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To: presidio9
I don’t believe Mr. Obama has any religion. I doubt that he has much of a concept of a Higher Power either.

Worth-noting-and-repeating bump.

In this he follows Lincoln, who is said to have been (by various people) an agnostic, a deist, or even an atheist, despite his use of commonplace religious references in his speeches -- even important ones, such as those in which he spoke of the Civil War's being the work, and the judgment, of heaven.

23 posted on 07/01/2009 9:19:59 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
I believe Lincoln was sincere in his Christian beliefs and ideals: That his pride caused him to stumble is fairly apparent. He was human.

It's difficult to know what God intends in one's life, if that one is blinded and deafened by pride and impatience. Lincoln felt he had the direction and approval of God. Maybe he did. A good bit of historical evidence shows that he was, rather, led by other men's passionate persuasions; worried about shameful legacy; got in too deep, driven by his self-inherited righteousness, to the point where he could not back down. Pride. He used slight-of-hand and deceit when dealing with the Confederacy...treating it as a criminal enterprise, rather than another nation...a status to which those states were entitled; a status which was legally obtained with consent of the citizens of those breakaway states, in accordance with law and ideals. The end justified the means, however, for Abe; although he seems to have had many regrets, and a troubled conscience.

But I cannot read his words without a genuine feeling that he meant what he said..when he said it...about God.

Many profess, all fall short. No exceptions.

MHO

35 posted on 07/01/2009 9:45:20 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: lentulusgracchus
In this he follows Lincoln, who is said to have been (by various people) an agnostic, a deist, or even an atheist, despite his use of commonplace religious references in his speeches -- even important ones, such as those in which he spoke of the Civil War's being the work, and the judgment, of heaven.

There is a consensus in the medical community that Lincoln suffered from Bi-Polar Disorder. The disease is suspected in other presidents throughout history, but generally accepted for Lincoln. Bi-Polar sufferers endure periods of great despondency, despair and depression interrupted by periods of great productivity and generally high spirits. Knowing this, it becomes difficult to get much of a handle on what Lincoln believed (or didn't believe) unless he consistently repeated the same message. The fact that he was constantly dealing with enormous personal, professional, and national tragedy doesn't help matters.

This is, of course, not all of the answer, but part of the answer. Another big part is the fact that almost from the minute Lincoln died "friends" began stepping in to assassinate his character. To this day, you will find thousands of people here on FR who are convinced that this nation's greatest president, a Republican, was a racist and a scoundrel.

80 posted on 07/05/2009 12:12:42 PM PDT by presidio9 ("Don't shoot. Let 'em burn.")
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