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Tiller's Killing: Necessary... But Unlawful
Commonweal Review Magazine ^ | June 3, 2009, 8:07 am | David Gibson

Posted on 06/03/2009 11:13:53 AM PDT by lewisglad

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To: metmom

Thanks for the ping!


51 posted on 06/03/2009 11:19:14 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Bush's recession, Obama's depression.)
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To: humblegunner; P-Marlowe
What about all the women who requested the abortions? Should they be killed too?

Only if you would have tried them for killing their babies 2 hours after birth.

It must be hard for the average American to get his/her mind around the concept of "viable." It means that there is absolutely nothing that would prevent this child from living outside the womb.

Let me ask you this: IF a child is a "baby" at the moment of birth, what was it one minute prior?

And IF you would prosecute a woman who killed her baby through an accomplice, one minute after its birth, why would you give a pass for killing it one minute before its birth?

52 posted on 06/04/2009 12:11:13 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: lewisglad
I'm curious.

How many pro-lifers here with these magnanimous views on Tiller's redemption are Catholic?

I just want to know exactly where I got off this bus?

btw...several freepers I know personally and who are Catholic have freepmailed me and told me they agree with me. They have no worry about Tiller's soul and nor is all life equally “precious”.

I don't know many serious southern SBC, COC, Pentecost or AOG that think like what I'm seeing there.

not trying to pick a fight btw....the goals are the same but i am definitely not movement pro-life...which has been somethignof a revelation to me frankly

53 posted on 06/04/2009 12:17:17 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama .....you are not my friend. You are an enemy of this nation and my culture and traditions)
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To: humblegunner; Eaker

why all this concern over the fate of folks who kill viable babies with hypotheticals?

if PBA was a crime in Kansas then the baby carriers (they ain’t mothers yall) should be charged.


54 posted on 06/04/2009 12:19:57 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama .....you are not my friend. You are an enemy of this nation and my culture and traditions)
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To: Melas

that is not true....there are only two other docs who publicly have said they do this sort of abortion...and yes that guy said he would come down (proffitt or something like that..DFU ran an expose on him yesterday)

which means he won’t be killing babies back where he came from...


55 posted on 06/04/2009 12:22:11 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama .....you are not my friend. You are an enemy of this nation and my culture and traditions)
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To: humblegunner; metmom
all aborted babies are not unwanted...most are just teen or career woman inconveniences..if born they will grow on the mom likely

besides they all deserve the chance at life

by your logic we should carpet bomb Bangladesh or Liberia to send all those poor kids straight to Christ...their life being so dismal here and all

56 posted on 06/04/2009 12:25:24 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama .....you are not my friend. You are an enemy of this nation and my culture and traditions)
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To: humblegunner

I do not think that is a correct assessment. In fact, It sounds like you are playing on the issue of salvation to make some kind of point to support late term abortion.

Please take a look at some photos of late term abortion and then come back.


57 posted on 06/04/2009 3:31:30 AM PDT by HollyB
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To: wardaddy
How many pro-lifers here with these magnanimous views on Tiller's redemption are Catholic?

In what respect? That they are praying for him still?

58 posted on 06/04/2009 6:50:17 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
yes, the compulsion to pray for a mass murderer strikes me as odd

and this snippet from another thread by Father Pavone.

“”But whatever the motives, we at Priests for Life continue to insist on a culture in which violence is never seen as the solution to any problem”

and what a lot of other movement freepers here have been saying....a lot of platitudes that equivocate every life and are pacifist sounding

maybe things have changed but there is a marked difference in all that and what I was taught as a lad and a Southern Baptist..

and this bugs me.....Christianity doesn't own this...why would anyone even half decent need Christianity to tell them aborting viable babies at late term is wrong?...my anti-abortion views are not based on my belief that Christ was God's son who came here to suffer and die on our behalf

anyhow...it's all been an eye opener, I never knew my own views were so divergent with movement folks here like they are.

I don't want to be like that but I sure appreciate their efforts...

59 posted on 06/04/2009 7:14:55 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama .....you are not my friend. You are an enemy of this nation and my culture and traditions)
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To: wardaddy

I suppose you’re correct in that the pool has been reduced by one.

It will be interesting to see who this man’s associates are when it comes up at trial.


60 posted on 06/04/2009 8:39:19 AM PDT by Melas
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To: wardaddy; humblegunner; metmom
all aborted babies are not unwanted...most are just teen or career woman inconveniences..if born they will grow on the mom likely

Adoption!

Young couple will spend 10's of thousands of dollars to adopt. They go outside this country to find babies because there are so few that are adopted here.

61 posted on 06/04/2009 8:52:18 AM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: metmom
What are you doing on FR?

Mostly causing you to ping your posse, lately.

62 posted on 06/04/2009 11:51:15 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: metmom
I pray for many people but praying for Tiller was never a thought in my head. I figure he will answer for what he did in this life just the way I will when the time comes.

I truly don't understand how he or the mothers could abort a baby. When I was younger I had friends that had no problems with abortions. Now some of them are big pro lifers . I wonder if its guilt. One of my friends who had quite a few abortions now can't get pregnant. I try to avoid her as much as I can. I hate hearing of her treatments & she refuses to adopt. It all gives me a headache.

63 posted on 06/04/2009 12:30:23 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (elected officials should be required to pass drug, alcohol & dementia testing)
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To: humblegunner; Eaker; metmom; xzins; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; cgk; Coleus; ...
An innocent child, aborted. Goes straight into the arms of Jesus, without sin. Right?

Are you seriously suggesting that a child is better off being aborted?

By this logic people should be killed the moment they are Baptized.

An unwanted child, raised without love in an orphanage or worse, endures a life of addiction and hate and sin and crime and pain.

Where are the orphanages in the United States? Do you realize that it is nearly impossible to adopt a newborn baby in the United States? The FACT is that there aren't any "unwanted" newborn babies in the United States.

Where is the data to support your claim that an adopted child is any more likely to become an addict than a child raised by the natural parents?

As a result, the child's soul is forfeit. A sinner most foul.

The child grows and sins, as a result of the sad circumstances. And is damned.

By what logic do you reach this conclusion? Why is a child damned because his or her mother didn't want the baby?

Or, are you suggesting that certain women just shouldn't be having children in the first place? If this is the case your logic is even more flawed because it fails to account for the fact that most people who we would consider monsters had very loving mothers.

64 posted on 06/04/2009 12:49:16 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: P-Marlowe
If the legitimate authority had done its job, Tiller would be alive (and rotting in prison) today.

Exactly!

65 posted on 06/04/2009 1:14:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
If you feel the need to ping a whole platoon of people to back you up, then I feel no need to respond.

When you can nut-up and discuss this without your posse, I might deign to talk about it.

66 posted on 06/04/2009 1:20:37 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner
Fine, let's try it again.

An innocent child, aborted. Goes straight into the arms of Jesus, without sin. Right?

Are you seriously suggesting that a child is better off being aborted?

By this logic people should be killed the moment they are Baptized.

An unwanted child, raised without love in an orphanage or worse, endures a life of addiction and hate and sin and crime and pain.

Where are the orphanages in the United States? Do you realize that it is nearly impossible to adopt a newborn baby in the United States? The FACT is that there aren't any "unwanted" newborn babies in the United States.

Where is the data to support your claim that an adopted child is any more likely to become an addict than a child raised by the natural parents?

As a result, the child's soul is forfeit. A sinner most foul.

The child grows and sins, as a result of the sad circumstances. And is damned.

By what logic do you reach this conclusion? Why is a child damned because his or her mother didn't want the baby?

Or, are you suggesting that certain women just shouldn't be having children in the first place? If this is the case your logic is even more flawed because it fails to account for the fact that most people who we would consider monsters had very loving mothers.


67 posted on 06/04/2009 1:22:52 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: humblegunner; wagglebee
If you feel the need to ping a whole platoon of people to back you up, then I feel no need to respond.

Just because you don't have any friends....

68 posted on 06/04/2009 1:23:26 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
Just because you don't have any friends....

Whatever.

It's pretty weak when somebody feels the need to gather a group to "defeat" one person.

69 posted on 06/04/2009 1:26:31 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: wagglebee
Fine, let's try it again.

Too late, lynch mob already called.

Try again in a couple of days if you are really interested.

70 posted on 06/04/2009 1:27:55 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: P-Marlowe; humblegunner

I actually wasn’t looking for anyone to back me up. I was simply pinging people to my response to the pathetically ignorant excretion.


71 posted on 06/04/2009 1:28:26 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: humblegunner

I never actually expected anything in the way of an intelligent response, it would probably be grammatically correct but still hollow.


72 posted on 06/04/2009 1:31:02 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: humblegunner; wagglebee; Eaker; metmom; xzins; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; cgk; Coleus
It's pretty weak when somebody feels the need to gather a group to "defeat" one person.

As a general rule as a thread progresses, the ping lists tend to grow. I have had a number of disagreements with wagglebee on this thread and others. He did not ping his "posse", he just pinged a bunch of us who had responded to his posts, argued with him, agreed with him or whatever.

Maybe you should just respond to the post and not pay so much attention as to who gets pinged. This is a public forum and if you expect your responses to be considered private, then I'd suggest you use FReep Mail.

73 posted on 06/04/2009 1:32:21 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: wagglebee
I actually wasn’t looking for anyone to back me up. I was simply pinging people to my response to the pathetically ignorant excretion.

Right.

Have a nice day.

74 posted on 06/04/2009 1:35:36 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: P-Marlowe
Looked like a lynch mob to me.

Anyway I've no further wish to discuss it under the current circumstances.

Getting beat on by dozens of people is not on my agenda today.

Bad for digestion.

75 posted on 06/04/2009 1:37:43 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner

This was pretty much the response I was expecting all along.


76 posted on 06/04/2009 1:39:08 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: humblegunner
An unwanted child, raised without love in an orphanage or worse, endures a life of addiction and hate and sin and crime and pain.

Not necessarily, nor is the wanted child guaranteed an escape from the evils of this world, either.

It is a question of the choices made during the child's life, whether to embrace addiction, sin, hate, and crime, or to embrace the teachings of Jesus and all that is good.

A choice God gave all people, and one which the abortionist denies by preempting any opportunity to choose.

I have seen lives turned around, first by the birth of a child and the change in focus that brought the parent(s).

God works in mysterious ways, and not all that would appear to be a burden is not actually a blessing in disguise.

Similarly, poverty is not a guarantee of poor character, although poor character may often guarantee poverty. Those who refuse to embrace 'victimhood' usually turn out all right despite rough or humble beginnings.

77 posted on 06/04/2009 1:41:38 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Zakeet

http://www.americanrighttolife.org/news/abortion-vigilantism-worksheet


78 posted on 06/04/2009 1:42:39 PM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: wagglebee
Are you seriously suggesting that a child is better off being aborted?

That's how it reads to me. Justify abortion by saying that if you kill them, they go straight to heaven so isn't that better?

sick, sick, sick,....

79 posted on 06/04/2009 2:32:54 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: humblegunner; Eaker; metmom; xzins; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; cgk; Coleus; BykrBayb; ...
If you feel the need to ping a whole platoon of people to back you up, then I feel no need to respond.

You're right, in retrospect I should have simply pinged you for clarification of your comments before I pinged anyone else.

80 posted on 06/04/2009 2:37:18 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: humblegunner; P-Marlowe; wagglebee

Hey, if you don’t want people *ganging up* on you, don’t post like a DUer in a twisted attempt to support abortion.

You’ve exposed your position for all to see. That cannot be hidden and is not a conservative, pro-life view.

This is FR, not DU. Do not expect your sick rationalizations for abortion to pass muster here.


81 posted on 06/04/2009 2:38:06 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: humblegunner; P-Marlowe; wagglebee
Looked like a lynch mob to me.

You can play the martyr all you want, but nobody is buying.

Turning it around to make wagglebee look bad is fooling no one.

82 posted on 06/04/2009 2:39:25 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
This is FR, not DU.

Thanks, n00bie.

I appreciate your input.

83 posted on 06/04/2009 2:40:30 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: wagglebee
You're right, in retrospect I should have simply pinged you for clarification of your comments before I pinged anyone else.

I beg to differ....

In retrospect, it's really irrelevant that you pinged everyone at the same time. He had already been asked for clarification, and notice the response to you was not clearing up the issue, but attacking you instead?

That's all the clarification I need.

84 posted on 06/04/2009 2:41:41 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee
You're right, in retrospect I should have simply pinged you for clarification of your comments before I pinged anyone else.

My remarks were out of place.

The failure was mine in lack of clarification.

85 posted on 06/04/2009 2:42:15 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: metmom
You can play the martyr all you want

Martyr?

You reckon I should be burned at the stake or something?

Again???

86 posted on 06/04/2009 2:45:04 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: lewisglad
so now murder is 'unlawful'?

this is just like the left calling every long gun an 'assault rifle.'

87 posted on 06/04/2009 2:46:00 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: humblegunner
My remarks were out of place.

By remarks do you mean what you wrote in post #36?

88 posted on 06/04/2009 2:49:14 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
By remarks do you mean what you wrote in post #36?

Yes, those would be the ones.

I am going to request that they be deleted.

89 posted on 06/04/2009 2:56:41 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: lewisglad

The logical fallacy being that death was the only way to stop Mr. Tiller’s abortion activities.


90 posted on 06/04/2009 2:58:45 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: wagglebee

Request submitted.


91 posted on 06/04/2009 2:58:56 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner

Thank you.


92 posted on 06/04/2009 3:00:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Post deleted.


93 posted on 06/04/2009 3:03:11 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: metmom
In retrospect, it's really irrelevant that you pinged everyone at the same time.

Blah, blah, blah...

You're just hateful and looking for a victim.

You have focused on me lately but I refuse to be one.

Kick your dog or something.

94 posted on 06/04/2009 3:06:54 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner; wagglebee; P-Marlowe
the need to gather a group to "defeat" one person.

Entirely wrong on a couple of levels. If you'll check our membership dates we've been on FR a long, long, time, and we're friends. Mostly we know which friends will be interested in the same discussion and bring light on it. For example, you might find p-marlowe a bit more radical than wagglebee.

The other thing is that we're not interested in "defeating." Our aim is "conversion." :>)

95 posted on 06/04/2009 3:24:32 PM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
For example, you might find p-marlowe a bit more radical than wagglebee.

It depends on my mood.

96 posted on 06/04/2009 3:29:46 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: xzins; wagglebee; P-Marlowe
The other thing is that we're not interested in "defeating." Our aim is "conversion." :>)

I'd really rather not be Catholic, thanks! ;-)

For example, you might find p-marlowe a bit more radical than wagglebee.

I thought P-Marlowe was a lawyer? They are even worse than Catholics! ;-)

Anyway, peace and ceasefire has been established.

Except for certain harridans who wish me burned at the stake.

But I've dealt with that before, no worries.

97 posted on 06/04/2009 3:31:49 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner; wagglebee; P-Marlowe

Aren’t you in for a surprise. We three friends are: Methodist (me); Catholic (wag); and Barn-Burnin’ Charismatic Evangelical (Marlowe).

We’re gonna make a Methocathecharigelical out of you!

(PS: Just adopt our viewpoint on Tiller, and we’re all OK with that. If you become a methocathecharigelical we’ll all have to visit your new denomination to see if we like it. :>)


98 posted on 06/04/2009 3:36:14 PM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: humblegunner
Except for certain harridans who wish me burned at the stake.

P-M, could you loan Humble, the Severetus Flame-Proof Suit?

99 posted on 06/04/2009 3:37:45 PM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: humblegunner; P-Marlowe
Except for certain harridans who wish me burned at the stake.

P-M, could you loan Humble, the Severetus Flame-Proof Suit?

100 posted on 06/04/2009 3:37:59 PM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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