds with the stereotype of how abortion and religion are related. It didn’t take long for that same meme to make it to the mainstream media stories.

What none of these stories have explained is that Tiller had previously been excommunicated by a Lutheran congregation on account of his lack of repentance about and refusal to stop his occupation. That Lutheran congregation was a member of my church body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. Excommunication doesn’t happen terribly frequently in this day and age but it’s not unheard of. I don’t know any of the specifics about his past congregation or what led to the discipline and anticipated learning more about it when it was covered by the mainstream media. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened.

When the news broke, I had many people who know that I’m Lutheran ask how it was possible that his church had not disciplined him or otherwise encouraged him to stop performing abortions. I had hoped that there would be stories exploring Tiller’s religious beliefs and church membership and that the stories would explain the difference between the ELCA and the LCMS. There is obviously quite a difference between a church body that would discipline a practicing abortion doctor and one that would welcome him in membership. . .

60 posted on 06/09/2009 4:19:57 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: madprof98; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
Very few people are as misinformed and delusional as this young woman.

Thread by madprof98.

Why I plan to emulate Dr. George Tiller [not kidding]

If I’d passed her on the street, I probably wouldn’t have known her. Her gait is a bit stiff and her left eye somehow different from her right. She’s not famous, exactly, but some people might know her name: Emily Lyons. She’s the nurse who survived the 1998 bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham at the hands of Eric Rudolph.

I was 14 years old when that clinic was bombed, killing a police officer and spraying Emily’s body full of hot nails and shrapnel. Back then, I lived in a small Alabama town, went to church every Sunday and was adamantly opposed to abortion. But by the time I met Emily last year, I was president of the Birmingham chapter of Medical Students for Choice, a group supporting abortion rights. Watching her walk slowly into our fund-raiser on her husband’s arm —- a woman who’d endured more than 18 operations —- I thought of all she’d been through and knew that I’d come to the right decision in my support of reproductive rights.

That conviction only became stronger after I read that Kansas physician George Tiller had been murdered at his Wichita church.

I’m a third-year medical student at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. I plan to become an obstetrician-gynecologist. I dream of delivering healthy babies, working with families and supporting midwifery. But as part of my practice, I also envision providing abortions to women who need them.

The road I took to get here isn’t your stereotypical one. My parents are conservative Christians who believe abortion is wrong. Growing up, I naturally shared their view. But I’ve also wanted to be a doctor since I was 4 years old, and in high school, I began to feel drawn to issues of women’s health. In college, I designed my own major to broaden my understanding of women’s health by including psychology, sociology and women’s studies.

I also served as a counselor for a volunteer organization that helps victims of rape. I sat in hospital rooms with young women who would look at me and say, “I just couldn’t carry his baby.” I could feel their desperation.

At the same time, I found myself shocked at how little many of my friends —- women who were studying biology and planning to become doctors —- knew about their own sexual health. They didn’t know about or couldn’t get the reproductive health care they needed because of barriers put up by their culture, their religion and their parents.

I began to feel as if I were leading a double life. At school, the choices I saw women struggling with were forcing me to question my old convictions. When I went home, I’d go to church with my parents but would find that my views contrasted starkly with those I heard in the sermons. It was a difficult time, because I felt that neither my family nor my church would welcome my questions or understand my struggle.

For the most part, I don’t talk to my parents about those beliefs. They already feel as though I’ve turned my back on much of what they taught me because my husband and I bought a house and lived together for a few months before we were married. Two and a half years later, that rift isn’t fully healed. I know that my views on reproductive rights would be another blow.

But ultimately, we have more in common than they might think. I agree that ending an unwanted pregnancy is a tragedy. When I advocate for reproductive rights, for choice, I don’t claim that abortion is morally acceptable. I think that it’s a very private, intensely personal decision. But I was stunned when one of my professors, a pathologist and a Planned Parenthood supporter, told me that decades ago, entire wings of the university’s hospital were filled with women dying from infections caused by botched abortions. It’s clear that women who don’t want to be pregnant won’t be deterred by limited access to providers or to clinics. And I believe that it’s immoral to let them die rather than provide them with safe, competent care.

I still have a long way to go in my medical training. I’ve never witnessed an actual abortion procedure, though I have been trained, through my work in Medical Students for Choice, in manual vacuum aspiration, a simple procedure used for both incomplete miscarriages and elective terminations in the first trimester. I plan to choose a residency program that provides further training —- a place where I won’t worry that asking to be taught to perform an abortion could somehow limit my future options. At the start of medical school, I was very careful about how I presented my views to the faculty for fear that I could jeopardize my grades or hurt my chances for recommendations or of being accepted into a program run by any of the professors. . .

61 posted on 06/09/2009 5:50:19 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


62 posted on 06/09/2009 9:13:21 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee
Tiller’s missing excommunication (LCMS)

Very interesting.

63 posted on 06/10/2009 9:30:02 AM PDT by syriacus (Justice is blind, so Justice Sonia Sotomayor will use her Spidey-sense to decide how to rule.)
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To: theruleshavechanged
Tiller's abortuary would make a wonderful monument to the American Holocaust.

Thread by theruleshavechanged.

Operation Rescue interested in buying now-closed Tiller clinic

Operation Rescue President Troy Newman said he would love to make an offer for the property and that his group had discussed the idea.

Newman's group bought another former abortion clinic in Wichita in 2006 for its headquarters. Newman said Operation Rescue could use more space. . .

64 posted on 06/10/2009 4:28:35 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
It seems that Sotomayor is just as comfortable with killing the elderly and disabled as she is with infanticide as long as the doctors "pitch it" the right way.

Thread by me.

New Video Surfaces Showing Sonia Sotomayor Discussing Assisted Suicide Issues

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A new video has surfaced showing Supreme Court candidate Sonia Sotomayor participating in a September 2000 panel discussion of end-of-life issues. As has been the case with abortion, the video doesn't appear to allow an easy discernment of where she stands on assisted suicide or euthanasia.

CBN News White House correspondent David Brody has obtained the video footage, which comes from a Federal Bar Council Inns of Court panel discussion with what appear to be other judges and attorneys.

The clips show Sotomayor and the others discussing patient rights and a hypothetical case of a patient who is near death and the kinds of decisions that can be made.

Sotomayor says patients may make their own medical decisions but appears to believe that physicians can hold significant sway with their influence.

"Ultimately the law says the choice is the patient's. My own feeling the reality is it's what the doctor's pitch is," she says. . .

"We will not be silent.
We are your bad conscience.
The White Rose will give you no rest."

65 posted on 06/10/2009 4:32:05 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
The concept of decency is totally foreign to the culture of death.

Thread by me.

Free Abortions in Honor of Tiller Denounced as 'Sick'

PHILADELPHIA, June 10, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Operation Rescue said today that it is appalled to learn that Philadelphia Women's Center gave away free abortions on Tuesday as a means of "honoring" slain late-term abortionist George Tiller.

"There seems to be no comprehension of the value of human life with these people. Killing babies for free to honor someone who was murdered can only be described as sick," said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman.

The abortion facility told the media that an unspecified number of abortions were done free of charge, but there are no further plans to offer additional free abortions.

"There is no such thing as a 'free abortion,'" said Newman. "It costs the life of an innocent baby and puts the woman at risk for increased problems in her life. The loss of each innocent life diminishes us all."

Studies show that women who have received abortions are more at risk for problems such as suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and mental illness.

"If the people running that abortion clinic really wanted to help women, they would follow the Tiller family's example and close their clinic for good," said Newman.

66 posted on 06/10/2009 4:35:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: sionnsar; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
NOTHING is more horrible than the indiscriminate taking of human life.

Thread by sionnsar.

"It Was Horrible, Horrible!" A First-Hand Account of... a[n]... Abortion Clinic [very graphic]

Yeni is a medical assistant and receptionist at the Clínica Médica para la Mujer de Hoy, an abortion clinic in Chula Vista. She's taking care of a customer, a very thin young Mexican, 28 years old, and of disheveled appearance. He's come to get information. He smiles nervously all the while. Yeni deals with him coldly. In Spanish, she greets him, "Hi, good afternoon."

Customer: "Is this where you do abortions?"

Yeni: "Yes."

Customer: "How much does it come out to? She's got about two-and-a half months."

Yeni: "If it hasn't been over three months, the cost is $300. The doctor's not coming in today. He won't be available until Saturday of next week, but what you don't want to happen is for it to go over three months."

Customer: "It's a little over two months."

Yeni: "You can come in a week from this coming Saturday. Come in with the patient and it'll be $300. Do you know her blood type?"

Customer: "No."

Yeni: "No? Well then, if it turns out her blood type is negative, there will be an additional $75 charge. Okay, I'm going to give you a number for you to call in case you want to make the appointment later on since we don't have a doctor right now. But if you want to make the appointment next week, this is the number for the clinic."

Customer: "I can make the appointment by phone?"

Yeni: "Uh-huh. You can make the appointment by phone, but for a week from this Saturday. This coming Saturday you won't be able to do it because we've got a lot of patients."

Customer: "Is it safe?"

Yeni: "It's very safe. It takes five minutes for the termination."

Customer: "Five minutes?"

Yeni: "Five Minutes."

Customer: "Is there any treatment, afterward?"

Yeni: "Yes, she needs to come back in two weeks for a checkup to make sure she's doing okay. We will prescribe medication for pain, and an antibiotic. It's very safe, but she needs to follow the treatment and come back in two weeks, okay?"

Customer: "Yes. Thank you."

Yeni: "Have a nice day."

This young man was her last customer for the day. It's almost dark outside, and the clinic is about to close. Yeni is staying to tidy the reception area. She agrees to an interview next week away from the clinic. What follows is her testimony from that interview.

"I started working at the clinic in 2002. I had just graduated as a medical assistant. I had applied at a lot of places, but I didn't get a job because I didn't have any experience. Then someone told me that Sonia, an acquaintance of mine, needed someone. When I talked to her, she made it clear that it had to do with a clinic where they do abortions, but that they do other things, too. My goal was to gain at least six months' to a year's experience in the medical field. Sonia told me to go to the clinic to try to help out the doctor, and that if I couldn't take it, it was no problem, they would have me do something else. I didn't like the idea, even though having an abortion isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. I myself had an abortion a year before. Sonia had the same thing happen to her, though it wasn't as voluntary as mine. Her parents took her to get the abortion.

"I agreed to try it out," Yeni continued. "The first time I helped the doctor, I almost fainted. I couldn't see, and I couldn't hear. I was overwhelmed by the blood and the girl's screams. They took me out of there and I told Sonia that I couldn't do it, but they advised me to try it once more. By the second abortion I found that I could deal with it. The weeks went by, and even though the job is ugly, I was learning a lot about medicine.

"I made up my mind to withstand the work at the clinic until I got a little experience I could apply somewhere else. Then came the abortions of babies who were five or six months, and it became impossible for me to continue. After three months, I resigned. But the pressure to pay my bills, all my debts, and my situation as a single mother, forced me to go back to work at the clinic.

"To this day, I have left and returned three times," she said, but added, "I myself can't believe that I'm here for the money. That's what is so absurd. I make $8.50 an hour here. But because I wanted a career as a medical assistant, I stayed."

Yeni checked a small notepad where she has made a few notes for the interview. In this little notebook she has written important points she wants to mention, "So," as she put it, "that it can be of use to someone."

She then continued her account. "At first I thought most of the patients would be young, single mothers, but it's not that way. The great majority are married women; say around 29 years-old, the typical woman who doesn't want another child. The ones who are separated, or don't have a man in their life, also come to us. We hardly get really young ones. I think that younger girls appreciate becoming a mother more than the ones who are on their second or third pregnancy.

"We get patients on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. On average, five or six women come in each day. However, since the doctor hasn't been able to come in until tomorrow, which is Saturday, we'll be getting 16 patients," she said.

Yeni then explained what her work entails.

"Basically, what I do is to assist the doctor in the terminations [abortions]. After the patient fills out the forms and waits for her turn, I lead her into the private room where the procedure is carried out. I tell the patient to take her clothes off from the waist down. I tell her where she needs to sit and ask her to wait for the doctor.

"As soon as the doctor arrives, he has her lie down for the ultrasound to see how many months she is pregnant. If the baby is less than three months, the abortion can be done the same day.

"The doctor sits in front of the patient. The patient is lying there conscious — as if she were about to give birth. I hand the doctor the local anesthesia and I hand him the instruments as needed. I am seeing everything.

"Our doctor is quite old. He's 84 and uses an antiquated method." (The doctor to whom Yeni is referring is Dr. Phillip Rand. On Sept. 29, the California Medical Board suspended his license to practice medicine, noting that Rand is "incapable of practicing medicine safely.")

"First he puts the mirror in place. Then he measures the depth of the uterus. Next he opens the neck of the uterus with a dilator to make it easier. Then he introduces a small rod with an abrasive ring at the end. The ring isn't sharp, but the scraping hurts a lot of women and they cry or scream.

"When the baby is less than three months, the baby disintegrates completely. When the doctor feels that the baby has been dislodged completely, he introduces something similar to a straw. The exterior opening of the straw connects to a vacuum. Then he vacuums up everything that has broken apart. All that he vacuums goes into a jar. You see blood, and bits and pieces of tissue that look like chopped meat. It all comes out in pieces.

"This is the procedure for eight weeks or less, " she said. "When they're about 12 weeks, then the doctor takes the baby out with forceps. He takes the baby out in pieces. He checks each part and he places each one in a tray down below. When he finishes the procedure, I have to drain everything. We drain it to separate body parts from blood. We place all the parts in a jar that goes to the laboratory.

"It's impressive how well-defined they are. You can't believe what you are seeing. You see perfect little hands, tinier than those of a Barbie doll. You can see intestines, tiny ribs, their little faces, and their tiny squashed heads. You can distinguish among the parts if the baby was a boy or girl.

"It makes me so sad to see the jars. It's very hard for me to do all this. To see all that falls on the floor, or for example, to remove a tiny foot from the instruments. A girl who worked here told me that she came home with a tiny foot stuck to her uniform, close to her shoulder. She, of course, hadn't noticed until her husband told her."

Yeni continued getting off her chest what happens inside the clinic: "When the patient is less than three months pregnant, we have to prepare her so that she can come back the next day when she is dilated. The really large terminations are impressive. I have seen three fetuses come out whole. In one instance, you could see the little hand coming out of the uterus. The little hand was moving. But the most impressive thing was the baby that came out breathing. That time, the doctor got sick.

"The girl lived in Tijuana. They put dilators in her for two days. The baby was five and a half months. She didn't have a car and came walking to the clinic. Then it seemed like she was going through labor. When the doctor started to work on her, the baby came out without any help. The child came out breathing and died right there. After a minute, he changed color. He turned purple. The assistants felt very bad. They didn't want to put him in the receptacle. The doctor had to do it. All of us were very affected by it.

"Later, I saw the doctor in his office. His gaze was lost and fixed on the wall. Afterward, he was on the phone with someone telling them what had happened."

Yeni pauses. She wants to continue talking, but it's as if she has a lump in her throat. The interview took a bitter and sad turn.

"Since a few days ago," she said, "a substitute doctor has been coming in. He's younger and has a different technique. He doesn't scrape the uterus, he just uses the vacuum. Last Sunday, he couldn't take it any more because we did some rather large terminations — around four months. He used a technique I hadn't seen. He divided the ultrasound screen in two parts and used an apparatus during the entire procedure. Usually, what you see with the ultrasound is the child sucking his finger, or playing, but on this occasion when the doctor began vacuuming, you could see the baby was moving as if he hurt because it was pulling him or tearing something off. It was horrible, horrible.

"During the procedure, I feel as if they were doing it to me. I want it to finish quickly. I don't want to see it, and yet I have to see it. It's as if it were a penance for the abortion I had myself. With every patient I relive the same thing, and I feel the same thing. It's as if they're doing it to me again. It's as if it were so that I never forget, that I never forget what happened. And it hurts. Every day I wake up thinking, 'I have to go work there again.'

"When I started working at the clinic, Sonia and I made up our minds to help people. We were going to try to persuade them not to get an abortion. We often tried to secretly do a good deed. We'd ask the girls, 'Are you sure?' We would tell them to think it over carefully. Sometimes we would tell them it was going to hurt them terribly. We scared them. A few here and there would regret it and not go through with it. We even helped a few of them, who arrived under pressure from their mother or their husband, to escape out the back door.

"But this attitude of helping out was off and on for short periods of time. This is because you see how, when a patient has made up her mind, there's not much you can do. That has discouraged us. What's more, I would tell the ones who got an abortion, 'Be careful; make sure you don't have to go through this again. Look at me; I did it and it has really affected me.' According to me, I was providing them with therapy. That has passed in me. I don't feel sorry for them, as I did at first. Now they make me angry.

"In most of the cases we handle there is no really pressing need. We used to ask them what their situation was, but I don't ask them any more because they're the same dumb responses. I'm angry that they come to get an abortion so unashamed, joking, and laughing. One that was in the reception area told me, clowning around, 'Kick me, why don't you, so it comes out.'

"When I did it [had an abortion], I was totally in shock. I can't justify it, but here I see almost all of them come in as if they were getting a facial. They're very selfish. One 38-year-old woman told me, 'It's either the baby, or it's my daughter's quinceañera (A traditional Mexican debutant party for 15-year-old girls). It's not my daughter's fault that I got pregnant.' Some of them have gotten mad at us because they're seven months pregnant, and we can no longer do it. We have had women who come in as patients and later bring their daughter. We have patients who come back here in three months. There's one patient who has had eight abortions. Even the doctor said the tenth one will be free. Another one came because she was going to get married and wanted the abortion before the honeymoon.

"One woman was afraid and said, 'Oh my God, please don't let it hurt, don't let it hurt.' Sonia answered, 'Ma'am, you leave God out of these things.'

"Others ask, 'How did it come out?', like they want to see it. I don't answer them. I only say to myself 'Don't worry, the baby came out in pieces. What do you want to see? The baby in pieces?' After the abortion, they'll ask, 'Can I go to a party? Can I drink alcohol?'

"I can't help being angry — at the patient, at the doctor, and at myself. It's useless to be here. We aren't doing anything good. I'm very mad at myself. I feel wasted away. I feel as if I'm not the same person."

At another time in her life, Yeni was part of a youth group at a Tijuana parish. Imbedded in her mind are many happy moments, innocent and full of hope. One recent event has made her think long and hard about the meaning of her life.

"Three days after it opened, we went to see Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. Believe me, it was very hard. When we saw how they beat Jesus and the instruments they used, we compared it to the instruments the doctor used. I saw everything we did in the clinic in that movie — so much blood spilled. I couldn't stop crying in the theater. I also saw the devil portrayed as a fetus. I wanted to die. The following day, I told Sonia that we had to stop working at the clinic. She also saw the movie and we remembered that in the picture they said 'He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.' We were very afraid because just a few months before, the manager of the clinic was killed by her husband. We felt something was going to happen to us because of what we were doing", she said.

"Before my abortion, and before working here, I wasn't afraid of death. Whenever I thought of the day God would come for me, even while knowing I have sinned, with all of my sins, I wasn't afraid. Now, I live with that fear. I feel that I don't want to die because I wonder how I would face God if I should see him. I don't have peace.

"Last week, I visited my brother and wanted to hug my nephew. The child was crying almost hysterically. My sister-in-law said the child was scared because he felt I have the devil inside because I kill babies for a living. I was really angry at my sister-in-law, but I felt it was true to some extent."

Yeni wants to leave her present situation and has started to take the first steps.

"A few days ago, I went to see a guy from the church group that I used to go to. He told me that he was happy that I worked for God and that I was doing well. I felt as if I were choking! I told him I worked at something that I had to leave before I can get closer to God again. He told me to talk to a priest, but I'm afraid. I can't see how I can in all conscience walk into a church. I know the trouble that I'm in. I know the situation I'm in, and what it is I need to do.

"I applied for a job where they take care of the elderly in San Diego. I told the woman who interviewed me about the type of work I do at the clinic, and I pleaded with her to help me get out of here. I told her my hope was with this new job. She was very kind, and she said she would do all she can. No matter what happens, if I don't get the job, I'm going to look for a job in whatever I can. It doesn't matter if it's not as a medical assistant. I'm fed up with the situation here.

"Sonia also had an interview somewhere else. It is for a totally different job. She told me that when she was walking back from her interview, she was telling God, 'My dear God, please, you don't want me to return to the clinic. Give me this job. Please give it to me.' She also told me, 'You'll see; they're going to give us those jobs.'

"We're both sick of our jobs, but for one reason or another, we're still here. I agreed to talk to La Cruz because I think it's necessary that people know the horrors that we have experienced here. Both of us feel a great need to do something good to start compensating God for everything we have done in this job."

Yeni said she wanted to make one important comment before concluding the interview:

"I want to add that some religious groups deliver pamphlets to women before they enter the clinic. I've seen that they look at those pamphlets that show the formation of a baby week after week. Some reconsider and leave the clinic. They are few, but sometimes it happens."

Yeni and Sonia left their job at the clinic a week after this interview, which was conducted on September 27, 2004. The woman who was their supervisor is considering resigning, as well. She has told this to the coordinator of one of the two prayer groups that get together in front of the clinic. They continue to pray for the clinic to be closed permanently.

67 posted on 06/10/2009 4:38:21 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


68 posted on 06/10/2009 9:09:29 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Bobby Schindler has blasted the media for their ongoing hatred of Terri.

Thread by me.

Media Crudeness Continues: Terri Schiavo Referred to as “Brain Dead Corpse”

Contact: Bobby Schindler, Terri's Foundation, (727) 490-7603

ST. PETERSBURG, June 10 /- - It is not always clear whether or when Stephen Amidon is speaking in his own crude voice, or if he is regurgitating the prejudice of Charles Pierce in his review of Pierce’s book: Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free.

But what is clear is that families caring for their brain injured loved ones have more compassion and understanding for the disabled than these two authors.

“To refer to my sister, Terri Schiavo, someone with a profound brain injury, as a 'brain dead . . .corpus', is not only patently false but it is vulgar and offensive to her and to all people living with disabilities”, stated Terri’s brother, Bobby Schindler.

Sadly, it is people like Amidon and Pierce that repeatedly write and publish these kinds of articles having no regard for the pain it causes people with disabilities, as well as the parents and families of people who are in these types of brain injured conditions.

“It is no wonder we are seeing a growing acceptance to kill people like Terri because of such shameful displays of intolerance for our most vulnerable and defenseless American citizens”, added Schindler.

(Click here to read Amidon's review...)
 
Terri's Foundation (www.TerrisFight.org) is dedicated to promoting the Culture of Life, embracing the true meaning of compassion by opposing the practice of euthanasia.


69 posted on 06/11/2009 4:14:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I have this strong feeling that felos and michael the monster schiavo, and greer and even ol charlie and the keeper of Woodside are all going to get theirs...and it might already be happening.

I still ache remembering those long days we all prayed and cried out for Terri to receive water and food.

I do not know how her parents or bobby or sister held on. I don't. Our Father must have really tucked them into a very special place.

70 posted on 06/11/2009 4:18:01 PM PDT by Republic (Jedem das Seine)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
This seems a little off-topic, but after thinking about it all day, I was struck with the notion of what true dignity really is.

Thread by Homer_J_Simpson.

GEHRIG OF YANKEES WILL ENTER CLINIC (6/11/39)

Less than two weeks later Lou Gehrig would learn his fate and July 4, 1939 was "Lou Gehrig Appreciation Day" at Yankee Stadium where he gave his farewell speech:

"Fans, for the past two weeks you have been reading about the bad break I got. Yet today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth. I have been in ballparks for seventeen years and have never received anything but kindness and encouragement from you fans.

"Look at these grand men. Which of you wouldn’t consider it the highlight of his career just to associate with them for even one day? Sure, I’m lucky. Who wouldn’t consider it an honor to have known Jacob Ruppert? Also, the builder of baseball’s greatest empire, Ed Barrow? To have spent six years with that wonderful little fellow, Miller Huggins? Then to have spent the next nine years with that outstanding leader, that smart student of psychology, the best manager in baseball today, Joe McCarthy? Sure, I'm lucky.

"When the New York Giants, a team you would give your right arm to beat, and vice versa, sends you a gift — that’s something. When everybody down to the groundskeepers and those boys in white coats remember you with trophies — that’s something. When you have a wonderful mother-in-law who takes sides with you in squabbles with her own daughter — that's something. When you have a father and a mother who work all their lives so that you can have an education and build your body — it's a blessing. When you have a wife who has been a tower of strength and shown more courage than you dreamed existed — that's the finest I know.

"So I close in saying that I might have been given a bad break, but I've got an awful lot to live for. Thank you."

YouTube - Lou Gehrig's Farewell Speech

What struck me today was the total dignity that he maintained as he faced death and never once did ANYONE suggest he would be better off if he was dead.

71 posted on 06/11/2009 4:26:14 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
NYer has posted a great editorial on the culture of death.

The Basement of the Culture of Death

With a pro-abortion president in the White House, new sub-groups in the broader "culture of death" are coming into view. One of them is dark, indeed.

Take two recent events: Dr. George Tiller is compared to Martin Luther King, Jr. The president of Catholics for Choice attacks a political appointee, Alexia Kelley, who defended Obama's abortion record before the nation's Catholic voters.

As head of Catholics in Alliance with the Common Good, Alexia Kelley was second only to Doug Kmiec in making Obama's record on abortion palatable to Catholics. Aren't these two organizations supposed to be on the same side? Why wouldn't Catholics for Choice applaud Ms. Kelley's appointment to the faith-based office of the Department of Health and Human Services?

In previous commentary on this quarrel, I implied that the objection to Kelley was a simple territorial spat. During the presidential election, Kelley's Catholics in Alliance had supplanted Catholics for Choice as the preeminent organization of the Catholic Left. Kelley now stands atop not only the movement pecking order, but also controls $20 million of the Health and Human Services budget earmarked for family-planning services. The present and former presidents of CFC, Frances Kissling and Jon O'Brien, fear the loss of status, but they fear the loss of power as political gatekeepers even more.

In dwelling on the political aspects of the attack by O'Brien and Kissling, I neglected to probe the deeper issue feeding their animus against the "abortion reduction" argument and Kelley's support for it. That dimension reveals a subculture among abortion supporters that may well distinguish O'Brien and Kissling from Kelley. If not, it surely distinguishes them from many who consider themselves "pro-choice."

O'Brien considers his objection to Kelley's advocacy of abortion reduction so fundamental that he describes both her and Catholics in Alliance as "anti-choice." I should have paused longer over that description, because it reveals an outlook entirely at odds with the abortion-reduction program (assuming that it is held as a matter of sincere conviction and not political expediency).

When O'Brien accuses Kelley of an "abandonment of ideals," it should be clear that Catholics for Choice cares, first and foremost, about protecting a woman's alleged "right" to end a human life in her womb. What pains O'Brien and Kissling is any stifling of a woman's choice, not the death of an unborn child. What enrages these two about Kelley is that she and her organization publicly regarded abortion as something to be equated with torture or war. Catholics for Choice is so exercised over Kelley's leadership that the organization produced a pamphlet titled, "The Trouble with Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good."

Indeed, Kissling and O'Brien employ "pro-choice" not as a euphemism to disguise the horror of what they espouse, but as a direct signifier of what they value to the exclusion of anything else: choice. Anyone who describes herself as pro-choice but has any impulse to protect the unborn is "anti-choice." Thus is revealed the darkest recesses in the "culture of death," when all compassion for the unborn child is reviled in the name of freedom. . .

72 posted on 06/11/2009 4:29:15 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Salvation; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
The media will not rest until viable babies are once again being slaughtered in Bloody Kansas.

Thread by Salvation.

Doc [from Nebraska] plans to offer 3rd-term abortions in Kansas

OMAHA, Neb. - A Nebraska doctor says he'll perform third-term abortions in Kansas after the slaying of abortion provider George Tiller, even though Tiller's clinic is closed.

Dr. LeRoy Carhart declined to discuss his plans in detail during a telephone interview with The Associated Press, but insisted "there will be a place in Kansas for the later second and the medically indicated third-trimester patients very soon."

"I just think that until everything is in place, it's something that doesn't need to be talked about" in detail, Carhart said a day after Tiller's family announced his Wichita clinic was permanently shutting its doors. . .

73 posted on 06/11/2009 4:31:42 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Republic; floriduh voter; BykrBayb; Lesforlife; Sun; amdgmary; 8mmMauser; EternalVigilance
I still ache remembering those long days we all prayed and cried out for Terri to receive water and food.

I do not know how her parents or bobby or sister held on. I don't. Our Father must have really tucked them into a very special place.

I truly regret that my schedule prevented me from being down there while Terri was being murdered, but those of you who were have my eternal and heartfelt gratitude.

74 posted on 06/11/2009 4:35:43 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


75 posted on 06/11/2009 9:18:54 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Surprise, surprise, I post a thread on why the disabled deserve food and water and the trolls show up to complain that it "costs too much".

Experts Confront Problem of Euthanasia by Omission

PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania, JUNE 11, 2009 (Zenit.org).- A group of experts are highlighting papal teaching that people in persistent comas should be nourished regardless of the cost, as an ordinary duty of persons to one another.

This was affirmed in an article published this month in the journal of the National Catholic Bioethics Center, Ethics and Medics, signed by a group of 15 scholars.

Some of the contributing scholars are: Robert George, jurisprudence professor at Princeton University; William May, retired moral theology professor at the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family; Christian Brugger, moral theology professor at St. John Vianney Theological Seminary; and Father Thomas Berg, executive director of Westchester Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.

They responded to a statement published in the February issue of Commonweal, written by a consortium consisting of seven directors of bioethics programs at Jesuit universities, about the "papal teaching on the moral requirement to provide food and water to patients in the so-called persistent vegetative state."

The aim of the consortium, the scholars asserted, "is to influence the American bishops against amending the 'Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services.'"

The article reported that this month the bishops will consider the amendment which will "bring the directives in line with the March 2004 teaching of Pope John Paul II" on the "persistent vegetative state."

The scholars underlined a 1992 document by the pro-life committee of the U.S. bishops titled "Nutrition and Hydration: Moral and Pastoral Reflections," which "warned against any removal of food and water from persons in the vegetative state based on a 'quality of life' judgment about the value of their lives or on the cost of total care."

Although the prelates did not at that time explicitly include patients in the vegetative state, they noted that this was only because they were waiting for the official word from the magisterium, which came with Pope John Paul II.

The article reported the Pope's statement that "providing food and water to patients in a [persistent vegetative state] is morally required, even when doing so does not facilitate the patient's recovery from the comatose condition."

It explained: "Providing food and water should not be considered a medical act strictly speaking, but an ordinary and proportionate means of caring for disabled patients; the Pope calls them forms of basic health care to which every patient, no matter how disabled, has a right. . .


76 posted on 06/13/2009 4:24:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
This is a gruesome, but fantastic, story of how a former Tiller employee became pro-life.

Thread by NYer.

How George Tiller Drove his Own Employee to Join Operation Rescue (Graphic Content Alert!)

ENID, Oklahoma, June 11, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A former employee of Kansas late-term abortionist George Tiller has shared how her gruesome experiences at Tiller's abortion facility drove her away from her pro-choice views and into a life of activism for the rights of the unborn.

Luhra Tivis, who was hired as a temp worker for Tiller and eventually became a full employee for one year, discussed her story Tuesday with the Enid News & Eagle in the wake of Tiller's death May 31. Tiller was shot and killed while serving as an usher in his Lutheran church. His family has stated that Tiller's Wichita abortion facility, Women's Health Care Services, will not reopen.

In addition to normal secretarial work, Tivis told the Eagle that she "underwent some sales training" when she began work in 1988. In a separate testimony, published on the Pro-Life Action League's website, Tivis explained: "I thought they were going to tell me how they want the information sheet filled out and how to keep the phone record and this and that.

"But what I was handed instead was a packet of information - materials to study - on how to be a high-pressure salesperson over the phone, like telemarketing: how to convince somebody to buy your product."

Though Tivis says Tiller assured her at the outset that he only performed late-term abortions on "severely deformed" children or for a medical crisis, Tivis says she soon came to realize that Tiller's words were not consistent with his practice.

“I was seeing eight- and nine-month pregnant women come in,” she said, “and out of those two dozen a week, only about 2 percent had medical deformities. I thought I was pro-choice back then, but week after week I kept seeing these women coming in with healthy babies and I saw all the records. I didn’t think that was right.” 

Tivis' testimony is congruent with the allegations of Operation Rescue, who had frequently denounced Tiller for killing perfectly healthy late-term babies. At the time of his death, Tiller was under investigation by the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts for performing illegal late-term abortions.

Discussing the typical abortion procedure, Tivis told the Pro-Life Action League in a previous interview: "[the mothers] have a sonogram, first thing and he tells them, 'Oh, you're not that far along.' He's very happy to take their money. Then the first thing he does to them is he kills that baby, because once that baby is dead, they can't change their mind and get their money back.

"He uses the sonogram — a tool for life — to kill the baby. He uses that to guide the needle into the baby's heart and he injects it with digoxin, which is a heart medication and it slows the baby's heart down.

"The second day, the women come in and they have little group counseling sessions, but they don't do any counseling until after that baby is already dead."

Livis described the testimony of a Southwest Kansas woman who had written a letter to Tiller, which Tivis says the abortionist distributed to his staff to read, describing her third-trimester abortion there as "the most horrible experience of her life."

"Although I was not down in the basement for any more than just a few seconds when those women were down there, I got a very vivid description of what actually went on down there from this woman," said Tivis, referring to a room in the facility where women would give birth to their babies' corpses following an abortion. "She said that women were crying and screaming and there was blood everywhere - blood running down their legs and it was just horrible."

One of the more disturbing aspects of the abortion process at Tiller's clinic was the "memorial services" he openly offered, as published on his website, to parents after they had killed their child. Tiller even employed a chaplain at his clinic, where he offered baptisms, baptismal certificates, and mementos such as a lock of hair or "fetal footprints."

The clinic also offered parents a chance to bond with the child's corpse for a little while after the abortion, in a process Tiller described in a 1996 promotional video as an "identification and separation encounter." 

"We will bring the baby to you, either at the bedside, or we will go to our quiet room, and we will bring the baby to you there," said the abortionist. 

"During this encounter we will describe to you what's right with your baby, we will identify what's wrong with your baby. You may hold the baby. We can take pictures of you and the family holding the baby, if you wish, and that is not an uncommon request. ... the identification/separation encounter may involve 2 or 3 hours of bonding with the baby - the identification that this is your baby and you have had a delivery."

Tivis told the Eagle about one pivotal experience just before leaving the office: Tiller emerged from the surgery room with a cardboard box one day and asked her to open a door for him. Tivis saw his crematorium - where the babies' remains are regularly incinerated.

“I realized that box was full of dead babies," said Tivis. "That freaked me out."

She says Tiller fired her after an attorney she had applied for a position with told Tiller she was searching for jobs. . . 

77 posted on 06/13/2009 4:28:47 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Some people are simply deranged.

Thread by me.

Abortion is pro-life (Barf Alert!)

In his commencement address to the University of Notre Dame’s 2009 graduating class last month, President Obama recognized an obvious truth with his statement that pro and anti abortion advocates have certain irreconcilable differences. Those differences were obvious when Obama’s invitation to Notre Dame was subject to controversy and pronounced public disagreement. It was obvious again during the President’s commencement address when anti-abortion advocates vocally challenged the President and were, in turn, vocally challenged by others in the audience. What might not be so obvious, however, is that one of the differences between the two sides of this issue, whether irreconcilable or not, is in the area of logic.

Beyond the questionable logic of defining as a human being the primordial parasitical conglomeration of human cells attached to the female uterus; beyond the questionable logic of considering the medical use and destruction of human stem cells to be a form of homicide; beyond the questionable logic of condemning birth control as immoral; beyond all of this questionable logic is the flawed logic found in the narrow, fervent focus on the “unborn” by so called pro-life advocates. Ultimately, they are not pro-life.

Life on earth is more than the animate existence of the human species regardless of what state of development it is in, or could develop into. It is, in fact, an interdependent, complex, network of many species that depend on a careful balance among them all to sustain them all. Because they all share a finite planet with finite resources upon which they all rely for continued existence, their mutual survival is threatened by the disproportionate procreation of any one of them.

Because human population on this planet has grown to a disproportionately high level, it has done extensive damage to the network of life, and now threatens the very existence of many species including humans themselves. Those so concerned about the sanctity of life that they seek to criminalize abortion, condemn, and even persecute those who support it are not thinking past myopic moralities. Birth control methods actually preserve life by preventing continued irresponsible increases in human population.

~snip~

The argument that a reallocation of world resources will solve this Malthusian nightmare is ultimately based on an expectation of the miraculous—both economic and ecological. The problem is demand, not supply. The world is simply running out of the basic finite resources, water, arable land, and sea life, needed to create food. The solution, therefore, is not going to come from increasing supply; it must come from reducing demand, which means reducing population, which, in turn, means effectively controlling birth rates.

Abortion is one effective method to do that, but just one. The number of abortions can be reduced by availing women of birth control methods, devices, and pharmaceuticals that can prevent conception, but when public policy is polluted with theological moralities, as it was under the Bush Presidency, these birth control alternatives can be denied the world’s women who need them the most. This moral arrogance only results in more death by abortion, starvation, and disease. This is not pro-life.

Abortion is pro choice, and, until human population is reduced to a sustainable level, it is also pro-life.

78 posted on 06/13/2009 4:31:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

For the Record!

Saint George Tiller

http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=100720


79 posted on 06/13/2009 4:38:16 PM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: wagglebee
Surprise, surprise, I post a thread on why the disabled deserve food and water and the trolls show up to complain that it "costs too much".

Please show ONE quote where someone complains that it 'costs too much'. Thank you.

80 posted on 06/13/2009 5:28:49 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: ColdWater; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Dante3; 8mmMauser

This is the “Terri Dailies” thread, it IS NOT open for debate.


81 posted on 06/13/2009 5:32:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


82 posted on 06/13/2009 9:35:19 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee

Tiller killed utilizing a toilet. He was sure concerned about dignity for his victims and their mothers.


83 posted on 06/14/2009 1:19:09 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's Health Care Plan Puts the "you" in euthanasia.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
A fairly well-balanced article on euthanasia.

Thread by me.

Assisted suicide debate beginning in Lake County

In the Oscar winning movie “Million Dollar Baby,” the female boxer Maggie Fitzgerald ends up paralyzed from the neck down and asks her coach to end her life.

“I got what I needed. I got it all. Don’t let ‘em [the doctors] keep taking it away from me,” she begs.

When those words were uttered in 2004 the debate over assisted suicide was underway, but today the debate strongly rages on in the national spotlight.

Jerry Dincin, Lake County resident and president of the Final Exit Network, thinks this is an issue that people need to start thinking about.

“This is going to be the ultimate civil rights issue of the 21st century,” said Dincin. “People don’t like to talk about it, but they will have to soon.”

Bonnie Quirke, the vice-president of Lake County Right to Life, believes that the assisted suicide debate is no different than the abortion debate.

“They have just moved the geography of the debate from the womb to the ward,” said Quirke.

The 2005 case of Terri Schiavo brought this debate to the forefront of most American’s minds, but Quirke believes the issue really began in 1973, the year of the Roe decision.

“The whole problem started in ’73,” said Quirke. “When you take one class of people and segregate them from the human family, it becomes easier to segregate anyone from the human family.”

. . .

84 posted on 06/15/2009 4:29:31 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
This is simply heartbreaking on so many levels.

Thread by NYer.

Woman aborts other mother’s last embryo (implanted in wrong patient)

A MOTHER desperate to have a second child has told how she lost her last IVF embryo when the NHS implanted it into the wrong patient.

When the other woman found out that the embryo was not hers, she aborted it.

Details of the blunder raise fresh questions about the way IVF clinics are regulated.

The Sunday Times has previously revealed that women undergoing fertility treatment have had their eggs fertilised with the wrong sperm.

Deborah, the woman who lost her chance of another baby, is so traumatised by the error that she is reluctant to risk further IVF to have a longed-for sibling for her son, Jamie, 6.

Because Deborah is 40 her prospects of having another child with her boyfriend, Paul, 38, are slim and diminishing.

Deborah, who does not want to disclose her surname, said: “I will never forget the moment the hospital broke the news to us. Initially, the hospital told me there had been an accident in the lab and that the embryo had been damaged. I thought that someone had, perhaps, dropped the embryo dish.

“I remember thinking: ‘That’s our last hope gone – we will never have another child.’ I left the hospital feeling totally shell-shocked.

“When we went back to the hospital two days later and we were told the truth about my embryo being given to someone else I was so angry.”

Deborah, a healthcare worker, and Paul, who have been together for 17 years, went on the NHS waiting list for fertility treatment in 1996. After two failed attempts, Jamie was born on the third cycle in 2003. . .

85 posted on 06/15/2009 4:32:22 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Zero, Hitlery, Biden and the rest can try to redefine Christianity all they want, but Christians have ALWAYS opposed abortion.

Thread by me.

Early Christians and Abortion

June 15, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - This article presents the Christian attitude toward abortion before the first ecumenical council, that is, until A.D. 325. Because the New Testament does not comment on the morality of abortion, this article considers the writings of the first generations of Christians after the apostles, for they indicate that opposition to abortion (1) was shared at a time when the writers — or Christians not many generations earlier — personally knew the apostles or their first disciples and thus benefited from their unwritten teachings and interpretations of Scripture, (2) comes from a date so early that there was no likelihood for the original gospel to have been corrupted, and (3) is not based on only one interpretation of the Bible among many but was the interpretation of Christians who were personally familiar with the New Testament writers or their early followers.

With the exception of one author who wrote at length on the subject, early Christian writings do not discuss abortion in depth but merely state in a few words or phrases that it was forbidden to Christians. Most of the authors of the period do not touch on the subject but those who did considered it among the worst of sins. . .

86 posted on 06/15/2009 4:36:10 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: bdeaner; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
A wonderful story of a couple who put their faith in God and not science.

Thread by bdeaner.

Catholic sextuplet parents tell how they ignored doctors who said to abort some of the babies

A Catholic couple who had sextuplets last month have revealed how they were told by doctors to abort some of the babies.

Nuala Conway, who gave birth to the first sextuplets in the UK for more than 25 years, was warned about the high risks of carrying so many children. The first-time mother and her husband Austin were told at 14 weeks that they could terminate some of them to reduce the risk during the pregnancy. But the former fashion store worker insisted she was putting her faith in God and wanted to go ahead. . .

87 posted on 06/15/2009 4:39:45 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


88 posted on 06/15/2009 8:53:41 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: rhema; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
It's sickening to see which lives the leftist media values and which lives they don't.

Thread by rhema.

Abortionist Killed: National News -- Abortionist Kills Woman: Ignored

Abortionist George Tiller's death brought an outpouring of national media headlines and Congressional condolences to his family by a resolution approved by the US House. Laura Hope Smith's death at the hands of an abortionist was and continues to be ignored and her mother's effort to bring it to the attention of her senator was stonewalled.

"Where was the press when my daughter Laura died at the hands of an abortionist?" asks Eileen Smith, Laura's mother. A media search shows mostly news reports from nonprofit organizations, religious news and other alternative media.

Laura's death was mentioned 10 months later in one major publication, The Boston Globe, when the abortionist was indicted for manslaughter. It was 6 weeks before her local paper, The Cape Cod Times, mentioned Laura's death, although it sought out her mother for a two-hour interview just 2 days after Laura's death. Smith says the local newspaper rationalized delaying a report on Laura's death so it could corroborate it with an autopsy report.

"Since when has news been postponed in lieu of reporting facts except in the abortion deaths of the mothers?" asks Smith. "I have to believe that it is only because the media's bias toward abortion determines what makes news," she said.

"If Laura had died falling off a bike or in a car accident it would have been in the paper the next day," she said. "My daughter walked into that abortion facility healthy and she left dead," Smith said. . .

89 posted on 06/17/2009 4:10:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
This message is vital for EVERYONE in the pro-life movement.

Thread by NYer.

Pro-life Leaders Face Death Threats, Require Protection From Abortion Rights Radicals

June 16, 2009 - In the aftermath of the shooting of late-term abortionist, Dr. George Tiller, American pro-life leaders have been receiving death threats prompting round-the-clock protection from authorities.

Jill Stanek, vilified last week at MSNBC, is the Illinois nurse who exposed the practice of abandoning babies that survive abortions. She has tracked and reported on the career of Dr. Tiller for years at her blog.  When I asked her this week about her own safety in wake of the shooting, Stanek said that she, along with Troy Newman of Operation Rescue and Fr. Frank Pavone at Priests for Life, had been receiving credible threats from a "troubled man involved in the abortion industry."  Jill said that this individual is the child of a pro-choice advocate/writer and his mother had aborted several of his siblings.  Following the Tiller shooting, the stalker emailed Stanek again.  Federal agents are currently monitoring his movements.

Pro-life leaders have uniformly been forced to increase security measures to address threats of violence.  In recent days Stanek has been placed under continuous police and federal protection following email threats to kill her at church or as she left her home 

"Let me know which address is right, there's a few I could post. Or I could just drive around the houses and wait to see which one you walk out of.... Don't worry, I will find it."

Stanek also stated that her local pastors have gotten emails calling for her murder at church services.

"the least you could do is offer to hold a rifle blessing service in her honor."


When questioned about security, Fr. Frank Pavone, founder of Priests for Life, said that he needs armed escorts at speaking engagements to guard him against disruptive pro-abortion demonstrators.  Individuals from groups such as NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and Catholics for Choice are often bussed in to derail these presentations.  Even peaceful prayer vigils, so common to the pro-life movement, can be dangerous.  Fr. Pavone was leading a prayer service in Bellingham, WA when someone confronted him and spit in his face.  Prior to his appearances, local groups Fr. Pavone calls, "pro-abortion radicals and anarchists," often signal their intent to lead violent demonstrations; but in recent days he says he’s gotten more serious messages.

Father Frank, It would make me very happy if someone were to respond to this by snuffing YOU. No fooling. Right-to-lifers, in my book, no longer have a right to life.

At the Priests for Life blog, another anonymous writer said: "Killing Father Frank will not be murder. It will be justifiable homicide."

In November 2008, months before Dr. Tiller was murdered, Fr. Pavone received the following:

IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR FATHER FRANK PAVONE

I am predicting that there will be more anti-abortion terror because of this election. I AM ALSO PREDICTING THAT THIS TIME IT WILL BE ANSWERED IN KIND BY PRO-CHOICE COUNTERTERRORISTS, who will mount similar terrorist attacks against well-known right-to-lifers. FATHER FRANK will be a natural target for pro-choice counterterrorists.

I therefore advise you, Fr Frank, if you read that there has been another abortion-clinic shooting or bombing, get out of town immediately. Take a vacation abroad. Go visit the
Vatican. If there is another act of anti-abortion terror, your life will not be safe in the USA.

Good luck.

Visible anti-abortion figures in this country get regular threats on their lives and receive violent anti-social messages.  In 2008 UCLA undergrad Lila Rose garnered national attention for exposing illegal practices at Planned Parenthood clinics.  The menacing emails have continued since Rose went public with her investigations. 

Columnist and mother of nine, Jenn Giroux is founder of the pro-life group, Women Influencing the Nation. Giroux was a leader in the grass roots effort to take legal action against Tiller and his clinic.   Following the shooting, she suspended her website, ChargeTiller.com, due to a barrage of profane and violent posts. 

Pro-abortion aggression isn’t only a reality for movement leaders.  Judie Brown heads up the American Life League, a landmark organization founded after Roe v. Wade.  In response to our questions the league issued a statement.  It calls to mind the hostility pro-lifers face at every level as they, "stand in beautiful and striking contrast to both the violence inherent to the abortion mill and the street-side violence and drive-by intimidation of abortion supporters."

90 posted on 06/17/2009 4:13:36 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
This is one of the best commentaries I've ever seen by Chuck Colson.

Thread by me.

Chuck Colson: In His Image - The Roots of Social Justice

We’re hearing a lot these days about human rights and social justice—particularly among younger evangelicals, but also among secularists. It’s a good thing that there is a growing concern for the poor and the oppressed around the world.

But when the younger generation approaches people like me and tells us that we need to be working for “social justice,” what I tell them is that we’re already doing it. In fact, I believe it’s the single greatest apologetic of the Christian Church.

But what makes us different from the secularists, however, is our worldview—especially in our belief in a fundamental truth that goes right to the heart of who we are. We know all human rights and social justice are grounded in the imago Dei—the fact that we are created in the image of God.

I can’t emphasize that enough. The secularists want social justice, but at the same time, they want to turn right around and deny the very thing that makes social justice possible. It doesn’t work.

I heard a magnificent sermon recently by Dr. Tim Keller, pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York. He makes this point powerfully in a sermon called “In the Image of God.” With great eloquence, Keller talked about what it means to be created in God’s image and its implications for the way we live.

Because we are created in the image of God, human life is sacred. We have value, worth, and dignity. Science by itself doesn’t give us any basis for that view. So when a society loses its belief in God, it starts to believe that humans are only valuable based upon their “capacities”—and then you get views like those of Dr. Peter Singer of Princeton, who believes that some human lives have no value and deserve no protection.

The whole civil rights movement sprang from a biblical worldview. It’s not just a tradition in Western thought, Dr. Keller reminds us. Even “Aristotle said some races are born to be slaves.” But the Bible tells us in Genesis that humans are accountable for each other’s lives, precisely because God created us in His image. Martin Luther King, Jr., and other civil rights leaders took their views directly from this way of thinking about God and humanity. Dr. King even talked about the imago Dei in his sermon “The American Dream.”

And this is exactly why you and I can’t make a distinction between being pro-life and fighting for human rights. As Dr. Keller shows, there is an unbroken connection between human life in the womb and human life in all other stages and circumstances.

That is the Christian view. It’s why early Christians condemned abortion and cared for abandoned babies. It’s why I wrote in my book The Faith that if you say you are a Christian and are pro-choice, you’d better check whether you are acting in obedience to God and belong in the company of Christian fellowship. “When you believe in the image of God,” Dr. Keller explains, “the circle of protected life expands. But when you don’t believe in the image of God . . . the circle will continually contract.”

Visit our website, BreakPoint.org, to find out how you can order a copy of Dr. Keller’s brilliant sermon, “In the Image of God.” You’ll never hear a better explanation of one of the unique and most important contributions Christianity has made to Western civilization.


91 posted on 06/17/2009 4:15:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Archbishop Burke has again spoken out on Zero's Notre Dame speech.

Thread by me.

Church Must Prevent Repeat of Notre Dame Betrayal Says Top American Prelate in Vatican

VATICAN CITY, June 17, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Archbishop Raymond Burke, the highest ranking American prelate in the Vatican has given an interview in a Catholic magazine, in which he says that Notre Dame’s decision to honor President Barack Obama was not only “profoundly shocking,” but also underscores a grave situation requiring action to ensure the incident is never repeated.

Burke is the prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the highest court of appeal in the Church next to the Pope, and an outspoken advocate for life and family values. He has made headlines repeatedly for his insistence that ministers of communion should deny the sacrament to publicly and obstinantely pro-abortion individuals, especially politicians. He told the Catholic periodical, Inside the Vatican, that a number of lessons must be taken from Notre Dame’s high-profile conferral of an honorary doctorate on Obama, the most aggressive pro-abortion president in American history.

Burke said that the “betrayal of the Catholic identity of Notre Dame University” grew out of the danger of “pursuing a kind of prestige in the secular world, which leads to a betrayal of the sacred aspect of its work, namely the fidelity to Christ and His teaching.”

“So I think everybody now realizes the gravity of the situation. Also I believe that the whole situation has sensitized more people with regard to the gravity of the practice of procured abortion in our nation, that is, they realize even more how far we have gone away from God’s will for human life,” continued Burke.

“That the premiere Catholic university in the United States would give an honorary doctorate of law to one of the most aggressive pro-abortion politicians in our history is profoundly shocking.”

“Now, we cannot forget what has happened at Notre Dame,” said Burke. “We need to take the measures that are necessary so that this is not repeated in other places. If it could happen at Notre Dame, where else could it happen?”

Burke praised the witness of Bishop John D’Arcy of Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana, whose diocese encompasses Notre Dame, for his “very powerful witness” to the “Gospel of Life.” D’Arcy had boycotted the Notre Dame graduation ceremonies in protest and rebuked the school’s president, Fr. John Jenkins for honoring a President who has made “laws which are against innocent life.”  

. . .

92 posted on 06/17/2009 4:19:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


93 posted on 06/17/2009 8:26:18 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee
Maybe he'll need a Frankmobile. I guess the days of walking up to converse w/ Fr. Pavone are waning. Father Pavone is a giant among men. I'll pray for pro-lifers' safety. That the msm calls them anti-abortion shows me they are afraid to say the "life" word cuz the opposite of life is death which is their true agenda. Death cultists will never state that they are pro-death.

Al Quaeda is pro-death too.

94 posted on 06/19/2009 10:52:45 AM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's Health Care Plan Puts the "you" in euthanasia.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
This is a heartwarming thread, but it also shows how dangerous the pro-death movement has become.

Thread by Free ThinkerNY.

Mother cradles baby for last time after life support is switched off (then baby came back to life)

This picture shows the heart-breaking moment a mother believed she was cradling her baby for the last time after making the agonising decision to switch off her life support.

Emily Ashurst cradled her baby Grace close to her chest, thinking they would be her last moments together after the six-week old was struck down by meningitis.

But the baby girl stunned doctors by coming back to life after her life support machine was switched off.

Grace Vincent was given a one per cent chance of survival after being struck down with the deadly brain bug at just six weeks old.

After four days in intensive care, her parents were told she had 'catastrophic brain damage and had no chance of living' and made the awful decision to turn off the life support machine.

But as they stood at her hospital bedside preparing for her last gasping breaths, they saw Grace beginning to breathe on her own.

She has continued her miraculous recovery and today, four weeks on, she was released from hospital and taken home to Holystone, Newcastle.

Her mother, Emily Ashurst, 26, said hearing her cry for the first time in a month was 'the nicest sound in the world'.


95 posted on 06/19/2009 4:41:25 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: bdeaner; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
It seems that Notre Dame is not alone in their desire to desecrate the Catholic Church.

Threads by bdeaner and me.

Some Catholic College Leaders to Bishops: Withdraw Ban on Pro-Abortion Speakers

In the wake of the Notre Dame commencement scandal, Catholic college leaders representing some of the worst violators of the U.S. bishops’ 2004 ban on honoring public opponents of fundamental Catholic teachings are lobbying the bishops to withdraw their policy.

Yesterday the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities (ACCU), which represents more than 200 Catholic institutions, released its summer 2009 newsletter, including a report on the ACCU’s board of directors meeting last week. The ACCU directors concluded “that it would be desirable for the [U.S. bishops] to withdraw” their 2004 policy, according to the newsletter.

The policy in question is found in the U.S. bishops’ 2004 statement “Catholics in Political Life,” which reads in part:

“The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”

The bishops gather today in San Antonio, Texas, for their biannual meeting.

“Why is it so hard for Catholic college leaders to understand that a Catholic institution does great harm when it honors or gives speaking platforms to those who work against core Catholic values?” said Patrick J. Reilly, president of The Cardinal Newman Society. . .

______________________________________________________________

Catholic Colleges Support Internships with Pro-Abortion Orgs, Including Planned Parenthood, NARAL

June 17, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A national Catholic higher education organization has identified 10 Catholic colleges and universities that are promoting student internships with organizations whose missions or activities are directly opposed to the moral teachings of the Catholic Church, including on fundamental issues such as abortion and marriage. 

“This discovery validates the concerns of so many thousands of faithful Catholic parents and students, that public scandals at Catholic colleges are just the tip of the iceberg,” said Patrick J. Reilly, President of The Cardinal Newman Society (CNS).  “Under what definition of ‘Catholic education’ do students receive academic credit to work for leading pro-abortion organizations?”

Last week, CNS wrote to the presidents of these colleges and universities to inform them of the problems with their internship programs.  None have yet indicated that they will take steps to remedy the problems. . .

96 posted on 06/19/2009 4:46:16 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for keeping up with this, wagglebee! We need to be vigilent. God bless.


97 posted on 06/19/2009 4:47:51 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Forget about "safe and legal and rare" now they just want infanticide to be safe and plentiful.

Thread by me.

Global "Safe Abortion" Conference Denies Conscience Protections, Risks of Abortion

NEW YORK, NY, June 19, 2009 (C-FAM) - A year-and-a-half after the "Global 'Safe Abortion'" conference took place in London, abortion advocates Marie Stopes International and Ipas just released the conference report detailing the abortion movement’s worldwide strategy.

While organizers claimed that the primary objective of the conference was to "save women's lives and reduce maternal mortality," the report reveals that participants prioritized a so-called "right" to "safe and legal abortion" above all else – dismissing any evidence of its harmful effects on women and even denying the right of conscientious medical professionals to object to participating in abortions.

The 800 conference participants, culled from the world's major abortion advocacy groups, crafted and signed the "Global Call to Action for Women’s Access to Safe Abortion" demanding that women everywhere "have full access to legal, voluntary, safe, and affordable abortions as part of comprehensive sexual and reproductive health care." The Call to Action also demanded that governments reform their laws and policies "at all levels" to ensure "rights to contraception and safe abortion," and that medical schools provide "physicians, nurses, midwives, and other healthcare workers" with abortion training.

Presenters lamented that even where abortion is legal, there are technical and policy barriers to contend with, such as shortages of trained, authorized healthcare personnel, particularly in rural areas. Strategies to address this lack of access to abortion focused on training non-physician "mid-level providers," such as nurses and midwives, and promoting "medication abortion" to "facilitate" the "expulsion of uterine contents," as well as undermining conscience protections relied on by physicians, nurses and other health care workers opposed to taking unborn life. . .

98 posted on 06/19/2009 4:49:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: bdeaner

You’re quite welcome, and thanks for all you do too!

God Bless


99 posted on 06/19/2009 4:50:58 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


100 posted on 06/19/2009 8:07:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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