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Unexpectedly Vegetarian Animalsó-What Does it Mean?
AiG ^ | June 2, 2009 | Bodie Hodge, M.S.

Posted on 06/02/2009 5:35:46 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

In a world full of death and suffering, some creatures are known to be fierce carnivores (meat eaters). In fact, the perception of animals eating other animals is seen as normal in today’s secular, evolution-influenced society. But was it always like that?...

(Excerpt) Read more at answersingenesis.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: artbell; crackerhead; creation; evolution; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; magicdust; peta; puffdragon; science; sprinkyscience; wackytobacky
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1 posted on 06/02/2009 5:35:47 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
What does it mean? It means that some animals are vegetarians.
2 posted on 06/02/2009 5:37:50 PM PDT by svcw
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To: editor-surveyor; metmom; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; GourmetDan; MrB; valkyry1; DaveLoneRanger; ...

Ping!


3 posted on 06/02/2009 5:38:33 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: DouglasKC

Thought this might be of interest to you.


4 posted on 06/02/2009 5:38:48 PM PDT by DeLaine (Navy blue)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“animals eating other animals is seen as normal in today’s secular, evolution-influenced society”

PLUS that added benefit of camara’s and film showing that is the daily life of most animals - either birds, fish or mammals. I did not know a bear eating a fish was secular.


5 posted on 06/02/2009 5:39:19 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't have to say much.)
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To: svcw

No, it means that some predatory animals have once again become vegetarians ;o)


6 posted on 06/02/2009 5:39:24 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: svcw

>>What does it mean? It means that some animals are vegetarians.<<

No, silly. It means that there are eevil eevolutionist animals that eat plants while the wonderful meat-eating Created animals are Conservatives.


7 posted on 06/02/2009 5:40:20 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: svcw

ROTFLOL


8 posted on 06/02/2009 5:44:33 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Admittedly I did not read the article. But if I remember correctly even carnivores require more than meat and water to survive.

Atkins dieters are excluded from this post until they meet their goals.


9 posted on 06/02/2009 5:44:40 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: edcoil

It is normal in the same way that death and cancer are normal. We have an innate understanding that the world is not supposed to operate that way. Some have been trained out of this knowledge by various taxpayer funded Darwin indoctrination centers, but the majority of our population still feels that we are living in a paradise that has been lost.


10 posted on 06/02/2009 5:45:21 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: AZ .44 MAG
Read the article. Trust me, it's worth it. As it turns out, many predatory animals have *returned* to a vegetarian diet :o)
11 posted on 06/02/2009 5:46:57 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Unexpectedly Vegetarian Animals


12 posted on 06/02/2009 5:49:42 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: jiggyboy

Apparently he hasn’t made the switch yet :o)


13 posted on 06/02/2009 5:51:24 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Stupid hippy vegans!


14 posted on 06/02/2009 5:54:18 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (a competent small government conservative is good enough for government work)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Classic case of inferring WAY too much from one Biblical sentence fragment ...

SnakeDoc


15 posted on 06/02/2009 5:55:55 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("The night is darkest just before the dawn -- but I promise you, the dawn is coming." -- Harvey Dent)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I will read it tomorrow. Right now I’m taking inventory of and storing my ammunition so I only have time to read and respond to short posts.

BTW thanks for posting as much as you do, it’s good reading and fun to watch the evo’s try to defend their position(s). Sometimes they make sense, other times not so much.

My favorite of all their defenses is that creationists hate science. LOL! The scientific method is the best thing to happen to Mankind since the Fall IMHO. And it reinforces my faith.


16 posted on 06/02/2009 5:57:29 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
...carnivores (meat eaters).

Ahh. Saved me the trouble of going to the dictionary!

17 posted on 06/02/2009 5:58:45 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: GodGunsGuts

Dinotopia alert


18 posted on 06/02/2009 6:03:42 PM PDT by muleskinner ("You know the Germans always make good stuff')
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To: AZ .44 MAG
Here is one of the vegetarians...fascinating!


19 posted on 06/02/2009 6:07:37 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: SnakeDoctor

If there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned, then obviously there were no predators before they sinned either.


20 posted on 06/02/2009 6:10:08 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
At the beginning of creation, there was no death.

If that's the case, there could not have been reproduction either.

21 posted on 06/02/2009 6:10:59 PM PDT by fso301
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To: svcw; Eaker; Slings and Arrows; stainlessbanner; SunkenCiv
What does it mean? It means that some animals are vegetarians.

Herbivores and meatavores, or something like that.

22 posted on 06/02/2009 6:12:15 PM PDT by fanfan (Why did they bury Barry's past?)
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To: fso301

Are you counting sperm as being alive?


23 posted on 06/02/2009 6:13:59 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: fso301
At the beginning of creation, there was no death.
If that's the case, there could not have been reproduction either.

Why not?

24 posted on 06/02/2009 6:17:08 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Big IF. We’re talking assumptions on top of assumptions, wrapped inside of assumptions here. I’ve seen little Biblical evidence, aside from more mega-inferences, that animal death is the wages of human sin. Doesn’t make much sense really ... Adam sinned, so Lions eat antelopes? I don’t get it.

As for whether human death preceded sin — of course it didn’t, because the first humans sinned (before they died). The question of whether God created human death after Adam sinned, or whether God predestined human death knowing that Adam would sin is really a chicken-egg argument.

There is also a reasonable chance that the Bible is referring to spiritual death (separation from God), not physical death, in those passages. Maybe, maybe not.

My point is ... honestly, we don’t know. I don’t know. You don’t know. And, ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. So, why worry?

SnakeDoc


25 posted on 06/02/2009 6:18:44 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("The night is darkest just before the dawn -- but I promise you, the dawn is coming." -- Harvey Dent)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Isa. 11:7 says lions would eat straw under the Kingdom rule.

A restoration of Edenic conditions?

26 posted on 06/02/2009 6:35:18 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: AZ .44 MAG; GodGunsGuts
Why not?

Because if reproduction occured, you would soon have layers and layers of animals on top of other animals. If you have reproduction, you must also have death and decay in order to maintain balance.

27 posted on 06/02/2009 6:48:07 PM PDT by fso301
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To: GodGunsGuts

I think it means that God meant us to be vegetarians. Eating animals is a sign of the degeneration man has undergone.


28 posted on 06/02/2009 6:50:16 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: SnakeDoctor; DeLaine; GodGunsGuts
I’ve seen little Biblical evidence, aside from more mega-inferences, that animal death is the wages of human sin. Doesn’t make much sense really ... Adam sinned, so Lions eat antelopes? I don’t get it.

Thank you for the ping DeLaine.

I think a case can be made that sin indirectly caused animals to become meat eaters.

Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.

Before the fall plant life could have had all the nutrients needed for all animals to survive. After God cursed the earth it's possible that over time plants became less and less nutritious and animals, to survive, began eating each other.

29 posted on 06/02/2009 6:52:22 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: GodGunsGuts
No, it means that some predatory animals have once again become vegetarians ;o)

I think you misread the article.

30 posted on 06/02/2009 6:57:08 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts
Here is one of the vegetarians...fascinating!

Actually, not a vegetarian. Eats meat. Vegetarians don't eat meat.

31 posted on 06/02/2009 6:58:46 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts
If there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned, then obviously there were no predators before they sinned either.

Question: How do you know there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned?

32 posted on 06/02/2009 7:00:22 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: fanfan

Look, I’m an omnivore! Burger and fries!


33 posted on 06/02/2009 7:06:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: fso301
Because if reproduction occured, you would soon have layers and layers of animals on top of other animals. If you have reproduction, you must also have death and decay in order to maintain balance.

Not necessarily. What if the reproductive rate was held to a frequency necessary to maintain then current population levels? Or what if fertility was shut down completely? Why do you assume unlimited fecundity? Even evos maintain that systems can regulate themselves.

34 posted on 06/02/2009 7:09:14 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

The interesting thing is, we don’t know how long it was before they sinned.


35 posted on 06/02/2009 7:11:57 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: AZ .44 MAG
Not necessarily. What if the reproductive rate was held to a frequency necessary to maintain then current population levels?

Uh, that rate would have to be ZERO. ZERO equals NONE. Nada. No reproduction.

36 posted on 06/02/2009 7:16:23 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts

So? I’ve seen nature documentaries where a “vegetarian” hippopotamus starts chowing down on drowned wildebeest; indeed, taking it away from a crocodile.

But “suddenly carnivorous” animals don’t fit into the author’s worldview.


37 posted on 06/02/2009 7:18:51 PM PDT by denydenydeny ("I'm sure this goes against everything you've been taught, but right and wrong do exist"-Dr House)
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To: DouglasKC

Sure, its “possible”. And, I think you’re right that a “case can be made”. Plants “could have” been the only intended source of nutrition.

But, I think it is just as possible to make exactly the opposite case — that animals were, and are, unaffected by the curse of Adam, and that they are now as they were when created.

Biblically, I think both cases can be made — depending on how you interpret certain passages. Logically, I think the latter case holds more weight (particularly considering that predators appear to pre-date humans ... teeth marks on fossils, etc.). But, I cannot say definitively that it is true ... I wasn’t there.

That is precisely my point. It is all conjecture from a few Biblical sentence fragments that only refer tangentially to the subject of this conversation. We each came to our opinion based on our assumptions, not the text. The Bible is pretty vague on this subject.

And, it really doesn’t matter. The pre-sin existence of animal predation is not among the major (or minor) tenets of Christianity. It is a Biblical triviality — merely an interesting question to ask the Almighty when your number comes up.

SnakeDoc


38 posted on 06/02/2009 7:20:03 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("The night is darkest just before the dawn -- but I promise you, the dawn is coming." -- Harvey Dent)
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To: ColdWater

So how does that contradict my postulating a self regulating system? If no reproduction is needed then none occurs.

The only disagreement I see here is “why”.

Is it population pressure or God’s will? I say God’s will. What say you?


39 posted on 06/02/2009 7:26:23 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: svcw

It means - don’t you have anything useful to do?


40 posted on 06/02/2009 7:33:24 PM PDT by smalltownslick
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To: smalltownslick

So are you being testy, sarcastic, rude, funny - what?


41 posted on 06/02/2009 7:35:11 PM PDT by svcw
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To: AZ .44 MAG
Not necessarily. What if the reproductive rate was held to a frequency necessary to maintain then current population levels?

Maintaining population levels implies death. The article said at the beginning of creation there was no death. If there was no death, why would maintaining population levels be necessary?

Or what if fertility was shut down completely?

Then there would be no reproduction. If death existed without fertility, you would have extinction in short order.

Why do you assume unlimited fecundity? Even evos maintain that systems can regulate themselves.

true but death and decay are requirements for regulated systems. The article said at the beginning of creation, there was no death.

42 posted on 06/02/2009 7:46:42 PM PDT by fso301
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To: GodGunsGuts

ping


43 posted on 06/02/2009 7:54:58 PM PDT by Bellflower (The end of this age is near but the beginning of the next glorious one is coming!)
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To: svcw

Not sure - could be any of those, I suppose. I couldn’t quite believe this was serious - so many things to be concerned about, and anyone would worry whether an animal was vegetarian?? Geez, find something important to worry about.


44 posted on 06/02/2009 8:14:53 PM PDT by smalltownslick
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To: fso301
Not necessarily. What if the reproductive rate was held to a frequency necessary to maintain then current population levels?
Maintaining population levels implies death. The article said at the beginning of creation there was no death. If there was no death, why would maintaining population levels be necessary?

I admit that was a poor example. What I'm trying to convey is that if there was stasis before the Fall then most of the rules we see now didn't apply. If there was no death then there was obviously no need to regulate population levels since they would be the same at all times.

45 posted on 06/02/2009 8:31:21 PM PDT by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


46 posted on 06/02/2009 8:45:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: ColdWater

Some will snatch a dead fish from time to time, but overall they are almost completely vegetarian “birds of prey.” It just goes to show you can’t always judge a bird by its beak, a spider by its venom, or a lion by its fangs.


47 posted on 06/02/2009 8:52:55 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
The notion that animals that are carnivorous today have always been that way needs to be reevaluated when thinking back to creation. Originally, all animals were vegetarian; it was only after sin that death and suffering entered into the world—for animals as well as for humans. Animals that one might expect to be carnivorous but that easily survive without meat—like spiders and cats—offer a glimpse of what life could have been like originally. It also shows that these carnivorous animals could have easily have survived without meat in the original creation.

OK, who's buying? Step right up.

48 posted on 06/02/2009 9:23:20 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: GodGunsGuts
Some will snatch a dead fish from time to time, but overall they are almost completely vegetarian “birds of prey.”

Uh, vegetarians don't eat meat.

49 posted on 06/02/2009 9:35:32 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: AZ .44 MAG
The only disagreement I see here is “why”.

No. It was your "why not?"

50 posted on 06/02/2009 9:38:21 PM PDT by ColdWater
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