George Tiller (Child Murderer) shot to death at Wichita church

Wichita Eagle ^ | 05/30/2009 | Stan Finger

[Kansas58]

Kansas Abortionist George Tiller was shot today as he was going to Church.

[SaraJohnson]

How many read Clara Lou’s comments out of over 1,000 posts? How many did you attack? Two?

[SeattleBruce]

Operation Rescue Statement:

“We are shocked at this morning’s disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down. Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller’s family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”
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I’m also glad to see this statement - as others mentioned too. Surely if Operation Rescue, which have put their bodies, reputations and wallets where their mouths are; which have risked arrest, lawsuits and worse, sees things this way, we can also distance ourselves from the vigilantism stupidity that takes an extremely short term view as more important the long term gains of the entire pro-life movement.

[driftdiver]

It does prevent the young woman who isn’t sure what to do from getting sucked into their death mill. Once a woman walks in the door it is very difficult for her to get out without having an abortion. They hate to see their revenue walk out the door.

So get that young woman to a proper counseling center and you can reduce the chances she will choose abortion.

[driftdiver]

“No pro-life person kills another human being except in a just war. “

You’re kidding right.

[SaraJohnson]

The antagonists of the seeds of political correctness blew through my church and found no soil in which to take root. We ignored them until they went away in a huff. They will be back.

[library user]

...the elite are now ignoring the constitution too large of an extent to make it tolerable. The rule of law in this land is the constitution. When the elite ignore the constitution in making their laws and the courts refuse to enforce the constitution; there is no rule of law and from election to election. It gets worse and wrose.

Agreed. How will anything short of a revolution return us to better times?

[Kansas58]

Good post!

When you dial 9-11, to report a break in, do you demand that the officer that comes to your rescue be a devout, practicing Christian, faithful to all the Commandments?

Why do we Conservatives always demand that of our elected officials?

I want my cops to shoot correctly, at the perps.

I want my politicians do vote correctly.

End of story!

[Czar]

No, I did not.

[awake-n-angry]

Catholic doctrine is such that the intention or desire to have an abortion is as sinful and tragic as having the abortion. Focusing on making abortion illegal or inconvenient should not be the focus of the fight. We have to change people’s hearts. In some cultures the news of a pregnancy, no matter the situation, is celebrated as a happy blessing. In our culture we have such a thing as an “unwanted pregnancy”. That is what has to change.

Much harder, but that is the chore that the Lord has given us- much more then any legislation or change in policy.

[driftdiver]

I see where you are coming from and agree to a point. I just think we need to have a number of tactics and use them as most appropriate.

Anything we can do to make it more difficult for a woman to choose abortion is a step towards victory. The majority of women would not choose to abort if they had adequate support.

Ideally women would not consider abortion to be a viable solution but we are a long ways from achieving that. Incrementalism is a very very effective political tool.

[jla]

The Whiskey Rebellion pushed the Irish down to the South? Have never read that, though I'd think Irish immigrants involved as well as men from other European countries, especially Quakers, who were and are not known to have a substantial number of Irish in their ranks.
I am glad you brought up this incident, in which Thomas J's nemesis, Alex. Hamilton inspired.

And, nothing at all 'sanctimonious' about my prev. post, just relating facts.

[MantillaMilitant]

Bravo! The left often wins because they are patient and willing to make ‘progress’ incrementally. We often lose because of purists’ all-or-nothing approach.

[Vanders9]

What about abortions on medical grounds?

[Vanders9]

Nature of the beast. Still, I dont like passing them ammunition.

[Bellflower]

Maybe the killer was a man who was in the depth of bereavement over his child being murdered by this man. This is possible.

[cherry]

"no justice,no peace"...."think globally,act locally".... "what goes around comes around" and "the people deserve what they want and they're goin' get it good and hard'.

just saying......

create a powder keg of anger and frustration and human beings will react.....

sadly, I see more of it coming but some people see no choice.......

[Vanders9]

I’m not a Catholic but we are of one mind on this one.

[Manic_Episode]

You are a credit to your cult.

[Kansas58]

I was only making the point that many flawed men did some very great things, through out history.

I think Thomas Paine was a courageous man, and a patriot, and those who disagree might not have done as much, in his shoes, as what he accomplished!

[SeattleBruce]

“Never before have I seen a thread here so sympathetic towards someone so evil. The Saddam Hussein of abortionists was just killed and people are ..... upset?”
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I don’t see it that way. I see the people here sticking up for the rule of law, even as we would for murderers and rapists. To not do so is to spit on the Constitution and the Torah (or wherever you think common law derives.) If you can’t tell the difference between this and some supposed compassion for the heinous Tiller, then I’m sorry, you’re on the wrong track.

Further, this sets back the broader pro-life movement, which, depsite the political set backs has seen great victories recently in the broader court of public opinion.

But we will labor on. We must distance ourself from this stupid act. We should have opposed the evil Tiller, as we’d already been doing, through the courts, fighting to get his license revoked and through all kinds of other means.

Romans 12:19: “Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.”

Does anyone have any questions about what that verse in Romans means?

[big'ol_freeper]

That’s a farce. Opens abortion up to anything. Might as well not restrict it because it won’t be.

[SeattleBruce]

“I bet you are sad that you can’t blame the Mormon church for this one, huh?”
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Why don’t you get back on topic?

[SaraJohnson]

We will have to see...and pray!

[Wolfstar]

One idiot doesn't represent all pro-lifers.

Uh...in post #30, you wrote this:

Damn. This will only make a martyr of Tiller and allow the media to portray pro-lifers as crazy and dangerous.

In post #569, I responded to you with:

If the perpetrator of this crime is pro-life and that's what motivated him to kill Tiller, then it's self-evident that some pro-lifers are, in fact, crazy and dangerous. The media doesn't have to lift a finger to make that point.

And you come back in post #994, quote your original post #30 and tell me that one idiot doesn't represent all pro-lifers? Having trouble keeping your own posts straight, are you?

[DesertRhino]

Jesus doesnt talk much at all in Exodus. And if you play that game, that area of the old testament also tells Moses and Saul both to kill the captured women, and their BABIES.

Does that mean sometimes God is Ok with baby killing? Stay out of the new testament there girlie, you are missing the point if you think the new testament gives a christian license to do anything mentioned there. Jesus is the way, not Moses.

[SaraJohnson]

I would say the same exact thing if I was heading up Operation Rescue. They do effective civil disobedience which surely enrages liberals and has liberals calling them murders of abortionists; but they do not advocate for violence.

However, for one man - maybe and we don’t know his motivations for sure - the sight of Tiller the Killer’s handiwork may have been just too much.

[SeattleBruce]

Brilliant analysis - ‘twaddle’ how?

[Kansas58]

Nope, your path is foolish at best!

Nothings says that we can not do our best, politically, while also, morally, advising that ALL abortion is wrong.

Why must abortion be handled DIFFERENTLY than every other political issue?

Politics is the very ART of COMPROMISE!

And, if you refuse to get the best deal you can, at EVERY opportunity:

YOU CREATE MONSTERS LIKE GEORGE TILLER!

George Tiller would never have been as powerful as he was, in Kansas, if not for the pro life purists who refused to put him out of business with politically popular legislation THAT WOULD HAVE PASSED!

[glock rocks]

Treating abortion as a tradeable political issue diminishes the value of each and every human life, uniquely created by Heavenly Father.

Same goes for self defense. Our forefathers were very wise men.

[SaraJohnson]

Conservatives, it appears, have too short of an attention span to do incremental.

[Clara Lou]

Look, I don't know what your point is. You said in post #907, Everyone on here claiming the media and government have the right to smear and attack the pro life movement because of the murder of a rabid abortionist..... You said "everyone". That's obviously false. You said everyone claims the media and government have the right to smear and attack the pro life movement.... No one said that. Your post is UNTRUE. If you want to call that an "attack," go right ahead. Doesn't make it true.

[supremedoctrine]

DYNAMITE cartoon!

[Vanders9]

My understanding is that the medical principle has always been to put the life of the mother ahead of that of the unborn child, if it should ever, God forbid, come to having to choose. Long standing principle, too. Dates back to Roman times. As far as I know, such abortions are perfectly legal in all States of the US (and indeed every country in the Western world).

Much more common in days gone by of course, when gynaecology was not so well understood and effective medicines less available, but I had a friend, a Christian lady, who had to have an abortion on medical grounds.

[big'ol_freeper]

Indeed and some folks, in the name of political compromise, are willing to negotiate away just about anything, including the very lives of “undesirables”.

Folks like Graham, Romney, McCain and that ilk are such creatures. They are not on our side, nor do I want them on our side.

[lewisglad]

may Dr. Tiller have repented his mulitude of sins on his deathbed, in a house of worship (how ironic)

[supremedoctrine]

I was shocked awhile back, when I first learned of how Tiller had enriched himself by his piecework $$$ per abortion. Anyone know the actual financial bottom line, which was no doubt his greatest “motivator”????

[Kansas58]

American Life Lobby went AGAINTS “Parental Consent” laws in Kansas.

They did so EVEN THOUGH ALL had supported IDENTICAL legislation in other states.

They did so because the NRLC affiliate was gaining ground, politically.

They did so out of pride and childishness, not any other reason!

Sorry, but ALL, Nellie Gray and Judie Brown pretty much CREATED George Tiller, because they would not allow Kansas to OUTLAW late term abortion, in Kansas, as they saw that bill as a “compromise”!!!

(And, again, Tiller was prosecuted under a law that ALL, Operation Rescue, Judy Brown and Nellie Gray OPPOSED at the time it was signed into law!)

The followers of the purists often have their hearts in the right place, but they are INCOMPETENT when it comes to legislation, and they are useful idiots for the likes of George Tiller!

[DesertRhino]

Bullcrap. Pure 100% gold plated bullcrap. I ask again, what chapter and verse does Jesus tell someone its ok to murder anyone?

And no, im not against war, in fact, i’ve fought in one.
Maybe thats why i can tell the difference in murder in the Church foyer, and war. It’s sickening if you think either one is very Christlike. Kinda reveals a lot of weakness of character on your part.

[SaraJohnson]

Mixed feelings and reactions. That is understandable in this conflict between the pro-death culture which has gained so much power and legal protection in this supposedly constitutional republic that is supposed to protect the rights of the innocent and arrest murderers. Its a real mess!

[SaraJohnson]

Please stop that.

[Conscience of a Conservative]

True, and unfortunate. This guy is may be a terrorist, but he’s certainly not “pro life.”

[Mrs. Don-o]

Could you post the URL for this video so I can cut and paste it? The link isn’t woking for me. (Don’t know if the problem is with the link or with my computer.)

[LdSentinal]

Scratch George Tiller from playing the Terminator in Terminator 5.

[DesertRhino]

“We’ve permitted a holocaust that’s tenfold worse than anything Hitler accomplished. In the eyes of satan, America may be the bigger success story”

Thats a dirty thing to say about this country. Sounds like something a liberal says. America sucks,,blah blah blah,,

[Kansas58]

I think we need to say we are “prochoice on the issue of shooting abortionists’ -—

Because it IS absurd!

And it makes the whole “prochoice’ term look absurd!

[SeattleBruce]

However, for one man - maybe and we don’t know his motivations for sure - the sight of Tiller the Killer’s handiwork may have been just too much.”
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Yes, Operation Rescue’s statement is important and consistent with their work throughout the last 2 decades. Non-violent civil disobedience.

I just think your second comment about ‘for one man’ is not right. This ‘one man’ needed to consider the broader movement and how this will affect our message with the whole society. How it will negatively affect our ability to win the hearts and minds of young people and to maintain the gains we’ve had in pro-life education that has finally seen those who identify themselves as a greater number than those that ID themselves as ‘pro-choice.’

Do you suppose this ‘one man’ thought all that through before he pulled the trigger? Do you think he pondered and meditated on the Scripture that tells us that ‘in the presence of many counselors, there is wisdom?’ And if he did not seek the counsel of other trusted people - which I would BET he did not, then he just went ahead and said ‘screw the bigger picture, I will kill this guy.’ To me this is classic case of some guy who thought he’d become an ‘insta-hero’ putting himself and his small thoughts in front of the bigger picture and God’s own wisdom in Romans 12:19: “Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.”

[DesertRhino]

I do. It was cowardly. NO other way to see it. He shot an unarmed man, unexpectedly, as he performed usher duties at a church. I dont agree with his church one iota, but that is the act of a *** C O W A R D ***.

Please review your code of the west, also your “code duello”.

[Kansas58]

What if the shooter did not see this as revenge or punishment, but as defense of the innocent?

I do not support shooting abortionists, but you are using Biblical verses that do not apply.

[SeattleBruce]

“But I doubt that his death will end abortions.”
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Excellent point. Ask yourself this question. What will end more abortions, murdering Tiller, or teaching our youth to value human life?

[wmfights]

Jesus doesnt talk much at all in Exodus.

Where do you think the foundation of our legal code came from?

Try reading the passage and see if anything in it applies. Exodus 21:22-23