A verbis ad verbera
Posted on 07/07/2009 9:04:44 PM PDT by TaraP
An Idaho community had secured an Air Force flyover for its local festival every year for more than 40 years, organizers say, but this year, the Air Force turned the request down over the festival's religious focus.
The God and Country Family Festival in Nampa, Idaho, applied to the Pentagon for the flyover but was denied in an e-mail, board member Patti Syme told KTBV. Syme said the e-mail from a defense official informed her the Pentagon prohibited support of special interest groups.
"I called him immediately and just said, you know hey we've been doing this for 42 years, we've had flyovers, what is the problem?" Syme told KTBV. "And he said, well we have looked up your Web site and everything on your Web site seemed to focus on Christianity, ministry booths. And he said, in fact, ma'am it sounds like it focuses on Christianity. And he said, in fact, it would be great to go to, in fact, if I personally, could come I would, but we can't endorse such an endeavor, so they couldn't do the flyover."
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
These flyovers are a waste of taxpayers’ dollars. I’m fine with it as long as they don’t do it at a Muslim rally instead.
It’s not the Air Force. It’s Obama.
And we wonder why our Country is going to H*ll in a handbasket...
Um. It’s not a waste of taxpayer dollars. Our pilots have to fly a set amount of hours per month. It’s part of their continuing training.
Sounds reasonable to me. As much as some may want to obtain support for their private religious views, the government has to be careful about endorsing such views. What I think some people forget is that small measures like this, which maintain the no establishment clause of the Constitution, also help protect religious freedom from infringement by the power of the government. If you seek governmental favor of your religion, be aware that what is favored today may fall into disfavor tomorrow. Better to maintain a separation from government and let religious ideas stand or fall on their own merits; without bias inflicted by governmental predilection.
And you need look no further than comment No. 2 for an indication of what I mean.
Can’t they do that at, like, an air force base?
Sure. If all they do is fly in 3 mile radius circles. Where do you think maneuvers happen? They happen over thousands of square miles, including fly-overs.
This is what happens when a repressive regime starts putting its thumb down hard. All the people down the totem pole begin to fear offending the Lord. And people like Rodebrecht just say “it’s a waste of taxpayers’ dollars.” It’s not a waste, it’s a demonstration of the fighting power that we have now, but will not have after The Messiah finishes slicing and dicing the military into a bunch of people baking mud pies. Somewhere along the way, we lose the country and the right for stupid people to make stupid comments.
Actually, according to the founders, separation of church and state was intended to keep the state from restricting religions affairs. It was never intended by the founders to keep things like the 10 commandments out of court houses, etc. Any other interpretation is completely revisionist.
Wait, this isn’t like a Thunderbirds thing, where they fly about spraying red, white, and blue contrails? That’s what I think is a waste of money. But if this simply happens during the course of training maneuvers it’s all cool.
Wonder why they went to DoD and not to Mountain Home ID or Hill AFB UT for the flyover. It used to be a local decision as part of the training. So now DoD tells the AF when they can do flyovers? Sitting here shaking head.
If it had been done for 40 years, it should have been a routine request that was approved. Only difference is ZERO’s people in the DoD.
ZERO’s people in the DoD.
Exactly!
So you say.
Don’t you see that restricting religious affairs is just the other side of the coin from favoring religious affairs?
Would you like the Air Force to fly over Muslim events?
Scientology events?
Wiccan events?
I know some people, if not you personally, would have problems with that (see comment No. 2 as an example).
The separation of church and state is a logical outcome of the prohibition on establishing a state religion. It’s not “completely revisionist.” It’s been a principle in effect since the earliest days of this nation. The Treaty of Tripoli is a good example.
These flyovers are a waste of taxpayers’ dollars. I’m fine with it as long as they don’t do it at a Muslim rally instead.
Another "waste of money" perhaps?
---------------
The complaint:
'Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for the morning air show? Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 A.M, a tight formation of four F-16 jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell Road at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune! Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were they trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns early bird special? Any response would be appreciated.
The response:
Regarding 'A wake-up call from Luke's jets' On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four- ship fly by of F-16s from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the grave of Capt. Jeremy Fresques. Capt Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously stationed at Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day.
At 9 a. m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and friend. Based on the letter writer's recount of the fly by, and because of the jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing of taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I gave them their son's flag on behalf of the President of the United States and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the sacrifices they have endured..
A four-ship fly by is a display of respect the Air Force gives to those who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional aviators and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate respects.
The letter writer asks, 'Whom do we thank for the morning air show? The 56th Fighter Wing will make the call for you, and forward your thanks to the widow and parents of Capt Fresques, and thank them for you, for it was in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of their lives.
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr.
USAF
I have no problem with the Air Force flying over any events.
Uh, yes, actually, they're doing that every day in Afghanistan.
With Reapers and Predators.
Flyovers are usually where the planes just line up and fly over in formation. Like you would see at a NASCAR or Indycar race. We’re not talking about the Thunderbirds.
Completely different than entertaining people at a fair.
The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels are great recruiting tools. I don't think providing for our future security is a "waste of money." OTOH, the $72 million just sent to Zimbabwe (translate: to Robert Mugabe) most certainly is.
It's a matter of priorities.
---
Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
www.AnySoldier.com
Well, I do; from an economics and resource allocation perspective. But I appreciate your open-mindedness. Not everyone shares that.
Now THAT is Change!
Heh. Yep.
God save us from nation destroying morons.
We have become a collection of people that share geography but we are most certainly no longer a nation. The balkanization of the US is complete.
As was pointed out earlier, since AF pilots have to perform constant training missions anyway, a flyover could be one of them -- in part or in total. Further, it's a great recruiting tool and good public relations.
Where it can be done, it should be done.
---
Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
www.AnySoldier.com
Yep, as demonstrated by Congress, in the early days after the Revolution, approved the first printing of the English Bible in the states for the espress reason "a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use in schools"... and they then commissioned that printing, and officially endorsed it.
And the early textbooks for public schools - reading primers, that used Bible verses to teach reading.
Or John Jay, President of the Continental Congress during the Revolution, Secretary of State under Washington, and the original chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court who forcefully declared (in his roll as Chief Justice!): Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers; and it is the duty - as well as the privilege and interest - of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
Or the 1892 U.S. Supreme Court decision that stated "No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people.... This is a Christian nation."
There are so many ways the government needs to avoid looking like it supports any one religion...
FREAKING OBOZO DESTROYING AMERICA YET IN ANOTHER WAY!!!
But he sends AF-1 up tp buzz Manhattan with his friends on a scenic joy-ride terrifying Millions of Manhattanites sohis friend George Lucas can get the required movie shots for his Black History Documentary!! OBOZO AND AYERS HATE AMERCA!
YO! Thet have been receiving the flyovers for 40 years! Are you so blind that you don’t see the Obozo Message?
Stupid people say and du stupid things, dont they? Like voting for a KENYAN Dictator and defending the Dictator’s Trashing of Our Proud Military and Our Great Military with commnts like allegely Saving Money on Traditional Flyovers when the Dictator is throwing it away on buying Illegal Votes and supporting Terrorist Murderers and Dictators like IRAN, Chavez, Castro and others:-)
AMEN! ZERO TURNING AMERCA INTO THE 58th MUSLIM CALIPHATE!!
When are people going to understand that ZERO declared America isn’t Christian and in the next breath praised America for being MUSLIM!!!
I’m all for Air Force flyovers at Muslim events. There is some good footage of this up at YouTube and such.
;-P
This is the start of the military becoming less the people’s military and more the military of certain interests. I’ll bet there would have been no questions asked of the flyover was requested for a Muslim festival for fear of “offending” them.
note no response...probably has no idea what Everson is either..
man, the ignorance and barinwashing amongst many young “conservatives” is scary
So you're not opposed "wasting taxpayer's money" for a flyover for at a fallen serviceman's funeral, but you are opposed to 'wasting' the same amount for a flyover to entertain thousands of taxpayers.
Got it.
I suppose if you were the Air Force Secretary your first decree would be to convert the Thunderbirds Aerial Demonstration Team to the Thunderbirds Funeral Flyover Team.
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
"When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it."
-- John Adams, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion
"Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents."
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, December 3, 1813
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, July 16, 1814
"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
-- John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because of suspected heresy? Remember the Index Expurgato-rius, the Inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter, and the guillotine; and, oh! horrible, the rack! This is as bad, if not worse, than a slow fire. Nor should the Lion's Mouth be forgotten. Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years."
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814, quoted by Norman Cousins in In God We Trust: The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1958), p. 106-7, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion
"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity."
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831. One might expect a modern defender of the Evangelical to play with the meaning of "Christianity," making it refer only to a specific brand of orthodoxy, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans, second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15
"Some members of the organized church branded [Adams] as an atheist."
-- John McCollister, like his father John Adams, John Quincy Adams was a Unitarian, which, back then, meant the same thing as a "Deist," quoted from the Joint Baptist Committee's pamphlet, "Critique of David Barton's 'America's Godly Heritage'";
"Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson, considering three different explanations for why sea shells would be found at higher elevations than one should reasonably expect an ocean to have existed, in Notes on the State of Virginia
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
"... the Common Law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced or knew that such a character existed."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright, June 5, 1824 (see Positive Atheism's Historical section)
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Christianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address.
"For we know that the Common Law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement of England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the Common Law ... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the Common Law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it ... That system of religion could not be a part of the Common Law, because they were not yet Christians."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address.
"... [A] short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State; that the purest system of morals ever before preached to man, has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions, into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves; that rational men not being able to swallow their impious heresies, in order to force them down their throats, they raise the hue and cry of infidelity, while themselves are the greatest obstacles to the advancement of the real doctrines of Jesus, and do in fact constitute the real Anti-Christ."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Samuel Kercheval, 1810
"If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally, that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814, using the term atheist to mean one who lacks a god belief, not one who is without morals, as was a common use of the term in Jefferson's day
"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price from Paris, January 8, 1789.
"Every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of God."
-- Thomas Jefferson, arguing that Chrisian exclusivism (via the idea of an exclusive revelation) degrades the credibility of the Christian religion, in a letter to John Adams, 11 April 1823 (capitalization of god per original)
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever a man worshiped a false god, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious, attributes of Calvin."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Works, 1829 edition, vol. 4, p. 322, quoted from Franklin Steiner,
"Of publishing a book on religion, my dear sir, I never had an idea. I should as soon think of writing for the reformation of Bedlam, as of the world of religious sects. Of these there must be, at least, ten thousand, every individual of every one of which believes all wrong but his own."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Rev Charles Clay, rector of Jefferson's parish church in Albemarle County, Va., January 29, 1815
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.... what has no meaning admits no explanation."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Alexander Smyth, January 17, 1825
"The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere relapses into polytheism, differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible. The religion of Jesus is founded in the Unity of God, and this principle chiefly, gave it triumph over the rabble of heathen gods then acknowledged."
-- Thomas Jefferson, equating the Dogma of the Trinity with polytheism and calling it more unintelligible than paganism, in his letter to Rev Jared Sparks upon receipt of the latter's latest book (November 4, 1820)
"The hocus-pocus phantasm of a god like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822
"A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, October 7, 1814, referring to the University of Virginia
I can’t see Muslims wanting it, for obvious reasons. Most Wiccans tend to be hippy-dippy peaceniks. I don’t know enough about Scientology to made too educated of a comment, but I can’t see that either...they’d want spaceships not fighter jets. :-)
Isn’t it amazing that the US existed for 171 years, basically endorsing Christianity, and then with one SCOTUS case, all that (including many prior SCOTUS rulings to the contrary) was negated.
Just goes to show how true John Jay’s statement was (as I posted)... WE chose ungodly leaders, what do we get? Eventually, we get an ungodly (”Not a Christian Nation”...).
Israel went through nearly the same situation (more than once). Established by God and in obedience to God. But then they wanted a “king” like “other nations”. A very small number of the kings of Israel (and after the split - Judah too) were godly - and the nation suffered judgment.
And as an historical side note... Notice when the Everson case went through - the real nail in the coffin for our Christian Nation - went down - right in the middle of the world-wide Communist revolutions (and what has every Communist regime done - outlaw Christianity, or limit such practice to state-sanctioned version).
1917 Communist Revolution in Russia (October Revolution)
1926-1949 Chinese Revolution/Civil War
1941-1945 - Communist Revolution in Yugoslavia
1945 “August Revolution in Vietnam
1954 Battle of Dien Bien Phu (First Indochina War in Vietnam) which brought Communist Party of Vietnam to power in North Vietnam.
1948 - “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea - AKA - the Soviet-pushed Communist Revolution.
1959 - Communist Revolution in Cuba
Connection??? And the current accelerated attempts to shut down pastors in the pulpit (”Hate Crimes” legislation) and to finish removing all traces of Christianity from public places (though Islamic and other religions are A-OK to push their “culture” in public and in schools) just happens to be so much like those revolutions above - just stretched out and done little at a time (how do you eat an elephant?).
171 years of US History (when not hidden or lied about by liberals) cries loudly that the US at least WAS a Christian nation, set up on Christian principals. The founders intention (as Jefferson was trying to get across in his letter so often taken out of context to justify the “separation claus”) was that the congress was not to establish a STATE church (consider what many of the early settlers to the Americas had come from - Church of England, Catholic state church, Lutheran state-church, etc.). Their intent was NEVER to removed Christianity from government or the public square. Only to prevent a “Church of America” that ruled as was the case in Europe at the time.
Actually, the yellow text that says that being a “Unitarian was the same as Deist” is not correct. A deist is a fairly large step beyond Unitarian, though even today, the term Unitarian is not quite the same as the meaning of the term 200 years ago.
A Deist basically believes in “God”, but a God that is much more disconnected from His creation than Christianity believes. The simplest explanation - God created the world/universe/etc much like a watchmaker makes a watch. The creator then wound up the watch (put creation into motion) and then just stepped back and observes what happens with no direct influence by the creator’s hand.
Unitarians, at the time of reference, essentially was a rationalized version of Christianity. The first Unitarian church in America was formed in 1785 when members of King’s Chapel, Boston, voted to remove all mention of the Trinity from the service. The movement did not really begin to expand until 1819 when William Channing preached a sermon in Baltimore where in which he developed Unitarian doctrine. Their core doctrines were:
The “goodness” of man
Salvation by character culture (being a good person)
The unity of God
The humanity of Christ
The immanence of God in the human heart.
John Adams adopted Unitarianism late in his life, and some believe it was related to his old age, crankyness, and frustration at what “the church” represented, especially in other parts of the world - and to this, I can hardly argue with his frustration. In his later life, his distrust for clergy in general grew in likely proportion to his age and maybe even a bit of dementia. Add to that his marriage to a woman who had grown up with a liberal “Congregationalist” pastor father who moved to unitarian beliefs - and it is no wonder that he eventually espoused such beliefs.
But lets not forget that this same John Adams was also the one who gave us this bit:
“As no truth is more clearly taught in the Volume of Inspiration, not any more fully demonstrated by the experience of all ages, than that a deep sense and a due acknowledgment of the growing providence of a Supreme Being and of the accountableness of men to Him as the searcher of hearts and righteous distributor of rewards and punishments are conducive equally to the happiness of individuals and to the well-being of communities....I have thought proper to recommend, and I hereby recommend accordingly, that Thursday, the twenty-fifth of April next, be observed throughout the United States of America as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that the citizens on that day abstain, as far as may be, from their secular occupation, and devote the time to the sacred duties of religion, in public and in private; that they call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore His pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgressions, and that through His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience to His righteous requisitions in time to come; that He would interpose to arrest the progress of that impiety and licentiousness in principle and practice so offensive to Himself and so ruinous to mankind; that He would make us deeply sensible that “righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people” [Proverbs 14:34]”.
John Adams, “National Fast Day,”
What you said could be true, but still, these people have been pretty bold to say and write what they did, in the early 18th and 19th centuries!
I cannot imagine presidential candidates today being capable of speaking their minds like the way the Founding Fathers did. Obama had to profess his faith, or the lack thereof, for mere vote-bank politics.
Deism is pretty close to Atheism, in that the ‘God’ is disconnected from the present. Owing to the knowledge of science at the time, that was a pretty courageous belief, too. The Deists of those times, would be the Atheists of today.
you know....having studied English history extensively I can say that I am surprised by that assertion by TJ, he is 80% wrong on that....the Anglo Saxons at the time they invaded Christian Pax Romana Britannia had very little common law...they assimilated much Roman Britain custom promptly including Christianity quickly as they themselves soon found themselves fighting off Viking raids and incursions in soon to become Danelaw. Before England the Saxons were marauders forced from Holstein by successive other Teutonics moving west from the steppes.
Their first true self governance in permanent territorial form was in Britain precisely when they were Christianized.
And that is one of the issues with the claim that J Adams (and others) were Deists, when some were actually more Universalits- who do believe in God and his power and authority. Their big issues is they deny the full deity of Christ - instead believing that Christ derived his power from God, but was a man that was endowed with power, not that Jesus was actually God in the flesh. We also tend to be mislead by more recent developments in Unitarianism - such as Unitarian-Universalism which is far closer to Atheism or Deism than the form of Unitarianism that was starting in the early 18th Century. Unitarians in Adam's time were fore more "Christian" than Unitarian-Universalists.
The variety of Universalism that Adams adopted later in life, much because of his growing distrust of the ministry in general from the continued persecutions BY organized church, was really a slightly watered-down Christianity - they still followed the teachings and precepts of Christ, they just questioned His full or pure deity.
I beg to disagree. Any Atheist who admits there is a God is not an Atheist. Deism confesses a God, just not a God that actively interacts with His creation. This is a far cry from Atheism, even as expressed today.
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