Skip to comments.Pastor Rick Warren to address American Muslims
Posted on 07/01/2009 1:24:15 PM PDT by Hawk720
Sayyid Syeed remembers an interfaith event several years ago when a Jewish leader went to embrace him, saw someone snapping a photo, then suddenly pulled back.
"He said to the man, 'Stop,'" Syeed recalled, "'I'll lose my job.'"
Times have changed for the Islamic Society of North America and for Syeed, who leads the group's interfaith outreach. In a sign of growing acceptance of U.S. Muslims, one of the most prominent religious leaders in the country, evangelical pastor Rick Warren, will speak at the Islamic Society's annual convention this weekend. Representatives from the two largest streams of American Judaism, the Reform and Conservative movements, will also be there to highlight their recently formed partnerships with the Muslim group.
"The landscape of religion in America is changing," Syeed said. "America itself has reached a certain level of fulfillment in terms of diversity of faith."
The Islamic Society, an umbrella association for tens of thousands of Muslims, has worked for years to persuade leaders of other faiths to attend its convention, a massive family reunion in its 46th year that draws about 30,000 people.
Major American Jewish groups had largely stayed away from the event, mainly due to hostility between U.S. Muslims and Jews over Israel, the Palestinians and the role of Hamas in the region.
Many conservative Christians did the same. They viewed Islam through their experiences with Muslim countries where Christian minorities have been targets of violence and discrimination.
Also, suspicions over the origins of the Islamic Society lingered. The organization grew from Muslim Students Associations, campus groups that had received funding from Saudi Arabia.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Oh I cannot stand thi$ money spinner fraud Rick Warren.
I’m already less than enthused about what Rick Warren, as a supposed pastor of the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ, is going to be saying to Muslims...
I hope it’s none of this... “We all worship the same God..” garbage...
Wasn’t he FOR Obama?
That tells me he has absolutely no discernment and is a fraud.
Does this Islamic organization DENOUNCE the oppression of religious minorities in Saudi Arabia?
Do they speak out that the death sentence on non-muslims who’d enter the segregated cities of Mecca and Medina is “extreme”?
Do they support the open exchange of religious traditions around the world, or is this about expanding the number of muslims around the world but capping growth of non-muslim faiths in muslim ruled countries?
Tolerance must be shown all around.
But he’s pro life and anti-gay marriage. That makes him a-okay! Right?
Is he going to speak at Jacko’s funerally.
A social gospel isn’t The Gospel.
*Osteen is handicapped by a psychobitch wife
I’m interested to see how he uses this opportunity.
I figure, they invited him knowing what he believes. So he may as well give it to them. Preach Christ, and deliver the invitation afterwards.
What he should not do is spend too much time looking for any artificial common ground. Preach it, and let them find the common ground. If he’ll do that, he’ll have my respect. You don’t get an opportunity like this very often. If he’ll be a bit bold it may go better than anyone would expect. The radicals won’t be listening, but they aren’t the only ones there.
I don’t know a whole lot about Rick Warren — however from what I have seen — he appears to have become one of those people who desires to be loved. And once you want the world to love you, you stop following Christ.
Ah, Rick Warren... Emergent [apostate] Church, anyone?
Gag. . .gag; cannot stand this! This is not humility speaking; but an arrogance; born of ignorance.
What’s with Rick Warren? I thought he would be in Columbia trying to counsel Mark Sanford.
Isn’t Rick Warren’s 15 minutes OVER?
Didn’t GWB on several occasion equate Mohammedism with Christianity? I may be mistaken .
You are not mistaken. He did, and he was wrong as well.
With his past, do you really think that he won't compromise in front of this Muslim group? Really?
He wants all faiths to participate in his "three-legged stool" (his mentor, Peter Drucker's communitarianism, which is government, business, and faith groups working together because the world's problems are to big for the Church to go it alone) to slay the five global giants (spiritual emptiness, lack of servant leadership, extreme poverty, pandemic diseases, and illiteracy).
He has been extremely vocal about this. Warren has said that he will find a "man of peace" in every village (could even be a Muslim) and work with them to promote the Purpose Driven agenda and slay the global giants.
Why would he risk offending those foot soldiers he is trying to recruit into his billion member Purpose Driven army with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
When first introduced, Warren's P.E.A.C.E. included the "P" for "plant churches". Now, the "P" has been updated to stand for "promoting reconciliation".
IIRC, Warren went on “Is Larry King Alive” AFTER California Prop 8 and reversed his position. He now supports homosexual marriage.
I’m far from amused.
I’d be happy to give him several pieces of my mind were I to bump into him on a subway.
Thankfully, God is his judge.
However, imho, he’s treading on ice so thin, he must be walking on water.
He clearly stated the Universalist doctrine that all paths of faith lead to God.
But we are also to judge rightly relative to false teachers and false teachings.
This one is a given.
He sure seems to be over a number of lines I wouldn’t want to cross.
What a FOOL. What has been the muslim’s attitude been since 9/11? The sound of crickets is deafening. The arab muslim terrorists attacked this country that they (non terrorist muslims) live in and there is nothing but silence. I have NO tolerance for that crap. The muslims that live here claim to be Americans, but I don’t believe that for a minute. They are loyal to Islam and by their silence, they agree with the terrorists actions. There are a few things that really piss me off, but this is high on the list. The muzzies around the world kill Americans and they stand silent. Their adopted country, the USA bends over backwards to accomodate them and where is the appreciation or even the acknowledgement? NOWHERE. Rick Warren is either blind to the obvious or just so misguided that he can’t see the forest for all the trees in the way.
If I were a guest speaker in a synagogue, I wouldn't quote the New Testament either. Nor would I open up a big bottle of Valu-Rite Vodka in a Baptist church even though I don't share their views on alcohol. It's called common courtesy.
Paul wrote clearly about a similar situation in 1 Cor. 10:14-32. "All things are lawful but not all things are helpful." Verse 32 says "Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God...." Why slam Rick Warren when he was clearly adhering to the teachings of the Bible?
No, he wasn't. I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this, but I hope that Rick Warren continues to reach out to Obama. Can you imagine how Obama would change if he became a true believer?
Jesus Christ loved me while I was still a sinner. He didn't require me to be perfect morally or theologically before I became a Christian. All Christians are obligated to love others into Christ's kingdom as well.
I agree fully. However, oftentimes we have to preach with our lives and our love and save the words for later. I'm not criticizing you but I'm suggesting that folks on this thread read Acts and see how Paul approached the Greeks on Mars Hill. He did not dilute his message but he did find common ground before he began to preach outspokenly.
Pastor Rick Warren,
This p.o.s. we have for a president is a vapid supporter of every possible form of abortion.
You sir are a supporter of him and you sir can go to hell.
I don't disagree with you, hence my use of the weasel word "artificial". And I'm glad you reminded us of Paul on Mars Hill. I wish I had thought of it.
I'm not criticizing Warren for speaking to a muslim group. I can't, I don't yet know what he will say.
I have talked to muslims and hindus about religion and there is certainly a way to find common ground that opens the door for a deeper discussion. You'll never get to that deeper discussion if you aren't respectful of the sensibilities of the people you are talking to.
And I will agree with you further that you have to preach with your life and your love. In a case like this your words are meaningless without context, and the context can only be modeled.
In a similar vein its hard to have a serious discussion about political philosophy with a foreigner who doesn't know me personally, because we don't yet have a common understanding, and the fact that I don't agree on some point looks like ignorance on my part to someone who doesn't yet know me. And furthermore, debates in which we beat each other with factoids are almost pointless because the factoids don't mean the same thing to him as they do to me. You have to find the common ground, and then work back.
So, I don't disagree with you.
I think what I was trying to say though is that he should not look for any artificial common ground. I've seen too many people lately apologizing for America in order to get to that supposed common ground, and its a mistake to do that. I wouldn't want to see him do anything similar. They know he's a Christian, they invited him to speak, so he should take the opportunity. Not to purposely offend, but to present Christ to an audience that, with the exception of the radicals, may not be as hostile as people might presume it to be. The average muslim believer very much believes in God. Thats your common ground.
He doesn't have to try to convince them that Islam is wrong. Thats not his job. He'll never breach that barrier. Just preach love, redemption, forgiveness, and preach it as if he assumes they already agree with him. Because if he does it right they will agree with him. Because they are muslims and they agree with him they will not necessarily process that those are uniquely Christian concepts. In their mind, how can those be "Christian" concepts if he's a muslim and he agrees? So the seed is planted. And then let the holy spirit do the rest.
But while you have to be respectful of the other man's sensibilities, and you always have to listen to the unspoken subtext, cheerful and unapologetic works a lot better than timid and bashful. It just does.
The Apostle Paul was constantly offending Jews with Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the reason that he was beaten; the reason that Jews rioted; and the reason Paul was arrested, imprisoned and finally martyred.
Read the book of Acts. Paul used to go into the synagogues to reason with the Jews from Scripture and to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. You will find that the Jews were offended. The Gospel offends. It is a stumbling block.
Where the Apostle Paul went into synagogues, boldly and unapologetically, with the purpose of sharing the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
Warren went into the synagogue with the expressed purpose of teaching the Jews how to grow their Christless synagogues and compromised, apologizing for the slipped mention of a New Testament reference, by failing to give the Good News of Jesus Christ to lost hell bound people.
It is outright foolish to say that Warren was adhering to the teachings of the Bible, here.
I love Acts 17. It really puts these debates to bed.
"Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ." ...But the Jews, becoming jealous and taking along some wicked men from the market place, formed a mob and set the city in an uproar; and attacking the house of Jason, they were seeking to bring them out to the people...the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews...many of them believed...but when the Jews of Thessalonica found out that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Berea also, they came there as well, agitating and stirring up the crowds."
Acts 17: 1-13
The Apostle Paul proclaimed the word of God to the Jews in the synagogues and Rick Warren apologized to the Jews for it.
Paul's evangelism effort in Athens was driven by anger at the widespread idol worship in that city. The men who brought Paul to Mars Hill did not understand his preaching/reasoning in the synagogue and marketplace. They called Paul's teaching about Jesus and the resurrection "babbling" and "strange".
This is what the Apostle Paul said on Mars Hill: "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, "TO AN UNKNOWN GOD." Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you...Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom he has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
I would not say that Paul's calling their idol worship "ignorant" was in any way finding common ground with them.
He called them ignorant; revealed the Biblical truth to them; and called them to repentance because one day they were going to be judged by Christ.
Too bad Warren defied the Apostle Paul's Acts 17 example!
If the Apostle Paul had followed Warren's example, Acts 17 would be changed to a delivery on how to grow the unbelieving crowds at Mars Hill through utilizing popular music, disco balls, ear-tickling stories and market studies (which is what Warren told Synagogue 3000 to do and what they actually did).
Cool! A big crowd of hell bound people worshiping idols of all sorts...
always asking questions, but never coming to the Truth...
But the laser lights, fog machine and hip music really create a great energetic/entertaining atmosphere, especially in front of the altar to the unknown god! The crowd is getting bigger and just loves it!!!
No, I don’t slam people.
I just don’t trust Rick Warren.
Syeed said that he and Warren, a Southern Baptist and author of "The Purpose Driven Life," have worked together on projects fighting malaria and advocating for people with HIV and AIDS.
The convention will not be the first time Warren has addressed an American Muslim group. Last December, he spoke at a meeting of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, a policy organization based in Los Angeles. But the Islamic Society gathering is by far his most dramatic display of friendship with U.S. Muslims. Warren would not comment ahead of the event.
Warren's Purpose Driven agenda and P.E.A.C.E. Plan excludes Christ, and His Good News, and is a social gospel driven organization that utilizes all faiths, all businesses and all governments. It is the dream of Warren's mentor, Peter Drucker. Peter Drucker is the father of "communitarianism", which uses the three-legged stool (government, religions, business) to solve social ills.
It certainly ain't biblical.
There is plenty of info out there on the emergent church.
This is the apostate “many ways to God, ignore the Bible” self-called Christian movement that Warren is simply one part of.
I think that Warren (Hybels, et al) and his Purpose Driven seeker sensitive followers, made straight the path for the emergent church.
They did so by entertaining people to death with the Sunday big show and burned everyone out with their program driven, market study, corporate model big box mega-churches.
This left people craving for something deeper; more relational than the big crowd at the big Sunday circus; something more "spiritual".
In comes the emergent church to fill the void. It has many of the same aspects of Warren's Purpose Driven agenda, and it is still seeker sensitive driven, but it takes mysticism, universalism, false teaching and the social gospel to a whole new level.
One thing about “seeker” oriented churches - Romans 3:11 says these people don’t even exist.
Warren did just the opposite of what the Apostle Paul did in his missionary journeys....Warren minimized the doctrinal differences between Christianity and the Muslim faith, encouraging them to not compromise their convictions (which is just plain unbelievable!), thereby giving ceredence to Muslim false worship and weakening the position of the absolute truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and asked for everyone to find common ground to work together to the slay the global giants.
The ones who couldn't see this coming are the ones who haven't paid attention, and/or who are unable to be discerning on any level, from the beginning of Warren's public ministry.
This is what a Christian Post (http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090705/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together/page2.html)recent article recounted about Warren's latest Muslim visitation (he has visited and worked with them over several years...this ain't the first time):
But despite the praises, Warren maintained his religious differences with the Muslim crowd and encouraged audience members to also not compromise their conviction.
You know as an evangelical pastor, my deepest faith is in Jesus Christ, Warren stated. But you also need to know that I am committed not just to what I call the good news, but I am committed to the common good.
He called on the members of the two largest faith communities in the world to not only figure out how to live in peace and harmony with each other, but also to find a way to work together for the greater good without compromising each groups convictions.
In his speech, Warren suggested that Muslims and Christians work together to challenge the mischaracterizations and stereotypes in the media about each others faith; to restore civility in America by showing that people can disagree without being disagreeable; and to promote peace and freedom, particularly freedom of speech and religion, together.
Let me just say this to those of you who have been in America for many generations now, Warren said, noting that they were gathered on the Fourth of July, Americas Independence Day. Part of your responsibility is to help the newcomers learn what it means to be Americans.
America is a country not built on race, not built on a creed, but built on an idea liberty and justice for all and freedom for all, Warren said as he called for citizen education.
He also gave a practical example of how Muslims and Christians can work together by pointing to his PEACE plan, a massive effort to mobilize one billion Christians to combat the five biggest problems in the world spiritual emptiness, corrupt leadership, extreme poverty, pandemic diseases, and illiteracy and lack of education.
In a western province in Rwanda, the PEACE plan has been implemented where imams and pastors are invited to attend healthcare training sessions. Those religious leader in turn help mobilize their congregants to also receive healthcare training. By the end of this year, Warren said, a province where there was only one doctor for 750,000 people will have over 1,500 trained healthcare workers.
The acronym PEACE stands for promote reconciliation, equip servant leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.
Warren acknowledged that it will not be easy to work together because of the criticism from conservatives from both religions, but he urged both groups to work together for the common good.
You know what I discovered is when you walk down the middle of the road you get hit coming and going, the evangelical pastor said. Actually, it is easier to be an extremist of any kind because then you only have one group of people mad at you. But if you actually try to build relationships, like invite an evangelical pastor to your gathering, youll get criticize for it, so will I. But that is not what matters, he said.
JUST PLAIN AWFUL!!!!
One almost wonders if the oligarchy and ET’s have kidnapped the original and replaced him with a robotized clone.
I think that does it, for me.
Calling an agent of the enemy a Bro is nonsensical.