Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: woodnboats
Sorry for the late reply. I think you've encapsulated Rand's point of view beautifully (and in a lot fewer words than she used).

But here's a couple of things to consider: first, that until the end of this chapter Dagny hadn't (yet) actually expressed a preference to anybody; she hinted at it (finally) to Rearden but took considerable trouble not to disabuse Francisco's erroneous conclusion that it was Rearden. Felt guilty about it, too. In the absence of that I don't see either of these men making a rational conclusion that it was Galt. A hypothesis, maybe, to use Rand's terminology.

Second, these are hypercompetitive men (and women) who would cut one another's throat - ethically, of course - for the next contract, the next train route, the next bridge. This sort of supine acceptance doesn't strike me as in character.

Third, Rearden likes to take Dagny by force (and Dagny likes that as well) - he has rape fantasies, risks his marriage, slaps his friend. All of a sudden a switch is pulled, he says "oh, well, she likes somebody else," and off he is to commiserate with Francisco over a beer? Well, maybe, but I wouldn't bet that way.

What that requires is for these men to cease behaving like men; that is, to cease to compete for the woman. It certainly isn't impossible to imagine, but it strikes me as very atypical, even peculiar, behavior. I could suspend disbelief long enough to accept it as fiction, but Rand appears to put it forward as a model of real-world behavior, and that one, in view of all that I've seen of the real mating behavior of my fellow men and women, is a hoot.

I'm not saying you're wrong, though, and I am saying you fully understand Rand's point of view on the matter and express it well. Call me Scrooge... ;-)

15 posted on 06/20/2009 3:56:33 PM PDT by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]


To: Billthedrill
What that requires is for these men to cease behaving like men; that is, to cease to compete for the woman. It certainly isn't impossible to imagine, but it strikes me as very atypical, even peculiar, behavior. I could suspend disbelief long enough to accept it as fiction, but Rand appears to put it forward as a model of real-world behavior, and that one, in view of all that I've seen of the real mating behavior of my fellow men and women, is a hoot. I'm not saying you're wrong, though, and I am saying you fully understand Rand's point of view on the matter and express it well. Call me Scrooge... ;-)

Thanks for the kind words, Bill. Especially appreciated coming from you.

As I see it, most of what might be termed "civilized" behavior, at least on the part of men, runs contrary to our natural instincts. And yet, because we are a peculiar mix of the instinctive overlaid with the rational, we are able to put aside such things as jealousy, or at least mellow it, in the name of civilization, because we rationalize the necessity. I grant that these men are very masculine, even macho, men, but I think they are able to control their feelings, without denying them, when they see the need. On a parallel note, look at the emotional cost Francisco obviously accepted when he damaged Hank by destroying D'Anconia Copper, while recognizing the necessity. And hyper-competitiveness does not cause one to forgo recognizing and accepting the possibility of losing. The competition is valuable by itself.

Kirk

16 posted on 06/20/2009 4:23:32 PM PDT by woodnboats (Help stimulate the economy: Buy guns NOW, while you still can!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]

To: Billthedrill
What that requires is for these men to cease behaving like men; that is, to cease to compete for the woman.

Homosexuals?

21 posted on 06/21/2009 9:32:30 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson