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Chuck Colson: Government-Run Churches, Can It Happen Here?
BreakPoint ^ | 6/18/09 | Chuck Colson

Posted on 06/18/2009 12:59:16 PM PDT by wagglebee

In China, Christians have a choice: Join a government-approved church—which is constantly monitored by the authorities—or join an underground church.

Thank heavens things like that don’t happen in the West, you may be thinking. Think again. In Britain, the government has begun sticking its nose in church business, telling churches what to do.

According to the Daily Telegraph, starting next year, the British government is going to begin forcing churches and other religious institutions to hire open, practicing homosexuals. It will happen under the provisions of the so-called Equity Bill, which forbids discrimination against homosexuals or transsexuals.

The law would “cover almost all church employees,” according to Deputy Equities Minster Maria Eagle. “The circumstances in which religious institutions can practice anything less than full equality are few and far between,” Eagle said. Church groups, she said, “cannot claim that everything they run is outside the scope of anti-discrimination law.”

What’s next—regulating the content of sermons? I’m not kidding. According to Eagle, “Members of faith groups have a role in making the argument in their own communities for greater” acceptance of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people.

Maybe it would simplify things if the government simply wrote the sermons for the pastors.  

The Equity Law could lead to some interesting situations. What happens if a church, under pressure, hires a gay youth minister—and orders him to teach kids about the sinfulness of homosexual behavior? And I can only imagine the reaction of a British mosque when the religion police orders it to hire a lesbian secretary.

Neil Addison, a Catholic barrister who is an expert on religious discrimination laws, told the Telegraph that the Equity Law “is a threat to religious liberty.” “What we are losing,” he said, “is the right for [churches] to make free choices.”

He’s right. To put it more bluntly, the government is beginning to run the churches. And if they succeed, it will be the end of religious freedom in Britain.

Legislation like the Equity Law should concern Americans. So-called “social reforms” that begin in Europe soon wash up on our own shores.

And then, what will happen to the Church? Will we put our congregations under the authority of Caesar? Or will we resist and, if need be, abandon our elegant buildings and, like our faithful brethren in China, form underground churches?

The Bible teaches that the followers of Christ will be tested. We ought to be in prayer for the church in Great Britain, asking God to guide it as the government bears down.

Second, we ought to be preparing for similar laws here. Many churches are already under great pressure by homosexual activists to violate their own teachings under the guise of “fairness”—a much abused word.

This, by the way, is not a hysterical rant. The threat is very real.

Third, we ought to remind our neighbors that the First Amendment was written not just to protect the government from churches, but more so to protect churches from the government.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; chinesechristians; christianity; colson; firstamendment; homosexualagenda; moralabsolutes; religiousleft
Third, we ought to remind our neighbors that the First Amendment was written not just to protect the government from churches, but more so to protect churches from the government.

And that's exactly what the secularists don't want people to know.

1 posted on 06/18/2009 12:59:16 PM PDT by wagglebee
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2 posted on 06/18/2009 1:00:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
"In Britain, the government has begun sticking its nose in church business..."LOL, in Britain, the government created the Church, but it's a good reminder about the application of so-called 'equality' laws...this however is where that 'wall of seperation' comes in handy.
3 posted on 06/18/2009 1:01:52 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: wagglebee

It will be here too, sooner than you think. With “hate-crime” laws, it will be illegal to say anything that could possibly be construed as being offensive to sodomites or muslims.


4 posted on 06/18/2009 1:02:36 PM PDT by SandWMan (Even if you can't legislate morality, you can legislate morally.)
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To: wagglebee

What is the Queen thinking? Is she not the head of the Church of England?


5 posted on 06/18/2009 1:02:37 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480; tutstar; WKB; lightman; Huber; sionnsar; Gamecock

General Christianity ping for your lists.


6 posted on 06/18/2009 1:03:23 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Neil Addison, a Catholic barrister who is an expert on religious discrimination laws, told the Telegraph that the Equity Law “is a threat to religious liberty.”

Now there's some good British understatement for you. A "threat"? More like a hatchet.

Should this ever come to pass here, there will plenty of churches where the congregations won't ever know the difference. Some of them are already essentially DNC meeting halls with crosses on them.

7 posted on 06/18/2009 1:05:22 PM PDT by workerbee (If you vote for Democrats, you are engaging in UnAmerican Activity.)
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To: wagglebee

If government is going to control the churches, will it also do the same to Islam and other non-Christian religions?


8 posted on 06/18/2009 1:05:39 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: wagglebee

Aren’t there UN Chapels in NYC, SF and St Louis?


9 posted on 06/18/2009 1:06:26 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <----go there now,----> tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: SandWMan

Yes, we should never allow anything to stifle our right to offend.


10 posted on 06/18/2009 1:07:18 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: SandWMan

Yup...I never thought I’d see the country where it is right now in my life time. So I think with in 2 years Christians will be highly persecuted. Soon, other countries will come here as missionaries. However, I feel Americans are fighters and after having freedom they will not let go of it...this will get “dicey” very quick.


11 posted on 06/18/2009 1:08:51 PM PDT by mikelets456
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To: wagglebee

I’m surprised at Chuck, he being a Christian teacher and all. The Bible he believes is the Word of God says that this very thing IS going to happen. Yes, we should fight it as long as possible but it is going to happen.


12 posted on 06/18/2009 1:09:07 PM PDT by fish hawk (The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: stuartcr

“Yes, we should never allow anything to stifle our right to offend.”

While this may have been written as sarcasm, it is nonetheless true.

;)


13 posted on 06/18/2009 1:09:25 PM PDT by SandWMan (Even if you can't legislate morality, you can legislate morally.)
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To: wagglebee

We could always start holding bible studies at home... oh right.. cities are cracking down on that too


14 posted on 06/18/2009 1:09:30 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <----go there now,----> tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: SandWMan
I can only imagine the reaction of a British mosque when the religion police orders it to hire a lesbian secretary.

There won't be one because you can bet the Muslims will prevail in ignoring it. (this law will only serve to damage Christian churches, as I have no doubt was the intent of whoever wrote it). Hasn't Britain already allowed some sharia courts to supercede their own?

15 posted on 06/18/2009 1:09:46 PM PDT by workerbee (If you vote for Democrats, you are engaging in UnAmerican Activity.)
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To: SandWMan

Of course.


16 posted on 06/18/2009 1:10:06 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: americanophile

He wasn’t just talking about the Church of England


17 posted on 06/18/2009 1:10:07 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <----go there now,----> tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: fish hawk

Can anything really happen, that isn’t part of God’s plan?


18 posted on 06/18/2009 1:11:24 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: workerbee

Yup


19 posted on 06/18/2009 1:11:42 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <----go there now,----> tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: stuartcr

Nope.


20 posted on 06/18/2009 1:12:46 PM PDT by fish hawk (The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: wagglebee
Will we put our congregations under the authority of Caesar?

Most churches are already under the authority of Caesar by way of the 501C3 tax exemption. It's only a matter of time before Caesar begins to exercise his authority by demanding that any organization that receives a tax exemption must not discriminate in hiring.
21 posted on 06/18/2009 1:12:48 PM PDT by slumber1 (Serenity Now!)
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To: fish hawk

That’s certainly how I believe. That’s why I have so few worries.


22 posted on 06/18/2009 1:15:37 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: wagglebee
We ought to be in prayer for the church in Great Britain, asking God to guide it as the government bears down.

True.

23 posted on 06/18/2009 1:31:53 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Visit the updated Tax-chick page for news, recent photos, and LOLcats.)
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To: SandWMan

It will be hear within a decade...if Obama is reelected. Otherwise we are looking at twenty years at the outside.

Politically correct will be the law of the land...a wise Latina woman told me.


24 posted on 06/18/2009 1:37:51 PM PDT by kjo
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To: wagglebee

England is a different situation. It has both an established state church in the Church of England, a head of state that is also a religious figure in the person of the queen, and no constitutional barriers of the sort we have.


25 posted on 06/18/2009 1:41:27 PM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: kjo

I think it will be within 10 years no matter what, and probably sooner.

I have seen this sort of thing (and many others) coming for some time, but things have been changing RAPIDLY in the last few years. I think now that we will be hit with this, and many other onerous things very soon.


26 posted on 06/18/2009 1:43:15 PM PDT by SandWMan (Even if you can't legislate morality, you can legislate morally.)
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To: wagglebee

Many of the churches already have fallen in line with leftwing dogma and approve of things that are not in tune with Christianity.


27 posted on 06/18/2009 1:43:20 PM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (leftism is morally and ethically corrupt.)
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To: wagglebee

It be a snow day in hell before a mosque is forced to hire a fag.


28 posted on 06/18/2009 2:03:28 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: wagglebee

Let the government try — nothing builds up true Christianity like persecution. The chafe will be burned away and the gold will be refined. The remnants will be stronger than ever.


29 posted on 06/18/2009 2:56:03 PM PDT by TexasRepublic
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To: GeronL

Obviously.


30 posted on 06/18/2009 3:12:30 PM PDT by americanophile (Sarcasm: satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language.)
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To: TomOnTheRun
You're right. I mean, c'mon, what's next -- we elect a socialist? Never happen here!

/sarc

31 posted on 06/18/2009 4:22:49 PM PDT by workerbee (If you vote for Democrats, you are engaging in UnAmerican Activity.)
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To: stuartcr; SandWMan

>>Yes, we should never allow anything to stifle our right to offend.

“offending” tyrants and oligarchs who prop themselves up via religious subjugation is an American responsibility.


32 posted on 06/19/2009 8:44:47 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: LomanBill

Right you are.


33 posted on 06/19/2009 8:48:56 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: wagglebee
I can only imagine the reaction of a British mosque when the religion police orders it to hire a lesbian secretary.

Hahaha, silly man. These laws only apply to Christians.

34 posted on 06/19/2009 8:51:23 AM PDT by Boiling Pots (B. Hussein Obama: The final turd George W. Bush laid on America)
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