Posted on 06/27/2009 10:43:54 PM PDT by Steelfish
Will scandals inspire evangelicals to stray from Republican Party?
Cases like Gov. Mark Sanford's have undercut GOP assertions of moral authority. They could also reinforce some Christian conservatives' doubts about politics in general.
By Mark Z. Barabak
June 28, 2009
While Mark Sanford works to salvage his marriage, Republicans are facing the prospect of a different kind of breakup: religious voters walking out on the GOP.
A series of sex-related scandals over the last few years has undercut the party's assertions of moral authority and, worse, may serve to reinforce the doubts that many evangelical voters have traditionally harbored about the unholiness of the political realm.
"If we place our hope in a political party or a politician, we'll be let down," said Brandt Waggoner, 25, a student at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., who said he spoke for many young evangelicals. "My hope is in God and not in the government."
A sudden and overwhelming shift of Christian conservatives from the GOP to the more secular-minded Democratic Party appears unlikely. As Laura Olson, an expert on religion and politics at South Carolina's Clemson University, put it: "The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils."
But in politics, subtraction can be just as important as addition. If large numbers of evangelicals were to stay home on election day, or channel their activism into outlets other than politics, the GOP could suffer grave consequences; over the last generation, devout churchgoer voters have become an increasingly vital part of the shrinking Republican base.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
As if there were no scandals in the other party. If the scandals could be attributed tp membership in the party, then there might be reason to abandon the party. Since that is really a non sequitor, I would say the answer is no!
Translation: We hope, we hope, we hope.
In fact, the main thing that will turn Republicatn base voters away from the party is the failure to hold the line on taxes, spending, and the appalling growth of government.
“Scandals” are the least of the party’s problems.
wishful thinking on the part of Barabak
Behavior has consequences style Christians will not flock to baby killers
After Jim and Tammy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart and countless other evangelical problems, it is obvious that:
We ALL fall short of the Glory of God!
And, our job is NOT to act as Peter, at the Gates, deciding who gets into Heaven!
Our job is to help elect people who can then fight against bad ideas and bad laws, and fight FOR good ideas and good legislation.
You do not ask the cop, when he or she comes after a 911 call, if the cop is “faithful” to his or her spouse.
We need to focus on how Republicans VOTE, while in office.
Their private lives matter, only as a gage as to how we might trust them to keep their promises, on policy matters.
Yes, private scandals matter, but -—
If Republicans continue to be obsessed by these issues, we will eat our own, and our circular firing squads will guarantee that the leftists, atheists, Communists and radical Islam completely take over the world!
Ridiculous. As a Catholic, I never know if we are part of the Evangelical group. But, this ridiculous statement is like saying that because a few freaky priests decided to embarass the Catholic Church, we are all going leave the Catholic Church. This just does not make one ounce of sense. Another stupid author looking for attention.
I find the article to be worthy of a “C” in a second year college class. At some point, the journalist suggests that the church-goer crowd will still continue to be part of the decreasing base of Republicans? Where exactly is this decreasing base? You have barely one election where independents carried the weight of the Obama win...and without them...there is no Obama win. The Republican base is the same as it was ten years ago. This was third-rate journalism at best.
Doubt it...Evangelicals have plenty of their own marital baggage...
And go to a gay-loving, anti-christian party? What utter nonsense.
Will Scandals Inspire Evangelicals To Stray From Republican Party?
And go where? The party of abortion on demand?
only if you treat ppl as groups instead of as individuals
Ping for later
For better (a terrific execution of the war on terror) or worse (huge growth in government) evangelicals came out in droves to vote for George Bush. With McCain they had no reason to think that he would represent their beliefs.
That should mean something to the GOP leadership but it probably won’t.
The difference IS: Liberal Democrats are the TRAITORS; Conservative Republicans are the PATRIOTS! That is the bottom line.
Since much of Sanford’s support came from third party types, both on FR and bloggers and was a L Ron Paul clone, Republican Party not a real issue.
Yes, so true, you can add that to what I said....
LMBO!!!
Sure, if they're complete morons...
You can always trust a dying scumbag Democrat newspaper like the LA Times to come up with this same re-hashed "story" they ran after the Bob Livingston, Henry Hyde, Mark Foley, and Larry Craig scandals.
What you listed was excellent, I meant to add to it, not detract from it. Great post!
Evangelicals are the most conservative voters in America, as long as the republican party deals with it’s scandals then they will still be there but too many scandals for too long can make religious voters drop away from political participation.
*snort* Ain’t that the truth!
84% of white evangelical Republicans on the recent PEW poll give the thumbs up to Sarah Palin. I think because we are 40 months away from the 2012 vote, evangelicals will not desert Sarah Palin and she may be even to gain some from Sanford. Yes, I’m glad that the Sanford affair happened now, politically speaking.
These articles have one intent, to discourage Republicans and remind us that our people are imperfect.
And we continue to accommodate the left by swifting expelling those from our midst's who commit a transgression.
Someones record and strength in fighting for conservative matters little when we hear they did wrong and instead of offering forgiveness, we excommunicate our strong players, while the Democrats retain theirs and occupy more and more seats.
We have no one but ourselves to blame as we continue to fall for this nonsense and cast out those the left wants gone.
Where we gonna go? The party of Barney Frank, Spitzer, Clinton, Condit and Ted Kennedy?
“...too many scandals for too long can make religious voters drop away from political participation.”
Nonsense. Religious voters understand that Christians aren’t better than other people; we simply know how to forgive, be foregiven, and move on with the knowledge to not sin again.
What part of this is confusing to you?
Evangelicals could join the party of McGreevy, gay marriage and abortion on demand. Or maybe if they think the GOP is immoral then get to evangelizing.
Well the harshness of your tone is confusing some but that is all, too much cynicism and a sense of hopelessness can make some voters drop out of participation, it happened to a degree with Christians until the 1970s when they started becoming a force again.
Even in 2008 fewer evangelicals bothered to vote than had in 2004.
I want to know when the evangelicals who have been saved and thus, in their minds, gotten a get out of hell free card, are going to quit voting for the party of infanticide, rendering unto Caesar more than is Caesar’s, special rights for homosexuals, subversion of private property rights, etc. I’m acquainted with a few of those ecclesiastical bottom feeders, and related to a couple of others. They amen the loudest on Sunday morning and pull the “D” lever on the second Tuesday.
Any day now! (partial sarcasm) I know and am related to some of the same types you describe. And the most in depth 'religious' conversation I can have with them is "Are you saved"? Or God loves the sinner but hates the sin. Or 'turn the other cheek' Jesus said to. Yet they have this amazing passionate 'hate' for George W Bush that not even their own rhetoric can quell.
The harshness of my tone? Let me tell you about the insanity I encountered in 1986!
I attended a Republican precicnt meeting in 1986 after a six year enlistment in the U.S. Navy. There were no familiar faces at this meeting from when I’d last attended in 1979 but I sat and listened. It was disappointing.
The new Republican Party leader in the county was a Baptist minister and the majority of people in attendence that night were members of his congregation. They spent about thirty minutes discussing typical party business but the subject switched to how to encourage other churches to become involved. I thought that was odd and asked a woman sitting next to me what they meant: she said she had never voted before 1984 but assured me that by 1988 the country would be a theocracy, and how great and exciting that would be!
I got up to leave and was collared by the minister, who drew me to one side and said “Don’t come to any more meetings - we don’t want your kind here again!” As I was leaving I noticed that all the other women wore dresses while I had worn Levis.
Two years later that Baptist minister went to prison for molesting two of his female teenaged congregationalists. This is very sad, as I firmly believe that our nation is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs and such behavior weakens the moral authority some of us believe resides in the Christian Community.
Government should not be about imposing ones’ beliefs on others but finding a common bedrock of principles that all can agree on and live within comfortably. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness sums it up well, and frankly doesn’t appear in Barack Obama’s lexicon - we have a political and cultural enemy that must be dealt with, and soon. That trumps all other arguments within Conservatism. Wouldn’t you agree?
You said — “... Christians will not flock to baby killers”
—
But, as they article was saying, they may sit it out until a better crop of GOP candidates comes in later...
Is this an admission that there really is a difference between the two parties when it comes to personal morality? Or is it an attempt to plant a seed of division? Given the mixed track records within evangelical Churchianity itself, what with Jim Baker and so on, there is no Party of the Perfect to flee to.
But the record is clear: one party praises its cheaters for how well they cheat and the other party sanctions its cheaters.
You said — As long as we allow the left to keep scattering us, we will remain a minority party.
—
And as long as the GOP keeps fielding candidates that keep scattering us, we will remain a minority party.
It’s about time they start getting better candidates... :-)
You said — Nonsense. Religious voters understand that Christians aren’t better than other people; we simply know how to forgive, be foregiven, and move on with the knowledge to not sin again.
—
For an example of how Christians think about this, one can use the example of forgiveness of someone in the church for sins committed. If there is a leader in church who has committed some sin (similar to what these politicians do, like Sanford), that leader would receive the forgiveness of the congregation for his sin — but — he would be removed from leadership position and anything to do in the church, while being forgiven (if he had repented). And thus, he would not be allowed in again, in that church, although, after a certain remedial period of time and with the reconciliation time allowed to take place (within his family), that former leader *might* be allowed, after a considerable time, to assume some leadership position again, under the watchful eye of someone else.
I’ve seen that happen several times, personally in various churches.
NOW, in applying that to the “leadership” that the GOP is forwarding to its voting electorate, and if you’re taking about Christians (which apparently we were, I guess...) — then I would say that if the GOP is going to be consistently fielding “leadership” that is subject to “discipline” and the *removal* from leadership positions, then the entire voting electorate is going to start to think that the GOP is the problem and they don’t care about these values, in the respect that they don’t pay attention to it, monitor it and continually field candidates that seem bent on violating these kinds of standards just like the Democrats do.
This can certainly lead to the diminishing participation of the Christian voters over the short term, if the GOP keeps fielding these kinds of candidates and the GOP does not monitor “values” within their own leadership, before they become “exposed to the public” like they did with Sanford.
This Christian voting public is simply going to think that this exemplifies that the entire GOP leadership is just as corrupt in values as the Democrats are, and the GOP is simply “pandering” to the values of the voters and keeping these things “secret” within their inner circles and are really “Democrats in practice” in their secret circles... This is the thinking that will develop.
And this kind of thinking will not help the GOP with the Christian voters. It *will* cause diminishing participation among those Christian voters who are taking these values very seriously. And they won’t be going to Democrats, either, but staying away from *both corrupt parties*...
I agree that leaders, government or church, who’ve blown our trust should be removed from office. It is expected that they repent and ask forgiveness. To get back in everyone’s good graces they must EARN that respect. The Republican Party has a far better track record of exposing such behavior and taking appropriate action than the Democrat Party. The problem is that people aren’t perfect and predicting whether they’ll cheat on a wife, steal money, or never listen to their constituensts is impossible. So I am more inclined to point out to you that maybe deeply Christian voters should be more realistic in their expectations and not blame the party. It is not the fault of a church a handful of members sometime sin.
Polical parties do not function like large church hierarchies, as voters put politicians into positions of power and it is up to the media to keep us informed about their “extracuricular activities”. That said, it is up to the voters to decide whether or not they want to send that person back to congress, the state legislature, or the governorship.
Here’s my take on Sanford: if you can’t stay faithful to one woman, you’ll never stay faithful to your political principles either. He is out, I wish him well, but buddy - don’t you ever come to me asking for campaign donations!
The tough part is finding people who will not be seduced by the political culture. That means saint-like and nearly perfect, something I haven’t found in people yet, and that includes Christians.
Odd, where are they going to go? To the democrat criminal enterprise infecting DC?
There are a few such as the Chuck Baldwin types that have left or will leave but in the long run they make very little difference one way or the other.
Some articles are even written such as one a few weeks ago, where the title had John Doe, (Rep) (state) that most readers probably thought it was a Republican, even though it was a RAT.
Remember readers:
if no party affiliation is mentioned, it is a democrat.
Perfect example of the double-standards that must die.
Yeah, that’s right, it’s all teh Republicans fault, never the left or Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals used against us.
Sorry, but I have yet to meet a perfect candidate and think you will have a long wait seeking one.
But, you go right ahead and keep kicking out those the left brings up as imperfect, no matter how well they have represented the party or the country.
After all, we must appease the left and make ourselves seem pure, right?
So many of you just don’t get it.
Little wonder the party is splintered and going down the drain.
You can point all you want to the left and their problems, but as long as the GOP “leaders” simply “pander” to the voters’ values, instead of seriously adopting them, as in “living them” — it’s always going to be the problem of the GOP and not the left.
The voters will vote into office good leadership. You just have to have the good leadership put foward, and they have to live it...
I believe that these scandals are deliberately caused for political purposes. It is easy to bring most men down and our enemy(ies) know(s) just how to do it, from long experiences getting humans to fall. Long experience.
Yes indeedy. My hypocrite Democrat on 2nd Tuesday brother-in-law once told me that he was saved and that qualified him to tell me that I hadn’t done enough for my children. Paying for two college educations, feeding them, clothing them, cars, health care, nice vacations, making my son a man who is now a USMC Corporal and the father of my two sweet grandchildren...naw I haven’t done enough I guess.
All I can say is “LA Times.” They hope this happens. They know if we run a true conservative for President it will be lights out for Obama.
It isn’t “the left’s problems,” but our falling into their traps and ridding our power players from amongst us.
But, that’s okay, you keep pushing for a ‘Holier than thou’ party and I’ll seek conservatives that are ready to win elections.
You said — But, that’s okay, you keep pushing for a ‘Holier than thou’ party and I’ll seek conservatives that are ready to win elections.
—
And that’s the big problem here... because the conservatives without the values that the Christian conservatives are demanding of their leaders (and not the “pandering” to them, but “living it”) — cannot win by themselves. So, unless the GOP *gets honest* about this instead of the pandering to the Christians in the GOP, they’re going to keep losing to the liberals... (by being liberals in this particular values)...
So, good luck in your hunting...
And liberals are straying into the dangerous Nazi and communist cults.
When they take that final and fatal step to consolidate power, they’ll learn what terrorized the Boche in WW I - Americans can hit a target at 400 yards and better.
Perhaps one day you’ll discover that once the evangelicals took over the party, touting their ‘family values,’ and ‘Holier than thou’ attitudes, the left was given their target and have been using it ever since.
And people like you continue to accomodate them by holding us to different standards than Democrats are.
In the end, you puff out your chest and portray yourself as ‘pure” while we lose elections and the country continues the downward spiral.
Case in point, Mark Foley. While he was gay, he represented our side against the gay agenda. But even though he broke no laws, he had to go because the evangelicals were aghast that he was gay.
In the meantime, Democrats gained a seat and we lost support against the gay agenda.
But, we cleansed the party!
Once your politics becomes an extension of your church, you’ll lose. Mostly because others have a different theological view and don’t want yours in office.
Keep your church in church where it belongs, not in political office.
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