Skip to comments.ABORTIONS WITH BAPTISM: WITCHITA MURDER REVEALS CHRISTLESS CHRISTIANITY
Posted on 06/01/2009 7:02:51 PM PDT by Tamar Rush
ABORTIONS WITH BAPTISM: WITCHITA MURDER REVEALS CHRISTLESS CHRISTIANITY
Dr. Paul L. Williams June 1st, 2009
Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done? Proverbs 24: 11-12
"We have some experience with late terminations... about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years."
Dr. George Tillman, 1995 a speech given by George R. Tiller at the National Abortion Federation Annual Meeting on April 2-4, 1995 in New Orleans, LA
On Sunday morning, May 31, Dr. George Tiller, 67, was gunned down and killed in the foyer of the Reformation Lutheran Church at the close of the 10 a.m. service.
The incident has raised questions not only about the killer but also about Dr. Tillers presence in a Christian church.
Tiller was Americas most notorious abortionist, who, by his own count, performed over 60,000 abortions. Over 800 of his surgical procedures were performed on women during the final trimester of their pregnancy.
To perform such late term abortions, Tiller developed a means by guiding a long needle through the mothers abdomen in order to inject a drug called Digoxin within the babys heart. Some of the babies were not killed instantly but died several days later in hotel rooms near the clinic.
Some might argue that Tiller performed these procedures because he did not believe that a fetus represented a human being. But Tiller appeared to be fully aware that he was committing mass murder, since he offered to perform funeral services and even baptisms for the babies he killed. The doctor believed that such rituals aided in the healing process of his female clients.
To complicate matters, Tiller was an esteemed member of the Lutheran congregation, where his wife - - Jeanne Elizabeth (Guenther) sang in the choir. In 2005, Jeanne cut a record of her favorite songs. The album contains her rendition of The Lords Prayer.
In the wake of the killing, the Reverend Lowell Michelson and the Reverend Kristin Neitzel, the pastors of the Reformation Lutheran Church, issued this statement: Members of Reformation Lutheran Church have been deeply affected by this tragedy. To address their needs, we are assembling a team of crisis intervention specialists. In this time of uncertainty, we stand firm in the promises of Jesus Christ: forgiveness, hope, love, and new life, even from death. We pray for healing and peace to be restored. We offer our thanks for the many prayers of support from across the country. Your words of encouragement are a blessing to the people of Reformation Lutheran Church and Wichita.
And so the members of the Wichita congregation remain so distressed over the death of Americas #1 baby killer that they require the services of crisis intervention specialists.
They and the two ministers also require an introduction to basic religious doctrine.
The Didache or The Teaching of the Apostles, one of the oldest Christian documents (circa 120 A.D.) contains the following injunctions against abortion and infanticide (both of which were common practice in pagan Rome): You shall not kill an unborn child or murder a newborn infant. This equation of abortion with homicide was upheld by Tertullian, the father of Latin theology. In his treatise On the Veiling of Virgins (206 A.D.), this Church father railed against women who conceal their sinful failures by committing homicide by means of procured abortions. In 250 A.D., St. Cyprian maintained that abortion represented a crime far worse than parricide.
By the time of the Church Council of Elvira in Spain (305 A.D.), abortion was judged to be so grave an offense that a woman who purposefully destroyed a child in her womb, when the child was conceived by an act of premarital fornication or adultery, was held to be guilty of a sin that merited double damnation.
This teaching was upheld throughout the two millennia of Christian history. Martin Luther, in fact, refused to sanction abortion even when the life of the mother was at stake. In Von Ebelichen Lieben, he wrote: If they become tired or even die - - that does not matter, let the woman die in childbirth.
Of course, such teachings are lost to modern mainline Christians, most notably, the members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Tillers denomination, which fails to see the distinction between the sacred teachings of tradition and the demands of the godless spirit of the age. This ersatz religious organization, which sees no relationship between Islam and terrorism, simultaneously voiced its support for abortion rights while condemning the death penalty.
I confess that I did not even flinch when I heard this news.
It is difficult to think that this scumbag’s life was worth more that the over 60,000 children he murdered.
This is what I tell my 2nd grade Sunday school class “going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger”.
I have a hard time believing, based on what he did for a living, he was right with God when his time came.
The people in that Lutheran church are hideously confused.
I honestly believe that anyone calling themselves “Christian” who would stand by and allow a member of their own church be an active participant in infanticide as this “church” did, is not a Church that God recognizes as His.
At the bare best, this “Reformation Lutheran Church” is guilty of being as the church at Thyatira (Revelation 3). And I am inclined to think much worse - such as the synagogue of Satan as described in Revelation 3... “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;”.
CHRISTIAN is not an adjective. It is an active noun.
Either you is ‘a Christ-like one’ or you is not. And to be a Christ-like one means you live His life.
No where do I find Jesus Christ performing an abortion, but I do find Him healing a woman with a blood disease, a blind man, ten lepers, a demonic man, an official’s child, another man’s servant . . . among many others.
WWJD? Jesus would not have killed Dr Tiller, but would have patiently waited for him to repent . . . just as He waited for “Jane Roe” and still waits for many others. Now, Dr Tiller will not get the chance to change his mind.
From the little I’ve heard, it appears that the LEFT wing Media is trying to make the Shooter out to be some “religious nut” who had mental health issues. I think someone classed him as a “domestic terrorist.”
Somehow . . . letters to the editor? . . . we need to counter that tag with something verifiable. To my knowledge he was NOT a member of this forum or of any other Conservative group.
What is the difference between assassinating Hitler and assassinating this man? 60,000 versus 6,000,000? that is the only difference that I can see.
Vengeance is the Lord’s. Yes it is. One death or six million, is the same. Life is precious, even the life of the monster who’s wife sings in the choir. What a screwed up family that must be.
Something tells me this church sect was about as traditional Lutheran as Westboro is traditional Baptist. Look up the various sects. Not all Lutheran Churches have blood of the innocents on their hands. This obviously is a very liberal sect just as some liberal sects are hidden even in the Roman Catholic or Baptist Churches.
The minister and Board of this church were only too happy to take Tiller’s money every week, and to reward him with a position as an usher.
Imagine the hands that gave you your bulletin each week being bathed in the blood of viable infants that he murdered.
What kind of “church” is this, that would not confront this evil?
I would go so far as to say they are damned.
From a noted Lutheran Scholar from 1973:
This church gave evil a place of honor. This church not only did not confront evil, it celebrated it.
"He who would harm a child, better to have a millstone hung around his neck and cast into the sea."
Amazing, isn't it? They let pretty much anyone in the door except The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
The Pastor and Pastorette have something special to look forward to:shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachNAsbU 2 Peter 2:1 .... just as there will also be false teachers
among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies,
even denying the Master who bought them, bringing
swift destruction upon themselves.
There. Fixed it. Now it is completely understandable.
Worse that that...Leaders are held to a higher standard than the lay members and will receive a harsher penalty for scattering the sheep.
The rot starts at the top doesn't it.
There. Fixed it. Now it is completely understandable.
The incident has raised questions not only about the killer but also about Dr. Tillers presence in a
Christian church. Satanic cult"
There. Fixed it. Now it is completely understandable.
The leadership of tiller's church or any other church
Amen to that ! shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
that teaches the torture and murder of innocent children
are taking their congregations on the wide road to destruction.
Psalm 146:3 Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
The leadership of tiller's church or any other church
Though we can’t know the future, God knows everything at all times.
He would not let someone go to the hereafter if there were a chance at some time during his natural life that he would have accepted Christ and repented.
Simple and to the point.
And, I might add, there is no way to be “liberal” and Christian. Liberalism by its very belief system is a “friend of the world”, which is in enmity to God.
You cannot serve the two masters of worldliness and Christ.
The art of surgery is an attempt to heal an illness or to repair an injury or defect.
Abortion is a murderous assault on an unborn person.
Jesus doesn't wait forever ... Tiller's life was ended suddenly by a man with a gun. Yours or mine could be ended just as suddenly by getting crosswise with a Kenworth, while driving home from work.
Can anyone think of a reason that someone would get a “late term” abortion (rather than a 1st trimester abortion)
other than COERCION?
Some folks find out that their baby has some defect (Down Syndrome, for example), and decide to kill him.
I thought Down’s was detectable before 26 weeks.
There are synods of the Lutheran church that are conservative and faithful - not all of us are looney liberals. Thank you for the kind invitation, and I do not want to start a flame war, but I stand behind the reasons for the reformation.
Low self esteem?
I'd have to look it up. That sounds right, though.
Couple of interesting points I've thought since our conversation the other day:
1) From seeing what Martin Luther's personal views on abortion were on this thread, it's clear that the Reformation Lutheran Church in Witchia, Kansas wasn't following their namesake founder's views when they allowed an unrepentant abortionist to have a leadership role in their church. So yes, in that particular case, a Lutheran church is not following Lutherism.
2) From the comments I've seen on this board, it appears there are alot of conservative, pro-life freepers who are members of the ELCA. It's wrong to paint the entire denomination as liberal and un-Christian (though certainly I'd make that case with the particular congregation that Tiller attended). It seem the ELCA didn't even exist prior to 1988, so alot of the old time Lutherans weren't "raised" in that denomination at all. Unfortunately, many are probably in the same situation Conservativegreatgrandma mentioned, being from a conservative congregation that was absorbed into the ELCA following a merger belong their control. I understand the reasons for wanting to leave the ELCA for the LCMS, but I can also see there are conservatives trying to work within the ELCA to move them to the right, and we ought to respect that. I still don't think the ELCA is as misguided as say, the Unitarian Universalism Church.
3) As a Catholic, I don't have a problem at all with freepers saying the Reformation was important and that Luther was right. That's not a flame. Of course the Lutherans on FreeRepublic are going to claim that, otherwise you guys wouldn't be Lutheranisms! Furthermore, I think you'll find most Catholics would agree with some of issues Luther had the time. There is no getting around the fact that the Catholic church had some corruption problems in that era and the selling of indulgences was wrong (of course the Catholic church today hasn't done any "money-for-indulences" in several hundred years). Of course we're not going to agree with Luther's entire agenda (otherwise we'd convert to Lutheranism!) but Luther's actions DID bring those problems to the attention of the grassroots lay Christians and not only resulted in Protestantism, but resulted in alot of needed changes to the Catholic church. Personally I think Lutheranism can make much more of a case for its existence than Anglicanism (many of the Episocipian freepers won't be too happy with me because I view their denomination as only existing so some fat lecherous King could divorce his wife... and I agree on the point that if they don't like gay bishops and all they should just rejoin the Catholic church since their church is basically Catholic lite)
4) It's true the Catholic church had doctrinal unity no matter what "faction" of Catholicism you join (makes it easier for us to formally change rites or join a new congregation), and even those schematic churches no longer in communion with Rome (like Mel Gibson's church) pretty much stick with 2000 years of tradition and decry abortion and homosexuality as wrong. However, it's also true that Christian groups that retain overall solid doctrines on these issues, particularly Catholics and South Baptists, never-the-less have some reengage ministers and bishops in their church preaching otherwise. In short, what good is doctrinal unity if you won't enforce it? I think many Catholics on this board just as appalled when a "Catholic" university gave Obama an honorary degree and let him speak about abortion. And as a Catholic I felt just as embarrassed as the Lutherans did with Tiller, when the whole world learned that a "Catholic" priest in Chicago is buddies with Rev. Wright and tells his parishes that all white people are scum and encourages everyone in his congregation to vote for Obama. That heretical "church" isn't teaching anything remotely "Catholic" and it's priest should be excommunicated. But will the Roman Catholic leadership in Chicago that has jurisdiction over the church do anything? No. They gave him a slap on the writ, but still allow that heretic to use Catholic church property to spew his hatred. The solution for me was simple, I simply joined a Catholic church that was not under the authority of the Roman Catholic archdiocese of Chicago. However, the fact that "Father" Pfeleger is still a priest in good standing is enormously embarrassing to all Catholics.
The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod earlier excommunicated Dr. Tiller. He then went to the very liberal ELCA.
Regarding your second, well-articulated point:
Thank you for noticing. We need your prayers.
Veni, Sanctae Spiritus!
Do not lump us all together. My congregation in Georgia is quite conservative. We may not be members of the ELCA for much longer.
I was not aware of that. Thanks for the information.
ELCA has a dominant presence in the US, especially on the east coast.
I had not seen that map. Bookmarked and copied.
Thanks for the ping. Looks like the state run media (SRM) is trying to blame Christianity for this killing. I was wondering how long it would take for this type of attack.
Teachings of human tradition should not be held as sacred. Scripture is sacred and God's teaching on the sanctity of life is all we need to counter the abortion mongers.
What a sick "doctor" Tiller must have been. Aware he was committing mass murder? He had no conscience at all, or he would have quit. Doctors should prolong lives, not take lives.
This ersatz religious organization, which sees no relationship between Islam and terrorism, simultaneously voiced its support for abortion rights while condemning the death penalty.
Well, just explain something to me. Don't both abortion and the death penalty end a life? The only difference is that the person on death row is there for a heinous crime. The baby was totally innocent.