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Sure Iran Has Problems, But What About Waco?
KWTX ^

Posted on 06/21/2009 2:01:18 AM PDT by Chet 99

TEHRAN (June 19, 2009)-- Iran’s supreme leader took issue Friday with U.S. claims about human rights violations in his country in the wake of a bitterly contested presidential election, and cited the 1993 raid on the Branch Davidian compound outside of Waco as he questioned whether U.S. officials even “know what human rights are.”

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned protestors of a crackdown on massive street demonstrations.

He said protesters would be "held responsible for chaos if they didn't end" days of massive demonstrations.

He blamed Great Britain and Iran's external enemies for trying to foment unrest, and said “the worst thing to me in all of this are comments made in the name of human rights and freedom and liberty by American officials,” according to translations of his remarks posted online Friday.

“During the time of the Democrats...time of Clinton…80 people were burned alive in Waco,” he said.

“Now you are talking about human rights?”

His reference was to the fiery end to the 51-day standoff between federal agents and Branch Davidians in 1993 at the group’s compound outside of Waco.

Plans for the federal raid on the compound were actually set in motion while George H. W. Bush was president.

International human rights organizations say Iran's crackdown in response to protests over a disputed election has swept up dozens of activists and politicians.

The director of the New York-based International Campaign for Human Rights, Hadi Ghaemi, says he's been told at least 200 had been arrested or disappeared.

The Iranian government has said that it has arrested a relatively small number of people responsible for violence and other crimes.

Amnesty International and the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran say they've heard similar reports.

Meanwhile, in the strongest message yet from the U.S. government, the House has voted to condemn Tehran's crackdown on demonstrators and the government's interference with Internet and cell phone communications.

Republicans initiated the resolution as a veiled criticism of President Barack Obama.

The president has mostly spoken in quite measured terms, reluctant to speak too strongly about the disputed elections that left hard-liner President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in charge of the Muslim nation.

Democrats, who are quick to voice their support for Israel, easily agreed with the GOP on pushing through the mildly worded resolution.

Congress frequently weighs in on foreign policy matters, when a similar message from the State Department or the White House would be considered confrontational.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: democrats; iranviolence2009; waco

1 posted on 06/21/2009 2:01:19 AM PDT by Chet 99
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2 posted on 06/21/2009 2:07:50 AM PDT by Chet 99
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To: Chet 99

Clinton and Reno did it...but it was Bush’s fault those people were burned alive...riiiight

The MSM never disappoints. Ha!


3 posted on 06/21/2009 2:09:58 AM PDT by 240B (he is doing everything he said he would'nt and not doing what he said he would)
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To: Chet 99

He does have a point.


4 posted on 06/21/2009 2:11:28 AM PDT by Daniel II
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To: Chet 99

Wait till he hears about the number of abortions each year.


5 posted on 06/21/2009 2:24:07 AM PDT by donna (The best security for old age: respect your children. - Sholem Asch)
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To: Daniel II

Yes he does, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

The Iranian leadership should have held honest elections and allowed the will of the people to rule the day.

No amount of bluster about Waco will absolve what the Iranian leadership is up to.

I’m sure you agree, so this isn’t directed at your personally.


6 posted on 06/21/2009 2:26:12 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

We have had our own presidential elections stolen ... JFK/Nixon in ‘60.. Al Gore came within a hair of pulling it off in 2000.


7 posted on 06/21/2009 2:28:47 AM PDT by Chet 99
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To: DoughtyOne

You are right that “two wrongs”.

In Iran the party in power is afraid if they lose power they will be killed.
Makes one fight to hold that power that more intense.
Though different, Waco and a few other incidents have obviously put a blemish on America.


8 posted on 06/21/2009 2:45:18 AM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: Chet 99
They certainly have a point - when the Democrats are in office egregious things certainly can happen. And when the Republicans are in office, bad things will certainly be reported - whether they happen or not, whether they happened because of the administration or despite its legitimate efforts to prevent them. "Korans will be flushed down toilets," American soldiers will be murdered by terrorists in Iraq, and "al Qaeda will gain recruits" because an officer in a jail disobeyed standing orders. All Bush's faultTM, of course.

Janet Reno took "responsibility" for Waco. Not that she took the logical consequence of being responsible, of course . . .

After all, she got on board so late that it "wasn't really her fault" . . . which begs the question of whose fault it was. But of course we weren't to ask that question.


9 posted on 06/21/2009 3:19:40 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle.)
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To: Chet 99
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned protestors of a crackdown on massive street demonstrations.

He said protesters would be "held responsible for chaos if they didn't end" days of massive demonstrations.

He blamed Great Britain and Iran's external enemies for trying to foment unrest, and said “the worst thing to me in all of this are comments made in the name of human rights and freedom and liberty by American officials,” according to translations of his remarks posted online Friday.

“During the time of the Democrats...time of Clinton…80 people were burned alive in Waco,” he said.

“Now you are talking about human rights?”

This is an open sore that is still festering. The monsters that did this have never really been brought to justice.

All thanks for this should go to Janet Reno and Sen. John Danforth ( for whitewashing this atrocity).

10 posted on 06/21/2009 3:54:09 AM PDT by sauropod (People who do things are people that get things done.)
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To: Chet 99

The mullahs have a point. Previous outrageous democrat action in Waco bites us in the rear end. We don’t have any credibility in this area, thanks to the excessive zeal of our religion hating democrats. That’s why they should never be allowed power.


11 posted on 06/21/2009 6:22:59 AM PDT by reaganbooster (The democrat party symbol should be the grim reaper instead of the donkey.)
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To: Chet 99
Democrats, who are quick to voice feign their support for Israel

Accuracy in reporting is restored.

12 posted on 06/21/2009 7:52:24 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Joe Boucher

Thanks Joe. I agree.


13 posted on 06/21/2009 12:11:33 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

Yes, two wrongs don’t make a right; you’ll get no argument from me on that.

But the mullah has every right to point out our hypocrisy.

Kinda takes the wind out of our moral high ground, considering no one was ever brought to justice for murdering these people.


14 posted on 06/21/2009 3:44:22 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: DoughtyOne
The Iranian leadership should have held honest elections and allowed the will of the people to rule the day.

sadly he could also say the same for our election and *representatives* as well...

with each passing day Im more convinced that there truly is no getting off this merry-go-round, and that God will surely show His Power and Glory by causing/allowing men to destroy themselves...all according to His Plan...

15 posted on 06/21/2009 4:18:58 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Luke 22:36...Trust in the Lord...=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: 240B

If you’ve ever seen the video “Rules of Engagement,” showing the ANIMALS the federal government sent down to Waco—absolutely brutish, bloodthirsty, thuggish, ANIMALS, making jokes about roasting the Davidians DAYS BEFORE the fire—you would know that there’s plenty of blame to share among Democrats and Republicans. Because the FBI and the BATF have been recruiting and training ANIMALS under both Republicans and Democrats.


16 posted on 06/21/2009 5:23:23 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Chet 99

>>> Plans for the federal raid on the compound were actually set in motion while George H. W. Bush was president. <<<

Plans to set the compound on fire and let the fire burn out of control, killing dozens? Somehow I doubt that.


17 posted on 06/21/2009 5:32:13 PM PDT by Poe White Trash
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To: Chet 99

Score ONE point for the mullah.

He’s dead-nuts on to finger this glaring point of hypocrisy.

Of course, it takes Democrats at the helm to pull off that kind of crap in these United States, and of course that only makes the hypocrisy all that more acute. For who but the Democrats howl longer and louder for “social justice” and “human rights,” and who but the Democrats more readily twist the power of government to hinder actual progress on both of those fronts? And who but the Democrats are the very LAST persons on God’s green Earth to recognize how those dots connect??

Of course, it’s really the blockhead Democrat voters who are the ultimate Philistines in continuing to re-elect officials who incite these kinds of events, and it is this same brainless cabal of nincompoops who then swoon all over their favorite media talking heads when the news breaks defending idiot Democrat bureaucrats for their heinous acts.

Heinous, Satanic evil, the formerly-free press, the Democrat Party, and their putty-brained, gum-smacking Democrat voters together form the most deadly circle-jerk in the known universe.


18 posted on 06/21/2009 9:29:19 PM PDT by HKMk23 (Ma dolate zoor nemikhaim!)
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To: Daniel II

Sorry, one has nothing to do with the other.

You can’t silence reasoned voices, if your policies are wrong.

You can only change your policies.

Nobody on this forum thinks our actions at Waco were more flawed than I do. I think those actions require prosecution and extensive prison sentences for people from the local to national level. That still does not tarnish sound comments of reason, regarding what the Iranian government is up to.


19 posted on 06/22/2009 10:36:07 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Gilbo_3

What we have to remember here is that it is our people who are supporting the Iranian people. It is not government driven.

I do believe our elections were subverted. That doesn’t mitigate the justification of our people standing up to support the Iranian people.

I do appreciate that you stated “causing/allowing”, but there is something I try to remain constant about when it comes to human events. God can only allow human events to play out. He cannot cause them to.

That’s not to say it isn’t within His power to, it’s just that sin has to play out it’s natural course, or the whole sin vs God’s plan could not be deemed to be a fair test.

In the end, Sin will have had it’s chance without God’s interference. It will fail on it’s own merits.

When it has, God will intervene.


20 posted on 06/22/2009 10:49:09 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

Sorry nothing.

The mullahs will use any justification they can to do what they are doing. Pointing out our hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of any other nation who would criticize them, enables them to feel that what they are doing is okay, because everyone else does it somewhere along the line.

I never said it was right. I only said he had a point. And in that, it leaves our criticisim of their actions, that is, our government’s criticism, less than what it could be.


21 posted on 06/22/2009 3:01:44 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: HKMk23
wow, tell us how you really feel...lololol...

nice rant...

22 posted on 06/22/2009 7:22:19 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Luke 22:36...Trust in the Lord...=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: DoughtyOne
well D O, as always, i appreciate your perspective, but on the 'cause & effect' i must disagree...

of course my personal interpretation of scripture is only my opinion, but i believe He choseeverything for me, or else i was given a single yes/no question back before the foundation and *that* answer set my path...

pretty deep, i know, and i do reserve the right to be completely wrong if He wants me to be...8^}...

keep up the good postings sir...

23 posted on 06/22/2009 7:31:14 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Luke 22:36...Trust in the Lord...=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: Chet 99; sickoflibs
It's a classic "liberal argument". How many times have we heard liberals imply that in order to say something is "wrong" we must be perfect. Then they condemn us for not being perfect. It's the argument Larry Flynt makes - in his twisted mind, everyone must be in the gutter with him or they're a hypocrite.

It's an argument that is the essence of evil. First - the only "perfect" person who lived here could walk on water. The rest of us can't walk on water and we're NOT perfect. That DOES NOT mean that the rest of us have to accept Larry Flynt the pornographer. Or the Mullahs. Or any other liberal evil.

We don't have to be perfect to see what's wrong and call it as wrong.

And Mullahs, shooting your own citizens in the street after stealing an election is WRONG. And I can say that and I'm not perfect. We can all say that: YOU Mullahs are WRONG!

24 posted on 06/22/2009 7:44:17 PM PDT by GOPJ (Chubby people live longer - by years! Will food police put a tax on tofu and sprouts!)
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To: GOPJ; Chet 99
I honestly have not formed an opinion of exactly what the USA should be doing beyond condemning the violence and dont know how this will play out. I understand that Obama promised ‘engagement; which would betray the protesters and so he deserves to be attacked on this politically, as long as it's something that works for a change. Politically you want to trap democrats into looking like they are supporting the Iran government crackdown.

How about the North Korean ship? Any bet's that Obama will have the guts to do anything about it? Now this one has legs because he PRed the UN resolution he wouldnt be enforcing which would show the fraud he is.

25 posted on 06/22/2009 8:01:21 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: sickoflibs
I honestly have not formed an opinion of exactly what the USA should be doing beyond condemning the violence and dont know how this will play out.

Obama needs to define our belief in honest elections ( I know that's not easy for a democrat but he needs to say it). Then he has to tell the Iranian people that he understands their yearning to be free because all people want to be free. Then he needs to give examples of all the countries 50 years ago that were not free that ARE free today. And he has to say the path is hard and long but he believes they will make it.

It's not all he could do - but it's the minimum he must do...

As far a what the dems look like or don't - it's hopeless. All of us who can see them for what they are, wouldn't care. And all the people who can't see the dems for what they are wouldn't believe it. Best just to concentrate on helping the Iranians.

You're in interesting person sickoflibs - I - like you - have no idea what's going to happen with North Korea. That could be a nightmare for us.

26 posted on 06/22/2009 8:31:15 PM PDT by GOPJ (Chubby people live longer - by years! Will food police put a tax on tofu and sprouts!)
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To: sickoflibs
"Eventually, the call of freedom comes to every mind and every soul. We do not accept the existence of permanent tyranny because we do not accept the possibility of permanent slavery.

Liberty will come to those who love it. All who live in tyranny and hopelessness can know: the United States will not ignore your oppression, or excuse your oppressors. When you stand for your liberty, we will stand with you."- President George W. Bush, 1/20/2005

Something like this....

27 posted on 06/22/2009 8:35:32 PM PDT by GOPJ (Chubby people live longer - by years! Will food police put a tax on tofu and sprouts!)
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To: Chet 99

The quaint “indigenous” little old man in Tehran is finally going to make Branch Davidians cool!


28 posted on 06/22/2009 8:35:52 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayeredu hem vekhol-'asher lahem chayyim she'olah; vatekhas `aleyhem ha'aretz . . .)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
-- which begs the question of whose fault it was. But of course we weren't to ask that question. --

That can be traced back in a long string of errors, to federal courts reading the 1937 Miller case for the OPPOSITE of what it says, and thereby upholding the 1934 NFA. Koresh was wanted for violation of a law that the United States District Court found unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court held that ruling to be correct if the gun in question was one in that had a use in an organized militia, or for common defense.

Then there is the initiation of the raid on the compound, rather than asking Koresh to surrender, or detaining him away from the compound.

29 posted on 06/22/2009 8:40:17 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: sickoflibs
-- I honestly have not formed an opinion of exactly what the USA should be doing beyond condemning the violence and dont know how this will play out. --

I'm not sure an unqualified condemnation of violence is appropriate either. See Declaration of Independence. It sets out principles that were good enough for the US, and those principles are good enough for free people elsewhere.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. ... when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government

The alternative is to tell them to quit belly aching and get back to work. They had an election, and now they must follow their elected leaders.

30 posted on 06/22/2009 8:48:06 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: GOPJ

RE :”Obama needs to define our belief in honest elections “

I do wonder voting Iraq is what is stirring the youth in Iran, never mentioned in MSM. I seriously think it may be.

RE :”You’re in interesting person sickoflibs “

Thanks, I am certainly beyond looking for someone to tell me what I have to think.


31 posted on 06/22/2009 8:52:15 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: Cboldt

RE :”That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, “

??? Our constitution says that?


32 posted on 06/22/2009 8:54:30 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: sickoflibs
-- Our constitution says that? --

No. That's in our Declaration of Independence.

33 posted on 06/22/2009 8:58:53 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
-- which begs the question of whose fault it was. But of course we weren't to ask that question. --
That can be traced back in a long string of errors, to federal courts . . .

Then there is the initiation of the raid on the compound, rather than asking Koresh to surrender, or detaining him away from the compound.

The entire lash up, of course, was due to the lack of an Attorney General who knew the law and the Constitution and was determined to follow it. On her best day Janet Reno was not that.

But Janet Reno wasn't even on board at the start of the mess, because she wasn't the first woman named for the job - nor, IIRC, even the second. Hillary's(!) first picks were, like Hillary herself, not people you would want the vindication of your rights to depend on, either.

But by the time that Reno actually took office, the train was starting down the track and bad decisions had already been made. Had she been a mench, of course, that wouldn't have mattered so much. But she was there as window dressing, the first female Attorney General - and proved, like Sandra Day O'Connor sadly, that the pool of first-rate woman lawyers at the time of her nomination just wasn't that deep.


34 posted on 06/23/2009 3:09:29 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle.)
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To: sickoflibs
I do wonder if voting in Iraq is what is stirring the youth in Iran, never mentioned in MSM. I seriously think it may be.

I think that's an important part of what's going on.

35 posted on 06/23/2009 8:34:39 PM PDT by GOPJ (I'm..opposed to shooting abortionists,but don't believe in imposing my morality on others-Coulter)
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To: Daniel II

I am reminded of Putin warning Obama to be careful about his economic policies. I suppose someone could point to Russia’s past, but it didn’t tarnish the truth in what he said for me.

The people with common sense, will understand messages of merit.

Iran’s government hasn’t got a leg to stand on here.

I’m sure you agree with that.


36 posted on 06/24/2009 10:35:35 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Gilbo_3

While I do believe He cleared the path for us as it relates to salvation, I believe we have choices to make all along the way. Just as he allowed Adam and Eve to select their own path, He still allows us to select ours.

I appreciate your reasoned disagreement, and good nature about it.

You keep up the good posting too Gilbo_3. Thank you.


37 posted on 06/24/2009 10:42:14 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Chet 99

Good strategy. He knocked that one out of the ball park.

It’s a fact, before the fed.gov begins lecturing the Iranian regime on human rights, they best be looking in their own back yard. Where is that front door?


38 posted on 06/24/2009 11:13:10 AM PDT by takenoprisoner (Freedom Watch: fight for freedom with everything you have.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Iran is a sovereign nation. The leaders can do to their people whatever they think they can get away with, and they can justify it anyway they feel like, which they have.

Moreover, they can tell any nation that they want to to piss off. Pointing out the USA’s hypocrisy helps them feel better. Whether they have a leg to stand on or not, if they get away with it, they have both legs to stand on.

I’m sure you agree with that.


39 posted on 06/24/2009 6:17:14 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: Daniel II

“...if they get away with it...”

The intent was to silence criticism. Did they get away with it?

No.


40 posted on 06/24/2009 6:24:02 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

Dude, you are, in a word, “extraneous.”

You make me weary. You’re one of those people who refuses to capitulate. There have been at least three others on this post who have said the same thing, that is, “they have a point,” but you haven’t bothered to take any of them to task.

I’m done with you. Please don’t respond to any of my postings.


41 posted on 06/24/2009 6:38:37 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: Daniel II

If you don’t want me to reply to you, quit giving me something to respond to.

Try reading this post again and get a grip.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2276167/posts?page=19#19


42 posted on 06/24/2009 6:59:17 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

Now you’re being passive-aggressive.


43 posted on 06/24/2009 7:05:50 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: Daniel II

What? No bill for your professional opinion? Well at least you’re good for a laugh.


44 posted on 06/24/2009 7:11:52 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne

Like I said, “extraneous.”


45 posted on 06/24/2009 7:13:36 PM PDT by Daniel II
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To: Daniel II

So now you’re stooping to repeating your vacant comments?

That didn’t play the first time you tried it in desperation.


46 posted on 06/24/2009 7:26:42 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (_res__ent of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: GOPJ

I try to be fair but so far I dont see much positive on the GWB legacy front. Barney Frank goes on FNC every week and remind us all those socialist initiatives we decry were Bush initiatives.


47 posted on 06/27/2009 8:33:30 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: sickoflibs
It's OK. Bush was the person who tried to give us Harriet Myers - and as far as I could tell her only attribute was she told President Bush what he wanted to hear. She came across as a brown nose - and he came across as someone who "luved" having his ego massaged. It was shameful. And all that talk about "I don't read the polls" - what an idiot. That leaves him open to the fake letters dem PR firms send our guys - where they find sob stories and help the people write them - or just write them themselves. In short big ego manipulation. By Democrats who are laughing behind the silly Republicans backs...

So here's my suggestion - grab on to some principles and hold on. When our guys let us down, complain. When dems let us down complain louder.

When the press won't back the Iranian protesters because their "teachers pets" - the democrats - also cheat on elections, call them on it.

Pick your fights. Our guys aren't perfect - and some of their guys aren't awful. Play fair - be honest, and remember who's team you're on. If either side wants you to cheat or lie or compromise your integrity, run from them... If it's everyday garden variety flaws - work to overcome them - no one's perfect.

48 posted on 06/27/2009 12:00:02 PM PDT by GOPJ (Iran's leaders have the same values as ACORN & Alinsky- no wonder they assumed Obama wouldn't object)
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