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No Seal of Approval for Evolution
ICR ^ | June 2009 | Frank Sherwin, M.A.

Posted on 06/05/2009 12:26:14 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

No Seal of Approval for Evolution

by Frank Sherwin, M.A.*

The recent discovery of an incomplete northern Canadian fossil is causing waves in certain evolutionary circles.1 Some scientists claim that Puijila darwini is a flipper-free pinniped (a group that includes walruses, sea lions, and seals) that is supposedly a long sought-after Darwinian transition between a land and freshwater animal. But although a BBC headline proclaimed it a "missing link," this status is made doubtful by the article's uncertain verbiage. Terms such as "probably," "very likely," "suggest," "hint," "apparently," "may have," and "appears to have" are used to describe this animal and its characteristics. It is also important to note that...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; fools; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; science

1 posted on 06/05/2009 12:26:14 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 06/05/2009 12:28:57 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Science is going about its business as it always does.

This is just an example of how science gets things done — there will probably be a lot of debate on what this is and how it fits into the overall scheme of TToE. It is usually the MSM that screws up.

Certainly not an indictment against much of anything.


3 posted on 06/05/2009 12:29:35 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


4 posted on 06/05/2009 12:31:04 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts
The ONLY way you can get from any kind of land animal with legs to anything which lives in deep water is bio-engineering.

A hippo is absolutely ballpark for the sort of whale ancestor which evolosers believe in and you do not see hippos swimming or wading out into deep water since they're bright enough to know what would happen to them the first minute they did.

5 posted on 06/05/2009 12:31:48 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman
Haven't you heard? The Evos would have us believe that what looks bio-engineered for a purpose is in fact the product of random processes, plus survival.
6 posted on 06/05/2009 12:40:09 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: varmintman

So basically what you are saying is, the African hippo is smarter than the American rino.


7 posted on 06/05/2009 12:40:39 PM PDT by Diplomat
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To: GodGunsGuts

8 posted on 06/05/2009 12:43:28 PM PDT by baclava
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To: GodGunsGuts

Standard fudge words that they always use.

As usual, they attempt to tie the nonexistant evolution to something, but cannot do so in a definative way because evolution is, like all flights of fancy, undefinable.


9 posted on 06/05/2009 12:43:28 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: varmintman

“People never die because everyone I’ve seen today is alive”


10 posted on 06/05/2009 12:56:05 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: GodGunsGuts
You guys find Noah's Ark yet?

Proof of Intelligent Design: Moses is attacked by a ferocious Velociraptor, thus proving that dinosaurs did indeed exist only a few thousand years ago.

Proof of Creation: Moses is attacked by a ferocious Velociraptor,
thus proving that dinosaurs did indeed exist only a few thousand years ago.

11 posted on 06/05/2009 12:56:25 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: freedumb2003
Here's another example of how science “goes about its business” and “gets things done”.

“One in Seven Scientists Say Colleagues Fake Data
Foxnews ^ | 6/5/2009 | Staff
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 2:18:20 PM by Red in Blue PA”

An earlier thread.

12 posted on 06/05/2009 1:00:01 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: baclava
LOL, Yours is better than mine.See:

comment#11

13 posted on 06/05/2009 1:00:08 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: editor-surveyor
Fudge words, you say?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/human-and-dino-fossils-together:

We find human fossils in layers that most creationists consider post-Flood. Most of these were probably buried after the Flood and after the scattering of humans from Babel. ...

In light of this, it is possible that human fossils from the Flood could still exist but just haven’t been found yet. ...

Although they wouldn’t have lasted that long and would have eventually perished, they might not fossilize. ...

It seems doubtful that there were many hundreds of millions of people before the Flood. ...

John Woodmorappe’s studies indicate that there are about 168 million cubic miles (700 km3) of Flood sediment.6 John Morris estimates that there is about 350 million cubic miles of Flood sediment.7 The latter may be high because the total volume of water on the earth is estimated at about 332.5 million cubic miles, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. ... It also may simply be that we haven’t found the sediment where humans were living and were buried.

Much more fudge where that came from!

14 posted on 06/05/2009 1:02:19 PM PDT by Caesar Soze
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To: count-your-change

So, some cheat (no link so I can’t read the story). Bankers cheat, so we should eliminate the Banking industry?

That is why there are checks and balances and peer review.


15 posted on 06/05/2009 1:03:13 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Caesar Soze

Do you see any difference in viewing an entire article, and taking a small part of one out of context?


16 posted on 06/05/2009 1:18:08 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: varmintman
A hippo is absolutely ballpark for the sort of whale ancestor which evolosers believe in and you do not see hippos swimming or wading out into deep water since they're bright enough to know what would happen to them the first minute they did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBNA5IB06WI&feature=related

This one is interesting starting at about twenty seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBNA5IB06WI&feature=related

This one is interesting starting at about thirty seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pH1ieIkZRM&feature=fvsr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yCOiW195eA&feature=related

Tell the underwater hippos, Ted, what's about to happen to them.

17 posted on 06/05/2009 1:23:15 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: freedumb2003
Here's how that “checks and balances and peer review” works, from that same thread which can be found on FR at source I gave. Go there and read.

” “Most scientific papers are probably wrong
02:00 30 August 2005 by Kurt Kleiner
Most published scientific research papers are wrong, according to a new analysis. Assuming that the new paper is itself correct, problems with experimental and statistical methods mean that there is less than a 50% chance that the results of any randomly chosen scientific paper are true.”

Journal reference: Public Library of Science Medicine (DOI: 10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124)” “

I don't believe much of what bankers say either.

18 posted on 06/05/2009 1:31:16 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
More deceptive writing and quote-mining. The author writes
The BBC story concluded, "Darwin forecast the transition from land to sea via fresh water in his seminal work On the Origin of Species, published 150 years ago this year." Darwin's predictions are still unfulfilled. According to Benton, "It is hard to imagine how [great blue whales and dolphins] evolved from terrestrial mammal ancestors, and yet that is what happened." Paleontologist Edwin Colbert stated what creationists have been saying for decades--whales have always been uniquely designed ("adapted") as whales and appear abruptly in the fossil record.
Benton's full quote reads, "Looking at a great blue whale...or a fast-swimming dolphin, it is hard to imagine how they evolved from terrestrial mammal ancestors, and yet that is what happened." He's not saying that in the face of all the evidence it's still hard to imagine, as Sherwin implies; he's saying that the relationship isn't apparent to the casual observer.

And by using the same tense for Colbert's quote as for the rest of the article, Sherwin would like us to believe the BBC story contained the quote. In fact, Colbert's quote is from a book written in 1955, well before the major discoveries in the sequence of whale evolution.

19 posted on 06/05/2009 1:35:40 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

I read both, and it’s clear you are making a distinction without a difference.


20 posted on 06/05/2009 1:45:40 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

heh I would have bet the ranch that if I looked up the Edwin Colbert quote that I’d find that it was either terribly out of context, or from half a century ago (or both).


21 posted on 06/05/2009 1:51:56 PM PDT by goodusername
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Colbert's quote is from a book written in 1955, well before the major discoveries in the sequence of whale evolution.

One wonders why quoting from a book written fifty-four years ago would be necessary. Perhaps a clue might be found here.

A sample:

Until fairly recently, the fossil history of the earliest whales (known as Cetaceans) was quite unknown. Edwin Colbert pointed out in 1955, "These mammals must have had an ancient origin, for no intermediate forms are apparent in the fossil record between the whales and the ancestral Cretaceous placentals. Like the bats, the whales (using the term in a general and inclusive sense) appear suddenly in early Tertiary times, fully adapted by profound modifications of the basic mammalian structure for a highly specialized mode of life." (Colbert, 1955, p. 303) The oldest whales then known, the Archaeocetes, already exhibited all of the typical whale characteristics, including lack of rear limbs, paddle-like front limbs, and a tail with a horizontal fluke for propulsion. The teeth of the Archaeocetes, however, very closely resembled an ancient group of carnivores called Mesonychids, which were wolf-sized scavengers that lived in the early Eocene period. Based on these similarities, most paleontologists hypothesized that the whales were the evolutionary descendents of the terrestrial Mesonychid carnivores.

The first hint that they were probably right came in 1983, when researcher Phil Gingerich found a 52-million year old skull in shallow deposits in Pakistan. Although fragmentary, the skull had teeth that were nearly identical with those of Mesonychids and the Archaeocetes. The configuration of the bones at the rear of the skull, however, were different from those in the Mesonychids, and were identical to that of the Archaeocetes. Gingerich thus concluded that the animal, which he named Pakicetus, was a very primitive whale. "In time and in its morphology," Gingerich reported, "Pakicetus is perfectly intermediate, a missing link between earlier land mammals and later, full-fledged whales." (Gingerich, The Whales of Tethys, Natural History, April 1994, p. 86)

... and ...

The most recent discovery in cetacean evolution has also been the most spectacular. In January 1994, Hans Thewissen announced the discovery of several 49 million year old Archaeocete skeletons, the most complete one consisting of parts of the skull and jaw, a number of vertebrae, some ribs and nearly complete front and hind limbs. The large limb bones were fully capable of supporting the animal's weight on land, and were also capable of paddling it through the water using an up-and-down motion of the spine (although it lacked the loose sacral bones found in the Zhou skeleton). Thewissen named the animal Ambulocetus natans ("the swimming whale that walks"). In morphology and in timing, it is a perfect intermediary between the Mesochynids and the younger Archaeocetes.

Quite an interesting article.

22 posted on 06/05/2009 2:00:24 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: sickoflibs
I do what I can. I was gonna post this...but I didn't want to give the Rapturites a headache.
23 posted on 06/05/2009 2:13:18 PM PDT by baclava
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To: Gumlegs
Is being an idiot supposed to be a prerequisite for being an evoloser?? I said,you won't find hippos swimming in DEEP water, as in 100', 200', 300' and so on where you have big sharks and where they wouldn't be able to find their way home from even if the sharks didn't get them. That is if they didn't starve either because they were herbivores and couldn't find large quantities of vegitation floating around in the deep water or were carnivores and all the prey fish were too fast to catch because they had fins and the hippos had legs...

Idiot.

24 posted on 06/05/2009 2:17:53 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: freedumb2003

So, some cheat (no link so I can’t read the story). Bankers cheat, so we should eliminate the Banking industry?

That is why there are checks and balances and peer review.


LOL....

just ignore that the checks and balances are shouted down, smeared, lied about and sued into silnce in this case though right?

MAN are you....100% programmed or what?

SEEK a cult deprogrammer in your area today!


25 posted on 06/05/2009 2:23:28 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for g!ood men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: varmintman
What I was responding to, Ted, and what you've cleverly omitted from your response was you wouldn't find them swimming or wading into deep water. Why an animal would wade into what you've now specified, water one to three hundred feet deep is something of a mystery. But then why I would expect someone who can't understand why there are no feral chickens to suddenly start posting rational questions about animal behavior in nature (even under a new, post-banning name -- by the way, how many times have you been banned, Ted?), is my own failing.

Can you name another animal that might do what you proposed -- wade into water one to three hundred feet deep?

Even Splifford the ascii bat in his most beknighted moments wouldn't ask a question that silly.

26 posted on 06/05/2009 2:31:45 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs

Splifford has not yet been knighted.


27 posted on 06/05/2009 3:55:04 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yep definitely a pinniped. Sinbad would really like it.

Here's his little brother.


28 posted on 06/05/2009 5:51:59 PM PDT by AndrewC (Metanoia)
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To: baclava

You are killing me LOL


29 posted on 06/05/2009 6:43:12 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: varmintman
A hippo is absolutely ballpark for the sort of whale ancestor which evolosers believe in and you do not see hippos swimming or wading out into deep water...

Hippos are born underwater, they suckle underwater, and they spend much of their lives underwater.
30 posted on 06/05/2009 9:42:36 PM PDT by Phileleutherus Franciscus
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