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DRUGS WON THE WAR!
NYTimes ^ | 6.13.2009 | NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Posted on 06/16/2009 12:43:47 PM PDT by wolfcreek

This year marks the 40th anniversary of President Richard Nixon’s start of the war on drugs, and it now appears that drugs have won.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: atf; babyboomers; communist; dea; dopersrights; hippies; infiltrators; insurgency; libertarian; lping; nixonbashing; pravdamedia; revenuetickets; warondrugs; wod; wosd
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It's time for the WOD to end. (for more than a few reasons)
1 posted on 06/16/2009 12:43:47 PM PDT by wolfcreek
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
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2 posted on 06/16/2009 12:46:05 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: wolfcreek

And it’s been over 40 years since President Johnson started the war on poverty. I think poverty won that war. After 40+ years we still have about the same proportion of the population grappling with poverty.

I wish somebody would write an article about the failure of the war on poverty. We can and should discuss the war on drugs. Drugs have caused lots of devastation to our country. But the war on poverty and its abject failure has similarly had huge negative consequences. And these consequences never get talked about.

Nixon’s war on drugs was an evil Republican war, perhaps?

Whereas LBJ’s war on poverty was a good Democrat war.


3 posted on 06/16/2009 12:46:42 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: wolfcreek
It's time for the WOD to end.

Agreed 100%.

4 posted on 06/16/2009 12:47:05 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: wolfcreek

Whenever the Government declares a war on anything, it is actually a war on our “Rights.” In that respect, both the war on poverty, and the war on drugs have been a huge success.


5 posted on 06/16/2009 12:51:17 PM PDT by c-b 1 (Reporting from behind enemy lines, in occupied AZTLAN.)
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To: c-b 1
Whenever the Government declares a war on anything, it is actually a war on our “Rights.” In that respect, both the war on poverty, and the war on drugs have been a huge success.

Ding, ding, ding, ding....thread over, we have our winner!!

6 posted on 06/16/2009 12:56:28 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: wolfcreek

And just think, Obama may be ending the war on terror......


7 posted on 06/16/2009 12:57:57 PM PDT by umgud (Look to gov't to solve your everday problems and they'll control your everday life.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I thought FDR went to war against pot. And cocaine had been criminalized before that.


8 posted on 06/16/2009 12:59:41 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: c-b 1

How’s MADD’s zero.zero war on drunk driving going? States, insurance, and lawyers are doing quite well from it.


9 posted on 06/16/2009 1:00:50 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
IMO, the WOD and the WOP go hand in hand.

We have upwards of 1.5 million otherwise peaceful individuals sitting in OUR tax payer funded prisons for nothing more than simple possession.

Those folks could be working, paying taxes and supporting their families.

We're paying for the WOD and the WOP, coming and going while politicians and corrupt LEOs are raking in the benefits.

10 posted on 06/16/2009 1:07:22 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek

The NY Times is always right and the Caps Lock is really convincing.


11 posted on 06/16/2009 1:09:26 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: c-b 1
You absolutely correct. End those wars and we could spend that money repairing our debt and have a BADDER ASS military.
12 posted on 06/16/2009 1:10:46 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek
We have upwards of 1.5 million otherwise peaceful individuals sitting in OUR tax payer funded prisons for nothing more than simple possession.

BS

Those folks could be working, paying taxes and supporting their families.

Piled Higher and Deeper.

13 posted on 06/16/2009 1:10:52 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: wolfcreek

It’s also time for the war on poverty to end. That one’s being going on longer, and it’s proven a dismal failure.


14 posted on 06/16/2009 1:11:08 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Moonman62

I just wish the pro legalization crowd would be a little wiser about who they accept as allies.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/soros-infiltrates-conservative-movement/


15 posted on 06/16/2009 1:12:04 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Moonman62

Hey, don’t kill the messenger. Broke clock and all that....


16 posted on 06/16/2009 1:13:14 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: Moonman62
Yes, Kristof is right on this.

At least the Temperance Union and the Anti-Saloon League had the decency to pass a Constitutional Amendment to further their prohibionists goals.

The pro-drug war folks have no such decency, or any Constitutional loyalty that stops them from supporting a policy of prohibition by fiat.

17 posted on 06/16/2009 1:17:28 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: wolfcreek

“It’s time for the WOD to end. (for more than a few reasons)”

Which isn’t to say we have to legalize everything or give up on efforts to prevent destructive addictions, but clearly approaching drug abuse almost entirely as a law enforcement problem has not been very effective. OTOH, alcohol is legal and it continues to be a problem, and abuse of it appears to me to be even a growing problem among young adults. I don’t know what the answer is.


18 posted on 06/16/2009 1:18:05 PM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like ox.)
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To: wolfcreek
Those folks could be working, paying taxes and supporting their families.

Just curious what percentage of them you think would actually do this.

19 posted on 06/16/2009 1:18:28 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: wolfcreek

Perhaps, but I’d like to know why so many of these left-wing douchenozzles who are advocating to end the war on drugs and decriminalize marijuana are working so hard at the same time to criminalize tobacco and cigarettes.


20 posted on 06/16/2009 1:18:37 PM PDT by jpl (Help us Obambi Wan Kenobi, you're our only dope.)
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To: cripplecreek; Moonman62
I think Soros is using the *legalization* thing as a prop to gather support for his Socialist plans.

I'm not for total *legalization* but, like another FReeper said, “All these *wars* created by the government are nothing more than plots to take OUR rights away”.

You guys have any ideas?

21 posted on 06/16/2009 1:20:02 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“After 40+ years we still have about the same proportion of the population grappling with poverty.”

What’s your definition of “poverty”?

If you are referring to “relative poverty” (e.g. “% of population making less than X% of the average income”) then you are probably correct.

If you are referring to “absolute poverty” (e.g. “% of population unable to afford necessities of life”), then you’re probably incorrect.

By some measures, the “poverty line” today begins where the middle of the middle class was a few decades ago.


22 posted on 06/16/2009 1:20:23 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: c-b 1

One of the best and most direct posts I have seen in a while. You hit that one out of the park and onto Waveland Ave.


23 posted on 06/16/2009 1:20:23 PM PDT by Big Red Clay (Greetings from the Big Red State)
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To: MEGoody
Don't care to guess. One thing for sure, they're not doing it by sitting in prison while learning the ropes of criminality.
24 posted on 06/16/2009 1:23:27 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek

(singing)
I fought the drugs and the drugs won,
I fought the drugs and the drugs won!


25 posted on 06/16/2009 1:25:35 PM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: -YYZ-
OTOH, alcohol is legal and it continues to be a problem, and abuse of it appears to me to be even a growing problem among young adults. I don’t know what the answer is.

Just make it illegal to drink in bars.

Second-hand fumes and all that.

26 posted on 06/16/2009 1:31:52 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: jpl

I wasn’t aware that was happening to such a degree.

Got any links?


27 posted on 06/16/2009 1:33:03 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek

....every day 60,000 addicts wake up in Baltimore hustling to get the money for their next fix....make it legal and they’ll still be robbing, stealing and turning tricks to come up with the money.


28 posted on 06/16/2009 1:33:04 PM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: STONEWALLS
Make it legal and it'll cost a fraction of what it does now. Cops could also focus on real crime.

Add in a repeal of all the anti-RKBA nonsense and theft/robbery victims can help thin the herd of drug addled criminals.

29 posted on 06/16/2009 1:37:43 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: STONEWALLS

So, basically, NO CHANGE.
Except that we won’t be;
1. Spending billions to fight this stupid war.
2. Attacking the civil rights of our citizenry in an attempt to win this stupid war.

Sounds good to me.


30 posted on 06/16/2009 1:37:59 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: STONEWALLS

Those are the ones who need to be locked up or in treatment not, some guy who got caught smoking a joint.

I’ve tried to figure how it might be if all drugs were legal but, there would be many a pitfall.

Would there still be a supply of heroin it it was legal?

Would there still be dealers?

Would it save the Border patrol a lot of time and money not looking for drugs and smugglers?


31 posted on 06/16/2009 1:44:45 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek
The WOD was given cabinet level status just over 20 years ago.

Remarks Following the Swearing-in Ceremony for William J. Bennett as Director of National Drug Control Policy

1989-03-13

-snip-

But those here and across the country who join me today in our just war against drugs may take some renewed confidence in our prospects for success because the President of the United States has placed this struggle at the top of his administration's agenda, at the top of our common national agenda where it needs to be.

-snip-

My office is already conducting an exhaustive review of our national fight against drugs on both supply and demand sides. Where past strategy has succeeded, we will see to it that it's continued. Where past strategy has failed, we will see that it's replaced or modified.

-snip-

http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/research/public_papers.php?id=160&year=1989&month=3

______________________________________

You can see for yourself how Dr. Bennett's brainchild has failed on both the supply and demand side:

http://www.briancbennett.com/quick-look.htm

32 posted on 06/16/2009 1:47:54 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: wolfcreek
It would put the smugglers out of business and prices would fall.

Heroin is nasty stuff, but the amount of people who have actually used heroin in their lifetime is somewhere south of 1% of the populace, and regular uses are less than that.

33 posted on 06/16/2009 1:48:33 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: wolfcreek

I’m not strictly opposed to legalization of marijuana. I just think libertarians and conservatives should stay away from Soros money and push for small measures.

For instance, instead of outright legalization, push for decriminalization. A ticket is a lot better than jail time any day of the week. It should also be pointed out that few people are in prison for drug use or possession alone. There are usually other associated crimes. That said shorter sentences given to those who successfully complete real drug treatment.


34 posted on 06/16/2009 1:53:06 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: SJSAMPLE
So, basically, NO CHANGE. Except that we won’t be; 1. Spending billions to fight this stupid war. 2. Attacking the civil rights of our citizenry in an attempt to win this stupid war. Sounds good to me.

It was inevitable that we would lose the "Drug War". In a sense it wasn't a war with drugs but a war about ourselves and personnel freedom. Many people when given freedom will screw up. In fact a large percentage of people will screw up. This is human nature and there are no social policies that will correct this. It's part of our makeup. In in our DNA. The only sure way to stop Drugs 100% is to take away people's personal freedom. Do we wish to do this? I don't think so.

So what can we do to minimize the effects of drugs? Well we can legalize them. At least that would put the drug dealers out of business. A tremendous amount of violence and peripheral damage can be averted. The chic appeal of drugs will go down when they are legalized. The people who still use drugs can be more readily identified. It will be a win-win situation. A tremendous amount of suffering will be averted. Will it happen? It will one day but not very soon and not as long as so many profit from the illegal drug trade.
35 posted on 06/16/2009 1:53:25 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: cripplecreek
I'm assuming you noticed the medical marijuana mess on the west coast. The FEDGov doesn't want to budge on that issue for reasons we can only guess. (wink) If they see it as future revenue, that could change.

I'm thinking this, like many other issues, this needs to go to the states and let them decide what's best.

Unfortunately, we seem to be headed in the other direction.

36 posted on 06/16/2009 2:01:06 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: GunRunner
Addict aren't just addicted to *illegal* drugs either. No body wants to address the issue of *legal* pharmaceutical drug abuse which, IS a far worse problem.
37 posted on 06/16/2009 2:10:13 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: wolfcreek

There’s been no “war on drugs.” If there were a war on drugs, all of the dopers would be dead.


38 posted on 06/16/2009 2:13:15 PM PDT by familyop (Randian "objectivism:" it's all about me, me,...)
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To: wolfcreek
Addict aren't just addicted to *illegal* drugs either. No body wants to address the issue of *legal* pharmaceutical drug abuse which, IS a far worse problem.

Not from the standpoint of a loss of rights for the general populace.

If you take too many painkillers because you're sad, that's a problem. For you. You're your own victim.

If a door gets kicked in by a SWAT team and Grandma gets shot because some anonymous informant tells tall tales, that's a problem. For anyone who wakes up unlucky that day.

Freedom means being able to f@#$^ up your own life, and you deal with the consequences. Tyranny means other people can f@#$^ up your life, and leave you with the consequences.

I'll take my chances with freedom.

39 posted on 06/16/2009 2:22:03 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Oh, well. Back to the drawing board....)
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To: wolfcreek

Ha ha, drugs aren’t the only winners, check my tagline...


40 posted on 06/16/2009 2:24:21 PM PDT by To Hell With Poverty (The War on Poverty is over. Poverty won. - Howie Carr)
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To: familyop
There's been no "war on drugs." If there were a war on drugs, all of the dopers would be dead.

Then explain why Singapore and Iran have such a bad heroin problem.¹

¹Link to post with data and sources

41 posted on 06/16/2009 2:54:47 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: familyop

People have been *indulging* in mind altering substances since the beginning. Are you suggesting most of us should be dead?


42 posted on 06/16/2009 2:57:25 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: -YYZ-

I know what the answer is: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If you must face the consequences for your actions, you tend to become much more temperate in what you do and how much of what chemicals you use for relaxation...


43 posted on 06/16/2009 3:20:49 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: MEGoody

Let’s get rid of ALL these wars conducted by FedGov which are, after all, only excuses to expand the reach of government and have NOTHING to do with preventing or ending that which they are “against.”


44 posted on 06/16/2009 3:22:38 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Nixon’s war on drugs was an evil Republican war, perhaps?

Whereas LBJ’s war on poverty was a good Democrat war.

YES on the former, & NO on the latter. They are BOTH evil, unconstitutional, unnecessary, & have caused more problems than they have "solved".

45 posted on 06/16/2009 3:48:39 PM PDT by ChrisInAR (The Tenth Amendment is still the Supreme Law of the Land, folks -- start enforcing it for a CHANGE!)
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To: familyop

You’re almost right. There IS, however, a war on the Constitution, masquerading as a war on drugs. And THAT is what must be stopped dead in its tracks.

And the drug warrior cult is largely responsible for perpetuating that war on America and our Constitution. So thanks a lot!


46 posted on 06/16/2009 4:13:15 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: Steel Wolf

Roger that. How hard is it for the drug warriors to comprehend that simple fact???


47 posted on 06/16/2009 4:14:58 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: truthguy
So what can we do to minimize the effects of drugs? Well we can legalize them. At least that would put the drug dealers out of business. A tremendous amount of violence and peripheral damage can be averted. The chic appeal of drugs will go down when they are legalized. The people who still use drugs can be more readily identified. It will be a win-win situation. A tremendous amount of suffering will be averted. Will it happen? It will one day but not very soon and not as long as so many profit from the illegal drug trade.

Worth repeating.

48 posted on 06/16/2009 5:56:15 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: Moonman62
“Piled Higher and Deeper.”

When your town is run by Mexican drug lords funded by the war on drugs and drug prohibition, don't complain. You will have gotten exactly what you wanted.

BTW in case you still don't understand, just like alcohol prohibition gave millions to Al Capone and his gangster contemporaries, so drug prohibition gives millions to what would be two bit petty criminals these days. If you want two bit petty criminals to have the money to buy judges, prosecutors and law enforcement officers then supporting the war on drugs is the way to go.

Want to know who the biggest supporters of the war on drugs is? Criminals. Without drug prohibition, they would have to work for a living.

49 posted on 06/17/2009 7:21:58 AM PDT by monday
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To: monday
BTW in case you still don't understand, just like alcohol prohibition gave millions to Al Capone and his gangster contemporaries, so drug prohibition gives millions to what would be two bit petty criminals these days.

And when alcohol prohibition ended so did organized rime. /sarcasm

50 posted on 06/17/2009 7:34:28 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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