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Terrorism in Wichita
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 6/2/9 | Debra J. Saunders

Posted on 06/02/2009 8:01:29 AM PDT by SmithL

If law enforcement officials believe they can prove that Scott Roeder is guilty of Sunday's shooting death of abortion doctor George Tiller at the Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, Kan., then they should work to put him away for life. Roeder is being held on first-degree murder and two counts of aggravated assault.

In killing Tiller, the gunman did more than commit one violent act that ended a man's life. The slaying also served to intimidate abortion providers - and perhaps chase some professionals out of the practice altogether. Thus by use of violence, the shooter set out to achieve that which he could not achieve through the democratic political process.

Boulder, Colo., abortion doctor Warren Hern called the killing "a political assassination in a historic pattern of anti-abortion political violence. It was terrorism," according to the Associated Press.

Unfortunately, the National Right to Life Committee issued a statement that lacked Hern's clarity and outrage. The statement extended sympathy to Tiller's family, then condemned "any such acts of violence regardless of motivation. The pro-life movement works to protect the right to life and increase respect for human life. The unlawful use of violence is directly contrary to that goal."

I understand that anti-abortion activists considered Tiller's practice of late-term abortions to be heinous in and of itself - and they had a moral argument. But that moral argument is undermined by the shooting of a doctor - in a church, of all places.

And it doesn't help when Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist, tells reporters, "George Tiller was a mass murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric...

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: murder; tiller; wichita
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Debra is exactly right.
1 posted on 06/02/2009 8:01:29 AM PDT by SmithL
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The timing could not be worse for the anti-abortion movement. Just last month, the Gallup Poll reported that 51 percent of Americans now call themselves pro-life rather than pro-choice on the issue of abortion.
People who are really Pro-Life do not commit or condone murder. Worse still, is that this murder will hurt the Pro-Life movement.
2 posted on 06/02/2009 8:03:07 AM PDT by SmithL (The Golden State demands all of your gold)
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To: SmithL
Terrorism?

I guess this means we can say at least one act of terrorism happened in the USA under 0bama's watch.

3 posted on 06/02/2009 8:03:22 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: SmithL

When the abortionist was alive, he should have been given the death penalty for participating in the killing of the 50 million unborn that this country has condoned. And that death sentence, should have been carried out by the “state” (not individuals) in having laws that outlaw the killing of the unborn.

And in addition, the guy who did the shooting, should also be given the death penalty, likewise by the state, for participating in the long-standing practice of murder, which God has condemned, just like abortion, from the beginning.


4 posted on 06/02/2009 8:04:39 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: SmithL
Suspect pleads not guilty in soldier's death By NOAH TRISTER [AP]A Muslim convert accused of killing a soldier in a "political and religious" attack on a military recruiting center pleaded not guilty Tuesday to a capital murder charge and was ordered held without bail.

What's Deb got to say about that?

5 posted on 06/02/2009 8:04:40 AM PDT by ex91B10 (The only response now is mass armed resistance.)
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To: SmithL

“Thus by use of violence, the shooter set out to achieve that which he could not achieve through the democratic political process.”

These being the same people who celebrate every bomb blast in Tel Aviv ....


6 posted on 06/02/2009 8:04:54 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: SmithL
She may be right. But there has been far too much ink spilt on this low lifer and far too little spilt on William Long who also suffered a violent, politcally motivated death at about the same time as Tiller.
7 posted on 06/02/2009 8:05:31 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: pnh102
I guess this means we can say at least one act of terrorism happened in the USA under 0bama's watch.

...so this would be a domestic contingency operation?
8 posted on 06/02/2009 8:06:11 AM PDT by farmer18th (If you preach "too big to let fail," you're also preaching "too small to let succeed.")
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To: pnh102
I guess this means we can say at least one act of terrorism happened in the USA under 0bama's watch.

LOL. San Francisco Chronicle hoist by their own petard.

9 posted on 06/02/2009 8:06:27 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 134 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: SmithL

Randall Terry has been shooting people?


10 posted on 06/02/2009 8:07:16 AM PDT by kenth
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To: SmithL
And it doesn't help when Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist, tells reporters, "George Tiller was a mass murderer.

What's wrong with that statement? I guess, since the law doesn't see fit to define "shredding a live baby with a dull knife" as "murder" then technically, Tiller was not a "murderer". Technically.

He was, undeniably, by his own proud assertion, a serial killer. And no possible justification exists for any of his killings. We should NOT hesitate to name him or his comrades in baby-killing as the cowardly serial killers that they are.

11 posted on 06/02/2009 8:08:22 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: mgc1122
“Thus by use of violence, the shooter set out to achieve that which he could not achieve through the democratic political process.”

Thus by use of the Supreme Court, liberal fascists achieved that which they could not achieve through the democratic political process.

12 posted on 06/02/2009 8:09:28 AM PDT by gorilla_warrior (Liberal fascism is a hate crime we can no longer tolerate)
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To: SmithL
The terrorism was committed by Tiller. Tens of thousands of butcherd, litrally butchered, bloody children under the color of law (sort of like Nazi Germany, eh?)

What the killer did was clearly illegal...but we may one day look back and see that these people, like John Brown, who also committd a crime and was put to death for it, were nonetheless on the right side of history.

Perhaps we need to stop worrying as much about public opinion, and start forthightly worrying more about what is right...and forthrightly expose abortion for the abject genocide it is, with no room for tolernce.

THE GRUESOME TRUTH OF THE ABORTION HOLOCAUST & THE DEATH OF DR. TILLER [Warning: A graphic photo of death & dismemberment]

“It is the grimmest of ironies that one of the most savage, barbaric acts of evil in history began in one of the most modernized societies of its time, where so many markers of human progress became tools of human depravity: science that can heal, used to kill; education that can enlighten, used to rationalize away basic moral impulses; the bureaucracy that sustains modern life, used as the machinery of mass death, a ruthless, chillingly efficient system where many were responsible for the killing, but few got actual blood on their hands.”–Barack Obama April 24, 2009, Holocaust Remebernce Day, Chicago Sun Times.

13 posted on 06/02/2009 8:09:32 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: mgc1122
could not achieve through the democratic political process

That process was so corrupted that Roeder probably just gave up on it. If Roeder hadn't done this, someone else eventually would have, as the non-violent means of addressing this wrong were all corrupted to the point of not being available.

14 posted on 06/02/2009 8:10:44 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: mgc1122

I haven’t been following Tiller, but does his death mean that one or more babies will not be aborted?


15 posted on 06/02/2009 8:11:00 AM PDT by balls
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To: SmithL

Right about what? Her column is muddle . . . and I’m being kind with that label.

She critiques the National Right to Life Committee for their statement, but their statement is in agreement with her. How lame is that?


16 posted on 06/02/2009 8:12:04 AM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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To: SmithL
No, I believe Ms. Saunders is dead wrong in some respects. To wit:

I understand that anti-abortion activists considered Tiller's practice of late-term abortions to be heinous in and of itself - and they had a moral argument. But that moral argument is undermined by the shooting of a doctor - in a church, of all places.

How does the immediately condemned act of one individual reflect poorly - or at all - on the moral argument prsented by those that condemned the murder? The Unabomber was not deemed to have undermined the argument of environmentalists - he was labeled as a loony.

Guilt by association is dead wrong.

17 posted on 06/02/2009 8:12:38 AM PDT by MortMan (Power without responsibility-the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages. - Rudyard Kipling)
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To: Star Traveler

The former governor Sillyass of Kansas who now works for Bama was a supporter of Tiller.


18 posted on 06/02/2009 8:12:42 AM PDT by Piquaboy (Military veteran of 22 years in Navy, Air Force, and Army.)
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To: SmithL

I have a question.....Tiller was shot in a Church....why aren’t they protecting Churches?


19 posted on 06/02/2009 8:13:51 AM PDT by goodnesswins (WE have a REPUBLIC.....IF we can KEEP IT!!!)
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To: gorilla_warrior

Exactly so. If one wants to look for a root cause of this ongoing turmoil and division, look to the Supreme Court and the failure of the U.S Senate to do its constitutionally-mandated job.


20 posted on 06/02/2009 8:14:15 AM PDT by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Piquaboy

Well, I want to see laws changed to outlaw abortion, and give the death penalty to all that participate in abortion — those that answer the phone, those that file paperwork, those that have the abortion, and then those who do the abortions...


21 posted on 06/02/2009 8:15:21 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: balls

“I haven’t been following Tiller, but does his death mean that one or more babies will not be aborted?”

I can’t say with any certainty one way or the other, but his death does mean he won’t be doing any of them.


22 posted on 06/02/2009 8:15:42 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: SmithL
Try this one on size for 'terrorism':

At least one baby has survived an attempted abortion at Tiller's clinic. "Baby Sarah" survived and was later adopted. She lived a few short years. During the attempted abortion, Baby Sarah turned away from the needle. So instead of injecting the lethal drug into Baby Sarah's heart, Tiller injected it into the side of her head. This left her alive but blind.

The trauma caused her mother to deliver early. Baby Sarah was born in the parking lot at Wesley Medical Center where hospital staff left her to die. A day later she was still alive. A hospital employee took pity on her, and she was adopted a few hours later by the Brown family.

Baby Sarah died a few years later due to complications caused by the attempted abortion.



How's that for 'terrorism'?


23 posted on 06/02/2009 8:15:59 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (When you put Democrats in charge, stupid things happen)
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To: SmithL
“”I understand that anti-abortion activists considered Tiller's practice of late-term abortions to be heinous in and of itself - and they had a moral argument. But that moral argument is undermined by the shooting of a doctor - in a church, of all places. “”

That is quite a jump, Debra.

The moral argument is not undermined by the act of one person. Nor does that act by one person tarnish the the goodness of so many people.

It appears, somewhat, that people care less about the doctor and his family than in their incessant and ravenous attack of people who have a moral problem with abortion. Looking across the responses, it sometimes appears as if the aborta-marketers were relieved and felt the killing was "just what was needed" to break the tide towards life...

24 posted on 06/02/2009 8:19:34 AM PDT by Voter62vb
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To: SmithL
The slaying also served to intimidate abortion providers - and perhaps chase some professionals out of the practice altogether. Thus by use of violence, the shooter set out to achieve that which he could not achieve through the democratic political process.

What he did was wrong. However, this is what happens when you are precluded from achieving things through the democratic process. If the courts hadn't taken this issue out of the hands of the people, there would be little need for any crazy people to feel they were powerless and needed to resort to violence.

Also, until we actually see an abortion provider quit, the whole notion of intimidation is moot. Of course, there are millions of Americans who won't walk the streets at night because of gang violence, so maybe if we are worried about intimidation we should put federal marshalls there, where the real problem is, rather than guarding hundreds of abortion clinics where there has been one killing in the past 3 years (oh, except the killing was in church, not at the clinic).

25 posted on 06/02/2009 8:20:55 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: mgc1122

“...but his death does mean he won’t be doing any of them.”

That point seems to be lost in the debate. Tiller’s killer probably does believe that God will take care of punishing Tiller, but the “law” in this country did nothing to stop the partial birth abortions Tiller seemed so proud of performing. So now he has been stopped from performing them.


26 posted on 06/02/2009 8:22:42 AM PDT by Let's Roll (Stop paying ACORN to destroy America! Cut off their government funding!)
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To: farmer18th

Two, because the attack on the recruiting station was also an act of terrorism meant to intimidate people and keep them from signing up for the military.


27 posted on 06/02/2009 8:22:58 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: balls

Probably, because he was the one of the few that was politically well-connected enough to perform illegal abortions and get away with it.


28 posted on 06/02/2009 8:24:15 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

SFC on the AR recuitment shooting

....crickets chirping

....”nothing to see see here folks, no radical Islam here. Move along, move along.”


29 posted on 06/02/2009 8:24:54 AM PDT by ak267
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To: Star Traveler

Is abortion murder or is it not? Will you do nothing if you happen upon a psychopath who is stabbing a baby in the skull and vacuuming his brains out? Are you going to stand by and watch him do it again? Will you call the cops, knowing that they will refuse to answer the call? Will you run to a black-robed tyrant judge, knowing that you will get nothing pseudo-intellectual equivocating? Will you go to the voting booth, and cast your vote for one of two lying thieves? All of this pious condemnation of violence is just a pathetic excuse for cowardice.


30 posted on 06/02/2009 8:26:13 AM PDT by gorilla_warrior (Liberal fascism is a hate crime we can no longer tolerate)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

All the next guy has to do is found out who and how much to bribe, and he’ll be just as “in” as Tiller was.

Of course, in order to get that much cash, he’ll have to up his “throughput” at the “clinic”.


31 posted on 06/02/2009 8:27:31 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: gorilla_warrior

Henry, is that you?
(tagline)


32 posted on 06/02/2009 8:28:10 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: gorilla_warrior

Both the abortionist and the shooter are guilty of murder.

And, all the people who help in those clinics are guilty of murder. Those who answer the phones, who file paperwork, who talk to the women who come in, and so on..., are guilty of murder.

And the women who come in for abortion are guilty of murder...

Now, all that has to be done is for the U.S. to get the laws straightened out and convict all those people of murder.


33 posted on 06/02/2009 8:29:39 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: MortMan

The left and right are measured by different standards.

Right or wrong, fair or not, that’s the way it is.


34 posted on 06/02/2009 8:29:44 AM PDT by SmithL (The Golden State demands all of your gold)
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To: SmithL
"I understand that anti-abortion activists considered Tiller's practice of late-term abortions to be heinous in and of itself - and they had a moral argument. But that moral argument is undermined by the shooting of a doctor - in a church, of all places."

The moral argument is unconnected to the murder. Two wrongs do not make a right. The moral argument stands and the justified condemnation of Tiller's murder does not negate the moral argument against abortion.

35 posted on 06/02/2009 8:30:26 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: gorilla_warrior

Death is a highly under rated motivator


36 posted on 06/02/2009 8:31:39 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . The boy's war in Detriot has already cost more then the war in Iraq.)
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To: SmithL
Thus by use of violence, the shooter set out to achieve that which he could not achieve through the democratic political process.

She is right that this killer should go to prison for life with no possibility of parole (or get the death penalty), but she's wrong on this one point. The murderer set out to achieve that which he could not achieve over the undemocratic and unconstitutional decree of the Supreme Court ruling in Roe v. Wade and related cases. This murder is still wrong, unforgivably evil, and an inappropriate tactic for achieving political objectives, but democracy has nothing to do with our current abortion situation.

37 posted on 06/02/2009 8:31:54 AM PDT by TurtleUp (So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause!)
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To: SmithL

They’re more concerned about what happens to this guy than the terrorists who kill hundreds held at Guantanamo.

Speaks volumes about their character, or more appropriately, their lack of it.


38 posted on 06/02/2009 8:32:23 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (http://ccwsaveslives.blogspot.com/)
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To: Let's Roll

An article in the Washington Times on October 27,2003 reported that the National Coalition of Abortion Providers said that, in 1997, there were approximately 3,000-5,000 partial-birth abortions annually.

AGI reports found that 2,200 were performed in the year 2000.

Seems to be already trending down. Infanticide, no matter how much perfume is sprayed, is tough to sell.


39 posted on 06/02/2009 8:33:04 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: TurtleUp

All the political and democratic remedies were tried.
The governor and the AG just simply ignored these laws and helped Tiller avoid prosecution for their violation.


40 posted on 06/02/2009 8:33:04 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: SmithL
Sure, but a little perspective here:
How many people were murdered in America between 12 midnight Saturday and 12 midnight Sunday?
Ever life is precious, not just Tillers. Every murder saddens me.
41 posted on 06/02/2009 8:36:01 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: mgc1122

Oh. What I meant, of course, was does his death mean that one or more babies will not be aborted by him? Was he still aborting babies? If so, I am personally very glad he is gone, however it happened. Is anybody on this thread not glad he is gone? (Let’s not get into how it happened.)


42 posted on 06/02/2009 8:43:08 AM PDT by balls
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To: balls
Is anybody on this thread not glad he is gone? (Let’s not get into how it happened.)

The two issues cannot be split. Murdering this "doctor", while he was in church and posed no immediate danger to others, was wrong.

43 posted on 06/02/2009 8:46:30 AM PDT by TurtleUp (So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause!)
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To: Star Traveler
Now, all that has to be done is for the U.S. to get the laws straightened out and convict all those people of murder.
Back again to the "nation of laws" argument. I cannot think of a better argument in support of my contention that we are not a nation of laws than the fact that this nation will not protect its most innocent and most vulnerable babies. Yes, please, let us get up off our backs, let us form a nation of laws, let us restore the Constitution, let us recognize the right to life. But please do not tell me that this illegitimate, irredeemable, irreformable liberal fascist plutocracy is a "nation of laws".
44 posted on 06/02/2009 8:47:46 AM PDT by gorilla_warrior (Metrosexual hairless RINOs for bipartisan-ness)
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To: TurtleUp

Let’s put aside the legal issue. Are you glad he is gone?


45 posted on 06/02/2009 8:49:02 AM PDT by balls
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To: gorilla_warrior

I’m not arguing one way or another that we’re a nation of laws.

I’m saying make the laws outlaw abortion and convict everyone involved in abortion of murder, from the secretary who answers the phone, to the abortionist, to the woman who has the abortion.

Then we will have this straightened out...


46 posted on 06/02/2009 8:50:17 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: SmithL

What standard says that pro-life groups who stand against this murder should share the blame for it?

Why should conservatives endorse such a standard?

When conservatives willingly shoulder the double standard as a mark of martyrdom, perhaps it is evidence of a political movement losing its mind.


47 posted on 06/02/2009 8:51:43 AM PDT by MortMan (Power without responsibility-the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages. - Rudyard Kipling)
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To: balls
Let’s put aside the legal issue. Are you glad he is gone?

My point is that we should not put aside the legal issue of murder in a discussion relating to the sanctity of life. We should not in our words or our actions suggest that murder is an acceptable means of achieving political ends (and this is a political end, since another "doctor" is taking over that grim practice). The killer deserves life without parole or death under the law; that's all that is worth commenting on in this situation.

48 posted on 06/02/2009 8:53:47 AM PDT by TurtleUp (So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause!)
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To: SmithL

Bull shiite.


49 posted on 06/02/2009 8:56:54 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: pnh102

This was not an act of terrorism, which should make it more terrifying for the practitionors of abortion.

Let me explain.

If this were part of a terror plot, the plotters can be tracted down, organizations dismantled, informants planted.

This was the act of a lone demented gunman. Politics aside, persons of fame or infamy are at much more risk from the lone crazy person that they are from an organized attack.

Because of politics, this will be labeled as terrorism and political and legal forces will be aligned against the pro-life movement. But to restate my point, this was the act of a lone deranged man, incarcerating every priest, preacher and christian in the country will not prevent similar acts in the future.


50 posted on 06/02/2009 8:59:28 AM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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