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Episcopal Bishop calls individual salvation 'heresy,' 'idolatry'
One News Now ^ | 7/9/2009 | Staff

Posted on 07/09/2009 6:03:13 AM PDT by IbJensen

ANAHEIM, CA - Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori says it's "heresy" to believe that an individual can be saved through a sinner's prayer of repentance.

In her opening address to the church's General Conference in California, Jefferts Schori called that "the great Western heresy: that we can be saved as individuals, that any of us alone can be in right relationship with God."

The presiding bishop said that view is "caricatured in some quarters by insisting that salvation depends on reciting a specific verbal formula about Jesus."

According to Schori, it is heresy to believe that an individual's prayer can achieve a saving relationship with God. "That individualist focus is a form of idolatry, for it puts me and my words in the place that only God can occupy."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; bible; christianity; communistgoals; doctrinesofdemons; falsedoctrine; falseprophecy; falseprophets; frankfurtschool; gramsci; moralabsolutes; theology
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In a few short sentences the priestess babbles like an obomba sycophant. She has uttered such a convoluted thesis that it's amazing that someone this obviously stupid would be allowed to speak.

At any rate, the Episcopal Church and Priestess Shori are toast.

1 posted on 07/09/2009 6:03:13 AM PDT by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen

God to bishop you are fired


2 posted on 07/09/2009 6:04:47 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: IbJensen

Paul told one church to get rid of a “Jezebel” that had arisen to lead many astray!


3 posted on 07/09/2009 6:05:57 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: IbJensen

spirit of Jezebel


4 posted on 07/09/2009 6:06:24 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: IbJensen
The presiding bishop said that view is "caricatured in some quarters by insisting that salvation depends on reciting a specific verbal formula about Jesus."

Those who recite a "specific verbal formula" handed down to them through the centuries are far less likely to be off in the weeds like this bishop.

5 posted on 07/09/2009 6:06:32 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: IbJensen

Sounds a lot like the new Dean of the Harvard Divinity School (which is essentially an Episcopalian entity) publicly declaring that abortion is “a blessing”.


6 posted on 07/09/2009 6:07:14 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: IbJensen
Sounds pretty Fundy to me ~ they get into this business of "group guilt" a lot.

I think the problem here is that we are hearing it from someone in the Anglican tradition and they rarely talk about "group guilt", or even "individual guilt" ~ my goodness, they'd lose ALL their wealthier members you know ~ pews would be emptier than usual.

7 posted on 07/09/2009 6:07:52 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen

Episcopal Church Bureaucracy Support Act.

No getting to the Father without the official priest class getting a big, fat cut of the action.


8 posted on 07/09/2009 6:08:45 AM PDT by Leisler ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged."~G.K. Chesterton)
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To: IbJensen

1 Timothy 2:
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.


9 posted on 07/09/2009 6:08:50 AM PDT by uptoolate (Repent America and turn from your wicked ways.)
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To: IbJensen

In all actuality, it is not the prayer that saves you, it is the substitutionary death of Christ and his resurrection. The prayer just acknowledges what He has already done, but it’s not heresy or idolatry by a longshot.


10 posted on 07/09/2009 6:08:54 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: IbJensen

This is a trend not only in the Episcopal church, but in evangelical ones as well. Believe it or not. I haven’t heard anyone go this far, that individual salvation is heresy, but I’m not surprised.


11 posted on 07/09/2009 6:08:57 AM PDT by twigs
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To: IbJensen

Sounds like this Bishop needs to read the Bible a bit more.

That’s what astounds me about all these religions. The answers are right there in front of them. All they have to do is look ‘em up.

Whole lot of people are going to be surprised come judgment day.


12 posted on 07/09/2009 6:09:29 AM PDT by TheZMan ("I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.")
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To: IbJensen
In her opening address to the church's General Conference in California, Jefferts Schori called that "the great Western heresy: that we can be saved as individuals, that any of us alone can be in right relationship with God."

So that means we can only be saved as a group like in a class where everyone working on a project gets the same grade? I sure hope my group doesn't include any pastors promoting buggery in opposition to explicit instructions in the Bible.

13 posted on 07/09/2009 6:09:36 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Chrysler and GM are what Marx meant by the means of production.)
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To: IbJensen

This the same woman (I refuse to call her Bishop) who referred to Tiller as a saint and a martyr. How proud members of the Episcopal Church must be, having this person as head of their church. Almost as proud as they much have been when their gay bishop in NH announced that he’d always wanted to be “June bride”.


14 posted on 07/09/2009 6:09:37 AM PDT by Jackson57
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To: IbJensen

I’m glad this bishop knows exactly how God judges our souls...now He can take the day off...


15 posted on 07/09/2009 6:09:49 AM PDT by Zeppelin (Where have you gone, Joe McCarthy, oh? A nation turns illiberel eyes to you...oo oo oo...)
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To: IbJensen

The very definition of evil if you ask me.


16 posted on 07/09/2009 6:10:32 AM PDT by DB
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To: Vince Ferrer

Which is more important? A personal relationship with God through his Son, Jesus? Or reciting some mantra created out of whole cloth by a religious group? Jesus said, no one comes to the Father but through me. He didn’t say, through some priest or religious ceremony.

This is why so many “religions” are suffering a loss of members. A severe disconnect between the Bible and the teachings; and it’s across the board, from Baptist to Catholic.


17 posted on 07/09/2009 6:10:42 AM PDT by rstrahan
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To: IbJensen

She’s right on one point. A prayer of repentance and submission ALONE won’t save UNLESS it reflects one’s heartfelt faith.

Romans 10:8-10 (New International Version)

8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Footnotes:

1. Romans 10:8 Deut. 30:14


18 posted on 07/09/2009 6:11:41 AM PDT by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: IbJensen

“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).

There it is, I really don’t need to see anything else.


19 posted on 07/09/2009 6:11:50 AM PDT by Cicero5
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To: TheZMan

Another thought. This Bishop is getting fairly close to unforgivable sin.


20 posted on 07/09/2009 6:12:00 AM PDT by TheZMan ("I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.")
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To: IbJensen

Is she incoherently trying to frame a modernist Pelagian type heresy? After A. Comte, the individual is subordinate to the ‘community’, and so perhaps in her view the attainment of God’s grace can only be obtained by the community and not by individual effort.


21 posted on 07/09/2009 6:12:13 AM PDT by Ozone34 ("There are only two philosophies: Thomism and bullshitism!" -Leon Bloy)
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To: IbJensen; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark

The article said — ANAHEIM, CA - Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori says it’s “heresy” to believe that an individual can be saved through a sinner’s prayer of repentance.

Ummm..., I don’t think someone has been reading their Bible lately... LOL...

The Bible says...

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Romans 10:9-13


22 posted on 07/09/2009 6:14:04 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Jackson57

Any “Christian” organization that puts a person like that in power is corrupt to the core. She’s just a symptom of a much larger problem.


23 posted on 07/09/2009 6:14:59 AM PDT by DB
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To: uptoolate

Great place to post that scripture!


24 posted on 07/09/2009 6:15:15 AM PDT by IbJensen (If Catholics voted based upon the teachings of the church, there would be no abortion and no Obomba.)
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To: sionnsar

How is this to start your morning devotions?


25 posted on 07/09/2009 6:15:24 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: IbJensen
the great Western heresy: that we can be saved as individuals

Socialism in Salvation.

26 posted on 07/09/2009 6:16:57 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: P8riot

You said — In all actuality, it is not the prayer that saves you, it is the substitutionary death of Christ and his resurrection. The prayer just acknowledges what He has already done, but it’s not heresy or idolatry by a longshot.

This is an incomplete answer as it takes both, because *without* the individual confession to it (per Romans 10:9-10), a person is *not* saved, no matter the fact that the substitutionary death of Christ and His resurrection has occurred.

So, no, it’s *not* on the basis of — only — the “substitutionary death of Christ and His resurrection” that one is saved...


27 posted on 07/09/2009 6:19:01 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: IbJensen

“Jefferts Schori answers a Chu question about whether Jesus is the only way to heaven by saying that believing that way would “put God in an awfully small box.”


28 posted on 07/09/2009 6:20:26 AM PDT by beefree (AMERICA BLESS GOD, VOTE PALIN.)
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To: DB

I absolutely agree with you. This Episcopal woman is just another “community organizer” letting her “flock” know that they need to go through her to get their “benefits”. The message seems to be that individuals cannot be saved, but the community as a whole. And in order to do so, the “community organizer” will lead the way.

And, please (not you specifically) before the Catholic bashers start coming out, the Pope did NOT promote socialism in his recent encyclical. The media is spinning and twisting what he said.


29 posted on 07/09/2009 6:20:41 AM PDT by Jackson57
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To: IbJensen
According to Schori, it is heresy to believe that an individual's prayer can achieve a saving relationship with God.

Hmmm...Seemed to work for this guy...

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:40-43

30 posted on 07/09/2009 6:22:52 AM PDT by opus86
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To: uptoolate

hey genius, there are a lot of conscienceless men out there and I a woman will instruct them in court if need be about what their obligations are to the women they impregnated when it was “a good time” and the babies they created. Furthermore, you may stfu it has nothing to with anatomy and everything to do with a godly developed character


31 posted on 07/09/2009 6:23:10 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: Star Traveler; P8riot
You said — In all actuality, it is not the prayer that saves you, it is the substitutionary death of Christ and his resurrection. The prayer just acknowledges what He has already done, but it’s not heresy or idolatry by a longshot.

Emphasizing the need to say the "sinner's prayer" or to put up your hand or come bawling down the aisle at a revival meeting is really nothing more than modern day Pelagianism--a belief that our speech or actions can be the cause of our salvation.

32 posted on 07/09/2009 6:23:19 AM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini.)
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To: lightman; P8riot

As I said, it takes *both*....


This is an incomplete answer as it takes both, because *without* the individual confession to it (per Romans 10:9-10), a person is *not* saved, no matter the fact that the substitutionary death of Christ and His resurrection has occurred.


Post #27...


33 posted on 07/09/2009 6:25:36 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Star Traveler

Group rights vs. individual rights - again.


34 posted on 07/09/2009 6:27:54 AM PDT by reg45 (Be calm everyone. The idiot children are in charge!)
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To: opus86
Oops...Seemed to work for this guy too...

13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." Luke 18:13-14

35 posted on 07/09/2009 6:27:59 AM PDT by opus86
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To: Jackson57

As an Episcopalian of over 40 years standing, I was already hanging by a thread when this joke of a Bishop was elected.

I was already aware of her “Jesus is not the only way to salvation” babblings but this has done it for me.

I will be joining others who have found a true Anglican home.


36 posted on 07/09/2009 6:29:03 AM PDT by wayoverthehill
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To: reg45

Well..., as I see it, the Bible has never framed salvation as an issue between group rights and individual rights. But, perhaps there are “people” who ignore the Bible who may wish to frame the issue in a different way than what the Bible does (and says about it...).


37 posted on 07/09/2009 6:29:47 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Star Traveler

We who are saved are saved from the foundation of the world. Our prayer through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, and the resultant faith to believe allows us to confess this faith to God and before others, acknowledging the provision of His Son. However, if God has determined to save me, and I never acknowledge it through prayer I am still saved, because He has predestined me to be so. Therefore, it is entirely up to God, and not to the individual. Do children who die in infancy, whether by natural causes or otherwise, forfeit their salvation because they cannot pray “the sinner’s prayer”? God effects our salvation. We have absolutely nothing to do with it.


38 posted on 07/09/2009 6:29:47 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: P8riot

Bottom line here... you don’t do what Romans 10:9-10 says — you’re *not saved*...


39 posted on 07/09/2009 6:31:06 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: IbJensen

she’s pretty spooky anti-christ looking in her bish’ robes & miter & staff-— there ya’ go..the fall of western civilization

makes me shibber


40 posted on 07/09/2009 6:32:33 AM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Mac Conchradha - "Skeagh mac en chroe"- Skaghvicencrowe)
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To: rstrahan

Agreed. I was raised as an Episcopalian but after reading the Bible in its entirety (something few Episcopalians do these days), I find it more and more difficult to go to services every week. I think I get a better understanding of my faith listening to podcasts by Mark Driscoll, John Piper, Gary Wilkerson and R.C. Sproul while I’m outside working in the yard and mowing the lawn than during the 10-minute sermon about the Millenium Development Goals at my church. It’s sad how the Episcopal Church has become nothing more than just another vehicle to promote Socialism and various other left wing causes.


41 posted on 07/09/2009 6:32:41 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: IbJensen

Hmmmm. She needs to read the part in the Bible about female bishops/pastors.


42 posted on 07/09/2009 6:35:06 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: TheZMan
"Sounds like this Bishop needs to read the Bible a bit more."

Actually, she needs to take off the pants and the robe, put her apron back on and get back in the kitchen, shut up and do as she's told... as God intended. :-)

There, that's done...

;-/

43 posted on 07/09/2009 6:37:29 AM PDT by Gargantua ("Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people..." John Adams)
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To: opus86

Lordy. The Anglican Church keeps going further and further into la la land. It is very sad to watch that shipwreck.


44 posted on 07/09/2009 6:37:46 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, telling it straight since AD 33)
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To: wayoverthehill

You’re welcome in the Catholic Church ... :-)


45 posted on 07/09/2009 6:39:32 AM PDT by Jackson57
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To: yldstrk
God to bishop you are fired

Literally.

46 posted on 07/09/2009 6:40:07 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: Jackson57
This the same woman (I refuse to call her Bishop) who referred to Tiller as a saint and a martyr. How proud members of the Episcopal Church must be, having this person as head of their church. Almost as proud as they much have been when their gay bishop in NH announced that he’d always wanted to be “June bride”.

No...it was The (Wrong) Rt. Rev. Katherine Ragsdale (but also an Episcopal bishop)

47 posted on 07/09/2009 6:42:48 AM PDT by meandog (Doh!)
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To: blue-duncan
Fear not, bd; this comes from a woman who wears a rainbow oven mitt as a mitre! She and her comic book theology are enough to gag a maggot on a fence post a quarter of a mile away.


48 posted on 07/09/2009 6:43:31 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

“Sounds a lot like the new Dean of the Harvard Divinity School (which is essentially an Episcopalian entity) publicly declaring that abortion is “a blessing””

You’ve got to be joking!


49 posted on 07/09/2009 6:44:10 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: IbJensen

Is this the same female bishop who proclaimed “Abortion is a gift”?

Ooops. Now I remember. That was the newfemale head of the Episcopal Seminary.

Lord, have Mercy!


50 posted on 07/09/2009 6:44:11 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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