Skip to comments.Jack Cashill: Reopen the TWA Flight 800 Case
Posted on 06/07/2009 12:31:42 AM PDT by neverdem
Nearly thirteen years after the destruction of TWA Flight 800 off the coast of Long Island, I had begun to think that the case was a dead issue, but then two unexpected and unrelated events caused me to think otherwise.
“never occured before that in any airplane”
And if that was the 1st time ever, what are the odds it happens off Long Island?
Those who described seeing TWA-800 explode that day did so in the context of a surface to air missile bringing it down.
Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist (I'm not..) but I've never believed the Gubbermint's account of TWA-800.
Jack Cashill BUMP!
If Flight 447 was flying at approximately 50,000 feet there aren’t very many missiles of the normal kind that could have taken it out from what I understand.
There has to be other Eye Witnesses and those involved in the “Interviews” that wull come forward now for the Security and Future Health of Our Dear AMERICA to bring the Truth about the Destruction of TWA 800 to the Light of Day.
One thing We can be sure of is that Mr. Obama’s Administration will continue to hide the Truth because it wonte reflect well on the MUSLIM TERRORISTS who Obama denies even Exists! Dr. Cashill has done extensive Investigations on TWA 800 and deserves all the help and assistance possible in bringing out what really happened to TWA 800 for the Families Who Lost their Loved Ones, for AMERICA and for AMERICA’S Citizens, US! who deserve No Less Than the TRUTH! Also, LETS DEMAND that the documentary “PATH TO 9-11” be released by DISNEY/ABC and the CLINTOON CENSORS for the Judgment of the AMERICAN PUBLIC! As of yet, We do NOT LIVE in Venezuala, Cuba or KENYA wher We would expect to be denied OUR FREEDOMS.
And I’ll add if they had such a missile, why go after an Air France plane verses one of ours?
The feds announced the cause of the crash before the investigation began. Thats my memory; they announced what the investigation would find the day they announced that the investigation was starting.
My reaction at the time was, what?
The government’s position from the beginning has always been, “who are you going to believe, us or your lying eyes?”
TWA 800- who speaks for the dead?
I really wish the US Government was competent enough to pull off a massive cover up like this. I really do. Sadly, the US Government isn’t near as competent, or coordinated enough, to make this a reality. People claim the US Government can fake 9/11, coverup TWA 800, hide UFOs, and all sorts of other garbage, but then can’t even have the foresight to plant WMD in Iraq. Way funny.
TWA Flight 800 is another one of those terrorist attacks, which the government does not (and did not) want anyone to know about.
Oklahoma City is another such incident...
We’ve been attacked a few more times by terrorists than the government wants to really let us know about...
You said — People claim the US Government can fake 9/11, coverup TWA 800, hide UFOs, and all sorts of other garbage, but then cant even have the foresight to plant WMD in Iraq. Way funny.
Those items are all over the ball park. They are not related and don’t show the government necessarily doing something in one item that carries over to the other item.
For one thing, hiding UFOs and putting that into the same sentence as 9/11 or TWA Flight 800 is ridiculous.
On top of that, putting the “truther” idea of 9/11 into the same sentence at TWA Flight 800 is double ridiculous.
I don’t buy into the “truther” story about 9/11, and neither do I about the UFOs being hidden by the government (although I do think that people are seeing something, but the government is just as ignorant about it as the people in general are...).
As far as the WMD in Iraq, to me it’s really obvious that our government did know that the WMD was carted off to Syria. But, for some reason, they did not (and don’t) want to admit or clarify what they do know about it all. For some reason they are keeping this information quiet. And keeping it quiet and keeping that information secret does not mean that they didn’t have the “foresight to plant WMD in Iraq”...
None of those things relate to the issue of TWA Flight 800. And it’s entirely possible for the government to keep secret the real cause of the downing of TWA Flight 800. That’s not hard to do, as we can see plainly, by simply not even bothering to interview witnesses who saw something different than the “story-line” that the government wanted to pursue “officially”...
I’m sure that the government knows that this was a terrorist attack and for some reason they decided that it would be better to keep the whole thing secret and under wraps (and for some misguided reason, I think...).
From Wikipedia located here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
Analysis of reported witness observations
Numerous witnesses in the vicinity of the accident reported a streak of light. As the NTSB noted, “There was intense public interest in these witness reports and much speculation that the reported streak of light was a missile that eventually struck TWA flight 800, causing the airplane to explode.” The NTSB Witness Group concluded that the streak of light reported by witnesses might have been the accident airplane during some stage of its flight before the fireball developed, noting that most of the 258 streak of light accounts were generally consistent with the calculated flightpath of the accident airplane after the CWT explosion.
However, 38 witnesses described a streak of light that ascended vertically, or nearly so, and these accounts “seem[ed] to be inconsistent with the accident airplane’s flightpath.” In addition, 18 witnesses reported seeing a streak of light that originated at the surface, or the horizon, which was “not consistent with the airplane’s flightpath.” With regard to these differing accounts, the NTSB noted that in previous investigations witness data was “often inconsistent with the known facts or other witnesses’ reports of the same events.” The interviews conducted by the FBI focused on the possibility of a missile attack (some suggested interview questions given to FBI agents were “Where was the sun in relation to the missile launch point?” and “How long did the missile fly?”), and as a consequence there was possible interviewer/interviewee bias. The NTSB concluded that given the large number of witnesses in this case, they “did not expect all of the documented witness observations to be consistent with one another”, and “did not view the apparent anomalous accounts as being persuasive evidence that some witnesses might have observed a missile.”
The investigation determined that if witnesses had observed a missile attack they would have seen the following: (1) a light from the burning missile motor ascending very rapidly and steeply for about 8 seconds; (2) the light disappearing for up to 7 seconds; (3) upon the missile striking the aircraft and igniting the CWT another light, moving considerably slower and more laterally than the first, for about 30 seconds; (4) this light descending while simultaneously developing into a fireball falling toward the ocean. None of the witness documents provided to the NTSB described such a scenario, and the investigation concluded that “the witness observations of a streak of light were not related to a missile and that the streak of light reported by most of these witnesses was the burning fuel from the accident airplane in crippled flight during some portion of the post-explosion, pre-impact breakup sequence.”
“The plane just got approval to increase their elevation to 15,000 feet when contact was lost.”
WHAT???? The plane would not have been at 15,000 in that location, much less below that.
He would have been at maybe 30,000 at that point.
“If Flight 447 was flying at approximately 50,000 feet there arent very many missiles of the normal kind that could have taken it out from what I understand.”
You are right, and anyone thinking a missile attack obviously does not know a jet airliner from a Cessna 150.
I do accept the likelihood that TWA 800 at low altitude
was indeed shot down.
While we don't know the method yet, they did have motive. The French have about 5,000,000 Muslim immigrants. A good number caused riots in their suburban enclaves not long ago. They didn't like riot suppression. The French have a law against hajibs. The French are helping NATO with combat troops in Afghanistan.
I disagree. They are related because they would all require massive inter-agency coordination and nobody talking. Impossible. Your theory about WMD being carted off to Syria isn't true for the exact same reasons. It would require too many people to keep their mouth shut when the reward would be millions of dollars for blowing the whistle on it. Again, impossible.
You were saying about the WMD being carted off to Syria — “It would require too many people to keep their mouth shut when the reward would be millions of dollars for blowing the whistle on it. Again, impossible.”
Well, actually, it doesn’t require people to shut up, because people haven’t shut up, actually... LOL... There have been ample reports about that. No one is shutting them up; it’s just that most of the public doesn’t believe them (and a large part of that non-believing public doesn’t want to believe them, because they are Democrats...).
And so..., it’s just that the U.S. government goes along with the detractors of the war in Iraq and says, “You’re right, we were wrong...” — at the same time that others are “spilling the beans” on it...
So, there’s no need for a massive cover-up here, just that the U.S. Government agrees with its detractors and then it lets human nature take its course and no one believes the ones who are spilling the beans on it. It works beautifully...
Thanks for the links.
Jamie Gorelick was remarkably positioned to do a number of things. She worked for Janet Reno after the Oklahoma City bombing after Iraqi agents were implicated. She was on the 911 Commission where she helped to deflect responsibility for that attack when she was the one who helped to erect the wall between the CIA and FBI about terrorist intelligence. After working at the Justice Dept. under Clinton, she got an appointment to Fannie Mae where she got plenty in bonuses. It stinks.
The rats quake about national security charges. They try to refute them like Clinton's war room.
I totally agree with you...we MUST unify and take a stand. We have the numbers, but “UNITY” is the key.
no, if he was just half way across Long Island, there was no way he was above 20K
They dont climb that fast with passengers with a 7 hour flight ahead of them, they dont need to
Plus, I’ve been to those beach areas, specifically the Morichies, 15K is about right, they still look big in the sky
Weve been attacked a few more times by terrorists than the government wants to really let us know about...
OH MY GOSH! WHO are you? I thought all FREEPERS swallowed the government koolaid and had gone to government schools too! Isn't it OBVIOUS that is what happened but the masses still believe a corrupt government over their own common sense? I thought when Sandy Berger got caught putting TOP SECRET special catagory documents into his underwear that the thinking might start but no, they still can't see.
“no, if he was just half way across Long Island, there was no way he was above 20K”
I am not sure who you are replying to.. I never mentioned anything about TWA800 altitude.
My guess is maybe 10,000, max
I thought that AF447 was at somewhere between FL300 to FL350 ,,, that 50,000 number is the reported top of the weather (although hail can overshoot the clouds tops on the updraft)...
More importantly ,, I heard reports that the ocean depth where AF447 was thought to have gone down was somewhere just over 20,000’ ... do we have a better idea of the location and depth now for blackbox retrieval?
“I heard reports that the ocean depth where AF447 was thought to have gone down was somewhere just over 20,000”
Yes, and there are mountains from the sea floor going up over 10,000 ft.
This may all be moot now. I understand that the site has been located and 2 bodies recovered.
The day after the downing of this Jet off Long Island the F.B.I. lead investigator James Kalstrom or Halstram I think,
in a t.v. interview said that, “if it ever came out what really happened”, caught himself and shut the hell up.
Then the gubmnt made up this B.S. story of a “FUEL LEAK”.
Government lies and more lies.
Have some coffee, Mr. Cashill.
The Clinton and Obama Administrations are thematically indistinguishable at this point, and the amount of personnel overlap in national-security and policymaking organs is conspicuous and high-level.
If the Clinton Administration suppressed a successful terrorist missile attack in U.S. airspace for political reasons in 1996, that policy will continue today, for the same reasons. There will be no recensions and no recanting the old policies.
I recall an article at the time, that said that TWA 800 was climbing through 13,600' at the time of the explosion.
That's from memory.
AF447 reportedly was cruising at 35,000 feet at last contact, not 50,000 as you say.
But even if you were to have some backup for that assertion, so what? The article makes no claim whatsoever about a missile taking out AF447. In fact, it makes no speculation whatsoever on the cause of the AirFrance event. Nor do the responses preceding yours even mention it. Yet you interject this wild (and erroneous) non-sequitur as response to...nothing.
I don't know whether I agree with you about TWA 800 at all, but it's well known now that President Clinton, for political reasons, consistently and doggedly refused to treat terrorist incidents as anything but police matters, even incidents like the Khobar Towers and Nairobi embassy bombings. The USS Cole bombing was investigated by the FBI, not CIA Counterintelligence, as if it were a domestic fireworks prank that got out of hand, not a paramilitary terrorist bombing in a foreign seaport.
Where did the 50,000' number come from? The service ceiling for the A-330 is 40,500'. They couldn't get to FL50 if they'd have wanted to, especially with a full load of passengers and fuel. Zealous reporter?
The one thing that nobody has explained regarding TWA800 is where did the oxygen come from to cause explosive combustion of kerosene vapors at 12,000'-14,00' from just a spark? The fuel tanks are vented to the outside to allow for fuel expansion and contraction. There simply was not enough oxygen available at that altitude to allow explosive combustion of kerosene. Kerosene, aka Jet-A, has to be compressed to get it to burn at altitude. That's what a jet engine does.....
I never believed the official version of why Flight 800 went down either. There were too many initial eyewitness accounts of a light streaking towards the plane from the ground before the explosion.
I still think it was either terrorism or friendly fire from a Navy or Coast Guard training exercise gone wrong. Either way, the goobermint IS hiding something.
They were flying into a major storm at 15,000 feet?
That doesn’t sound even remotely correct.
Wrong doomed flight.
My mistake. I didn’t read the entire article. The implication from the start is that their fate was related (why else would it reopen TWA flight 800?).
I probably misread something earlier... Basically that they would be trying to fly over the storm and that this particular storm had wicked weather at 50,000 feet - or something to that affect...
Well, the missile theory has a few problems (setting the eyewitnesses aside for a minute), the first being tactical. I'm unaware of a MANPADS that can reach an aircraft reliably at 13,000'. The Stinger's operational ceiling is about that, or rather less. The copies cranked out by the Soviets and Chinese are about the same, for obvious reasons (their propellants aren't any better than ours).
And remember the attempt in Kenya a few years ago to take down an airliner with a pair of ex-Soviet SA-14's (the Stinger copies I referred to). The attempt failed.
A further problem for the TWA 800 missile enthusiasts is the fact that the explosion occurred dead-center in the aircraft, whereas SA-14's, Stingers, etc., are IR homing and typically strike an engine. Recall the DHL Airbus A300 freighter that was struck on one wing (photo) over Baghdad by an SA-14 MANPADS but managed to land safely.
If TWA 800 had been struck by an SA-14, a) it might easily have survived the attack and landed safely, the 747 being a big, capable aircraft with multiple system redundancy, and b) if it had succumbed, the sequence of events would have been a lot different.
They were transitioning what is known as the "inter tropical convergence zone" or the ITCZ. This is where trade winds from the northern and southern hemispheres converge. This convergence often results in very violent convective weather. My guess is weather wasn't the only factor, though. Usually, a crash is caused by a series of events that stack up on each other to cause the crash. All too often the last item in the stack sadly is pilot error....
Forensics don't lie. The forensics of the airplane showed
*no explosive material of the type associated with any known warhead, and certainly not on any "Stinger" type missile.
*This was explained away in "First Strike" as the (what I will call) "attack" missile didn't explode---it "passed through." This would be more unusual than electric static charge, more about which I will comment in a moment.
*Since Saunders had no explosive residue, he then focused on the infamous "red residue" that he claimed could be evidence of a "pass through" missile---i.e., one that didn't explode but simply passed through the airplane. Problem: this also would not cause the explosion. Saunders then hypothesized that such a missile wasn't the "attack" missile, but now changed his story to claim it was an off-course drone from a Navy exercise being chased by an "attack" missile. Ok, so now we have TWO missiles, neither of which showed up on ANY radar screen anywhere.
I have yet to find any military person who thinks a Stinger, given the range, altitude, and distance, could have reached TWA 800. It was at the very, very extreme end of a Stinger IF . . . IF . . . the shooter was perfectly situated underneath TWA 800. But then see problem #1: no explosive residue.
The so-called red residue of a pass through missile was explained by other chemical reactions, and for such a pass through missile to have been the culprit, it would have left massive, other consistent signatures everywhere---in hull entry, throughout every piece of recovered (compromised) material. No such evidence was ever found.
No radar has ever detected missile evidence; the Navy staunchly denied ever conducting tests, and no Navy person has ever once broken with that denial.
As to the static electricity, this was reproduced on the show "Mythbusters" a few years ago. They achieved a fuel tank explosion under similar (not exact) conditions that to them was stunning in the violence of the explosion. It literally blew their test article apart.
See my critique above. One more point: You could say, "Well, the terrorists used a pass through missile without an explosive warhead." Wow. That would be a first, and it would be taking a phenomenal risk that it would have the effect it did. If it passed through the hull but didn't cause an explosion, it would damage the plane, but not necessarily destroy it.
Correct...and the last one was in Arkansas last week.
The Mythbusters did nothing to reduce the oxygen content of the atmosphere around their test subject to mirror the oxygen content in the center fuel tank of TWA800 at 12,000'-14,000'. Since they didn't do this their "test" was meaningless....
There are multiple unidentifieds on the radar images.