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Opinion: The sword belongs in its sheath. Killing of George Tiller a ‘Malchus Moment’
Catholic Online ^ | 6/1/09 | Deacon Keith Fournier

Posted on 06/01/2009 6:00:53 AM PDT by tcg

All who know the objective truth about the dignity and value of every human life, from conception to natural death and at every moment in between, should decry this horrible act of violence. It must be unqualifiedly rejected and condemned within the Pro-Life community because of our unwavering conviction that every life, at every age and stage, has dignity and must be respected, protected and honored. This bedrock conviction should inform a “whole life/pro-life” ethic in those who gather under the banner of being Pro-Life.

A moral analysis tells us that the killing of a defenseless George Tiller is similar to the killing of every defenseless child in the womb who dies due to procured abortion. Both acts of killing are evil. Both must be completely rejected. Both should be decried by every person who is Pro-life.

We reject intentional abortion because every procured abortion is the killing of a member of our human family. The dignity of that little human person in the first home of the whole human race cries out for changing the unjust approach to giving protected status to intentional abortion in America. However, this dignity is present in all human persons, even those with whom we disagree and those whose actions we decry.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; choice; georgetiller; prolife; tiller
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All who know the objective truth about the dignity and value of every human life should decry this horrible act of violence.
1 posted on 06/01/2009 6:00:54 AM PDT by tcg
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To: tcg

What’s the problem with the pro-death crowd? Tiller was killed by one of their own - a post-birth abortionist whose violent background looks quite simlar to bill ayers.


2 posted on 06/01/2009 6:03:27 AM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: tcg

The difference here is that Tiller was a murderer on a large scale.


3 posted on 06/01/2009 6:04:47 AM PDT by IbJensen (If Catholics voted based upon the teachings of the church, there would be no abortion and no Obomba.)
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To: tcg
bump for later

Hoping this is one of the few reasonable columns I've seen to date.

4 posted on 06/01/2009 6:05:43 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcg

> All who know the objective truth about the dignity and value of every human life should decry this horrible act of violence.

Amen.


5 posted on 06/01/2009 6:06:20 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: IbJensen; newfreep; tcg

Sorry guys,

In the end, Tiller’s murderer will be responsible for more dead babies than even Tiller.

Nothing could have advanced the pro-abortionist cause more, at such a delicate time when popular opinion was JUST beginning to turn against abortionism, than a “clinic” bombing or an abortionist’s murder.


6 posted on 06/01/2009 6:07:52 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: tcg

We are now a country that reveres abortion and euthanasia.

Too many have remained silent when these laws have been passed or we have actually welcomed those laws.

Remember, God is watching. We need to stand up and speak up whenever we can.


7 posted on 06/01/2009 6:08:51 AM PDT by Carley (OBAMA IS A MALEVOLENT FORCE IN THE WORLD)
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To: tcg

The thing bothering me this morning is all the people and their families that will be out of work because of the man’s death /sarc


8 posted on 06/01/2009 6:09:02 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Crucify ! Crucify ! Crucify him!!)
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To: tcg

Funny - many of those who are sobbing for poor Tiller right now would have no qualms, if it were possible, to go back in time and kill Hitler before he started his murderous rampage.


9 posted on 06/01/2009 6:09:08 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (When you put Democrats in charge, stupid things happen)
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To: tcg

It was “street justice” which we decry as wrong ... but it was still justice.


10 posted on 06/01/2009 6:09:41 AM PDT by ikka (Brother, you asked for it!)
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To: tcg
"every life, at every age and stage, has dignity and must be respected, protected and honored."

NO.
I would not have honored him.
I would not have protected him.
I would not call anyone who killed him a murderer.

11 posted on 06/01/2009 6:10:29 AM PDT by icwhatudo
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To: tcg
A moral analysis tells us that the killing of a defenseless George Tiller is similar to the killing of every defenseless child in the womb who dies due to procured abortion....

_______________________________________________

Except for the fact that the wholly innocent unborn did nothing to anger anyone to the point of murder.

12 posted on 06/01/2009 6:10:39 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Carley

Kansas has laws making it illegal for Tiller to do some of the procedures he was doing.

Enforcement of those laws was blocked by corrupt politicians and AGs, who were obviously on the take (Tiller’s political contributions).

You can’t seal up a pressure cooker and expect an intact kitchen when you get back.


13 posted on 06/01/2009 6:12:05 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: tcg
IMO, the quandary is the conflict between knowing evil is present and wanting to dismiss it immediately, and knowing thou shalt not murder.

A man must resign himself to the mercy of God by acting on his God given conscience, or resign himself to the mercy of God as part of the collective (apparent) curse.

The test of a man's walk with God is deciding which is the God directed path.

Romans 13 gives us God's chosen magistrates for good .... but if the (all scripture is given by inspiration ... and is profitable for .... instruction ... ) ... magistrate no longer does good .... can we rely on the sentiment that threw off the shackles of bondage to England and directed to our own selves as duty, to do away with such (tyranny/evil) ?

14 posted on 06/01/2009 6:12:36 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: wtc911

Murder is defined as killing the innocent.


15 posted on 06/01/2009 6:12:40 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Westbrook
In the end, Tiller’s murderer will be responsible for more dead babies than even Tiller.

Sorry, millions of unborn babies disagree when one less murderer is gone.

8 weeks since his creation:


16 posted on 06/01/2009 6:13:14 AM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: knarf

Your last point.
Leftists take note -

you can’t block the ballot box, the jury box, and the soap box with impunity...


17 posted on 06/01/2009 6:13:43 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: reagan_fanatic

What I find funny is ostensible moral absolutists using moral relativism to make a point. (I haven’t been reading these threads much, though).


18 posted on 06/01/2009 6:14:01 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: newfreep
"What’s the problem with the pro-death crowd?"

They don't have a problem with it at all—Tiller was an embarrassment to them, his killer is now an embarrassment to the pro-life movement, so it's a win-win as far as they're concerned. But they're going to climb up on their hind trotters and bleat about it for years and years, to flog every ounce of political capital they can out of Tiller's corpse. Look for Obama to do something over-the-top to keep this in the public eye—maybe attend Tiller's funeral personally, maybe order Federal flags to fly at half-mast for a week.

19 posted on 06/01/2009 6:14:19 AM PDT by Fabozz
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To: tcg

Perhaps its not a good thing to be a friend of Kathleen Sebilius like Tiller was.


20 posted on 06/01/2009 6:14:46 AM PDT by Leg Olam (TOP SECRET! Os plan, 1 invade Poland 2 annex Sudetenland...)
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To: MrB
Murder is defined as killing the innocent.

It is? If you are found innocent of murder, does that make the victim guilty?

21 posted on 06/01/2009 6:15:11 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcg
All who know the objective truth about the dignity and value of every human life should decry this horrible act of violence.

Are you saying that the hand of God could NOT be at work here? Through out the Bible, didn't God strike down the wicked in various manners?

The real tragedy in this all is that the state (the entity, not the local and federal institutions) allowed this to happen, through not enforcing the laws, or upholding anything remotely close morality. The killer is responsible for his actions; the state is culpable in creating the environment.

22 posted on 06/01/2009 6:16:06 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: MrB
Murder is defined as killing the innocent.
Nope. Unlawful killing with malice aforethought. Very different.

Even if you hate the guy, he was operating within the law.

Change the law and throw him in the slammer fine; however, the minute you start allowing extra judicial killings is the minute the Obamaites break down your down and shoot you for being impolitic.

You really don't want to go there.

23 posted on 06/01/2009 6:16:51 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Strange... I don’t follow your “logic”...
Don’t bother.

Tiller wasn’t innocent. I feel no sadness at his untimely (too late) passing.


24 posted on 06/01/2009 6:16:55 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: ketsu
he was operating within the law

He was?

He was operating under the protection of a corrupt political, judicial, and law enforcement system, but not "within the law".

25 posted on 06/01/2009 6:18:16 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Turbo Pig
Are you saying that the hand of God could NOT be at work here? Through out the Bible, didn't God strike down the wicked in various manners?

The real tragedy in this all is that the state (the entity, not the local and federal institutions) allowed this to happen, through not enforcing the laws, or upholding anything remotely close morality. The killer is responsible for his actions; the state is culpable in creating the environment.

When did we become liberals? All this whining about environment and "creating environments" sounds like liberal whinging about how poor gang bangers aren't responsible for what they did because of "their environment".

Do you really want to follow your logic to its conclusion?

26 posted on 06/01/2009 6:19:12 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: Westbrook

See — that I don’t know about. I condemn the murder of Tiller, but I don’t know that this has set back the pro-life cause. (Obviously, it is a bad thing when the taking of a human life undermines the pro-life cause.) That said, certainly the murderer’s defense will bring up Tiller’s actions. People who don’t know who Tiller was, from the reactions I’ve seen, are under the impression he was just a run-of-the-(abortion)mill abortionist. When testimony comes out, they will become aware of his heinous acts were. I think most Americans will be astonished and outraged to learn that these late-term butcherings occur.


27 posted on 06/01/2009 6:19:12 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: Lee Heggy123

Perhaps it is not a good thing for the state to thwart all avenues of legitimate justice.


28 posted on 06/01/2009 6:19:13 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: MrB
Murder is the unlawful killing of another. "Innocence" has nothing to do with it, and for good reason. Society can't afford to have shooters roaming around judging innocence for themselves.

No one is asking you to feel "sadness." This writer is asking you to consider that the shooting was wrong.

29 posted on 06/01/2009 6:20:03 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: MrB
Murder is defined as killing the innocent.

__________________________________________

Well, that's just not so. Murder is the taking of any life not in self-defense (justifiable homicide) and with malice afore thought.

30 posted on 06/01/2009 6:21:32 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: tcg

Agreed, but I’m not going to allow them to blame me for it. I will not be put on the defensive, that is exactly what they want. They will milk the situation as much as possible.


31 posted on 06/01/2009 6:21:41 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: MrB
He was?

He was operating under the protection of a corrupt political, judicial, and law enforcement system, but not "within the law".

That's a slippery slope. Who defines this law? There's a reason that America was meant to be a country of "laws not men".

The minute you allow people to go freely off the reservation is the minute you start heading towards fascism.

32 posted on 06/01/2009 6:22:33 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: MrB

Exactly. I don’t defend or justify vigilantism. But let’s be clear. This particular abortionist was not operating within the law. The law clearly prohibits late term abortions, except to save the life of the mother. Tiller clearly skirted that law with the help of Gov. Sebelius, who refused to demand that he provide records to account for the reasons for his late term abortions.


33 posted on 06/01/2009 6:22:46 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: MrB
I believe it is what allowed good, Christian men to take up arms against "their own nation", (we WERE British subjects until ... ).

The shot heard 'round the world was fired by a minuteman asgainst his own BATF (figuratively speaking, of cours) as they came up his driveway to take his guns .... and didn't have a warrant.

What's a man to do?

34 posted on 06/01/2009 6:23:09 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: 1rudeboy
What I find funny is ostensible moral absolutists using moral relativism to make a point. (I haven’t been reading these threads much, though).
Ding ding ding.
35 posted on 06/01/2009 6:23:16 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: ketsu

I don’t believe you have followed the Tiller case very closely, or you’d see this was not a “slippery slope”.

The cases against Tiller were clear, the evidence was clear,

the prosecutors were corrupt.


36 posted on 06/01/2009 6:24:08 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: MrB

Certainly, the laws do not apply to the left.

It’s a pathetic example to set for our country.

Eventually someone thinks they can or should take the law into their own hands.

Very dangerous.


37 posted on 06/01/2009 6:25:10 AM PDT by Carley (OBAMA IS A MALEVOLENT FORCE IN THE WORLD)
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To: icwhatudo
Exactly!

Simply taking a moral high ground will not defeat the enemy.

In this modern culture war, the Left has literally drawn First Blood.

38 posted on 06/01/2009 6:25:21 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: knarf

If the left were smarter,
they’d allow at least a semblance of a method of redress,

but no, they can’t even allow dissent, and dissenters must be destroyed in order to satisfy the left’s desire for total dominance of the human will.


39 posted on 06/01/2009 6:25:58 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Turbo Pig
"The killer is responsible for his actions; the state is culpable in creating the environment."

The state helped create an environment in which this man would kill? I thought we expected people to make choice and then hold them accountable for those choices without regard to those sorts of things.

Haven't we been rejecting these sorts of arguments for years when they come from leftists. e.g. "Yes your honor he DID rape that woman and saw off her head but he came from a very bad home life, daddy never loved him, he was pressured at work, he had a bad headache that day........" etc.
40 posted on 06/01/2009 6:26:04 AM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: soccermom
Exactly. I don’t defend or justify vigilantism. But let’s be clear. This particular abortionist was not operating within the law. The law clearly prohibits late term abortions, except to save the life of the mother. Tiller clearly skirted that law with the help of Gov. Sebelius, who refused to demand that he provide records to account for the reasons for his late term abortions.
Tiller was sued and judged by his peers for his actions. You can say he found a loophole, fine. But that doesn't justify an extra-judicial killing.
41 posted on 06/01/2009 6:26:14 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: TomOnTheRun

ding ding ding.


42 posted on 06/01/2009 6:27:13 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: MrB
" but no, they can’t even allow dissent, and dissenters must be destroyed in order to satisfy the left’s desire for total dominance of the human will."

unless .............

43 posted on 06/01/2009 6:28:20 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: TomOnTheRun

Perhaps this man DID decide to take justice in his own hands, as it had been thwarted in all other venues, and accepted the consequences for doing so, but did so with a clear conscience...

we don’t have any statements yet.


44 posted on 06/01/2009 6:28:34 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: ketsu
I'm going to need more than a few drinks to think this out: logically, if one is to claim that the murder of this doctor is justified because of a higher law, then why should one expect the murderer to be "absolved" (too early to think of a more accurate word) by the law?

One should claim the protection of the higher law, yes?

45 posted on 06/01/2009 6:29:29 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: ketsu

I think you’re missing the point. We’re not saying Tiller was doing something pro-lifers consider to be murder, even if it is legal. We’re saying what Tiller did WAS illegal. The Partial Birth Abortion ban prohibits late term abortions, except to save the life of the mother. Tiller was in violation of that law. Now, I’m not saying Tiller’s murderer had a right to be a vigilante. But it is important to note the distinction between what Tiller was doing — in skirting the law against late term abortions — and what other abortionists are doing, clearly within the letter of the law.


46 posted on 06/01/2009 6:29:45 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: ketsu
"But that doesn't justify an extra-judicial killing."..

..

But would not HILLARY say:--- If it saves just one child?

/sarc

47 posted on 06/01/2009 6:30:27 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: MrB

Agreed.


48 posted on 06/01/2009 6:30:37 AM PDT by Leg Olam (TOP SECRET! Os plan, 1 invade Poland 2 annex Sudetenland...)
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To: MrB
Perhaps this man DID decide to take justice in his own hands, as it had been thwarted in all other venues, and accepted the consequences for doing so, but did so with a clear conscience...

we don’t have any statements yet.

Wait until liberals start shooting CEOs and talk show hosts. You *really* don't want to go there.
49 posted on 06/01/2009 6:31:36 AM PDT by ketsu (ItÂ’s not a campaign. ItÂ’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: ketsu

I agree. I don’t believe in vigilantism. But I do think it is important to note the distinction between someone who is clearly skirting the law and getting away with it — as Tiller was — and other abortionists who, although we condemn their behavior, are well within the law.


50 posted on 06/01/2009 6:32:42 AM PDT by soccermom
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