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Posted on 07/10/2009 5:01:41 PM PDT by Crazieman
Would Congress ever pass legislation that would allow the executive to determine at its own discretion whether political opponents had crossed the line into domestic terrorists and build camps in which to keep them? Sounds like something out of 20th-century totalitarian systems or dystopian fiction. Mark Tapscott says it’s not fiction , and he warns readers about an effort by Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) to do just that:
Rep. Alcee Hastings - the impeached Florida judge Nancy Pelosi tried to install as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee until her own party members rebelled - introduced an amendment to the defense authorization bill that gives Attorney General Eric Holder sole discretion to label groups that oppose government policy on guns, abortion, immigration, states’ rights, or a host of other issues. In a June 25 speech on the House floor, Rep. Trent Franks, R-AZ, blasted the idea: “This sounds an alarm for many of us because of the recent shocking and offensive report released by the Department of Homeland Security which labeled, arguably, a majority of Americans as ‘extremists.’”
Another Hastings bill (HR 645) authorizes $360 million in 2009 and 2010 to set up “not fewer than six national emergency centers on military installations” capable of housing “a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster.” But Section 2 (b) 4 allows the Secretary of Homeland Security to use the camps “to meet other appropriate needs” - none of which are specified. This is the kind of blank check that Congress should never, ever sign.
It’s not paranoid to be extremely wary of legislation that would give two unelected government officials power to legally declare someone a “domestic terrorist” and send them to a government-run camp.
To be fair on the second point, most legislation includes phrases similar to the “meet other appropriate needs” as a means of allowing flexibility in using facilities commissioned by Congress. Under unforeseen circumstances even apart from creating concentration camps for abortion opponents, the six national emergency centers might need to get some use other than housing military personnel or civilians evacuated from a disaster area. That language allows the Pentagon and Homeland Security leeway to adapt for other issues without having to worry that lawyers will descend upon them like locusts for not strictly limiting use to the statutes.
However, the designation of domestic terrorist groups — a necessary and critical process for keeping the peace — should not fall into the hands of just one person. That process needs oversight and consensus to be credible and fair. Congress should have some involvement, especially in oversight. Holder could be the greatest AG in the history of the US but still should not have the absolute authority to make that designation, especially after the track record of the DHS in using vague parameters and broad-based smears of legitimate political protest earlier this year.
Mark may also want to look at HR 1966 , introduced by Rep. Linda Sanchez last April in reaction to the suburban mother who drove one of her daughter’s acquaintances — a 13-year-old girl — to suicide. Bas cases make bad law, and that’s doubly true here. Look at this language and imagine how this could be used:
Sec. 881. Cyberbullying
‘(a) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Who decides what constitutes “substantial emotional distress”? What is the definition of “severe” and “hostile”? What kinds of persons can claim victimhood under this bill? This purports to be a bill to prevent cyberbullying — which is hardly a crime wave in America anyway — but could easily be perverted to shut down “mean” bloggers .
This Congress has taken a strange and dangerous turn away from the principles of free speech and towards … something else entirely.
Update : Apparently, the Irish are also having trouble with this concept.
Update II : I think I was a little too subtle in my post. I don’t think Hastings is passing a “concentration camp” bill, but just a badly worded piece of pork. Irishspy in the comments sums it up better than I did above:
I read the original text of these bills a few days ago and, while I have strong concerns about the lack of due process in allowing the AG to simply designate someone a dangerous person just because of his beliefs or (IIRC) tattoos, Hastings’ amendment about the regional command centers looks more like a bunch of pork for areas affected by base closures than anything else.
That was my point. The language that Mark points out is pretty much legislative boilerplate, probably meaningless in the sense Mark takes it. I’m much more concerned about the cyberbullying bill and the authority Hastings wants to grant to the AG.
Update II : Radio Vice Online has been looking at the cyberbullying bill, too.
As radio host Jim Quinn and Radio Rose always say about new of this sort:
“The Second Amendment, reset button for the Constitution.”
Ping
-
You know, I will be sad to be locked up but it will be nice to finally meet all of you FReepers.
I’ll make sure and send you care packages from my apartment in Shanghai, China. It appears that there will be greater political freedom in China than what the Democrats want in the US!
Rep. Alcee Hastings -- the impeached Florida judge Nancy Pelosi tried to install as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee until her own party members rebelled -- introduced an amendment to the defense authorization bill that gives Attorney General Eric Holder sole discretion to label groups that oppose government policy on guns, abortion, immigration, states' rights, or a host of other issues. In a June 25 speech on the House floor, Rep. Trent Franks, R-AZ, blasted the idea: "This sounds an alarm for many of us because of the recent shocking and offensive report released by the Department of Homeland Security which labeled, arguably, a majority of Americans as 'extremists.'"
Another Hastings bill (HR 645) authorizes $360 million in 2009 and 2010 to set up "not fewer than six national emergency centers on military installations" capable of housing "a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster." But Section 2 (b) 4 allows the Secretary of Homeland Security to use the camps "to meet other appropriate needs" -- none of which are specified. This is the kind of blank check that Congress should never, ever sign.
The cyberbullying law would be great. Sarah Palin alone have the entire state-run media, most of congress, and all of their staffers put in prison.
If this is the same Linda Chavez who is a Rep from So Calif- she is the one who got lots of illigal voters and ousted B-1 (?) Bomber supporter Bob Dornan.
Her election was a forerunner of the Nov 2008 election of NObama. It was seriously tainted.
If this is the same Linda Chavez who is a Rep from So Calif- she is the one who got lots of illegal voters and ousted B-1 (?) Bomber supporter Bob Dornan.
Her election was a forerunner of the Nov 2008 election of NObama. It was seriously tainted.
So that’s why R’s are afraid of TOTUS.
LOL Just don’t dress me in olive green or bright orange which are none of my colors.
It’s Loretta Sanchez and yes, she is the one who stole the election from B1 under very questionable circumstances. In addition, she changed her anglo married name back to her maiden name of Sanchez in order to garner the Hispanic vote. She used to be my rep before I exiled myself from the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.
LOL! true!
btw, I like chocolate and I’ll share whatever you send.
Conservatives are like that.
In the words of that great poet and philosopher Dennis Green
“They are who we thought they were!”
I’ll make sure and send only the finest Belgian pralines...:)
I’m not sure I’ll care anymore.
I seriously told my DH, let me go and take the kids to TX or OK. They will be safe there.
Can you send some now? (just kidding)
Nope — that was Loretta Sanchez. Linda Chavez was up for a cabinet post under W until certain, um, fiscal irregularities came to light regarding her Guatemalan houseguest-nanny-cook-cleaning-woman.
She changes her name to fit whatever she is doing. She should never have been voted on at all.
Sure you will.
And I presume that Van Oost Chocolates will be acceptable? Note that I'll probably have to wrap them in a copy of "Audacity of Hope" or "Rules for Radicals" or a compilation of Reverend Wright's sermons, but I don't think that will affect the flavor too much...
*drool*
I think you can put them into two ziplock bags and the poo flavor from the books will stay out.
>>Sure you will.<<
I’ll only share with the FReepers.
I’ll sell to the guards.
Morrissey got the last name wrong. It’s Linda Sanchez, Loretta’s sister. (Bad enough to have one in Congress, but with two it’s like double jeopardy.) Not to be confused with Linda Chavez, a Republican.
Glad you would share with the Freepers; but exactly what do you plan to sell the guards? LOL
The good chocolate.
I figure by the time this all comes down, the chocolate will be worth more than any other currency.
Chocolate and cigarettes will be gold in Conservative prison! Even for the guards once stagflation hits.
And adding to that, they are imprisioning all the real workers.
The “Piggies at the trough” economy will not do well without us.
I have a feeling there will be more FReepers with me than with you.
You may well be right. I fear my DH (the former Marine) will be in your vicinity.
I would be proud if he was. I will mot cede my wonderful Country to the Internal Enemies who seek its destruction.
Hope you don’t mind me going ahead and using the CWII list, JB, but this seemed like a no-brainer for a ping.
I’ve read those laws too, and believe they are - as far as the Leftist mindset operates - poorly worded solutions driven by good, if flawed, intentions consistent with the general mindset of some half of this nation. Ergo, I do not believe these are being implemented with malicious intent.
However ... these laws are grossly beyond powers clearly delegated, and limited, by the Constitution. These laws, albeit well-intentioned, are so profoundly broad as to impart downright totalitarian powers to individuals. They are not totally flagrant in their allowance, but are so close to despotic that lawyers will be bickering endlessly about what is permitted while victims of these laws rot in prison or lose all they have. They go too far, by far.
I don’t know how to oppose such reaches toward tyranny. Nothing wrong has been done. These laws will go on the books, and stay there, and be used, until concrete cases with victims of clear standing can organize a legal defense - at which point it will be too late.
Sounds a lot like my books, which are (so far) fiction.
You know, I will be sad to be locked up but it will be nice to finally meet all of you FReepers.
_______________
Indeed, at least we will have something in common to talk about. :P
It won’t be long before the killing starts.
still waiting for domestic terrorism to start showing up, it hasn’t yet. Nothing to the power grid or organized political movement, heck I haven’t even seen spray paint on over passes that would indicate anything wrong. The tea parties are a failure if they don’t move one man to action.
When Travis McGees books cease to be fiction!
Yeah it's starting to look that way.
Not for long man.
True, but a few years ago, I’d have told you that something like McCain-Feingold is nothing but fiction. I’d have told you that our electing an unreconstructed Marxist President is nothing but fiction.
Only it’s not.
Do a little research about “Progressive” Woodrow Wilson an his political prisoners. This is nothing new.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p09s01-coop.htm
Ohhhhhhh, snap!!!
;-)
Snap is right. This man is blaming the wrong people who put him in jail. It wasn’t the public; it was him. Now we are seeing some crazies in Congress.
“True, but a few years ago, I’d have told you that something like McCain-Feingold is nothing but fiction. I’d have told you that our electing an unreconstructed Marxist President is nothing but fiction.
Only it’s not.”
I would gladly swap Zelaya for Obama......less Marxist baggage.
mark
I know that they will come for me someday ...
>You know, I will be sad to be locked up but it will be nice to finally meet all of you FReepers.<
i’ll be there don’t worry .. just keep shouting “Munz”
I’ll come running with a smile on my face, will be nice to meet you people finally and have FRiends around.
We are gonna be there a long time I think.
Yeah, right. The earthquake might be in an entirely different zone.
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