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Open Letter to Freepers: The U.S. As You've Known It Is Already Dead
Reuters ^

Posted on 06/27/2009 7:41:27 AM PDT by quesney

While reading the following news story:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/motoringAutoNews/idUKTRE5406CF20090501

----------------

I was reminded two very important quotes from John Adams about the American Revolution:

* As to the history of the revolution, my ideas may be peculiar, perhaps singular. What do we mean by the Revolution? The war? That was no part of the revolution; it was only an effect and consequence of it. The revolution was in the minds of the people, and this was effected from 1760 - 1775, in the course of fifteen years, before a drop of blood was shed at Lexington. o Letter to Thomas Jefferson (1815-08-24), The Works of John Adams

What do we mean by the American Revolution? Do we mean the American war? The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations... This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. * Letter to H. Niles (1818-02-13)

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In other words, years before the American Revolution, there had been a revolution in people's minds about the way things were and the way things should be.

Forget the disputes over just how real are Obama's high poll numbers. This is beyond Obama, or even his current followers.

Whether we realize it or not, the US went through another mental revolution of thought over the past few decades -- maybe beginning as far back as the anti-war protests of the 1960s, maybe to Roosevelt's New Deal, maybe to Lincoln forcing a more centralized Union...whatever.

This revolution of thought has slowly eroded the entire mental foundation of the country's founding principles.

The U.S., as it was and as many of us here still think of it, is already gone. Dead. A number of us have not fully caught up to this emerging reality.

Obama, and Bush before him, are only making that obvious. Steele, Arlen Spectre, the feckless GOP, all the rest -- it's all part of bigger picture already drawn and entrenched, maybe even before many of us were born.

Many of us are holding onto a mental artifact that is gone or never existed in the minds of our "fellow Americans." That remains true no matter what happens to Obama, long after he's gone.

Does that mean we give up? No. But that if you're making a personal decision not to give up, you have to start thinking more seriously about follow-up to those Tea Parties and perhaps to secession.

The U.S. is, beyond everything else, an idea. When our "fellow Americans" no longer share the basic elements of that idea -- of even basic standards of mutual respect, logic, reason, civil discourse, respect for others as equals -- our "fellow Americans" are no longer our "fellow Americans."

Plan accordingly.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 111th; americanrevolution; bho44; cloakedvanity; cw2; cwii; donttreadonme; ideal; independenceday; lping; rapeofliberty; revwar2; usarip; ussa
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1 posted on 06/27/2009 7:41:27 AM PDT by quesney
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To: quesney

The Colonists believe they had no representation in their course. All the power was kept by Parliament, and the Crown. All through history you will see pivot points that almost always hinge on the lack of representation, or the hoarding of power, as we see with Obama and his Czar mentality. Revolution will happen again, but will it be too late...


2 posted on 06/27/2009 7:47:47 AM PDT by devane617 (Republicans first strategy should be taking over the MSM. Without it we are doomed.)
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To: devane617

One big point was ‘taxation without representation’....should have stated it more clearly.


3 posted on 06/27/2009 7:49:27 AM PDT by devane617 (Republicans first strategy should be taking over the MSM. Without it we are doomed.)
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To: quesney
-- our "fellow Americans" are no longer our "fellow Americans."

I've felt that way for some time. The ideological and cultural gulf is too wide now for us to ever be a united people. I often feel that this has been done to us willfully and systematically.

4 posted on 06/27/2009 7:50:51 AM PDT by VR-21 (The election of Barack Obama was a hate crime.)
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To: quesney

our “fellow Americans” are no longer our “fellow Americans.”

I would say our fellow Americans, might be closer to our mortal enemy.


5 posted on 06/27/2009 7:52:51 AM PDT by wita
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To: devane617
Revolution will happen again, but will it be too late...

Will there be a revolution if secession occurs?

What is Texas or Alaska decide to secede, providing a haven for like-minded Americans?

Do we turn over 49 states to the liberals and retain one for ourselves?

An even larger issue is do we turn over the United States, the most benevolent force for freedom in the history of mankind over to socialists? How long would a free Texas last if the other 49 states turned against it?

How long would a free Texas last if the rest of the world turned against it?

There is a very real possibility that conservatism may become extinct for a generation or two and that the revolution may take place decades or centuries from now.

We should all think about this before committing to one avenue (secession) or the other (revolution).

6 posted on 06/27/2009 7:55:16 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: quesney
This revolution of thought has slowly eroded the entire mental foundation of the country's founding principles.

Exactly!

7 posted on 06/27/2009 7:55:27 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (The only time I want a Republican reaching across the aisle is to smack a liberal.)
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To: quesney
From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

8 posted on 06/27/2009 7:56:37 AM PDT by kabar
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To: devane617

When our fellow Americans are openly cheering for U.S. military defeat (democrats, huffposers, hollywood, koskids, college professors, print and tv media) and jump up and down with joy when our soldiers are killed as they did for almost the entire Bush presidency, decent people should realize they’re not worth debating. Secession now!


9 posted on 06/27/2009 7:57:08 AM PDT by ccruse456
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To: devane617

America is dead and gone. What’s left is a land mass populated by cretins and parasites who have absolutely no respect for the military and who vote for big government to confiscate money from their neighbors and “redistribute” it to them. It is not an America worth defending anymore.

Whatever. I just live here.
Every man for himself.


10 posted on 06/27/2009 7:57:22 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: quesney

You gotta love the uplifting title. There are always two options — FIGHT for something you believe in deeply or GIVE UP. There is no promise in the first, no promise of victory. But there is the promise of giving yourself to something you believe in deeply. The second is a lot safer.


11 posted on 06/27/2009 7:59:43 AM PDT by bboop (obama, little o, not a Real God)
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To: quesney

I’d like to see the military rise up against the government and I’d be more then willing to support them like I do now. We took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against enemies both foreign and domestic.

The enemy is now domestic and it is the government. The executive and legislative branches of government are in direct violation of the Constitution.


12 posted on 06/27/2009 8:00:22 AM PDT by maddog55 (Socialism is communism with fewer re-education camps.)
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To: quesney

The Late, Great USA - July 4, 1776 - November 4, 2008


13 posted on 06/27/2009 8:00:34 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Iran's Cry for Freedom - Obama has blood on his hands! FUBO!!!!!!)
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To: quesney

No question that Roosevelt did a lot of damage, and before him, Woodrow Wilson.

But I would trace this back to 1968 and the Cultural Revolution. Vietnam was the focal point, but that was just an excuse. The war ended but the cultural revolution continued.

One key point was that you could get a draft deferral by going to graduate school and by going into the teaching profession. As a result, the anti-war protestors went into the colleges and the public schools in droves.

The reason we have so many un-Americans—maybe a third of the country—is that children are brainwashed by leftists from kindergarten through graduate school. As we know, conservatives have more kids than liberals—maybe twice as many—but then the liberals get to educate most of them.

Part of that was no doubt deliberate—”seizing the levers of power.” But part of it was an unfortunate side effect of the draft laws. All the leftists went into education and they took over. What was previously maybe 2/3 leftist became maybe 98% leftist, and ever since they have weeded out anyone who doesn’t think like they do. A few conservatives get through the cracks, but not many.


14 posted on 06/27/2009 8:01:01 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: bboop

Yep ya gotta love the lets roll over and play dead crowd.

In my grandfather’s day they called them cowards.


15 posted on 06/27/2009 8:02:05 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: devane617
Revolution will happen again, but will it be too late...

Thanks for the cheery morale boost, fellow Freeper.

If all is in vain, what do you recommend we do with the balance of our hopeless lives?

16 posted on 06/27/2009 8:03:51 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Succession is possible now because no one on the left has the guts to duke it out like Lincoln did to preserve the union. They’re all “anti-war”. The same techniques two bit dictators use to “negotiate” over long periods of time without actually doing anything should work.

But that won’t be necessary. This could be a bloodless “succession”, simply based on economics. Imagine a movement to simply reduce the amount of taxes paid by slightly increasing exemptions, times 50 million people. The obama administration would be instantly brought to their knees. They would have little recourse if the number of people was big enough. Their normal strategy would be to prosecute the leaders of the movement. But if properly structured using the internet the leaders would be impossible to identify.

I think this is the next logical step. Their cash flow is so critical now that just a little nudge at the margins makes the entire house of cards fall. The bond markets are already going into petit mal seizures over the volume of borrowing. If tax receipts fell by ten percent more it’s curtains (we’re already heading in that direction due to unemployment continuing to rise). It will be painful but they will be swept out of office and discredited, and we can rebuild later.


17 posted on 06/27/2009 8:05:16 AM PDT by drangundsturm
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To: quesney

Liberty is not dead until that last man who yearns to be free is.


18 posted on 06/27/2009 8:05:19 AM PDT by CrappieLuck
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To: quesney

http://www.constitution.org/col/jrb/00420_jrb_fedsoc.htm

“A Whiter Shade of Pale”

Speech of Janice Rogers Brown

April 20, 2000, Thursday

I will close with a story I like a lot. It’s a true story. It happened on June 10, 1990. A British Airways jet bound for Malaga, Spain, took off from Birmingham, England. It was expected to be a routine flight. As the jet climbed through the 23,000-foot level, there was a loud bang; the cockpit windshield directly in front of the captain blew out. The sudden decompression sucked Captain Lancaster out of his seatbelt and into the hole left by the windscreen. A steward who happened to be in the cockpit managed to snag the captain’s feet as he hurtled past. Another steward rushed onto the flight deck, strapped himself into the captain’s chair and, helped by other members of the crew, clung with all his strength to the captain. The slipstream was so fierce, they were unable to drag the pilot back into the plane. His clothing was ripped from his body. With Lancaster plastered against the nose of the jet, the co-pilot donned an oxygen mask and flew the plane to Southampton —approximately 15 minutes away — and landed safely. The captain had a fractured elbow, wrist and thumb; a mild case of frostbite, but was otherwise unharmed.

We find ourselves, like the captain, in a situation that is hopeless but not yet desperate. The arcs of history, culture, philosophy, and science all seem to be converging on this temporal instant. Familiar arrangements are coming apart; valuable things are torn from our hands, snatched away by the decompression of our fragile ark of culture. But, it is too soon to despair. The collapse of the old system may be the crucible of a new vision. We must get a grip on what we can and hold on. Hold on with all the energy and imagination and ferocity we possess. Hold on even while we accept the darkness. We know not what miracles may happen; what heroic possibilities exist. We may be only moments away from a new dawn.


19 posted on 06/27/2009 8:06:16 AM PDT by roses of sharon (We must get a grip on what we can, and hold on. Hold on with energy, imagination, and ferocity)
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To: Windflier

OK, genius, I did not hear you offer a statement in reply to the original post, or a suggestion. Instead of name-calling and bitching, why don’t you add a little brain power.


20 posted on 06/27/2009 8:06:57 AM PDT by devane617 (Republicans first strategy should be taking over the MSM. Without it we are doomed.)
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To: quesney

Thanks for the reference to John Adams. This was the main thesis of William Appleman Williams’ writings on the American Revolution. It’s good to see where his idea came from.


21 posted on 06/27/2009 8:07:03 AM PDT by Erasmus (Barack Hussein Obama: America's toast!)
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To: quesney

present


22 posted on 06/27/2009 8:07:53 AM PDT by gunnyg
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To: roses of sharon

q.v., “That Hideous Strength”, by C.S. Lewis


23 posted on 06/27/2009 8:08:08 AM PDT by P.O.E. ((optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: wita

Those “fellow Americans” to which you refer,
indeed, DO
want us dead.

Historically, collectivists, once they are in power,
used that power (of the state) to systematically
exterminate all individualists as “counter-revolutionaries”.

Like the author of the post said - plan accordingly.


24 posted on 06/27/2009 8:08:27 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: cripplecreek
ya gotta love the lets roll over and play dead crowd. In my grandfather’s day they called them cowards.

Here, here.

I really wish the doom and gloom crowd would start their own website to post their surrender diatribes. Call it Slave Republic, or some such.

25 posted on 06/27/2009 8:08:41 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: VR-21

I have felt the same. However, I do not go along with the idea that “the ideological and cultural gulf is too wide”. For me, that would be giving up on our country and letting those we disagree with take over. Yes, I think it has been done to us “willfully and systematically”, but that is part of the fight we must fight. When you get knocked down, you get and fight again or you may never be in a position to ever fight again. People that want to control us want you to believe that what you are feeling is the future. It will only be the future if we allow it.


26 posted on 06/27/2009 8:09:21 AM PDT by RC2
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To: The Sons of Liberty

This vote in Congress to cripple our economy and enslave the population was probably THE wakeup call for a lot of FReepers.

Some had pinned their waning hopes for a peaceful holding back of the communist/fascist tide by defeating kneecap & tax legislation.

You now see it as many of us already had. Another brick in the wall, another stepping stone to Rev 2.


27 posted on 06/27/2009 8:11:48 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: roses of sharon

Janice Rogers Brown is a Godly woman who belongs on the Supreme Court.


28 posted on 06/27/2009 8:12:00 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (Minnesota - You all can go to hell. I'm going to Texas.)
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To: devane617
Revolution will happen again, but will it be too late...

The damage that has been done is so massive that I agree. Tea parties will not do it. King Obama and the entire RAT party has put a dent in our fabric that will never be overcome without total revolution. In the meantime we are so venerable to our enemies that watch out!!!!

29 posted on 06/27/2009 8:12:26 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: CrappieLuck

Liberty is not dead until that last man who yearns to be free is hunted down and shot by the collectivists/elitists.

Make no mistake - they intend to.


30 posted on 06/27/2009 8:13:02 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: RC2

You’re not “letting them take over” when you pull the rug out from under them by removing all the productive capacity from their control!

What would they be left in charge of? A bunch of OTHER elitists that consider themselves “nobility”, and a bunch of trained parasites.

We take the country WITH US, and leave them with a shell of a utopia that will soon collapse.

The trick will be keeping their ilk out of the new America.


31 posted on 06/27/2009 8:15:07 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: quesney

bump for later, subject akin to my tagline


32 posted on 06/27/2009 8:15:20 AM PDT by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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To: devane617

Who’s “name-calling”, or “bitching”? Not I.

I asked you a simple question.

If all is in vain (as you claim), then what do you recommend we do with the balance of our hopeless lives?

No, I didn’t reply to the original post. I replied to your statement. Are you going to defend it, or are you just going to stand there accusing me of misconduct?


33 posted on 06/27/2009 8:15:44 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: MrB

I live in Michigan and the only way I’m leaving is toes up. This is where my great great grandparents settled and this is the only home I’ve ever known.

This is where I stand and this is where I’ll die.


34 posted on 06/27/2009 8:16:42 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: wita; VR-21; quesney; All

I don’t like being “Little Gretchen Sunshine” but I must respectfully disagree with your statement. Most people just want to live their lives without the government and the agendists on their back.


35 posted on 06/27/2009 8:17:49 AM PDT by fortunate sun (Tell me what books you want to ban and I'll tell you what type of politics you hold.)
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To: quesney

American Revolution

1/3 Tories...1/3 Patriots...1/3 Apathetic


36 posted on 06/27/2009 8:18:17 AM PDT by BlessingsofLiberty
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To: cripplecreek

Got any fellow “wolverines”?

That’s how you’ll do the best work.


37 posted on 06/27/2009 8:18:39 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Lancey Howard
"America is dead and gone."

You speak of America as some living mortal thing. How does one compare a plant or tree or even a creature to fire, an idea or a spirit?

Indeed the first perishes with time but the latter exists for eternity...

38 posted on 06/27/2009 8:19:03 AM PDT by Errant
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To: MrB

I’m too crippled to be of much use in a fight but I can damn sure do my best to starve the beast of tax revenue.


39 posted on 06/27/2009 8:21:11 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: roses of sharon

Excellent speech.


40 posted on 06/27/2009 8:21:56 AM PDT by WOSG (Why is Obama trying to bankrupt America with $16 trillion in spending over the next 4 years?)
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To: cripplecreek

That’s what we should ALL be doing at this point.
Galt now, Bowman later.


41 posted on 06/27/2009 8:22:15 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Windflier

Yup, It’s about time we had a real leader rise up. I will follow. I am starting to see the remainder of my life better spent in civil war or revolution than in the promise of what is to come if there is no resistance. If there is real civil war or revolution, we must always know we will will. Even if we do not, It still will have been worth it.Look at how many people’s lives were wasted in misery in Stalin’s Russia. For many, dying was a pleasant release from the lives they were forced to live.


42 posted on 06/27/2009 8:23:08 AM PDT by Quickgun
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To: cripplecreek
Yep ya gotta love the lets roll over and play dead crowd. In my grandfather’s day they called them cowards.

Yes, I agree but I think the freepers and not cowards but are discussing what to do against a corrupt Chicago/African machine. We are mad, and if it explodes, the vast majority of Americans will clean out Washington.

43 posted on 06/27/2009 8:23:08 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: CrappieLuck

“Liberty is not dead until that last man who yearns to be free is.”
- well said.


44 posted on 06/27/2009 8:23:53 AM PDT by WOSG (Why is Obama trying to bankrupt America with $16 trillion in spending over the next 4 years?)
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To: drangundsturm
Succession is possible now because no one on the left has the guts to duke it out like Lincoln did to preserve the union.

Agreed. The left is gutless, and wouldn't fight to preserve the Union. Why would they? They don't believe in the core values of the US and have spent two generations denigrating the men and women who have fought to preserve it. They believe the entire history of the US is one of racial and economic crimes.

But there is one other factor. At the time of the Civil War, many Unionists, inspired by a deep and abiding Christian faith, were willing to fight and die to prevent the expansion of slavery.

No such issue animates the left today. There is no issue they would be willing to die over. In fact, many leftists today would welcome the secession of "red states." Then they could live, so they imagine, in a world of perpetual "dialogue" with the "international community" abroad, and a cradle to grave overweening nanny state committed to "social justice" and "diversity" at home.

45 posted on 06/27/2009 8:25:55 AM PDT by mojito
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To: quesney
This time around, and I would have thought I would be the last to consider a point like yours with genuine concern, I would not argue with your urging to plan ahead.

Something is very wrong...and perhaps a huge turn around has been made regarding our foundations...and I am with those who believe that the foundations of this nation, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, are worth fighting for...no matter where we are.

46 posted on 06/27/2009 8:26:10 AM PDT by Republic (l)
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To: cripplecreek
I was born and grew up in the great state of Tennessee...the Volunteer State!

Thirty plus Tennesseans volunteered, fought and died at the Alamo.

My father & husband enlisted (WWII & Viet Nam)....because they love their country.....

..they came home....many didn't.

What did they fight for if we give up?

...I am sick and tired of being sick and tired!

I join you Cripplecreek!

47 posted on 06/27/2009 8:26:23 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: quesney

I am middle-aged and grew up in the fities and sixties,having been born just after WW2 ended.
I grew up in NYC,which was a bustling place where lots of things were made and the place had a solidity that was reassuring.
I will never forget the maps we got in school that showed where everything was manufactured.The USA of my early years was a muscular giant faced off against the forces of communism,and the beacon of freedom for the world.
The sixties brought out the slime that dominates in academia and congress nowadays.The industrial base of our country was dissipated and we are now all these years later on the downward slide to the cesspool of internationalism and third world values.
This president seems to have the degradation of America’s image as his mission.The ground was well-prepared by the leftist crap professors that schooled him.He is the symptom of a decades-long decline.
I am glad I will not be alive to see the denouement of this trend.
The people who made this country great are being betrayed in their graves by a misshapen amphibian like Henry Waxman and a scumbag witch like Nancy Pelosi.I wish the very worst on them.Their souls stink like an old,rotten cheese.


48 posted on 06/27/2009 8:26:52 AM PDT by steamroller
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To: quesney

I don’t buy that it is too late. The old cliche “It’s always darkest before the dawn” applies here IMO. It will get darker yet for awhile but the dawn will appear.

Why do I believe this? Because I have three sons between the ages of 18 and 25. I know their friends. One voted for McCain and is at least somewhat interested in politics. Another liked and voted for 0bama because of the “historic” and “cool” aura surrounding zer0 during the campaign (he’s an artist type.) He is now suffering severe buyer’s remorse. My other son is involved not at all in politics and forgot to vote.

So, I have raised my kids to have common sense but to respect their own freedom of choice. All three of them, as different as they are, will not stand in the long term for having their freedoms taken away and will, ultimately, stand up for their own rights. Their friends are the same way.

Combine this with the fact that most of the people are just now waking up to the debacle that is 0bama and the far left in this country and before 2012 the tide will turn.

I do not buy that zer0’s agenda is irreversible. I just don’t. If that were true then Carter’s cr@p would still be the predominant direction of the country. zer0 wouldn’t have to be overcoming the Reagan Revolution (with the unfortunate help of Clinton and GWB) right now.

So, there is ample reason to worry, plenty of incentive to stand up and be counted but not a single reason to panic. I trust the vast majority of the American people, as slow to action as they are, to prevail and that the 15-20% of hard leftists who have sway right now will be defeated by their own failing agenda. Theirs is a world view that is not sustainable and most people - enough to take them out of power - will ultimately vote for freedom over subservience.

Honestly I appreciate why some may have the despair seen in this open letter. I think I already know all the arguments in favor of this despair. But even if I agree that many of them are true I still don’t buy the final conclusion that it is too late.

I have faith in America and the Constitution even though they are both under severe attack. They will prevail IMO.

But not without a serious fight.


49 posted on 06/27/2009 8:28:38 AM PDT by paulycy (Liberal DOUBLE-STANDARDS are HATE speech.)
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To: mojito

No way Joe... the left does INDEED have an issue they’d be willing to kill for, if not die - not letting YOU live as a free man.

It is, again, about slavery. Then intend for us to be enslaved. We’ll be fighting for our own freedom.

No, no rank and file leftist will pick up a gun over it, because they expect the government to do EVERYTHING for them. But they will indeed urge and agitate for the gov’t to “put down” those who dare try to escape their thumb.


50 posted on 06/27/2009 8:29:35 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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