Posted on 06/13/2009 7:47:47 AM PDT by Publius
And Billthedrill have been breaking our backs on that chapter.
Oh, yeah. The Speech. I can’t wait to find out what the Book Club thinks of our takes on it. I threw out at least twice what I sent you, probably more. If I get a collective razzing over it I’ll take it like a man... ;-)
Midas owns it, or created it?
I’ll bet you have. I can’t wait to see what you two come up with. Didn’t it take Rand two years to write it? And you guys have only a few weeks.
And there is no sex in it.
When I first read AS I was a young woman still in my teens, and I could not understand how Dagny could drop Reardon for Galt. He left me cold. Now that I’m a middle aged woman, I still can’t understand it.
Francisco has made more of an impression on me this reading, and I can certainly understand why Dagny might have returned to him. But we can’t recapture our youth. And their relationship really is history. Francisco outgrew Dagny. As much as he still loves her (and to some degree, she still loves him), I fully understand why they can’t go back. And it’s bittersweet.
But Reardon? He’s been with her through the long haul, through the hardships, through the triumphs. They have unwittingly built a life together. As a woman, I cannot understand how Dagny can toss Reardon aside for some Johnny (Galt) Come Lately.
As for earning the right to love and be loved by someone, I think Dagny did that long ago. Yet in her time of need (oh, what a nasty word), all Galt could offer her was the desperate patter of footsteps outside her window. Reardon, on the other hand, was there for her. They have a shared, ongoing give-and-take relationship. Doesn’t that count for anything?
Maybe I will enjoy THE SPEECH this time around because it spares the reader of Rand’s very strange thoughts of love and romance.
Wow. Potent and dead on, Bill. I was just talking about how the vapid Dixie upChucks whine about being "censored" when people stop buying their dreck in response to their outrageous statements. They had the right to speak their mind, as well they should, but they're more worried about whether or not people buy their "art" than the possession of the right they just used! Maddening.
I don’t have my copy of AS here, but I’m pretty sure that he bought the land and sells portions to the newcomers.
If not for him, would Galt’s Gulch even exist?
I feel oddly disinclined to read this next chapter. It can’t be it’s length - all 50 pgs. or whatever it is of his radio address. I am very much looking forward to the distinguished gentlemen’s work on this and am flirting with the possibility of skipping the speech altogether.
The next chapter doesn’t contain The Speech. That’s Chapter 7 of Part 3.
I agree with your take here. This is my second reading and I like Francisco much better this time around. I also think that Hank Reardon has earned the right to better treatment than he is getting from Dagny. I understand that, for all intents and purposes, they are “Friends with Benefits” but a bit more than that. I think from a real person’s point of view, Hank would be by far the better choice for a lifetime together than either Francisco or Galt.
Francisco gave her up and I’ve found that it’s really hard to revisit a relationship like that after one or both of the parties have moved on for any length of time.
I’m guessing that if we fast forward, Hank and Francisco will eventually move on and find people who are not quite so rigid in terms of being “selfish”. And my sense is that with Galt and Dagny, the wanting might be much better than the ultimate having. I don’t recall if this is dealt with in the book or not. My guess is it isn’t.
For all the talk of individuality here, Galt’s Gulch was certainly a group endeavor. Midas Mulligan buying the land and Galt having a great deal to do with setting it up. I’m a bit perplexed with Galt, however. I understand that he invented the motor and had the dramatic walkout at 20th Century Motors, but the others have actually built up businesses and succeeded at enterprises in the real world, such as it is. All except for Galt and Danneskold among the main characters, I suppose.
Maybe that’s why I think more highly of Reardon than I do of Galt, at least at this juncture. Reardon invented his metal which, although maybe not as spectacular as Galt’s motor, was done while building and running his businesses.
I view Reardon as more of a leader, but then I fall back on the first thing a good leader does is get the best people as part of his endeavor. And Galt has certainly done that! I’m feeling right now that the near Galt worship is a bit overdone.
“ultimate having”? I’m not going near that spoiler! I’ll bet it doesn’t give BilltheDrill as much trouble as the speech.
I think Dagny and Reardon were much more than “Friends with Benefits.” Theirs is the love story of Atlas Shrugged. He gave her jewels (not just that industrial strength bracelet) and that awesome fur coat. He gave up his metal for her. They survived a road trip together. He divorced his wife. They brought joy to each others’ dreary lives, and they shared the same values. They comforted each other. They had hot sex. This be love — not friendship. And it was mutual.
Dagny could relax with Reardon. But Galt? My gosh! That would be an exhausting relationship! I mean, when could you kick back in sweats with dirty hair and without makeup with this guy? You’d have to always be ON. No “honey, let’s just order a pizza tonight” in their home. Didn’t you notice there wasn’t a pizza place in Galt’s Gulch?
Reardon would let her have a pizza.
Civilization collapsing will create two classes of citizens: Those who go on about the business of living, even if only in survival mode, and those who sit around waiting for help from someone else.
If government collapses, all of those who depend on government for survival will have it the toughest. Once people are taught to depend on government, it creates a whole swath of society doomed to death, should government fail, because they’ve never learned how to take care of themselves.
Sounds like New Orleans and Katrina.
Good example, yes, nothing like a little recent history to provide an example of just how badly government can muck things up.
What I find frustrating about those who think government is wonderful is that they conveniently ignore the collapse of the USSR.
Government ran everything in the USSR, killed 20 million plus of it’s citizens, and collapsed after a mere seventy years of existence.
Yet, rather than the USSR being a cautionary tale about government run amok, instead, they say “Oh, it will never happen here.”
Yeah, okay, so, what came after the Weimar Republic in Germany?
OK - more than FWB, but Dagny always wanted to meet the man who invented the motor and was looking for her ultimate love while still bedding Reardon. I think the relationship meant much more to him than it did to her.
And, yes, you said what I was thinking. I could see Dagny and Reardon hanging around, downing a pizza, maybe even watching a ball game. If Galt and Reardon’s situations were reversed, I can’t see Galt flying over the Rockies for a month looking for her. I can see both Francisco and Hank doing that.
One correction, John doesn’t own the valley; Midas Mulligan does. As Midas put it, “...he just works here.” I don’t suspect Midas would be the type of man who would submit to anybody. And certainly not Judge Narragansett. Ragnar probably listens to John because he’s known John far longer than Dagney, whom he just met. You’re right, John would never force his will on anybody. The Strikers listen to him because he is the first person to speak truth to them.
I was about to say — Hitler outdid the USSR, and it only took 12 years.
“Oh, it will never happen here.”
Indeed?
Obozo seems to be following the LIEberal/Socialist/Marxist playbook quickly and with no little success, at this juncture.
Even worse, they point to faults of our own, such as slavery, and claim that therefore we have no right to criticize the Marxists for their "excesses".
Kirk
This paragraph is noteworthy...
And it is a fundamental error. For example, every time a gun control zealot sneers, “Why do you need a firearm?” he or she is trying to force a faulty premise, that the determinative factor in the sanctity of one’s personal possessions is some else’s perception of need.
I would suggest, for use in an actual conversation, an answer of "why do you need to ask?"
Dagny's stay would have occurred even if Galt had not been present. I recall how she spent time in her youth working at a remote train station in order to learn how the business operated. She may, at first, consider it an opportunity to 'know your enemy'. As readers we want to think otherwise due to having knowledge of what is coming but at this point, she is in the midst of the destroyers.
What is greed, after all, but the desire for more of something than one needs?
and
The debasement of art in our age is that it no longer seeks truth, but celebrity.
...Seem at first to be similar and upon further thought I see that “needs as measured by whom?”turns the whole idea into a pretzel. If an artist creates art, is it really art if it isn't experienced by others, thus an artist 'needs' others? Would an artist be greedy if they create art for enjoyment of others? Is a mere thought in an artists mind art before it is made into something to be experienced by others? Your post has made me consider the needs aspect beyond the monetary association. It will take time to unwind this pretzel.
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